How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
Ron
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Rebel spring gear weight
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Bruce Georgen
Rebel spring gear weight
I think the spring gear added 28 lbs. ? Not worth it in my opinion. Spring gear has its own issues with rough field work. There are several SB and other MODS for the spring gear you need to incorporate if you go that route. It looks better than the bungee but that's about it. Wayne's strut gear or similar is the best.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
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Bruce
-----Original Message-----
________________________________________From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Sent: Jan 17, 2006 7:23 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel spring gear weight
How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
Ron
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Rebel spring gear weight
I'll weigh two legs I have under the table tomorrow if I remember and get
back to you. The cage reinforcements/stack plates weight as much (if not
more) as the gear legs for the bungee system...so the increase in weight is
the difference between the legs/saddles weight and my compression spring
strut weight. Probably 18 lbs or so...I'll let you know
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
other MODS for the spring gear you need to incorporate if you go that route.
It looks better than the bungee but that's about it. Wayne's strut gear or
similar is the best.
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back to you. The cage reinforcements/stack plates weight as much (if not
more) as the gear legs for the bungee system...so the increase in weight is
the difference between the legs/saddles weight and my compression spring
strut weight. Probably 18 lbs or so...I'll let you know
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
gear has its own issues with rough field work. There are several SB andI think the spring gear added 28 lbs. ? Not worth it in my opinion. Spring
other MODS for the spring gear you need to incorporate if you go that route.
It looks better than the bungee but that's about it. Wayne's strut gear or
similar is the best.
Bruce
-----Original Message-----________________________________________From: Ron Shannon <rshannon@cruzcom.com>
Sent: Jan 17, 2006 7:23 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel spring gear weight
How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
Ron
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Ron Shannon
Rebel spring gear weight
Thanks Bruce & Wayne. I have scoured the archives on this and am aware
of the functional/structural issues between the two gear designs. Just
wasn't clear on the magnitude of the weight issue.
Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
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of the functional/structural issues between the two gear designs. Just
wasn't clear on the magnitude of the weight issue.
Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
I'll weigh two legs I have under the table tomorrow if I remember and get
back to you. The cage reinforcements/stack plates weight as much (if not
more) as the gear legs for the bungee system...so the increase in weight is
the difference between the legs/saddles weight and my compression spring
strut weight. Probably 18 lbs or so...I'll let you know
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
gear has its own issues with rough field work. There are several SB andI think the spring gear added 28 lbs. ? Not worth it in my opinion. Spring
other MODS for the spring gear you need to incorporate if you go that route.
It looks better than the bungee but that's about it. Wayne's strut gear or
similar is the best.
Bruce
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Bob Patterson
Rebel spring gear weight
Hi Ron !
Somewhere in the archives, several people reported the actual weights
of their gear components and finished airframes - I believe the spring
gear Rebels weighed between 28 and 40 lb. more than the bungee gear Rebels.
A large part of this weight remains when you go to floats, as it is
made up of extra plates to strengthen the floor and cross tubes -
all of the bungee gear comes off....
......bobp
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 17 January 2006 10:05 pm, Ron Shannon wrote:
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Somewhere in the archives, several people reported the actual weights
of their gear components and finished airframes - I believe the spring
gear Rebels weighed between 28 and 40 lb. more than the bungee gear Rebels.
A large part of this weight remains when you go to floats, as it is
made up of extra plates to strengthen the floor and cross tubes -
all of the bungee gear comes off....
......bobp
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 17 January 2006 10:05 pm, Ron Shannon wrote:
getThanks Bruce & Wayne. I have scoured the archives on this and am aware
of the functional/structural issues between the two gear designs. Just
wasn't clear on the magnitude of the weight issue.
Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:I'll weigh two legs I have under the table tomorrow if I remember and
isback to you. The cage reinforcements/stack plates weight as much (if not
more) as the gear legs for the bungee system...so the increase in weight
Springthe difference between the legs/saddles weight and my compression spring
strut weight. Probably 18 lbs or so...I'll let you know
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Georgen" <bgeorgen@peoplepc.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
I think the spring gear added 28 lbs. ? Not worth it in my opinion.
route.gear has its own issues with rough field work. There are several SB and
other MODS for the spring gear you need to incorporate if you go that
orIt looks better than the bungee but that's about it. Wayne's strut gear
similar is the best.
