seats

Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

The front side is logical from a viewing stand point...BUT DON'T DO
IT...it's supposed to go on the back side so the rivet holes are in
compression and not in tension.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: Seats

Hi all,
Building seats these days. The instructions are getting worse as I go on.

Do the seat backs have the aluminum skin put on the back side or is riveted
to the front side of the frame.

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

I had a bad feeling about that.............I had put it on the front side
and after finishing the second seat and looking at it again I realized I
could be wrong. Not sure what I'm going to do about it except stare at it a
couple days.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Seats

The front side is logical from a viewing stand point...BUT DON'T DO
IT...it's supposed to go on the back side so the rivet holes are in
compression and not in tension.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: Seats

Hi all,
Building seats these days. The instructions are getting worse as I go on.
Do the seat backs have the aluminum skin put on the back side or is
riveted
to the front side of the frame.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Dale Fultz · Post by **Dale Fultz** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Mike if the seat backs are the same on the Moose to tha aircraft you are
working on I have an extra one if you pay the shipping???? Dale Fultz
SR-033 You can't get it much cheaper.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: Seats

I had a bad feeling about that.............I had put it on the front side
and after finishing the second seat and looking at it again I realized I
could be wrong. Not sure what I'm going to do about it except stare at it
a
couple days.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: Seats

The front side is logical from a viewing stand point...BUT DON'T DO
IT...it's supposed to go on the back side so the rivet holes are in
compression and not in tension.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 04, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: Seats

Hi all,
Building seats these days. The instructions are getting worse as I go
on.
Do the seat backs have the aluminum skin put on the back side or is
riveted
to the front side of the frame.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Mike
You will find a few comments about broken seat backs occurring even with
the upgraded seat back reinforcing on the Rebel. As I've said I don't
know about the Elite. However on the Rebel I chose to reinforce the seat
back with a longer tube that goes as high up the seat back as possible
and triangulates the back. Similar to MAM but longer. Then it doesn't
matter where the rivets are. A seat failure can be quite serious. In
addition some of us prefer to wrap the aluminum around the seat tubes
and put the rivets into the side of the steel tubes. On an single tube
the side material of the tube is neither in compression or tension and
the rivet holes can't really contribute to cracking.
Ken

Mike Betti wrote:

Hi all,
Building seats these days. The instructions are getting worse as I go on. Do the seat backs have the aluminum skin put on the back side or is riveted to the front side of the frame.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Wayne,
Would you please explain how putting the seat back skin on the rear of the frame puts the rivets in compression?

By the way, I found that the seat backs ar not square and the rivet line runs off the tubes if a line is drawn between the end holes and seat skin rivet holes drilled on that line. Better to drill the holes on the seat tube first and use a hole finder to locate the skin holes. The rivet line may not be straight but a better attachment. If I were doing this again I would wrap the skins around the tube before riveting to decrease the possibility of tearoff.

Ralph Baker

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

..not the rivets Ralph..the holes. If you drill them on the front of the
seat the holes are in tension when you lean back against the seat....adding
to the possibility of a tube fracture. If you put then on the back the holes
are in compression thus not trying to open up. I broke my seat back last
summer. Glad I was parked when I did it!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Seats

Wayne,
Would you please explain how putting the seat back skin on the rear of the

frame puts the rivets in compression?

By the way, I found that the seat backs ar not square and the rivet line

runs off the tubes if a line is drawn between the end holes and seat skin
rivet holes drilled on that line. Better to drill the holes on the seat
tube first and use a hole finder to locate the skin holes. The rivet line
may not be straight but a better attachment. If I were doing this again I
would wrap the skins around the tube before riveting to decrease the
possibility of tearoff.

Ralph Baker

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Mike Rapoport · Post by **Mike Rapoport** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@sc.rr.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 5:56 AM
Subject: Seats

Wayne,
Would you please explain how putting the seat back skin on the rear of the
frame puts the rivets in compression?

By the way, I found that the seat backs ar not square and the rivet line
runs off the tubes if a line is drawn between the end holes and seat skin
rivet holes drilled on that line. Better to drill the holes on the seat
tube first and use a hole finder to locate the skin holes. The rivet line
may not be straight but a better attachment. If I were doing this again I
would wrap the skins around the tube before riveting to decrease the
possibility of tearoff.

Ralph Baker

What I did was to first rub a straitedge accross two or more tubes to locate
the exact center line of each tube. this left a slight burnished line in
the paint.. Then drill the holes at the end of each straight run and then
use a hole finder to drill the end holes in the skin. Then cleco a fan
spacer over the skin and frame between the end holes and center punch
through the fan spacer holes. Then drill through the skin and the frame. I
used a drill guide to hold the drill perpendicular. This worked well,
producing perfectly straight rivet lines located on the exact centerline of
the tubes. On the bends, just drill the holes along the burnished line and
use a hole finder to locate the holes for the skin. Peen the edge over with
a rubber hammer *after* riveting. I peened one before riveting and the skin
ended up oil canning..

Mike.

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Hi Mike I had a seat back break on the ground a couple years ago. I would
suggest not drilling the seat frame at all. just wrap the aluminum around
the frame and rivet it to itself. This is what I did after I welded my seat
back together with an inside doubler tube and all the holes filled.

At 09:51 PM 11/4/2005 -0600, you wrote:

Hi all,
Building seats these days. The instructions are getting worse as I go on.

