Scott 3200 Tailwheel

[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ian !

Sorry to hear of your many troubles - certainly haven't
seen so much trouble here.... Over 1,000 hours on the first one,
NO parts replaced !

The rivets would shear - that's why we all have "Ontario Mod. #1"
- the FUS-30 doubler (see photo in files) !

I would never think about using that chunk of aluminum called
a "spring" !! At the very least, it should be ground to taper to
1/2 thickness by the tailwheel end ... I <only> use the original
fiberglass 'springs' - they work great, and have a very benign
failure mode - they delaminate eventually ! :-)

Don't know what the problem with the roll pins in the plate
might be - second time I've heard of this - perhaps the size or
material has changed .... Anybody know ???

Also, the sliding lock pin <was> steel - if I understand Drew,
it is now BRASS ???? That would obviously not wear nearly as well !

My concern with the spring you use being too 'bouncy' is that,
taxiing on rough ground, it could be bouncing the tail up into the
air, slamming the tailwheel down too hard, and possibly twisting
sideways as well, putting much higher than normal loads on those
pins & the bushings !!! Too much bounce can be a 'bad thing',
and only a single leaf might twist too easily. :-(
The fiberglass has some internal damping ...

Sorry - NO idea where to get the fiberglass springs now -
Aircraft Spruce DID sell them a few years ago .... Might have
to fabricate my next one myself ! ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 08 October 2005 09:34 pm, IAN DONALDSON wrote:

G'day bobp

Thanks for your response.

I'm glad to learn that you have had a successful time with your standard
Murphy tailwheel, but I can't say the same about mine! :-(

Here are some of the problems encountered so far.
The rivets in the tail cone sheared due to the rigidity of the factory
supplied aluminium "spring."
The two 1/8' roll pins that hold the cam plate have broken on two

occasions.

The cams on locking mechanism have worn down so quickly that I have had to
build them up with weld twice.
The 1/8" pins that holds the wheel fork to the central spindle sheared.

This

meant that the wheel was uncontrollable.
The aluminum housing is now worn so badly that I will have to put a bush

in

it to take up the slack on the central spindle.

All these problems have arisen despite me being diligent in maintenance

and

greasing as needed. Maybe the problems that I have encountered with the
wheel are perhaps due to our Australian conditions, but as far as I am
concerned the quality of the Murphy wheel is definitely not acceptable.

I regards to the replacement spring, I don't know what you mean by "a bit
too bouncy" or what difference that it would make to the operation of the
wheel. The spring that I am using now seems to be OK and it is certainly
much kinder to the rear of the rebel than the standard "spring".

I am aware of the weight difference and will do a new weight and balance
calculation before making the change to the Scott. Would you know what

the

weight of a standard wheel is? I could then do my W&B calculations at

home

before pulling the wheel off my Rebel.

regards


Ian Donaldson

I'm very surprised that you had problems with the original
tailwheel - unless you rounded the ends of the locking pin ....
maybe the spring you're using is a bit tooo bouncy ! :-)
The standard factory setup has worked great for me on 3 Rebels,
and many more I've flown - no problems.

I'd be very careful about adding a Scott 3200 to a 912 Rebel !
The C of G is already pretty far back, and 8+ lb. at the tail
could cause serious problems. Would be worth re-calculating to
be safe !

......bobp

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[IAN DONALDSON]

G'day Bob

Over 1,000 hours on the first one, NO parts replaced !
Well that is the way that things go sometimes, but as far as I am concerned
the quality of the wheel for the conditions that we have here is really not
good enough.

The rivets would shear - that's why we all have "Ontario Mod. #1"> - the
FUS-30 doubler (see photo in files) !
I have the Ontario mod done and it still sheared the rivets!


I would never think about using that chunk of aluminum called a "spring"
!! At the very least, it should be ground to taper to 1/2 thickness by the
tailwheel end ... I <only> use the original fiberglass 'springs' - they
work great, and have a very benign failure mode - they delaminate
eventually ! :-)

Well you have the benefit of experience, but I built the plane exactly as
the factory instructions and had no idea that it would be unsatisfactory.
They never mentioned that the "spring" was unsatisfactory or that there was
a fibreglass alternative. If it causes such damage why does the factory
continue to use them?

My concern with the spring you use being too 'bouncy' is that,
taxiing on rough ground, it could be bouncing the tail up into the
air, slamming the tailwheel down too hard, and possibly twisting
sideways as well, putting much higher than normal loads on those
pins & the bushings !!! Too much bounce can be a 'bad thing',
and only a single leaf might twist too easily. :-(

Ok! I have checked the action of the spring and the wheel does not seem to
leave the ground unnecessarily. It has just a smooth fluid ride, except for
when it hits a big rut. I guess then that no matter what you then it would
leap into the air.
Maybe another spring would counter the torsional side loads. That is
something that I will look at.