Bruce
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John Kramer
Rebel spring gear weight
Ron,
Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
&c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
more than significant.
The fancier wheels and brakes certainly were nicer and the spring
gear prettier to my eye, each piece was considerably heavier than the
original equivalents. Once I get her standing I'm planning on
Wayne's spring mod, I've already ordered Fife tips, but doubt my
weight limitations will allow for Angus' cuff's. If I was building
to full gross with a fat motor I'd have them for sure. I'm very
carefully picking through the Ontario Mods as I can't afford them
all, for a light plane some seem more important than others.
I was fortunate that Robin agreed to accept the return. I get the
feeling that doesn't often happen.
I have learned to first search the archive, then ask, then listen to
Wayne, Bob, Walt and the others who give so freely of their
considerable knowledge. Without this resource I'm certain far fewer
Rebels would ever fly.
John...369R
At 06:23 PM 01/17/06, you wrote:
Fly too low or too slow and the ground will rise up and smite thee.
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Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
&c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
more than significant.
The fancier wheels and brakes certainly were nicer and the spring
gear prettier to my eye, each piece was considerably heavier than the
original equivalents. Once I get her standing I'm planning on
Wayne's spring mod, I've already ordered Fife tips, but doubt my
weight limitations will allow for Angus' cuff's. If I was building
to full gross with a fat motor I'd have them for sure. I'm very
carefully picking through the Ontario Mods as I can't afford them
all, for a light plane some seem more important than others.
I was fortunate that Robin agreed to accept the return. I get the
feeling that doesn't often happen.
I have learned to first search the archive, then ask, then listen to
Wayne, Bob, Walt and the others who give so freely of their
considerable knowledge. Without this resource I'm certain far fewer
Rebels would ever fly.
John...369R
At 06:23 PM 01/17/06, you wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
Ron
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Fly too low or too slow and the ground will rise up and smite thee.
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Mike Davis
Rebel spring gear weight
So how's that compression spring gear for Moose coming Wayne? I figure I'll
be ready for a set in about 3 years.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
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be ready for a set in about 3 years.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
I'll weigh two legs I have under the table tomorrow if I remember and get
back to you. The cage reinforcements/stack plates weight as much (if not
more) as the gear legs for the bungee system...so the increase in weight
is
the difference between the legs/saddles weight and my compression spring
strut weight. Probably 18 lbs or so...I'll let you know
Wayne
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Ron Shannon
Rebel spring gear weight
Thanks, John for the clear specifics on the numbers. Before posting this
query, I did read a lot about the gear issues in the mail archive, but
hadn't found any numbers. I also searched "spring gear weight" and
"spring gear heavy" neither of which yielded any numbers. Anyway, I'm
glad you ended up with what you need. I too am interested in a
lightweight configuration and look forward to following your progress.
For quite awhile now, I've been reading everything I can, including very
helpful back channel (direct) email from several folks on the list --
and doing my part to keep Mike's server warm up there in Alaska with
archive searches. :-)
John Kramer wrote:
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query, I did read a lot about the gear issues in the mail archive, but
hadn't found any numbers. I also searched "spring gear weight" and
"spring gear heavy" neither of which yielded any numbers. Anyway, I'm
glad you ended up with what you need. I too am interested in a
lightweight configuration and look forward to following your progress.
For quite awhile now, I've been reading everything I can, including very
helpful back channel (direct) email from several folks on the list --
and doing my part to keep Mike's server warm up there in Alaska with
archive searches. :-)
John Kramer wrote:
Ron,
Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
&c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
more than significant.
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Rebel spring gear weight
Got a number of ideas rolling in my head. Not sure where it will end up or
if I even get back on the SR/Moose in time for you though!
Shop's overbooked 'till summer (winter if I don't start spending 14 to
16hrs/day out there) and I wanted to be back up to the lake by mid May!
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
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if I even get back on the SR/Moose in time for you though!
Shop's overbooked 'till summer (winter if I don't start spending 14 to
16hrs/day out there) and I wanted to be back up to the lake by mid May!
