Wray
You WANT an SS firewall (either one) for your own satisfaction. The SS
firewall buys you time you need to get back to tera firmae, in the event (God
forbid) of an in-flight fire.
Bruce G
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firewall
-
rebelair
Firewall
Hi Wray
Our local inspector would not pass an all aluminium firewall. On my friend
Ron's plane we riveted a piece of stainless steel supplied by MAM to the
existing firewall. We only found out after we had the witches hat riveted
on of course. This all had to come off an be redone.
On my kit, #328R, I obtained a complete stainless steel firewall instead of
an aluminium one. MAM supplied this & it is the simplest & lightest way to
go. Depends on what stage you are at.
MAM told us that aluminium was OK in the US but not necessarily so in
Canada.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
wrayt
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 7:00 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I'm sure I've seen lots of comments here about the requirement for a
stainless steel fire wall. My Fus-6 (firewall)
Our local inspector would not pass an all aluminium firewall. On my friend
Ron's plane we riveted a piece of stainless steel supplied by MAM to the
existing firewall. We only found out after we had the witches hat riveted
on of course. This all had to come off an be redone.
On my kit, #328R, I obtained a complete stainless steel firewall instead of
an aluminium one. MAM supplied this & it is the simplest & lightest way to
go. Depends on what stage you are at.
MAM told us that aluminium was OK in the US but not necessarily so in
Canada.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
wrayt
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 7:00 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I'm sure I've seen lots of comments here about the requirement for a
stainless steel fire wall. My Fus-6 (firewall)
-
rebelair
Firewall
Hi Wray
I just read Wayne's reply. More blunt than I am but agree with every word.
I repeat, do not accept that from MAM. You will lose that argument in the
Toronto area.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:27 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Sorry to have to say it, but Murphy Tech is full of s--t on that one!!!!!
None of the MD-RA inspectors will accept an aluminum firewall (or they won't
have the position of inspector much longer if they did!) If this was the
case why has MAM been sending out Stainless sheet and firewalls to the
Canadian builders since 1994??? Don't you remember all the bullshit Toby
Riley (and crew) went through with theirs, trying to cover the aluminum
firewall after the aircraft was together and snagged for an aluminum
firewall!
Like I said, just call Elaine in shipping and ask for you stainless firewall
(as your kit should have come with one), just like they ship in all the kits
that go out to Canada these days. I don't see how they get by in the U.S
either as they are supposed to follow AC43 down there also and a firewall is
to be either Galvanized or Stainless. (or covered with a suitable material
to pass the flame test and aluminum will not pass)
Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "wrayt" <wrayt@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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I just read Wayne's reply. More blunt than I am but agree with every word.
I repeat, do not accept that from MAM. You will lose that argument in the
Toronto area.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:27 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
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Sorry to have to say it, but Murphy Tech is full of s--t on that one!!!!!
None of the MD-RA inspectors will accept an aluminum firewall (or they won't
have the position of inspector much longer if they did!) If this was the
case why has MAM been sending out Stainless sheet and firewalls to the
Canadian builders since 1994??? Don't you remember all the bullshit Toby
Riley (and crew) went through with theirs, trying to cover the aluminum
firewall after the aircraft was together and snagged for an aluminum
firewall!
Like I said, just call Elaine in shipping and ask for you stainless firewall
(as your kit should have come with one), just like they ship in all the kits
that go out to Canada these days. I don't see how they get by in the U.S
either as they are supposed to follow AC43 down there also and a firewall is
to be either Galvanized or Stainless. (or covered with a suitable material
to pass the flame test and aluminum will not pass)
Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "wrayt" <wrayt@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*The list archives are located at:
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username: rebel password: builder
firewall.Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*I'm to have my inspector call him. What do you think?
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
notWray, contact Elaine at Murphy! They know that the aluminum firewall is
oraccepted in Canada and will (have been) supply(ing) a stainless firewall
ofsheet at no cost (part wise or shipping). Refuse her offer for a piece
instainless sheet and ask specifically for a completely formed stainless
firewall. We just did that a month, or so, ago for the customers I have
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*the shop!
Good luck,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "wrayt" <wrayt@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*I'm sure I've seen lots of comments here about the requirement for a
stainless steel fire wall. My Fus-6 (firewall) is .032 Al. Should i
also have a piece of stainless that sandwiches to this? If so does it
have a number? I can't seem to find anything. TNX
--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664
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rebelair
Firewall
Hi Wray
I don't believe you can guarantee it will pass. Are you going to gamble &
hope that your firewall is OK'd by who knows what inspector when the time
comes? Can you imagine how you would feel if the inspector says no to it?
