TORQUE TUBES

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Hello All,

I was working away on a set of SR wings today and while installing the torque tube (and spraying it with silicon) started thinking about comments I've read here previously. Many have given the advice not to lubricate the Delrin Bearings or you will be sorry.

As many of you know I have co-owned a Plastic Injection Moulding business for over 15 years. We have moulded numerous high precision components from various grades of Delrin over the years, spanning from intricate seat belt locking mechanisms for Bendix and TRW, to vertical window blind gear boxes for the consumer market. We found that the vertical blind gear boxes would start to squeak (sound like nails on a chalk board) within weeks of being put in a sunny window as the "self lubricating" properties of the Delrin seemed to disappear, causing them to be returned by the customers. These gear boxes are manufactured from the identical grade of Delrin as the torque tube bushings supplied with your kit and Dupont was of no help at all!

With over $750M invested in moulds to manufacture the various components for our window covering line, we had no choice but to test every possible product under the sun to find a cure for this problem. We learned very quickly that "silicon" is not manufactured the same by anyone!!! We tried Dow Corning, Champion and many others! Sprays and liquids! Most products all leave a gooy residue(or melt the delrin) and make things worse as some of you are warning about.

The only silicon we found that works properly ( we haven't had a gear box returned in over 11 years and we sell over one million pieces per year!) is manufactured by CROWN, Product #68034 and available for industrial use only. You should be able to buy it from local industrial hardware suppliers if you want to give it a try.

But please don't tell our competition our trade secret! Keep building it's worth it in the end!!!!!!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

[Mike Betti]

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due to the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the 3" hole required for the tubes.
Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root and transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?
Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due to
the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the
3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[N.Smith]

Thanks Wayne

I needed that as well :-)

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 26 October 2005 02:50
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: torque tubes


Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due to
the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the
3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[mbetti]

Thanks Wayne,
That's just what I wanted to hear and I understand what you are saying, but??maybe it's too early in the morning, how is the front adjustable? Or what is adjustable?
Mike Betti
771E

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:49:43 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due to
the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the
3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[N.Smith]

Hi Mike

When the wing attaches to the fus it is attached solid to the rear attach
point, and the front one fits somewhere (wherever) into the box section at
the front and then is shimmed solid in the box section with collars made
from something like delrin. Therefore the rear attach is the only stationary
fixed reference for both parts.

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
mbetti@up.net
Sent: 26 October 2005 13:42
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: torque tubes



Thanks Wayne,
That's just what I wanted to hear and I understand what you are saying,
but??maybe it's too early in the morning, how is the front adjustable? Or
what is adjustable?
Mike Betti
771E

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:49:43 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due to
the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the
3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Thanks Nigel....exactly! Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 8:54 AM
Subject: RE: torque tubes

Hi Mike

When the wing attaches to the fus it is attached solid to the rear attach
point, and the front one fits somewhere (wherever) into the box section at
the front and then is shimmed solid in the box section with collars made
from something like delrin. Therefore the rear attach is the only

stationary

fixed reference for both parts.

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
mbetti@up.net
Sent: 26 October 2005 13:42
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: torque tubes



Thanks Wayne,
That's just what I wanted to hear and I understand what you are saying,
but??maybe it's too early in the morning, how is the front adjustable? Or
what is adjustable?
Mike Betti
771E

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 21:49:43 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due

to

the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate

the

3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root

and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Thinking about it some more.....considering the slight angle of 1* that the
wing is on, the hole in the cabin may be slightly lower than the wing if
using a square to measure off the wing surface. The extra 1/2" clearance
around the hole should cover it..but you may want to cheat about a 1/4"
further down on the fuselage hole.
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:11 AM
Subject: RE: torque tubes

Thanks Wayne

I needed that as well :-)

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 26 October 2005 02:50
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: torque tubes


Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due

to

the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the
3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root

and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[mbetti]

OK thanks Wayne,
I can't really picture what this connection is like between the cabin torque tubes and the torque tubes inside the wing. Once I understand that it will make sense.
Mike Betti

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:28:20 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Thinking about it some more.....considering the slight angle of 1* that the
wing is on, the hole in the cabin may be slightly lower than the wing if
using a square to measure off the wing surface. The extra 1/2" clearance
around the hole should cover it..but you may want to cheat about a 1/4"
further down on the fuselage hole.
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:11 AM
Subject: RE: torque tubes

Thanks Wayne

I needed that as well :-)

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 26 October 2005 02:50
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: torque tubes


Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due

to

the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the
3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root

and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[mbetti]