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
I'llSo how's that compression spring gear for Moose coming Wayne? I figure
getbe ready for a set in about 3 years.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
I'll weigh two legs I have under the table tomorrow if I remember and
back to you. The cage reinforcements/stack plates weight as much (if not
more) as the gear legs for the bungee system...so the increase in weight
is
the difference between the legs/saddles weight and my compression spring
strut weight. Probably 18 lbs or so...I'll let you know
Wayne
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Mike Davis
Rebel spring gear weight
So would 5 years be better? ;-)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
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Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
Got a number of ideas rolling in my head. Not sure where it will end up or
if I even get back on the SR/Moose in time for you though!
Shop's overbooked 'till summer (winter if I don't start spending 14 to
16hrs/day out there) and I wanted to be back up to the lake by mid May!
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
I'llSo how's that compression spring gear for Moose coming Wayne? I figurebe ready for a set in about 3 years.
Mike
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Rebel spring gear weight
Probably...take you time Mike! LOL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
orSo would 5 years be better? ;-)
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
Got a number of ideas rolling in my head. Not sure where it will end up
if I even get back on the SR/Moose in time for you though!
Shop's overbooked 'till summer (winter if I don't start spending 14 to
16hrs/day out there) and I wanted to be back up to the lake by mid May!
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
I'llSo how's that compression spring gear for Moose coming Wayne? I figurebe ready for a set in about 3 years.
Mike
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pequeajim
Rebel spring gear weight
My problem is that I bought an aircrat with the spring gear already attached,
brakes tubed and setup. I don't know how practical it would be for me to try
to change.
Would I have stayed with the bungie gear if I was building from scratch?
Probably and would then have gone with Wayne's setup with it.
Jim!
On 1/17/2006 9:00 PM, rshannon@cruzcom.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> Thanks, John for the clear specifics on the numbers. Before posting this
-> query, I did read a lot about the gear issues in the mail archive, but
-> hadn't found any numbers. I also searched "spring gear weight" and
-> "spring gear heavy" neither of which yielded any numbers. Anyway, I'm
-> glad you ended up with what you need. I too am interested in a
-> lightweight configuration and look forward to following your progress.
->
-> For quite awhile now, I've been reading everything I can, including very
-> helpful back channel (direct) email from several folks on the list --
-> and doing my part to keep Mike's server warm up there in Alaska with
-> archive searches. :-)
->
->
-> John Kramer wrote:
-> > Ron,
-> >
-> > Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
-> > questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
-> > convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
-> > that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
-> > trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
-> > the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
-> > &c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
-> > kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
-> > weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
-> > more than significant.
->
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brakes tubed and setup. I don't know how practical it would be for me to try
to change.
Would I have stayed with the bungie gear if I was building from scratch?
Probably and would then have gone with Wayne's setup with it.
Jim!
On 1/17/2006 9:00 PM, rshannon@cruzcom.com wrote to rebel-builders:
-> Thanks, John for the clear specifics on the numbers. Before posting this
-> query, I did read a lot about the gear issues in the mail archive, but
-> hadn't found any numbers. I also searched "spring gear weight" and
-> "spring gear heavy" neither of which yielded any numbers. Anyway, I'm
-> glad you ended up with what you need. I too am interested in a
-> lightweight configuration and look forward to following your progress.
->
-> For quite awhile now, I've been reading everything I can, including very
-> helpful back channel (direct) email from several folks on the list --
-> and doing my part to keep Mike's server warm up there in Alaska with
-> archive searches. :-)
->
->
-> John Kramer wrote:
-> > Ron,
-> >
-> > Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
-> > questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
-> > convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
-> > that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
-> > trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
-> > the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
-> > &c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
-> > kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
-> > weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
-> > more than significant.
->
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Bob Patterson
Rebel spring gear weight
Hi John !
Thanks for the kind words - and the numbers ! Now we have a
definite number - 35 lb. just for component difference....
should make the choice clear for anyone wanting to fit ELSA !
