Corrosion Protection

[klehman]

A comment on corrosion treatments:

In my experience, wax based protectants do not really work on cars because
sooner or later moisture gets under them. Sometimes they are worse than doing
nothing. At least one applicator (Ziebxxx) is no longer a major player in our
area.

What does work is new oil (used crankcase oil is toxic and can be acidic) that
can creep into all the nooks and crannies and keep moisture out. Actually in
cars, any moisture going through freeze thaw expansion cycles also tends to
loosen spot welds and crimped joints and degrade structural integrity quickly.
Oil stops this. Yes oil needs yearly reapplication for maximum benefit on a car
and most drip. The secondary benefit is a much stronger vehicle in a collision.

The ACF-50 and corrosion-X (and others) are very effective at killing or
neutralizing existing aluminum corrosion and they creep into nooks and crannies.
They don't last forever but neither do they trap moisture, build up weight when
reapplied, or become difficult to remove. Since this stuff does not get washed
off aircraft quickly, my experience favours these type of treatments reapplied
every few years.

The guys that have used the semi-hardening/wax or two part aircraft coatings, or
have more aircraft experience, can probably comment more but I wanted to mention
that there are pros and cons to both types of treatments. Another view is that
bare 6061 may outlast me and my kids even if I do nothing except stay out of
saltwater.

Ken

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[Bob Patterson]

Aurele,
What you have done is good protection - I wouldn't go back to
etching, as this would remove some of the protection, and likely
would not help the appearance.

Northern Shield, and ACF-50, etc. are only good for INSIDE
surfaces - they would likely be washed off the OUTSIDE over time, and
could be pretty ugly, to boot ! :-) It WOULD be good for inside
floats, though .....

Your Rebel has the epoxy chromate in all the joints, so there is
little to worry about for corrosion inside. The outside would likely
have been OK for several years without anything, but the Alodine you
added should give you years of protection, even if it isn't pretty...
The next step would be a light primer and full paint - but I wouldn't
rush to do that if you have no surface corrosion !

Northern Shield would be excellent protection for the inside, IF
you wanted to do it. It must be applied with a long 'wand' which blows
it in as a mist which creeps to coat all surfaces, then hardens to
a waxy state. It should last for many years. The 'wand' can be rented
(I think), or can be purchased from the company - contact:

Bob Marsh, National sales Manager,
Northern Shield Protective Coatings,
4391 Harvester road, Unit 9,
Burlington, Ontario L7L 4X1
Tel.: (905) 631-7887 Fax.: (905) 631-8105

Let him know that you heard about it through me and the RAA-TR
Rebel Builders of Ontario group - they will give you a good price !
(Bob did a presentation on the product at a meeting a few years ago ...)

The wands are expensive - about $200, I think, but the treatment
itself is cheap - about $35 for enough to do a complete aircraft !!!

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 06:50 PM 4/16/00 -0400, you wrote:

Bob, see you landed safely somewhere as I see your laptop is working.
Further to your note, would it be a good idea for me to scrub the rebel down
with Aluminaprep and pad to remove these streaks and then is there anything
I can use for protection. You mentioned primer..., but waht about the
Northern Sheilds stuff you mentioned. If so, where do get this stuff? It
sounds like it is cheap, easy to apply and doesn't add much weight. Would it
laso be good for the interior, especially the tail section. I don't know
what was done to this aircraft when first built.

Thanks Bob,

Aurele Lavigne
Rebel 063



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: corrosion protection

A couple of good points, Ken !! Acetone is probably a better choice
than Metal-Sol or MEK - it isn't nearly as hard on the liver, kidneys,
and lungs !! It also gets rid of any water very effectively.

Stay tuned - I learned about a new NON TOXIC degreaser at Sun 'n Fun
and will soon have sources. It's called Citrus-Safe (or something like
that), is VERY effective, leaves no residue, doesn't hurt the environment,
and is now being used by Boeing !! It IS, however, very pricey - BUT
I am checking a "equivalent" product that is much cheaper in bulk ...

