Fuel Lines

steve whitenect · Post by **steve whitenect** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Me too Jean
Don't plan to cross vent the tanks either. I used alum lines all the way
and even went to 1/2" lines after the square cabin tubes.

Steve W. #637

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

No...because there isn't enough flow...it's pretty much 99.9% static
pressure. Ideally a inverted J shaped tube is the way to go so the water
won't climb the slope...but haven't seen it as an issue even with straight
(L) tubes.

----- Original Message -----
From: <NormIsler@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 12:22 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

Just to ask a "fuelish" question...

Wouldn't a forward facing "ram" vent also admit water to the fuel tank

when

flying in rain?

Am I missing something obvious?

Thanks

Norm Isler
Elite 702E

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Hi Mike !

Most builders do run aluminum lines from the tanks to the gascolator.
It takes a bit of effort with bending, but there's nothing wrong with
fuel hose rubber piping & clamps to join sections, and connect up the
tanks to the cabin - AS LONG AS YOU CAN GET AT IT EASILY to replace it !!
Depending on your routing, you might want drains on the fuselage bottom,
about the door posts, as this can be a low point in the system.

I WOULD run a cross vent line between tanks - prefer clear plastic
for this one, as there can be some flex across there. 99 % of the time,
there's only AIR in the line anyway.... I WOULD put "J"
tube vents (or at least ONE) IN THE wing root FAIRINGS, in this vent
line. I would NOT put the "J" tube over the cockpit area - just dumb !
I have "L" tubes on my fuel caps - this is a PAIN, and dangerous !
Just a matter of time until some gas jockey snaps them off or puts
the cap on backwards & you lose all your fuel ! And Jean - don't
WELD them on - they'll crack even sooner !! If you must have them,
use a coupling with nuts, washers, and a lot of Pro-Seal ....
then they'll at least have some flex. This is a good way to mount
the J tunes on the wing root fairing strip too ...

As for the sight guages - use clear plastic fuel line ! You
definitely do NOT want anything rigid that can crack or shatter !!
DO add a small fuel valve 1/4" or smaller (like used on the Renegade),
at the bottom of the sight guage - that way, you can turn it off if
there's ever a leak, OR you want to replace the sight guage tube
(about every 2 or 3 years .... bad gas discolours it !)

Just MHO ;-) Hope it helps ! :-)

.......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Sunday 12 February 2006 07:13 pm, Mike Betti wrote:

Hi builders,
Looking at the fuel system. I don't care for the use of plastic type
lines and fittings the manual calls for. Has anyone used all aluminum
tubing and fittings to accomplish this? How about a better site glass,
like maybe real glass mounted in some sort of aluminum frame? Has anyone
used a bottom sump, where the two tanks drain to the sump and the engine
takes it's fuel from it? Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

I use 3/8" aluminum throughout, except for about 3" rubber to connect the
tanks to the fus. Also have Wicks valves, which mount nicely to a plate
above the door. Also couldn't find a real good location for their
gascolator bracket, so scrapped that and replace it with ACS' circular
flange. Have a low point drain behind the cabin. Vents are brake line
welded into the caps. Replaced the site glasses with Princeton capacitive
probes. Have a fuel flow sensor down near the pilot's left foot (be sure to
get the one for gravity feed). Other than that, it's pretty well stock!
Pics available if interested.

Al Hepburn

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

The only rubber line on my Rebel is the Stratoflex from the Gascolator to
the carb. Everything else is 3/8 alum right from both the tanks, down the
rear door posts, dual quick drains in the low spot three point in the belly,
dual valves in the floor and a single line from there thru the carrythru up
the middle to the gascolator. Float senders in the tanks with no issues for
11 years. I dip tanks before all flights and know how many hours fuel I
have, and I'm always on the side of caution. Howard's is identical, except
his senders are capacitance. I did learn while flying FOKM though that the
site gauges are really nice for quick fuel checks before flight and when you
are concerned of overload and can quickly fill while someone watches the
gauge.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

I use 3/8" aluminum throughout, except for about 3" rubber to connect the
tanks to the fus. Also have Wicks valves, which mount nicely to a plate
above the door. Also couldn't find a real good location for their
gascolator bracket, so scrapped that and replace it with ACS' circular
flange. Have a low point drain behind the cabin. Vents are brake line
welded into the caps. Replaced the site glasses with Princeton capacitive
probes. Have a fuel flow sensor down near the pilot's left foot (be sure

to

get the one for gravity feed). Other than that, it's pretty well stock!
Pics available if interested.