The McKenzie STOL kit, cuffs & fences only added about 13 lb.
total - it does help low-speed performance. The current Fife
wing tips have a setup for lightweight landing lights - IF you
want them for improved visibility. Otherwise, just go with
the nav/strobe combos - I saw the GS-air LED units at Sebring -
very impressive, and only $327 USD for complete package !
https://ssl.perfora.net/gs-air.com/sess ... shopscript
or:
http://www.gs-air.com
Let us know which mods you are considering skipping - depending
on engine choice, most are essential ! Definitely need the FUS-30
doubler, and I would recommend Wayne's firewall plates, even if you
choose a 912 - the Rebel needs that extra weight up front ! Also,
that 1 1/2" or 2" channel along the full width of the bottom of
the instrument panel will strengthen the whole structure, and help
prevent throttle variations/fluctuation when taxiing on rough ground.
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 17 January 2006 11:11 pm, John Kramer wrote:
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Thanks for the kind words - and the numbers ! Now we have a
definite number - 35 lb. just for component difference....
should make the choice clear for anyone wanting to fit ELSA !
The McKenzie STOL kit, cuffs & fences only added about 13 lb.
total - it does help low-speed performance. The current Fife
wing tips have a setup for lightweight landing lights - IF you
want them for improved visibility. Otherwise, just go with
the nav/strobe combos - I saw the GS-air LED units at Sebring -
very impressive, and only $327 USD for complete package !
https://ssl.perfora.net/gs-air.com/sess ... shopscript
or:
http://www.gs-air.com
Let us know which mods you are considering skipping - depending
on engine choice, most are essential ! Definitely need the FUS-30
doubler, and I would recommend Wayne's firewall plates, even if you
choose a 912 - the Rebel needs that extra weight up front ! Also,
that 1 1/2" or 2" channel along the full width of the bottom of
the instrument panel will strengthen the whole structure, and help
prevent throttle variations/fluctuation when taxiing on rough ground.
.....bobp
-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Tuesday 17 January 2006 11:11 pm, John Kramer wrote:
Ron,
Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
&c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
more than significant.
The fancier wheels and brakes certainly were nicer and the spring
gear prettier to my eye, each piece was considerably heavier than the
original equivalents. Once I get her standing I'm planning on
Wayne's spring mod, I've already ordered Fife tips, but doubt my
weight limitations will allow for Angus' cuff's. If I was building
to full gross with a fat motor I'd have them for sure. I'm very
carefully picking through the Ontario Mods as I can't afford them
all, for a light plane some seem more important than others.
I was fortunate that Robin agreed to accept the return. I get the
feeling that doesn't often happen.
I have learned to first search the archive, then ask, then listen to
Wayne, Bob, Walt and the others who give so freely of their
considerable knowledge. Without this resource I'm certain far fewer
Rebels would ever fly.
John...369R
At 06:23 PM 01/17/06, you wrote:How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
Ron
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jimsrebel
Rebel spring gear weight
Here is an old post regarding spring gear weight.
More info at post# 15699-15717
From: "WAYNE G. O'SHEA" <OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA> Number: 15717 Private:
No
To: ALL Reference: None Reads: 36
Date: 2/27/2004 12:40 PM Received: No Exported
Subject: Re: Spring gear leg wieght
Conference: Rebel Builders
Well this weeks wakes and funeral are out of the way, so I've had a bit of
time to add to this today.
Weighed a set of aluminum gear legs (main/drag brace/joiner gusset
etc-everything but axle and wheel assembly) and bungee struts/safety cable
and bungee loops with bracing and cover of .025 = 14lbs
Same gear legs but with my 6" die spring struts instead = 20lbs
Pair of leaf gear legs with outboard saddle brackets = 20lbs
Therefore there would be no net difference between the "piper style" gear
legs using my die spring struts and the "leaf" leg gear when it comes to
installing the floats, other than maybe the minimal weight of the bolt on
float brackets for strut pickup at the fuselage if you have the leaf gear.
The overall empty weight of the aircraft is another thing due to the plate
doublers in the fuselage construction, but even that isn't extreme since it
amounts to the weight of about a 2.5' x 4' piece of .063 6061 T6 and three
or four hundred RV1613/9 rivets....nothing else!
Cheers,
Wayne
On 1/18/2006 10:35 AM, beep@sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
->
-> Hi John !
->
-> Thanks for the kind words - and the numbers ! Now we have a
-> definite number - 35 lb. just for component difference....
-> should make the choice clear for anyone wanting to fit ELSA !