The builder who told me about it said he weighed the cost of a
new liver and decided this stuff was a bargain !! ;-)

The Northern Shield corrosion prevention system would be a better
and cheaper solution than ACF-50, which is messy, drips off, and must
be re-done frequently. Northern Shield goes in as a mist, penetrates,
and sets up to a waxy finish in a few days, so only has to be done
once - and it costs under $50 to do the whole aircraft ...
(we had a presentation on it at a meeting a few years ago ..)

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------

-

At 07:58 AM 4/14/00 -0400, you wrote:

Mike

I degreased with acetone, then a quick scotch-brite scrub with metal prep

on the

exterior (do it in sections and rinse with a hose), then epoxy primer. I

did

not use the metal prep on the interior. The metal prep is diluted 4:1

with

water

so a quart is enough for the whole airplane and I was impressed with its
effectiveness and ease of use. You get both a chemical etch this way and

a

mechanical "etch" from the scotch brite.

For the interior fuselage I took my chances on scotch-brite alone

followed by

acetone degrease. Use a very light coat of primer. It would have been

easier to

do the panels before assembly but it wasn't too bad with an hvlp sprayer.

I

left

my wing interior bare but will spray Corrosion-X or ACF-50 oil after

painting

the exterior.

I refused to do the alodine for environmental reasons.

I get the fine (maroon) scotch brite pads from Princess Auto (cheap) or

an

industrial supplier at about cdn $0.80 ea. for 6" x 9" and cut them into

3

smaller pieces.

Ken

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[Bob Patterson]

Interesting insight & thought provoking comment !!

I'm very much in agreement with your latter view - the 6061 WILL
last a LONG time !! :-) I <did> get some light surface oxidation on the
bottom wing skins after 4 years sitting out in the rain, but I think that
could have been avoided by more frequent washing & waxing.

Generally, the Rebel should last a LOT longer than the last batch of
Cessnas - before the long shutdown, they didn't use ANY corrosion proofing
AT ALL - in at least the last 5 years of production !!!

I have heard that ACF-50 is basically just Soy Bean Oil, with some
additives to keep it from going rancid..... Certainly hard to beat plain
oil for protection. I'm not sure, but the Boeing 2 part coating (D-25 ?)
may be an epoxy formulation.

As usual - you pays your money, makes your choice, and do what you
think is best for YOUR aircraft !!! :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.---------------------------------------
At 09:21 AM 4/17/00 -0400, you wrote:

A comment on corrosion treatments:

In my experience, wax based protectants do not really work on cars because
sooner or later moisture gets under them. Sometimes they are worse than doing
nothing. At least one applicator (Ziebxxx) is no longer a major player in our
area.

What does work is new oil (used crankcase oil is toxic and can be acidic) that
can creep into all the nooks and crannies and keep moisture out. Actually in
cars, any moisture going through freeze thaw expansion cycles also tends to
loosen spot welds and crimped joints and degrade structural integrity quickly.
Oil stops this. Yes oil needs yearly reapplication for maximum benefit on a car
and most drip. The secondary benefit is a much stronger vehicle in a collision.

The ACF-50 and corrosion-X (and others) are very effective at killing or
neutralizing existing aluminum corrosion and they creep into nooks and

crannies.

They don't last forever but neither do they trap moisture, build up weight when
reapplied, or become difficult to remove. Since this stuff does not get washed
off aircraft quickly, my experience favours these type of treatments reapplied
every few years.

The guys that have used the semi-hardening/wax or two part aircraft

coatings, or

have more aircraft experience, can probably comment more but I wanted to

mention

that there are pros and cons to both types of treatments. Another view is that
bare 6061 may outlast me and my kids even if I do nothing except stay out of
saltwater.

Ken

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[Doug Martin]

I am not in favor of ACF50 as the working materils won't stay suspended in
the carrier (fluid)you have to keep shaking the can. I think that Corrision
X is a better product. Also did you know that WD40 was origionaly sold only
in 55 gallon drums as a corrsion proofing compund? Then when thay found
that it worked as a lubricant they started to sell it in the small cans
only! now it's hard to buy 55 gallons.

At 09:06 PM 4/17/2000 -0400, you wrote:

Aurele,
What you have done is good protection - I wouldn't go back to
etching, as this would remove some of the protection, and likely
would not help the appearance.