Do you think you can win an argument with an inspector? No insult intended
towards anyone. The inspectors I had were great people & I really
appreciate all they did for me but they are people. If they feel you should
have a SS firewall, they are not going to be easily swayed.
I would not accept this argument under any circumstance from MAM. Get the
SS on your airplane. I don't even think having aluminium only as a firewall
is a great idea in itself.
My humble opinion but I have been there.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
wrayt
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:01 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
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username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum
firewall.
I'm to have my inspector call him.
I don't believe you can guarantee it will pass. Are you going to gamble &
hope that your firewall is OK'd by who knows what inspector when the time
comes? Can you imagine how you would feel if the inspector says no to it?
Do you think you can win an argument with an inspector? No insult intended
towards anyone. The inspectors I had were great people & I really
appreciate all they did for me but they are people. If they feel you should
have a SS firewall, they are not going to be easily swayed.
I would not accept this argument under any circumstance from MAM. Get the
SS on your airplane. I don't even think having aluminium only as a firewall
is a great idea in itself.
My humble opinion but I have been there.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
wrayt
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:01 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
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username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum
firewall.
I'm to have my inspector call him.
-
rebelair
Firewall
Hi Ken
The Carbo fibrefrax is what Toby Riley tried to use on his aircraft & the
inspector did not accept it. I don't know what the final outcome was in
that battle, but it was not easy for them.
I used fibrefrax in furnaces I built at GE. It was great material, but the
inspectors are not familiar with it so why should they sign off on it. It
is putting them in a tough position & if something happened, they would be
hauled onto the carpet.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:08 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Wray
While I would have preferred a formed ss firewall, I am happy with the
0.018 ss lamination on my aluminum firewall. It picked up the four
engine mount points and stiffened things up nicely. Think it added
almost 8 lb but I don't know how thick the formed ss firewall is to
compare. The aluminum flanges are certainly easier to drill when
installing it. The second layer might cut noise and heat a little.
Al Mahon (sp?), the chief inspector, suggested using high temp rtv
around the edges of the ss which will look a little Mickey Mouse but
will help insulate the flanges a little in a fire I guess.
I think fibrefrax insulation sandwiched between aluminum is also
acceptable as well.
I would want it in writing from Al before I dared installing the bare
aluminum firewall in case the final inspector is a different person than
the one you are now dealing with. Even then it may be harder to sell the
aircraft. The rules seem pretty straight forward.
Ken
wrayt wrote:
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The Carbo fibrefrax is what Toby Riley tried to use on his aircraft & the
inspector did not accept it. I don't know what the final outcome was in
that battle, but it was not easy for them.
I used fibrefrax in furnaces I built at GE. It was great material, but the
inspectors are not familiar with it so why should they sign off on it. It
is putting them in a tough position & if something happened, they would be
hauled onto the carpet.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:08 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Wray
While I would have preferred a formed ss firewall, I am happy with the
0.018 ss lamination on my aluminum firewall. It picked up the four
engine mount points and stiffened things up nicely. Think it added
almost 8 lb but I don't know how thick the formed ss firewall is to
compare. The aluminum flanges are certainly easier to drill when
installing it. The second layer might cut noise and heat a little.
Al Mahon (sp?), the chief inspector, suggested using high temp rtv
around the edges of the ss which will look a little Mickey Mouse but
will help insulate the flanges a little in a fire I guess.
I think fibrefrax insulation sandwiched between aluminum is also
acceptable as well.
I would want it in writing from Al before I dared installing the bare
aluminum firewall in case the final inspector is a different person than
the one you are now dealing with. Even then it may be harder to sell the
aircraft. The rules seem pretty straight forward.
Ken
wrayt wrote:
firewall.Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*I'm to have my inspector call him. What do you think?
You have received this message because you have subscribed to the
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rebelair
Firewall
Hi Wray
Any extra weight out there is not acceptable to me as it does not do one
thing for you. Will probably add about 2 pounds to your overall weight +
another 1/4 pound for all the RTV you are going to use all around the
corners.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
wrayt
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
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username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I talked to Elaine and she immediately put me onto tech support who said it
would pass. I'll get hold of RAA tomorrow I guess and see if I can find out
who
my inspector will be and see what he has to say.