->
-> The McKenzie STOL kit, cuffs & fences only added about 13 lb.
-> total - it does help low-speed performance. The current Fife
-> wing tips have a setup for lightweight landing lights - IF you
-> want them for improved visibility. Otherwise, just go with
-> the nav/strobe combos - I saw the GS-air LED units at Sebring -
-> very impressive, and only $327 USD for complete package !
-> https://ssl.perfora.net/gs-
air.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=1543b2bd350d65c/shopdata/index.shopscript
-> or:
-> http://www.gs-air.com
->
-> Let us know which mods you are considering skipping - depending
-> on engine choice, most are essential ! Definitely need the FUS-30
-> doubler, and I would recommend Wayne's firewall plates, even if you
-> choose a 912 - the Rebel needs that extra weight up front ! Also,
-> that 1 1/2" or 2" channel along the full width of the bottom of
-> the instrument panel will strengthen the whole structure, and help
-> prevent throttle variations/fluctuation when taxiing on rough ground.
->
-> .....bobp
->
-> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> On Tuesday 17 January 2006 11:11 pm, John Kramer wrote:
-> > Ron,
-> >
-> > Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
-> > questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
-> > convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
-> > that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
-> > trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
-> > the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
-> > &c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
-> > kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
-> > weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
-> > more than significant.
-> >
-> > The fancier wheels and brakes certainly were nicer and the spring
-> > gear prettier to my eye, each piece was considerably heavier than the
-> > original equivalents. Once I get her standing I'm planning on
-> > Wayne's spring mod, I've already ordered Fife tips, but doubt my
-> > weight limitations will allow for Angus' cuff's. If I was building
-> > to full gross with a fat motor I'd have them for sure. I'm very
-> > carefully picking through the Ontario Mods as I can't afford them
-> > all, for a light plane some seem more important than others.
-> >
-> > I was fortunate that Robin agreed to accept the return. I get the
-> > feeling that doesn't often happen.
-> >
-> > I have learned to first search the archive, then ask, then listen to
-> > Wayne, Bob, Walt and the others who give so freely of their
-> > considerable knowledge. Without this resource I'm certain far fewer
-> > Rebels would ever fly.
-> >
-> > John...369R
-> >
-> > At 06:23 PM 01/17/06, you wrote:
-> > >How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
-> > >
-> > >Ron
-> > >
-> > >
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More info at post# 15699-15717
From: "WAYNE G. O'SHEA" <OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA> Number: 15717 Private:
No
To: ALL Reference: None Reads: 36
Date: 2/27/2004 12:40 PM Received: No Exported
Subject: Re: Spring gear leg wieght
Conference: Rebel Builders
Well this weeks wakes and funeral are out of the way, so I've had a bit of
time to add to this today.
Weighed a set of aluminum gear legs (main/drag brace/joiner gusset
etc-everything but axle and wheel assembly) and bungee struts/safety cable
and bungee loops with bracing and cover of .025 = 14lbs
Same gear legs but with my 6" die spring struts instead = 20lbs
Pair of leaf gear legs with outboard saddle brackets = 20lbs
Therefore there would be no net difference between the "piper style" gear
legs using my die spring struts and the "leaf" leg gear when it comes to
installing the floats, other than maybe the minimal weight of the bolt on
float brackets for strut pickup at the fuselage if you have the leaf gear.
The overall empty weight of the aircraft is another thing due to the plate
doublers in the fuselage construction, but even that isn't extreme since it
amounts to the weight of about a 2.5' x 4' piece of .063 6061 T6 and three
or four hundred RV1613/9 rivets....nothing else!
Cheers,
Wayne
On 1/18/2006 10:35 AM, beep@sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
->
-> Hi John !
->
-> Thanks for the kind words - and the numbers ! Now we have a
-> definite number - 35 lb. just for component difference....
-> should make the choice clear for anyone wanting to fit ELSA !
->
-> The McKenzie STOL kit, cuffs & fences only added about 13 lb.
-> total - it does help low-speed performance. The current Fife
-> wing tips have a setup for lightweight landing lights - IF you
-> want them for improved visibility. Otherwise, just go with
-> the nav/strobe combos - I saw the GS-air LED units at Sebring -
-> very impressive, and only $327 USD for complete package !