Al Hepburn

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Wayne,
Where are your 2 fuel valves located in the floor? Do you have a quick drain
on both sides before the valves?
Thanks to all for the input on this subject.
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

The only rubber line on my Rebel is the Stratoflex from the Gascolator to
the carb. Everything else is 3/8 alum right from both the tanks, down the
rear door posts, dual quick drains in the low spot three point in the
belly,
dual valves in the floor and a single line from there thru the carrythru
up
the middle to the gascolator. Float senders in the tanks with no issues
for
11 years. I dip tanks before all flights and know how many hours fuel I
have, and I'm always on the side of caution. Howard's is identical, except
his senders are capacitance. I did learn while flying FOKM though that the
site gauges are really nice for quick fuel checks before flight and when
you
are concerned of overload and can quickly fill while someone watches the
gauge.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

I use 3/8" aluminum throughout, except for about 3" rubber to connect the
tanks to the fus. Also have Wicks valves, which mount nicely to a plate
above the door. Also couldn't find a real good location for their
gascolator bracket, so scrapped that and replace it with ACS' circular
flange. Have a low point drain behind the cabin. Vents are brake line
welded into the caps. Replaced the site glasses with Princeton
capacitive
probes. Have a fuel flow sensor down near the pilot's left foot (be sure
to
get the one for gravity feed). Other than that, it's pretty well stock!
Pics available if interested.

Al Hepburn

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Yes Mike...right where I wrote "dual quick drains in the low spot three
point in the belly."

Valves are between the seats..maybe a foot back from the carrythru.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

Wayne,
Where are your 2 fuel valves located in the floor? Do you have a quick

drain

on both sides before the valves?
Thanks to all for the input on this subject.
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

The only rubber line on my Rebel is the Stratoflex from the Gascolator

to

the carb. Everything else is 3/8 alum right from both the tanks, down

the

rear door posts, dual quick drains in the low spot three point in the
belly,
dual valves in the floor and a single line from there thru the carrythru
up
the middle to the gascolator. Float senders in the tanks with no issues
for
11 years. I dip tanks before all flights and know how many hours fuel I
have, and I'm always on the side of caution. Howard's is identical,

except

his senders are capacitance. I did learn while flying FOKM though that

the

site gauges are really nice for quick fuel checks before flight and when
you
are concerned of overload and can quickly fill while someone watches the
gauge.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

I use 3/8" aluminum throughout, except for about 3" rubber to connect

the

tanks to the fus. Also have Wicks valves, which mount nicely to a

plate

above the door. Also couldn't find a real good location for their
gascolator bracket, so scrapped that and replace it with ACS' circular
flange. Have a low point drain behind the cabin. Vents are brake line
welded into the caps. Replaced the site glasses with Princeton
capacitive
probes. Have a fuel flow sensor down near the pilot's left foot (be

sure

to
get the one for gravity feed). Other than that, it's pretty well

stock!

Pics available if interested.

Al Hepburn

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Jesse Jenks · Post by **Jesse Jenks** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Check out MSC and McMaster Carr. They sell industrial sight gauges. I saw
some used in a Bearhawk that looked nice. Kind of pricey and probably heavy
though.
Jesse

From: lawsondj@comcast.net
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Fuel lines
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 17:11:35 +0000

Hi All,

If you find some reasonable sight tube gauges, let me know too.

Thanks,
Jack, SR193

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Bob Andrews" <robert@montanasky.us>

Hi Mike,

I agree ... don't like the plastic tubes used inside the fuselage to
vent
the two wing tanks. I plan to hard line the cross vent plumbing, and
find
some rigid transparent sight tubes to use for the two fuel qty
indicators.
Bob, 612e

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
mbetti@up.net
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:28 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

Thanks Drew,
Do you have any pics of your vent fitting arrangement or a description
or
fittings used? I'll look in wag areo tonight. Hydraulic tanks is where I
guess I got the idea.
Mike

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 22:06:02 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:
At 06:13 PM 2/12/2006 -0600, you wrote:
lines
and fittings the manual calls for. Has anyone used all aluminum tubing
and
fittings to accomplish this? How about a better site glass, like maybe
real
glass mounted in some sort of aluminum frame? Has anyone used a bottom
sump, where the two tanks drain to the sump and the engine takes it's
fuel
from it? Hi Mike I've changed most of my cross-vent system and fuel guage
fittings
to aluminum. If I were to do it again I'd use all aluminum for the fuel
feed as well. I don't really like having a rubber hose buried under a
corner wrap where I can't get at it. I don't see any advantage to
having a
bottom sump. In a gravity feed system you'd just end up with a whole
bunch
more unusable fuel wouldn't you? I think Wag Areo sells a glass sight
guage
like you describe. We have lots of them on hydraulic tanks at my work.
My
experience is that the glass gets discoloured over time and it gets
very
hard to read the guage. It's not hard to change the plastic sight guage
every year or so. Just fly to low fuel then with the valves open jack
up
one side of the plane. Go have a coffee and when you get back all the
fuel
will have drained into the low wing. change that line jack up the other
side and repeat.
Drew