I found the detail of the connection of torque tubes to the wing and kind of understand it now, I think. I think what I'm seeing is the fuselage torque tubes are supported by the cut off bolt sticking out of the fuse side. The idea is to cut my 3" hole close enough to allow the 2 tubes to come together butt end to butt end on each side.???
Mike Betti

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 10:28:20 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Thinking about it some more.....considering the slight angle of 1* that the
wing is on, the hole in the cabin may be slightly lower than the wing if
using a square to measure off the wing surface. The extra 1/2" clearance
around the hole should cover it..but you may want to cheat about a 1/4"
further down on the fuselage hole.
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 4:11 AM
Subject: RE: torque tubes

Thanks Wayne

I needed that as well :-)

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: 26 October 2005 02:50
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: torque tubes


Just measure the wings torque tube center location based on the rear wing
pick up point (since the front is "adjustable" and rear is not). Distance
from pickup and distance down from top of wing at that location. Transfer
that location to the fuselage and you'll be just fine!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 9:45 PM
Subject: torque tubes

Hi all,
I'm trying to fit all I can into the fuselage prior to painting the

interior. I already fit most of the controls and then removed them for
painting. I haven't done anything with the aileron control tubes yet due

to

the fact the manual mentions I need to mount the wings so I can locate the
3" hole required for the tubes.

Is it possible to locate the 3" holes by measurement of the wing root

and

transfer it to the fuselage wing root? Will that be accurate enough?

Thanks,
Mike Betti



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[Mike Betti]

Builders,
I'm working on installing the fuselage torque tubes and the hanger from the cabin roof. What kind of nut is supposed to go inside to connect the tubes and spacers to the hanger? The manual says castle nut but the part no. they call out is a locknut. I would really like to put the right nut and bolt there due to probably will never see them again once riveted.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[N.Smith]

Hi Mike

Not got there myself yet but...any rotational part should have a castle nut
and cotter/slit pin fitted.

Nig
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 30 October 2005 15:00
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Torque tubes


Builders,
I'm working on installing the fuselage torque tubes and the hanger from the
cabin roof. What kind of nut is supposed to go inside to connect the tubes
and spacers to the hanger? The manual says castle nut but the part no. they
call out is a locknut. I would really like to put the right nut and bolt
there due to probably will never see them again once riveted.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Ken]

The Rebel uses a FS5000 nut plate. From the first page of AC43.13/1B on
nuts (a search for "locknuts" should bring it up) it would seem that any
bolts that are tight and do not rotate do not need a castle nut and
cotter pin. On the Rebel that bolt gets torqued tight and does not
rotate, so I think it is OK to use a nutplate or a locknut if someone
chooses to do so. I am not familiar with the Elite.
Ken

N.Smith wrote:

Hi Mike

Not got there myself yet but...any rotational part should have a castle nut
and cotter/slit pin fitted.

Nig
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 30 October 2005 15:00
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Torque tubes


Builders,
I'm working on installing the fuselage torque tubes and the hanger from the
cabin roof. What kind of nut is supposed to go inside to connect the tubes
and spacers to the hanger? The manual says castle nut but the part no. they
call out is a locknut. I would really like to put the right nut and bolt
there due to probably will never see them again once riveted.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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[Alan Hepburn]

I used a nylon locknut.

The hanger can use some reinforcement. I used the surplus rear portion of
one of the cabin roof ribs, cut it in half lengthwise, and riveted it to the
ST-31 and to the cabin roof. I also installed a diagonal brace from the
hanger to the upper left corner of the cabin. I believe there's a photo in
"Elite Mods".

Al





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[mbetti]

Ok Thanks,
The bolt and nut clamp 2 spacers to the hanger tight and then the control tube end plugs rotate on the spacers. Seems like a concern for wear out to me or the need for lubrication. What lube do I need here?
Mike Betti
771E

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 21:36:20 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

The Rebel uses a FS5000 nut plate. From the first page of AC43.13/1B on
nuts (a search for "locknuts" should bring it up) it would seem that any
bolts that are tight and do not rotate do not need a castle nut and
cotter pin. On the Rebel that bolt gets torqued tight and does not
rotate, so I think it is OK to use a nutplate or a locknut if someone
chooses to do so. I am not familiar with the Elite.
Ken

N.Smith wrote:

Hi Mike

Not got there myself yet but...any rotational part should have a castle nut
and cotter/slit pin fitted.

Nig
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 30 October 2005 15:00
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Torque tubes


Builders,
I'm working on installing the fuselage torque tubes and the hanger from the
cabin roof. What kind of nut is supposed to go inside to connect the tubes
and spacers to the hanger? The manual says castle nut but the part no. they
call out is a locknut. I would really like to put the right nut and bolt
there due to probably will never see them again once riveted.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

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