Any extra weight out there is not acceptable to me as it does not do one
thing for you. Will probably add about 2 pounds to your overall weight +
another 1/4 pound for all the RTV you are going to use all around the
corners.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com [mailto:murphy-rebel@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
wrayt
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 10:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
I talked to Elaine and she immediately put me onto tech support who said it
would pass. I'll get hold of RAA tomorrow I guess and see if I can find out
who
my inspector will be and see what he has to say.
-
bob.patterson
Firewall
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall
Hi Wray !
I think he's dead wrong ! (who was it, just out of curiosity ?)
There is absolutely NO WAY that an aluminum "firewall" will be
accepted in Canada or USA !!
Have been through this before - the ONLY acceptable installations
are: all stainless, all galvanized steel, a sheet of stainless on
top of the aluminum, or aluminum with 2 layers of Fiberfrax glued
to the front with the H.T. Silica adhesive. The latter was passed only
once, after a year of discussion, followed by flame testing - it
<is> light weight, but be prepared for possible hassles !
My preference would be to use that aluminum <bulkhead>, and
rivet the sheet of .018 stainless to the front with stainless Avex's,
as was done on MANY of the early kits. New kits have thicker, formed
stainless firewalls. The reason for keeping the thicker aluminum
bulkhead is that it adds considerable rigidity, and is easier to fit.
The formed stainless is very rubbery and hard to line up - but be
sure to install the witches hats, bracing channel, (and Wayne's
firewall reinforcing kit) BEFORE fitting the firewall - otherwise,
it will wiggle so much that the odds are very good it will end up
crooked !!! (A good coat of epoxy primer between the 2 layers is
needed to prevent electrolytic corrosion !)
The extra rigidity will prevent the buckling of the all stainless
firewalls that showed up before the reinforcing channel was added.
.......bobp
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 06:00 PM 4/17/01 -0700, you wrote:
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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Firewall
Hi Wray !
I think he's dead wrong ! (who was it, just out of curiosity ?)
There is absolutely NO WAY that an aluminum "firewall" will be
accepted in Canada or USA !!
Have been through this before - the ONLY acceptable installations
are: all stainless, all galvanized steel, a sheet of stainless on
top of the aluminum, or aluminum with 2 layers of Fiberfrax glued
to the front with the H.T. Silica adhesive. The latter was passed only
once, after a year of discussion, followed by flame testing - it
<is> light weight, but be prepared for possible hassles !
My preference would be to use that aluminum <bulkhead>, and
rivet the sheet of .018 stainless to the front with stainless Avex's,
as was done on MANY of the early kits. New kits have thicker, formed
stainless firewalls. The reason for keeping the thicker aluminum
bulkhead is that it adds considerable rigidity, and is easier to fit.
The formed stainless is very rubbery and hard to line up - but be
sure to install the witches hats, bracing channel, (and Wayne's
firewall reinforcing kit) BEFORE fitting the firewall - otherwise,
it will wiggle so much that the odds are very good it will end up
crooked !!! (A good coat of epoxy primer between the 2 layers is
needed to prevent electrolytic corrosion !)
The extra rigidity will prevent the buckling of the all stainless
firewalls that showed up before the reinforcing channel was added.
.......bobp
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 06:00 PM 4/17/01 -0700, you wrote:
firewall.*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
The list archives are located at:
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
username: rebel password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Just called Murphy tech and they said it will pass with the aluminum=
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*I'm to have my inspector call him.=A0 What do you think?
"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:
=
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*=A0 The list archives are located at:
=A0 http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
=A0 username: rebel=A0=A0=A0=A0 password: builder
=
notWray, contact Elaine at Murphy! They know that the aluminum firewall is=
oraccepted in Canada and will (have been) supply(ing) a stainless firewall=
insheet at no cost (part wise or shipping). Refuse her offer for a piece of
stainless sheet and ask specifically for a completely formed stainless
firewall. We just did that a month, or so, ago for the customers I have=
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*the shop!
Good luck,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "wrayt" <wrayt@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 6:59 PM
Subject: Firewall
=
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*==A0=A0 The list archives are located at:
=A0=A0 http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/default.htm
=A0=A0 username: rebel=A0=A0=A0=A0 password: builder
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*=I'm sure I've seen lots of comments here about the requirement for a
stainless steel fire wall. My Fus-6 (firewall) is .032 Al. Should i
also have a piece of stainless that sandwiches to this? If so does it
have a number? I can't seem to find anything. TNX
--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664
list-server@dcsol.com=A0=A0 You have received this message because you have subscribed to the
=A0=A0 murphy-rebel mailing list.