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

Ok thanks Wayne.
Thanks for the sight gauge lead Jesse.
Mike Betti
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

Yes Mike...right where I wrote "dual quick drains in the low spot three
point in the belly."

Valves are between the seats..maybe a foot back from the carrythru.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

Wayne,
Where are your 2 fuel valves located in the floor? Do you have a quick
drain
on both sides before the valves?
Thanks to all for the input on this subject.
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

The only rubber line on my Rebel is the Stratoflex from the Gascolator
to
the carb. Everything else is 3/8 alum right from both the tanks, down
the
rear door posts, dual quick drains in the low spot three point in the
belly,
dual valves in the floor and a single line from there thru the
carrythru
up
the middle to the gascolator. Float senders in the tanks with no issues
for
11 years. I dip tanks before all flights and know how many hours fuel I
have, and I'm always on the side of caution. Howard's is identical,
except
his senders are capacitance. I did learn while flying FOKM though that
the
site gauges are really nice for quick fuel checks before flight and
when
you
are concerned of overload and can quickly fill while someone watches
the
gauge.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Fuel lines

the
plate
sure
to
stock!

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

At 11:46 AM 2/13/2006 -0500, you wrote:

My two cents....

I have see and I plan to weld a bent tube on the gas caps to vent and
"pressurise" the gas tanks. Your pro/con about that way of venting?

Jean
Rebel 747R

It seems that lots of planes are using that method successfully so it
should work on a rebel. You'll have 2 separate vents so if one gets plugged
the other will still work plus it would be easy to check for blockages by
blowing through the tube while fueling up.
Drew

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:22 am

I used 3/8" od. teflon tubing (clear FEP I believe) for the sight
guages. Not as flexible as urethane but it won't degrade or shatter and
it is easy to cut to any desired length. Probably wasn't worth the
trouble although I did learn a bit about teflon ;)

I found the fuel plumbing to be seriously constrained by fitting choice.
Don't commit to a routing or material until you have fittings that will
do the job. For example it is difficult to come straight in from the
wing to the fuselage with a 90 degree turn to a fuel valve with
aluminum. You can't put a flare on a really short piece of aluminum
tubing as you must assemble the fittings before you make the second
flare. Bending short pieces can be interesting and similar constraints
come up - do you have enough length to slip on the end fittings and
still bend it and/or clamp it in a flaring tool? Waynes's idea of
routing the fuel aft of the rear wing attachments before coming into the
fuselage may be worth considering. I don't believe there is anything
wrong with judicious use of "rubber" hose in exposed locations or for
couplings. Properly installed it can allow for a fair bit of bent
airframe before it ruptures in an accident. It is slightly heavier but
easy to install, cheap, and readilly available as an SAE 30R7 automotive
product (Use 30R9 for EFI). I did not investigate the use of 100LL with
that hose as I plan to avoid 100LL. It is quite easy to make a beading
tool for 3/8 aluminum tubing.

Ken

Jesse Jenks wrote:

Check out MSC and McMaster Carr. They sell industrial sight gauges. I saw
some used in a Bearhawk that looked nice. Kind of pricey and probably heavy
though.
Jesse

snip

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:03 am

Hi all,
I recently read a comment by Wayne about cheating and running the fuel lines above the door and down the forward door post. This is what I did and I really like the way it came out. Has any one had any experience with this not working out well in a gravity system?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:04 am

Our Elite has the 8:00 tires and the Moose tailwheel. Fuel line not yet run but it will go to rear and down behind the door, then forward just below door sill to front. We looked at avoiding a low point sump at the rear of the door and could not see how it can be done without a sump. We will put a sump in every low point. May not be necessary but I will not take the chance.We get too much condensation here in South Carolina. An additional concern is the oncoming possibility of alchohol in the mogas and the potential water problems that brings.
Rallph Baker

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David L. Tuck · Post by **David L. Tuck** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:29 pm

Does it matter if I use what is called versatube? for fuel line in the rebel? or do I use the 5052 3/8's ridged?

Dave T

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