Northern Shield, and ACF-50, etc. are only good for INSIDE
surfaces - they would likely be washed off the OUTSIDE over time, and
could be pretty ugly, to boot ! :-) It WOULD be good for inside
floats, though .....

Your Rebel has the epoxy chromate in all the joints, so there is
little to worry about for corrosion inside. The outside would likely
have been OK for several years without anything, but the Alodine you
added should give you years of protection, even if it isn't pretty...
The next step would be a light primer and full paint - but I wouldn't
rush to do that if you have no surface corrosion !

Northern Shield would be excellent protection for the inside, IF
you wanted to do it. It must be applied with a long 'wand' which blows
it in as a mist which creeps to coat all surfaces, then hardens to
a waxy state. It should last for many years. The 'wand' can be rented
(I think), or can be purchased from the company - contact:

Bob Marsh, National sales Manager,
Northern Shield Protective Coatings,
4391 Harvester road, Unit 9,
Burlington, Ontario L7L 4X1
Tel.: (905) 631-7887 Fax.: (905) 631-8105

Let him know that you heard about it through me and the RAA-TR
Rebel Builders of Ontario group - they will give you a good price !
(Bob did a presentation on the product at a meeting a few years ago ...)

The wands are expensive - about $200, I think, but the treatment
itself is cheap - about $35 for enough to do a complete aircraft !!!

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-----------------------------------------
At 06:50 PM 4/16/00 -0400, you wrote:

Bob, see you landed safely somewhere as I see your laptop is working.
Further to your note, would it be a good idea for me to scrub the rebel down
with Aluminaprep and pad to remove these streaks and then is there anything
I can use for protection. You mentioned primer..., but waht about the
Northern Sheilds stuff you mentioned. If so, where do get this stuff? It
sounds like it is cheap, easy to apply and doesn't add much weight. Would it
laso be good for the interior, especially the tail section. I don't know
what was done to this aircraft when first built.

Thanks Bob,

Aurele Lavigne
Rebel 063



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: corrosion protection

A couple of good points, Ken !! Acetone is probably a better choice
than Metal-Sol or MEK - it isn't nearly as hard on the liver, kidneys,
and lungs !! It also gets rid of any water very effectively.

Stay tuned - I learned about a new NON TOXIC degreaser at Sun 'n Fun
and will soon have sources. It's called Citrus-Safe (or something like
that), is VERY effective, leaves no residue, doesn't hurt the environment,
and is now being used by Boeing !! It IS, however, very pricey - BUT
I am checking a "equivalent" product that is much cheaper in bulk ...

The builder who told me about it said he weighed the cost of a
new liver and decided this stuff was a bargain !! ;-)

The Northern Shield corrosion prevention system would be a better
and cheaper solution than ACF-50, which is messy, drips off, and must
be re-done frequently. Northern Shield goes in as a mist, penetrates,
and sets up to a waxy finish in a few days, so only has to be done
once - and it costs under $50 to do the whole aircraft ...
(we had a presentation on it at a meeting a few years ago ..)

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------

-

At 07:58 AM 4/14/00 -0400, you wrote: on the

did

with

water

a

followed by

easier to

I

left

painting

an

3

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Doug Martin
greyghost@powernet.net
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[McClary, Terry (GEAE)]

Don't rely on WD40 for long term corrosion protection. When WD40 came on the
market I was working as a police officer and WD40 was advertised as the greatest
thing going for firearm protection. What we found was it is great short term,
but if you didn't replenish the film regularly the firearm would start to rust
when continuously exposed to the weather.

WD40 works great short term but there is no guarantee on the life of the
protective film. (Also works good as a solvent.)

Terry


-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Martin [mailto:greyghost@powernet.net]
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2000 9:47 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: corrosion protection


I am not in favor of ACF50 as the working materils won't stay suspended
in
the carrier (fluid)you have to keep shaking the can. I think that Corrision
X is a better product. Also did you know that WD40 was origionaly sold only
in 55 gallon drums as a corrsion proofing compund? Then when thay found
that it worked as a lubricant they started to sell it in the small cans
only! now it's hard to buy 55 gallons.