=A0=A0 To unsubscribe from this list, send an e-mail to:=
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*==A0=A0 with "unsubscribe murphy-rebel" in the body of the message.
=A0=A0 For assistance contact mike.davis@dcsol.com
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*=
list-server@dcsol.com=A0 You have received this message because you have subscribed to the
=A0 murphy-rebel mailing list.
=A0 To unsubscribe from this list, send an e-mail to:=
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*=A0 with "unsubscribe murphy-rebel" in the body of the message.
=A0 For assistance contact mike.davis@dcsol.com
=
--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664
=A0
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Mike Betti
Firewall
Hi all,
I would like to rivet up the cabin forward except for the firewall, then
remove firewall for easy access to interior painting and controls. Then
install firewall and rivet in last. Does anyone know if the firewall
will go in and out of the taper the cabin forward has?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 E
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I would like to rivet up the cabin forward except for the firewall, then
remove firewall for easy access to interior painting and controls. Then
install firewall and rivet in last. Does anyone know if the firewall
will go in and out of the taper the cabin forward has?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 E
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Rebflyer
Firewall
Hi Mike,
Yes you can do it that way. I even have the firewall moved back the 3"
and was able to do a whole lot of wiring standing up instead of lying on by
back! I had a forest of clecos in place. On another note, some of the builders
reversed the firewall, so the flange is facing aft, taking the air
disturbing lip and putting it in. Not sure of the other problems you may create doing
that, such as motor mount fittings having to dodge the flange, but if others
have done that, or if Wayne see's any benefit or not, it's worth the look
into.
Keep at it, it's a blast when your
done!!
Curt N97MR
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Yes you can do it that way. I even have the firewall moved back the 3"
and was able to do a whole lot of wiring standing up instead of lying on by
back! I had a forest of clecos in place. On another note, some of the builders
reversed the firewall, so the flange is facing aft, taking the air
disturbing lip and putting it in. Not sure of the other problems you may create doing
that, such as motor mount fittings having to dodge the flange, but if others
have done that, or if Wayne see's any benefit or not, it's worth the look
into.
Keep at it, it's a blast when your
done!!
Curt N97MR
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Ken
Firewall
I wired mine just by leaving the glareshield panel off. Access was
pretty good and it allowed wiring the engine and controls which is often
done before the avionics anyway.
Ken
Rebflyer@aol.com wrote:
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pretty good and it allowed wiring the engine and controls which is often
done before the avionics anyway.
Ken
Rebflyer@aol.com wrote:
Hi Mike,
Yes you can do it that way. I even have the firewall moved back the 3"
and was able to do a whole lot of wiring standing up instead of lying on by
back! I had a forest of clecos in place. On another note, some of the builders
reversed the firewall, so the flange is facing aft, taking the air
disturbing lip and putting it in. Not sure of the other problems you may create doing
that, such as motor mount fittings having to dodge the flange, but if others
have done that, or if Wayne see's any benefit or not, it's worth the look
into.
Keep at it, it's a blast when your
done!!
Curt N97MR
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Jim Cole
Firewall
I just started to layout the firewall this afternoon and remember that
some are reversing the firewall so that the flange is inside and
therefore the flange doesn't restrict the airflow out of the bottom from
the engine compartment.
Doing this, it would seem that the actual firewall would be 3/4 of an
inch (width of the flange) further forward. Is this a concern or do I
cut 3/4 inch from the FUS 11s where they join the cabin (fus 4)??
Thanks
Jim
Rebel 333
Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
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some are reversing the firewall so that the flange is inside and
therefore the flange doesn't restrict the airflow out of the bottom from
the engine compartment.
Doing this, it would seem that the actual firewall would be 3/4 of an
inch (width of the flange) further forward. Is this a concern or do I
cut 3/4 inch from the FUS 11s where they join the cabin (fus 4)??
Thanks
Jim
Rebel 333
Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
SORRY....will be fishin the Bay of Quinte!! Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 9:06 PM
Subject: Next Murphy Builders Meeting - This Sunday, Nov. 13 !
It's that time again !!! This coming Sunday !!
