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Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
Wayne G. O'Shea

Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:01 pm

The dual brake sytem is available for the Elite and the Rebel...using a
single pair of cylinders and interconnected pedals. This whole thread has
had me confused as to why guys are doing the added complication of dual
cylinder assemblies.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:32 AM
Subject: RE: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

I wonder if there is enough room to install the Super Rebel system in the
Rebel. One set of brake cylinders on the pilot side and the co-pilot side
mechanically connected to the pilot side. As a flight instructor, I have
only once had a problem with a student when I said, "I've got the
airplane."
He wouldn't let go when the airplane entered a spin after mucking up an
approach to landing stall. Had to jab him in the ribs. All my students
except for that one time knew that "I've got the airplane" means hands and
feet off the controls.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Gustafson
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:10 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

I gave up trying to figure out where to put them and how to use them,
let alone find a supplier. I assume one set of brake pads.
If they are on the output side, once the brakes are set the brakes
will stay locked.
If they are on the intake side, both pedals become slower acting, but
this has the best chance for success.
If the brakes are in series, the down stream set dominates, and the up
stream pedals are useless. This is my approach.
After asking around I was not able to find check valves.
I was able to see a Rebel that had a mechanical system but plane is in
Maine now.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:31 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

Hi Jack
No I don't but out of curiosity how would you plumb them. Off the top of
my head I don't see how 4 check valves will work. Maybe on the inlets to
the cylinder if they will open under very little pressure but then it
will be difficult to bleed the system. Most guys seem to use a
mechanical system to link the brake pedals to one cylinder on the Rebel.
Ken

lawsondj@comcast.net wrote:
I really would like to consider operating the brake cylinders in parallel
for student/insructor purposes. Does anyone know where to get the required
check valves. These valves (4 req'd) have to hold off several hundred psi.
Thanks for a reply
Jack Joos, SR193





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Mike Kimball

Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

Post by Mike Kimball » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:02 pm

Oh yeah. I forgot. There is a very good reason to not have controls on the
passenger side at all. Two flight instructors in the same plane at the same
time! :-)

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Kimball
Sent: Friday, October 21, 2005 8:32 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

I wonder if there is enough room to install the Super Rebel system in the
Rebel. One set of brake cylinders on the pilot side and the co-pilot side
mechanically connected to the pilot side. As a flight instructor, I have
only once had a problem with a student when I said, "I've got the airplane."
He wouldn't let go when the airplane entered a spin after mucking up an
approach to landing stall. Had to jab him in the ribs. All my students
except for that one time knew that "I've got the airplane" means hands and
feet off the controls.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Gustafson
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:10 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

I gave up trying to figure out where to put them and how to use them,
let alone find a supplier. I assume one set of brake pads.
If they are on the output side, once the brakes are set the brakes
will stay locked.
If they are on the intake side, both pedals become slower acting, but
this has the best chance for success.
If the brakes are in series, the down stream set dominates, and the up
stream pedals are useless. This is my approach.
After asking around I was not able to find check valves.
I was able to see a Rebel that had a mechanical system but plane is in
Maine now.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:31 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

Hi Jack
No I don't but out of curiosity how would you plumb them. Off the top of
my head I don't see how 4 check valves will work. Maybe on the inlets to
the cylinder if they will open under very little pressure but then it
will be difficult to bleed the system. Most guys seem to use a
mechanical system to link the brake pedals to one cylinder on the Rebel.
Ken

lawsondj@comcast.net wrote:
I really would like to consider operating the brake cylinders in parallel
for student/insructor purposes. Does anyone know where to get the required
check valves. These valves (4 req'd) have to hold off several hundred psi.
Thanks for a reply
Jack Joos, SR193





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lawsondj

Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

Post by lawsondj » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:02 pm

Thanks to all for responding to the original thread concerning the use of check valves. All the comments lead to the conclusion that CV,s aren't really appropriate for this application. If I had thought it through better I'd have realized that adding a CV in the high pressure side is like adding a parking brake valve that you can't release.
Thanks for all the inputs.

In a reply to Wayne's comment on why use dual cylinders, I had heard that some folks were experiencing an "over centering" lockup in the mechanical coupling arrangement--so I bypassed the mechanically coupled arrangement in favor of dual cylinders.

Jack Joos
Moose #193

-------------- Original message --------------
The dual brake sytem is available for the Elite and the Rebel...using a
single pair of cylinders and interconnected pedals. This whole thread has
had me confused as to why guys are doing the added complication of dual
cylinder assemblies.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball"
To:
Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 12:32 AM
Subject: RE: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

I wonder if there is enough room to install the Super Rebel system in the
Rebel. One set of brake cylinders on the pilot side and the co-pilot side
mechanically connected to the pilot side. As a flight instructor, I have
only once had a problem with a student when I said, "I've got the
airplane."
He wouldn't let go when the airplane entered a spin after mucking up an
approach to landing stall. Had to jab him in the ribs. All my students
except for that one time knew that "I've got the airplane" means hands and
feet off the controls.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Gustafson
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 2:10 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

I gave up trying to figure out where to put them and how to use them,
let alone find a supplier. I assume one set of brake pads.
If they are on the output side, once the brakes are set the brakes
will stay locked.
If they are on the intake side, both pedals become slower acting, but
this has the best chance for success.
If the brakes are in series, the down stream set dominates, and the up
stream pedals are useless. This is my approach.
After asking around I was not able to find check valves.
I was able to see a Rebel that had a mechanical system but plane is in
Maine now.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2005 4:31 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Brake Master Cylinders - 2 pair

Hi Jack
No I don't but out of curiosity how would you plumb them. Off the top of
my head I don't see how 4 check valves will work. Maybe on the inlets to
the cylinder if they will open under very little pressure but then it
will be difficult to bleed the system. Most guys seem to use a
mechanical system to link the brake pedals to one cylinder on the Rebel.
Ken

lawsondj@comcast.net wrote:
I really would like to consider operating the brake cylinders in parallel
for student/insructor purposes. Does anyone know where to get the required
check valves. These valves (4 req'd) have to hold off several hundred psi.
Thanks for a reply
Jack Joos, SR193





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