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[klehman]

Doug

There is also a suggestion in the ASS catalog that Corosion-X is good for 2
years. That is slightly longer than the 18 months mentioned for ACF-50. Don't
know if that really means anything though. Also didn't know the stuff needed to
be shaken during application.

WD-40 will displace water and it doesn't seem to do any harm. Virtually anything
works better for corrosion protection for me though. I have had good results
with LPS 3 or Fluid Film on small steel parts and tools though. Those products
seem to stop rusting on tools (even a saw table) for years without leaving an
objectionable oil film.

In Southern Ontario (fairly humid), I start seeing signs of surface corrosion on
bare 6061 after about 3 years. That is in a covered and well ventilated, but
unheated shed. Overnight temperatures here often cause condensation on the
metal.

Ken

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[David A. Ricker]

Bob

Is the Poly Fibre primer you are referring to P/N EP-420 & 430 that came
with our Elite?
I was under the impresion it did not contain chromate.

Dave R.

Bob Patterson wrote:

Mike,
If you are going to spray the Polyfiber Epoxy Chromate Primer on the
large inside surfaces, you need only wipe them down with Metal-Sol first,
and spray a VERY thin coat - you should be able to read the lettering
on the aluminum through it ! Anything thicker will add weight, and
might even be thick enough to crack, allowing moisture penetration.

Be sure to use a proper forced-air hood for spraying, as this stuff
can be fatal if it gets into your lungs as a spray !

If you are going to spray parts which have already been put together
with wet Epoxy Chromate Primer, be careful not to flood the surface
with Metal-Sol, or you might dissolve some of the existing Primer in
the joints.

Etching and Alodine treating is an alternative, but Alodine is
an environmental hazard, and hard to dispose of. This method is no
longer a popular solution....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 07:40 AM 4/13/00 -0400, you wrote:

I have decided to cromate the interior parts of my rebel. Has any one had
experience with the products aircraft spruce sells. For example there are
several metal prep products listed.

1- improved metal prep no.79
2- alodine no. 1201

Or does any one know of a simplier way to prep aluminum for cromating?
Also are scotch abrasive pads available at Home depot and do I need them as
some builders have said?

Mike#007
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--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256
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[Bob Patterson]

Dave,
Not sure of part numbers, but this IS the product that Murphy
recommends, and DID supply with the kits, until the 'hazardous material'
shipping laws interfered !!

My impression was that it still DID contain zinc chromate, but
not as much as in earlier versions. I may (could ... very likely!)
be wrong ! :-)

I'm convinced it is still the best product for the joints ....

....bobp

----------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:14 AM 4/19/00 -0300, you wrote:

Bob

Is the Poly Fibre primer you are referring to P/N EP-420 & 430 that came
with our Elite?
I was under the impresion it did not contain chromate.

Dave R.

Bob Patterson wrote:

Mike,
If you are going to spray the Polyfiber Epoxy Chromate Primer on the
large inside surfaces, you need only wipe them down with Metal-Sol first,
and spray a VERY thin coat - you should be able to read the lettering
on the aluminum through it ! Anything thicker will add weight, and
might even be thick enough to crack, allowing moisture penetration.

Be sure to use a proper forced-air hood for spraying, as this stuff
can be fatal if it gets into your lungs as a spray !

If you are going to spray parts which have already been put together
with wet Epoxy Chromate Primer, be careful not to flood the surface
with Metal-Sol, or you might dissolve some of the existing Primer in
the joints.

Etching and Alodine treating is an alternative, but Alodine is
an environmental hazard, and hard to dispose of. This method is no
longer a popular solution....

....bobp

-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 07:40 AM 4/13/00 -0400, you wrote:

I have decided to cromate the interior parts of my rebel. Has any one had
experience with the products aircraft spruce sells. For example there are
several metal prep products listed.

1- improved metal prep no.79
2- alodine no. 1201

Or does any one know of a simplier way to prep aluminum for cromating?
Also are scotch abrasive pads available at Home depot and do I need them as
some builders have said?

Mike#007
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--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256
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[klehman]

Dave

FWIW my old can says "EP-420 Epoxy Chromate Primer". My brand new can says
simply "EP-420 Epoxy Primer". Sounds like something changed.