-> https://ssl.perfora.net/gs-
air.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=1543b2bd350d65c/shopdata/index.shopscript
-> or:
-> http://www.gs-air.com
->
-> Let us know which mods you are considering skipping - depending
-> on engine choice, most are essential ! Definitely need the FUS-30
-> doubler, and I would recommend Wayne's firewall plates, even if you
-> choose a 912 - the Rebel needs that extra weight up front ! Also,
-> that 1 1/2" or 2" channel along the full width of the bottom of
-> the instrument panel will strengthen the whole structure, and help
-> prevent throttle variations/fluctuation when taxiing on rough ground.
->
-> .....bobp
->
-> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> On Tuesday 17 January 2006 11:11 pm, John Kramer wrote:
-> > Ron,
-> >
-> > Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
-> > questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
-> > convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
-> > that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
-> > trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
-> > the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
-> > &c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
-> > kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
-> > weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
-> > more than significant.
-> >
-> > The fancier wheels and brakes certainly were nicer and the spring
-> > gear prettier to my eye, each piece was considerably heavier than the
-> > original equivalents. Once I get her standing I'm planning on
-> > Wayne's spring mod, I've already ordered Fife tips, but doubt my
-> > weight limitations will allow for Angus' cuff's. If I was building
-> > to full gross with a fat motor I'd have them for sure. I'm very
-> > carefully picking through the Ontario Mods as I can't afford them
-> > all, for a light plane some seem more important than others.
-> >
-> > I was fortunate that Robin agreed to accept the return. I get the
-> > feeling that doesn't often happen.
-> >
-> > I have learned to first search the archive, then ask, then listen to
-> > Wayne, Bob, Walt and the others who give so freely of their
-> > considerable knowledge. Without this resource I'm certain far fewer
-> > Rebels would ever fly.
-> >
-> > John...369R
-> >
-> > At 06:23 PM 01/17/06, you wrote:
-> > >How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
-> > >
-> > >Ron
-> > >
-> > >
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Rebel spring gear weight
So on top of the inital 6 lbs difference between MAM supplied bungee and the
spring gear..... a few pounds in plates/rivets/bolts and solid blocks for
the tubes. Lets call it 5 lbs. That leaves us 24lbs....where John's numbers
may lead people astray..BUT if you note he weighed wheels axles etc. This
tells me he has the Matco wheels with the bungee gear and the spring gear
option came with the MAM 3 piece wheels etc which are indeed a lot heavier
than the Matco's. May be light turf tire vs Mcreary or Goodyears in here as
well. I don't know.
No matter how you slice it YOU have to be happy with what you have. It's as
simple as that. If you plan on change overs from floats to wheels each year
the bungee gear is the way to go for simplicity at change over. No adapter
to bolt on after trying to fish the saddle bolts up thru those little
fuselage holes behind the wing strut attach area. Change the bolt
length...bolt on the adapter and then the floats. Same thing in reverse
going back to wheels...etc...etc.
Cheers,
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <jimsrebel@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
-----------------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
spring gear..... a few pounds in plates/rivets/bolts and solid blocks for
the tubes. Lets call it 5 lbs. That leaves us 24lbs....where John's numbers
may lead people astray..BUT if you note he weighed wheels axles etc. This
tells me he has the Matco wheels with the bungee gear and the spring gear
option came with the MAM 3 piece wheels etc which are indeed a lot heavier
than the Matco's. May be light turf tire vs Mcreary or Goodyears in here as
well. I don't know.
No matter how you slice it YOU have to be happy with what you have. It's as
simple as that. If you plan on change overs from floats to wheels each year
the bungee gear is the way to go for simplicity at change over. No adapter
to bolt on after trying to fish the saddle bolts up thru those little
fuselage holes behind the wing strut attach area. Change the bolt
length...bolt on the adapter and then the floats. Same thing in reverse
going back to wheels...etc...etc.
Cheers,
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <jimsrebel@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel spring gear weight
ofHere is an old post regarding spring gear weight.
More info at post# 15699-15717
From: "WAYNE G. O'SHEA" <OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA> Number: 15717 Private:
No
To: ALL Reference: None Reads: 36
Date: 2/27/2004 12:40 PM Received: No Exported
Subject: Re: Spring gear leg wieght
Conference: Rebel Builders
Well this weeks wakes and funeral are out of the way, so I've had a bit
ittime to add to this today.