The next Rebel Builders of Ontario Meeting is Sunday, November 13th,
at 12:30 pm. at the RAA-TR HANGAR at the far north end of Brampton
Airport. ======
(North-West of Toronto, Ontario, Canada) (CNC3)
*** Note the earlier START TIME !! We WILL start at 12:30, and
finish about 3:30 -- to make things easier for those who
fly in, or drive in from long distances (like Rochester !) :-)
With less daylight, this should still get you home by dark. ***
We have been meeting in the HANGAR since the clubhouse BURNED
DOWN !! The rebuilding is progressing, but donations are still
needed to complete it. Bring your own chairs, and we may have to
work around any airplanes that are in the hangar ... but we're
used to working around airplanes ! ;-)
There will be a 'New Clubhouse Donations Jar' for the meeting -
- a Twoney or 2 would sure help, as the RAA-TR had no insurance.
**********************************************************************
You don't want to miss all the fun, so PLEASE BE HERE for 12:20 !
**********************************************************************
We're going to continue the kit type forum format for this meeting,
with Q & A. These forums will be ~10-15 minute 'mini-seminars' on the
different kits. Ken has kindly become leader of the Rebel forum,
and he always brings new and interesting information & gadgets.
We're looking for an experienced builder to volunteer
to lead the sessions for the Moose, Elite, etc., ideally on a regular
basis for all future meetings.
Maybe our key Elite expert (Al) will make it to this meeting,
but some other Elite'ist' might want to jump in, and there's room for
a Maverick or Renegade section, too, if we have interest....
Who will be recognized as the builder who has "Made the
Most Progress Since the Last Meeting" ?? Always a tough call, and now
the building season is on - so be here for the introductions
& progress updates !! You could take home the Copper Cleco Trophy !
Last meeting, Ken Lehman won the Copper Cleco Trophy - he'll
be bringing it back, so we can award it to YOU this time -
--- IF you've been busy rivetting ! ;-)
Please put on your thinking caps & bring your 'subjects'...
We need key topics for each meeting, far enough ahead that builders
can round up articles, photos, and pieces to show - soooooo ....
BRING YOUR suggestions for TOPICS for future meetings.
As the 'type forum' idea continues, these topics will go to the
forum leaders.
We REALLY hope the weather will be good, so we can see a
bunch of "Fly-In" Rebels/Elites/Meeses/whatevers !! The weather
forecast is iffy, though !! Hope we get a good one, and Al will be
able to show us his amphib Elite improvements, and Tom will bring
the 912 Rebel again ! If we're lucky, Pierre will show his new
'ultimate Rebel' again, too ...
Don't take chances though, if it's raining - better to drive
& arrive alive !!
If you do drive, you can join us for pizza & beer afterward !! ;-)
We'll also have some new guests & Rebel builders, and another
draw for Rebel crests, or some new Rebel hats etc. ....
As last time, we'll have some useful software CDs to hand out
at the end, for those suffering with WinDoze ! :-)
Should be an interesting meeting !
Phone us for updates or directions - (905) 457-5238.
Hope to see you all there ! There is a lot of experience to share ...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Free coke, spring water, coffee & donuts, as usual - everyone welcome !
(Even if you don't have a Rebel <yet> !) ;-)
We'll have tea, bagels, cream cheese, & jam, too !!
.....bobp & Anna
--------------------------------------------------------------
p.s. Please bring a folding lawn chair - no more couches !
p.p.s. We usually go out for pizza & beer after the meeting - all
welcome !
THANKS !
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Ken
Firewall
Hi Jim
I might consider that to get the flanges and rivets away from any flames
(although I just used a filet of fireseal) however with the bottom
horizontal tube of most engine mounts across the bottom just forward of
the firewall I don't see how it will help airflow much. It would also
change how you mount the cowl. In any event I don't think I'd want to
move the firewall forward even 3/4" so I'd cut the FUS 11's etc.
Ken
Jim Cole wrote:
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I might consider that to get the flanges and rivets away from any flames
(although I just used a filet of fireseal) however with the bottom
horizontal tube of most engine mounts across the bottom just forward of
the firewall I don't see how it will help airflow much. It would also
change how you mount the cowl. In any event I don't think I'd want to
move the firewall forward even 3/4" so I'd cut the FUS 11's etc.
Ken
Jim Cole wrote:
I just started to layout the firewall this afternoon and remember that
some are reversing the firewall so that the flange is inside and
therefore the flange doesn't restrict the airflow out of the bottom from
the engine compartment.
Doing this, it would seem that the actual firewall would be 3/4 of an
inch (width of the flange) further forward. Is this a concern or do I
cut 3/4 inch from the FUS 11s where they join the cabin (fus 4)??