Ken
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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Your following message has been delivered to the 156 members of
the list murphy-rebel@dcsol.com at 21:23:46 on 19 Apr 2000.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yah! Less ink on the label!!

-----Original Message-----
From: klehman@albedo.net <klehman@albedo.net>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: corrosion protection

Dave

FWIW my old can says "EP-420 Epoxy Chromate Primer". My brand new can says
simply "EP-420 Epoxy Primer". Sounds like something changed.

Ken
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[McClary, Terry (GEAE)]

Dave R.,

Care to share where you got your recommendations on which DuPont products to
use? Did you use a web site, local dealer, or user recommendations to determine
which is the best product for the application and how to apply.

I've bought a quart of the Poly Fiber primer and the associated pre-prime
chemicals. I also talked to the distributors at Sun N Fun about pre-prime
cleaning and primer application. The Poly Fiber factory was very helpful and
fast about providing MSDS sheets and answering questions by telephone, but, I
didn't ask for any of the details you did.

I know a couple of the fellows in my EAA chapter have talked about using DuPont
products on their projects. I decided to stay with the Murphy recommendation
but I haven't started priming. If DuPont supports their products better, maybe
I'll switch before I get started.

Terry


-----Original Message-----
From: David A. Ricker [mailto:ricker@dbis.ns.ca]
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 9:44 AM
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
Subject: Re: corrosion protection


Ken, Bob

It looks like something changed (before we got our kit, about March '97). Our
package
says nothing about chromate and a quick call to Poly F confirms that there is no
chromate
in the product. The guy I talked to said they had put in some "miracle"
additive called
"hibosil" or" hiboseal". When pressed on how this worked (as in, does it form a
sacrificial anode like zinc chromate or does it simply improve adhesion) the guy
wouldn't
discuss it. Trade secret. For me that just confirms our decision to deal with
Dupont
who are willing to discuss their products and not give you the PR face.

FWIW, we are using a Dupont etching wash primer recommended for aluminum
(Corlar) which
has the option of chromate or not and is availible at your local auto parts
jobber (no
HAZMAT shipping issues). For the chromate version they specifically say
alodine/irridite
chromic conversion treatments are NOT required.

Hope this helps put more info in the hands of those that can use it.

Dave R.

klehman@albedo.net wrote:

Dave

FWIW my old can says "EP-420 Epoxy Chromate Primer". My brand new can says
simply "EP-420 Epoxy Primer". Sounds like something changed.

Ken

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David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256


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[David A. Ricker]

Ken, Bob

It looks like something changed (before we got our kit, about March '97). Our package
says nothing about chromate and a quick call to Poly F confirms that there is no chromate
in the product. The guy I talked to said they had put in some "miracle" additive called
"hibosil" or" hiboseal". When pressed on how this worked (as in, does it form a
sacrificial anode like zinc chromate or does it simply improve adhesion) the guy wouldn't
discuss it. Trade secret. For me that just confirms our decision to deal with Dupont
who are willing to discuss their products and not give you the PR face.

FWIW, we are using a Dupont etching wash primer recommended for aluminum (Corlar) which
has the option of chromate or not and is availible at your local auto parts jobber (no
HAZMAT shipping issues). For the chromate version they specifically say alodine/irridite
chromic conversion treatments are NOT required.

Hope this helps put more info in the hands of those that can use it.

Dave R.

klehman@albedo.net wrote:

Dave

FWIW my old can says "EP-420 Epoxy Chromate Primer". My brand new can says
simply "EP-420 Epoxy Primer". Sounds like something changed.

Ken
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256


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[Bob Patterson]

Dave,

I've always been a bit afraid of "etching wash primers" - when, and
how, do they STOP etching ??? The thought of the paint eating away metal
whenever it gets wet worries me .... but I'm no chemist.

Can you tell us how this works ???
.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 10:43 AM 4/20/00 -0300, you wrote:

Ken, Bob

It looks like something changed (before we got our kit, about March '97).