Weighed a set of aluminum gear legs (main/drag brace/joiner gusset
etc-everything but axle and wheel assembly) and bungee struts/safety cable
and bungee loops with bracing and cover of .025 = 14lbs
Same gear legs but with my 6" die spring struts instead = 20lbs
Pair of leaf gear legs with outboard saddle brackets = 20lbs
Therefore there would be no net difference between the "piper style" gear
legs using my die spring struts and the "leaf" leg gear when it comes to
installing the floats, other than maybe the minimal weight of the bolt on
float brackets for strut pickup at the fuselage if you have the leaf gear.
The overall empty weight of the aircraft is another thing due to the plate
doublers in the fuselage construction, but even that isn't extreme since
amounts to the weight of about a 2.5' x 4' piece of .063 6061 T6 and three
or four hundred RV1613/9 rivets....nothing else!
Cheers,
Wayne
On 1/18/2006 10:35 AM, beep@sympatico.ca wrote to rebel-builders:
->
-> Hi John !
->
-> Thanks for the kind words - and the numbers ! Now we have a
-> definite number - 35 lb. just for component difference....
-> should make the choice clear for anyone wanting to fit ELSA !
->
-> The McKenzie STOL kit, cuffs & fences only added about 13 lb.
-> total - it does help low-speed performance. The current Fife
-> wing tips have a setup for lightweight landing lights - IF you
-> want them for improved visibility. Otherwise, just go with
-> the nav/strobe combos - I saw the GS-air LED units at Sebring -
-> very impressive, and only $327 USD for complete package !
-> https://ssl.perfora.net/gs-
air.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=1543b2bd350d65c/shopdata/index.shopscript
-> or:
-> http://www.gs-air.com
->
-> Let us know which mods you are considering skipping - depending
-> on engine choice, most are essential ! Definitely need the FUS-30
-> doubler, and I would recommend Wayne's firewall plates, even if you
-> choose a 912 - the Rebel needs that extra weight up front ! Also,
-> that 1 1/2" or 2" channel along the full width of the bottom of
-> the instrument panel will strengthen the whole structure, and help
-> prevent throttle variations/fluctuation when taxiing on rough ground.
->
-> .....bobp
->
-> -------------------------------orig.-------------------------
-> On Tuesday 17 January 2006 11:11 pm, John Kramer wrote:
-> > Ron,
-> >
-> > Before I learned enough: to find this list, and then to ask the right
-> > questions, and then listen to the right people; someone at MAM
-> > convinced me the spring gear would be better in crosswind landings,
-> > that it was stronger, and offered no weight, or other penalty (I'm
-> > trying to build for 1320 gross and maximum utility) MAM shipped out
-> > the spring gear and I weighed all components (legs, wheels, brakes,
-> > &c.) against all components for the bungee gear that came with my
-> > kit. My scales showed a 35 pound difference, in just component
-> > weight. When you add in the required reinforcements the weight is
-> > more than significant.
-> >
-> > The fancier wheels and brakes certainly were nicer and the spring
-> > gear prettier to my eye, each piece was considerably heavier than the
-> > original equivalents. Once I get her standing I'm planning on
-> > Wayne's spring mod, I've already ordered Fife tips, but doubt my
-> > weight limitations will allow for Angus' cuff's. If I was building
-> > to full gross with a fat motor I'd have them for sure. I'm very
-> > carefully picking through the Ontario Mods as I can't afford them
-> > all, for a light plane some seem more important than others.
-> >
-> > I was fortunate that Robin agreed to accept the return. I get the
-> > feeling that doesn't often happen.
-> >
-> > I have learned to first search the archive, then ask, then listen to
-> > Wayne, Bob, Walt and the others who give so freely of their
-> > considerable knowledge. Without this resource I'm certain far fewer
-> > Rebels would ever fly.
-> >
-> > John...369R
-> >
-> > At 06:23 PM 01/17/06, you wrote:
-> > >How much heavier is the Rebel spring gear, compared to the bungee?
-> > >
-> > >Ron
-> > >
-> > >
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