Do the seat backs have the aluminum skin put on the back side or is riveted
to the front side of the frame.

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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Drew

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pequeajim · Post by **pequeajim** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Ken:

Do you have any pictures of this installation?

Jim!

On 11/5/2005 4:25 AM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Mike
-> You will find a few comments about broken seat backs occurring even with
-> the upgraded seat back reinforcing on the Rebel. As I've said I don't
-> know about the Elite. However on the Rebel I chose to reinforce the seat
-> back with a longer tube that goes as high up the seat back as possible
-> and triangulates the back. Similar to MAM but longer. Then it doesn't
-> matter where the rivets are. A seat failure can be quite serious. In
-> addition some of us prefer to wrap the aluminum around the seat tubes
-> and put the rivets into the side of the steel tubes. On an single tube
-> the side material of the tube is neither in compression or tension and
-> the rivet holes can't really contribute to cracking.
-> Ken
->
->
-> Mike Betti wrote:
->
-> >Hi all,
-> >Building seats these days. The instructions are getting worse as I go on.
Do the seat backs have the aluminum skin put on the back side or is riveted
to the front side of the frame.
-> >Thanks,
-> >Mike Betti
-> >771E
-> >
-> >
->
->
->

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Guys, I'm pretty sure the Elite seats are different from those on the Rebel,
and Mike has an Elite. My recollection is that I put the skins on the back
of the seat, but I'll check tomorrow.

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Same seats Al. Believe the Elite comes standard with the high backs and the
Rebel had two choices...which I think are gone now as well and only the high
back offered. Personally I prefer the old short back Rebel seat for both
looks and comfort. Either way same construction process for both.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Seats

Guys, I'm pretty sure the Elite seats are different from those on the

Rebel,

and Mike has an Elite. My recollection is that I put the skins on the

back

of the seat, but I'll check tomorrow.

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Turns out Dale Fultz's Moose have the same high back seats I have. He is
giving me an extra seat back that I will use for the pilot. The co-pilot
will be stuck with a repaired one.
Thanks to the group again for helping out,
Mike Betti
771E

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: Seats

Same seats Al. Believe the Elite comes standard with the high backs and
the
Rebel had two choices...which I think are gone now as well and only the
high
back offered. Personally I prefer the old short back Rebel seat for both
looks and comfort. Either way same construction process for both.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2005 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: Seats

Guys, I'm pretty sure the Elite seats are different from those on the
Rebel,
and Mike has an Elite. My recollection is that I put the skins on the
back
of the seat, but I'll check tomorrow.

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Sorry Jim, no pics and it's upholstered now.
However if you look at bulletin 070595rb it shows adding bracing. I just
added longer braces. They go as high up the seat back as possible. I'd
include the bulletin but it has photos and is 2 mb which would take
awhile on my connection.
Ken

pequeajim@dcsol.com wrote:

Ken:

Do you have any pictures of this installation?

Jim!

On 11/5/2005 4:25 AM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Mike
-> You will find a few comments about broken seat backs occurring even with
-> the upgraded seat back reinforcing on the Rebel. As I've said I don't
-> know about the Elite. However on the Rebel I chose to reinforce the seat
-> back with a longer tube that goes as high up the seat back as possible
-> and triangulates the back. Similar to MAM but longer. Then it doesn't
-> matter where the rivets are. A seat failure can be quite serious. In
-> addition some of us prefer to wrap the aluminum around the seat tubes
-> and put the rivets into the side of the steel tubes. On an single tube
-> the side material of the tube is neither in compression or tension and
-> the rivet holes can't really contribute to cracking.
-> Ken
-

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pequeajim · Post by **pequeajim** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:18 pm

Thanks Ken, that's fine. I will check it out. I will look today to see how
the guy I am buying the Rebel from did his pilot's seat.

Jim!

On 11/5/2005 6:39 PM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:

-> Sorry Jim, no pics and it's upholstered now.
-> However if you look at bulletin 070595rb it shows adding bracing. I just
-> added longer braces. They go as high up the seat back as possible. I'd
-> include the bulletin but it has photos and is 2 mb which would take
-> awhile on my connection.
-> Ken
->
-> pequeajim@dcsol.com wrote:
->
-> >Ken:
-> >
-> >Do you have any pictures of this installation?
-> >
-> >Jim!
-> >
-> >On 11/5/2005 4:25 AM, klehman@albedo.net wrote to rebel-builders:
-> >
-> >-> Mike
-> >-> You will find a few comments about broken seat backs occurring even
with
-> >-> the upgraded seat back reinforcing on the Rebel. As I've said I don't
-> >-> know about the Elite. However on the Rebel I chose to reinforce the
seat
-> >-> back with a longer tube that goes as high up the seat back as possible
-> >-> and triangulates the back. Similar to MAM but longer. Then it doesn't
-> >-> matter where the rivets are. A seat failure can be quite serious. In
-> >-> addition some of us prefer to wrap the aluminum around the seat tubes
-> >-> and put the rivets into the side of the steel tubes. On an single tube
-> >-> the side material of the tube is neither in compression or tension and
-> >-> the rivet holes can't really contribute to cracking.
-> >-> Ken
-> >-
-> >
->
->
->

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:30 pm

Does anyone have a source for foam to build up my seats? Also, looking for any pictures of finished seats for ideas.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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