Our package

says nothing about chromate and a quick call to Poly F confirms that there

is no chromate

in the product. The guy I talked to said they had put in some "miracle"

additive called

"hibosil" or" hiboseal". When pressed on how this worked (as in, does it

form a

sacrificial anode like zinc chromate or does it simply improve adhesion)

the guy wouldn't

discuss it. Trade secret. For me that just confirms our decision to deal

with Dupont

who are willing to discuss their products and not give you the PR face.

FWIW, we are using a Dupont etching wash primer recommended for aluminum

(Corlar) which

has the option of chromate or not and is availible at your local auto parts

jobber (no

HAZMAT shipping issues). For the chromate version they specifically say

alodine/irridite

chromic conversion treatments are NOT required.

Hope this helps put more info in the hands of those that can use it.

Dave R.

klehman@albedo.net wrote:

Dave

FWIW my old can says "EP-420 Epoxy Chromate Primer". My brand new can says
simply "EP-420 Epoxy Primer". Sounds like something changed.

Ken

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256


*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

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[David A. Ricker]

Bob

I don't have the chemists' answer for you but I expect it goes like this: There probably
is not enough of the active chemical agent in the paint to continue forever. For a
chemical reaction to continue indefinitely it would require an infinite supply of the
reactants, I suspect there is much more aluminum available compared to the etchant and
that the etchant is used up before the paint dries. The rest of the answer may include
chemical changes occurring when the epoxy curing reaction takes place neutralizing any
further chemical reaction with the aluminum, Dupont could probably answer that one for
us.

The pragmatic outlook on this is that a company as big and professional as Dupont
wouldn't advise you to use a product in a manner that could leave them open to the
Pirahana feeding frenzy of liability lawyers but that is not my specialty either.....

As with anything we home builders (experimenters) do we must satisfy ourselves that what
we are doing makes sense for us. This forum is filled with many people with a wide
variety of experiences to draw upon so I am confident that plenty of suitable and safe
choices will be debated to the point where we can make intelligent decisions.

Hope this adds to the knowledge base!

Dave R.


Bob Patterson wrote:

Dave,

I've always been a bit afraid of "etching wash primers" - when, and
how, do they STOP etching ??? The thought of the paint eating away metal
whenever it gets wet worries me .... but I'm no chemist.

Can you tell us how this works ???
.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 10:43 AM 4/20/00 -0300, you wrote:

Ken, Bob

It looks like something changed (before we got our kit, about March '97).

Our package

says nothing about chromate and a quick call to Poly F confirms that there

is no chromate

in the product. The guy I talked to said they had put in some "miracle"

additive called

"hibosil" or" hiboseal". When pressed on how this worked (as in, does it

form a

sacrificial anode like zinc chromate or does it simply improve adhesion)

the guy wouldn't

discuss it. Trade secret. For me that just confirms our decision to deal

with Dupont

who are willing to discuss their products and not give you the PR face.

FWIW, we are using a Dupont etching wash primer recommended for aluminum

(Corlar) which

has the option of chromate or not and is availible at your local auto parts

jobber (no

HAZMAT shipping issues). For the chromate version they specifically say

alodine/irridite

chromic conversion treatments are NOT required.

Hope this helps put more info in the hands of those that can use it.

Dave R.

klehman@albedo.net wrote:

Dave

FWIW my old can says "EP-420 Epoxy Chromate Primer". My brand new can says
simply "EP-420 Epoxy Primer". Sounds like something changed.

Ken

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm

*---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------*

--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256


*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*--------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------*

*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

--
David A. Ricker P. Eng.
DARTEC Engineering Inc.
3 Tamarac Drive
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada, B2T 1E8
ricker@dbis.ns.ca
Ph. 902-860-0256


*-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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[Jones, Mike]

Was wondering if anybody has tried or heard of a product from a company
called Everbrite. They produce a clear protective coating for metals which
requires little or no prep work. It can brushed, sprayed or dipped for
application and forms a very thin filrm .5 mil, very light weight and lasts
10-15 years if exposed to elements. Only draw back its not fuel proof. Was
considering it for corrosion protection inside tail surfaces and fuselage
and perhaps wings.
The product is currently being looked at by Boeing for corrosion protection.
Web link is as follows

www.everbrite.net

Please let me know if anyone has any info

Mike
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