Thanks
Jim
Rebel 333
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Rebflyer
Firewall
HI Jim,
Although I didn't flip my firewall around that flange does make a
difference in the airflow. Several of us have just faired from the bottom of the
firewall to about 2 1/2 inches up. I do believe on the dynafocal mount there is
no cross tube, that's why you'll want cross bracing there, between the
bathtub fittings, like Wayne's float beef up piece. On the conical mount there is
a cross tube so the bottom brace isn't necessary, like Ken spoke of, but the
fairing is very necessary. It made over 25 deg f difference in cht's for me.
I also wondered if the flanges reversed would get in the way of the mount
fittings as they go tight to the firewall. I guess you'd either have to remove
the flange in the way or shim under the mount to keep it flat. If you decide
to leave it as plans, you can always make a test fairing out of duct tape as I
initially did.
Just don't be in a rush to install the firewall permanently as it is sure
nice to do a lot of the electrical while sitting down instead of lying on
your back under the panel.
Good luck, Curt N97MR
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Although I didn't flip my firewall around that flange does make a
difference in the airflow. Several of us have just faired from the bottom of the
firewall to about 2 1/2 inches up. I do believe on the dynafocal mount there is
no cross tube, that's why you'll want cross bracing there, between the
bathtub fittings, like Wayne's float beef up piece. On the conical mount there is
a cross tube so the bottom brace isn't necessary, like Ken spoke of, but the
fairing is very necessary. It made over 25 deg f difference in cht's for me.
I also wondered if the flanges reversed would get in the way of the mount
fittings as they go tight to the firewall. I guess you'd either have to remove
the flange in the way or shim under the mount to keep it flat. If you decide
to leave it as plans, you can always make a test fairing out of duct tape as I
initially did.
Just don't be in a rush to install the firewall permanently as it is sure
nice to do a lot of the electrical while sitting down instead of lying on
your back under the panel.
Good luck, Curt N97MR
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mbetti
Firewall
Hi all,
Just finished the wiring of the panel and looking at installing the firewall permanently. I've read in the past about using the 3M fire barrier sealant. Do I need to put this stuff in the joint or can I put a bead on the inside? It's kind of a tight fit putting in the firewall with everything else already riveted and I am afraid I will just push the sealant out of place. Are all the rivets put in now or do you leave some out for the cowl install later?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
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Just finished the wiring of the panel and looking at installing the firewall permanently. I've read in the past about using the 3M fire barrier sealant. Do I need to put this stuff in the joint or can I put a bead on the inside? It's kind of a tight fit putting in the firewall with everything else already riveted and I am afraid I will just push the sealant out of place. Are all the rivets put in now or do you leave some out for the cowl install later?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
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Jim Cole
Firewall
Hi Bob/Richard, I just went out to the hangar and measured my firewall
which I didn't cut back. Now it depends exactly where you measure - but
for rough comparison measure from the door post at the top of FUS 11
(which is the side panel between the two corner wraps) - 22 inches while
at the bottom of the door it was 24 inches. My firewall flange is facing
forward.
Cheers
Jim 333
Bob Patterson wrote:
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which I didn't cut back. Now it depends exactly where you measure - but
for rough comparison measure from the door post at the top of FUS 11
(which is the side panel between the two corner wraps) - 22 inches while
at the bottom of the door it was 24 inches. My firewall flange is facing
forward.
Cheers
Jim 333
Bob Patterson wrote:
Hi Richard !
Others have covered the FUS-30 doubler - I would just order an
extra from the factory, because of the bends....
It's hard to tell about your firewall position from the pics on
Barnstormers, but it does look like it was moved back 3" --- but this
necessitates a steel "shelf" sticking out from the top of the firewall
to fill in under the windshield - which is not in the pics ....
Sorry, don't have a measurement for reference .... If you can
post a side view pic, it would be easier to tell.
There's nothing to worry about if it wasn't moved - most builders
today do not move it back, regardless of engine. This gives a much
wider range of engine choices .... If it was moved, you are stuck
with an O-320 or similar (O-290 is not a good choice - haven't been
made since about 1954, and parts are 5 times the price of O-320
parts !! Also, often slightly heavier than O-320's ... and more
prone to valve problems ... :-( )
The rivet gun is used stock - the modified rivet gun trick only
applies to Zenith kits - because they use a different rivet style
& technique.
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