I think that some of the trouble with the wheel is that if there is any
slack at all in the central pivot pin bush, or if the central bolt is not
shimmed up so that there is no slack at all it will work enough to finally
fracture the locating pins.
Anyway I have reworked it enough to keep flying while I sort out the Scott.



regards

Ian Donaldson








-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[IAN DONALDSON]

G'day

Thanks for the tip. I have not got around to doing it yet but will keep your
idea in mind.

regards

Ian Donaldson

I have drilled through heat treated 4130 tubing (heat treated to Rockwell
#45) with even just a cobalt bit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Ken]

Hi Ian

FWIW I'd suspect that the largest factor when considering a tailwheel
upgrade is probably the diameter of the tailwheel and whether it is
pneumatic or solid rubber. A larger diameter rolls over bumps with less
shock and a pneumatic should be able to grip the surface better as well.
I think the tailwheel is about the only thing that I haven't upgraded on
119R as I want to keep incentive there for installing floats ;)
However I have done both the later factory upgrades to the Rebel tail.
1. The triangular pieces (Fus89 ??) that span the bulkhead that the
forward stabilizer attaches to.
2. The doubler with the three 3/16 rivets through the tailpost.

If those and the Ontario Fus 30 doubler have all been done and rivets
are still shearing even with a steel tailspring, then I'd certainly be
considering a larger pneumatic tailwheel. I think those tailpost rivets
are going to shear regardless of what tailwheel is in place if they have
not been upgraded to 3/16. Even floatplanes have reported them sheared
as I recall.

I compared (measured) the flex and twist of the fibreglass tailspring to
trailer spring steel springs a few years ago. Details are probably in
the archives but I think I concluded that one medium leaf (almost 5/16"
thick) was probably in the ballpark. I installed a two leaf spring
(about 1/4" thick each) but the second leaf stops a few inches ahead of
the tailwheel. I'm sure 3 leaves would be fine too although I didn't
think the extra weight was justified with the springs that I used. But
this is just my theory. Interestingly I don't recall anyone saying that
they have any time on the aluminum "spring" and are still happy with it??

As a fall back possibility (after I fly it) I had been keeping the 8"
pneumatic Matco in mind for a possible upgrade but at this point I'm
leaning towards making a Bearhawk style tailwheel but with an 8"
pneumatic wheel (if I'm unhappy with the MAM installation).

Drew - I'm resonably sure that 119R also has a STEEL square locking pin.

Ken

My concern with the spring you use being too 'bouncy' is that,
taxiing on rough ground, it could be bouncing the tail up into the
air, slamming the tailwheel down too hard, and possibly twisting
sideways as well, putting much higher than normal loads on those
pins & the bushings !!! Too much bounce can be a 'bad thing',
and only a single leaf might twist too easily. :-(

Ok! I have checked the action of the spring and the wheel does not seem to
leave the ground unnecessarily. It has just a smooth fluid ride, except for
when it hits a big rut. I guess then that no matter what you then it would
leap into the air.
Maybe another spring would counter the torsional side loads. That is
something that I will look at.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Dale Fultz]

If anyone needs springs and knows what they need. I have a friend that works
where they make springs. If you have sizes of what you need he can make
them up for you usually at a very reasonable price. E-mail me if I can help
out. These are steel springs. Dale SR-033




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Yes if you are talking shearing the 3 rivets from the tail post to FUS-31
junction...these are sheared by airloads...not tail wheel loads. Found it
first on Howard's after strictly float operations.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Scott 3200 Tailwheel

Hi Ian

If those and the Ontario Fus 30 doubler have all been done and rivets
are still shearing even with a steel tailspring, then I'd certainly be
considering a larger pneumatic tailwheel. I think those tailpost rivets
are going to shear regardless of what tailwheel is in place if they have
not been upgraded to 3/16. Even floatplanes have reported them sheared
as I recall.

Ken





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ian !

I have the Ontario mod done and it still sheared the rivets!

WOW !!! Where were the rivets that sheared, on the vertical
side of the rudder post at the bottom ??

As Ken says, if those are shearing, a pneumatic tailwheel would
definitely be a good idea - maybe that Matco one ...??
Are your strips very rough ?? I think I've only ever bounced the
tail into the air maybe once or twice - I taxi slowly if it looks
rough .... I think there was only 60 - 80 lb on the tailwheel...

Same as Ken - don't know anyone who has used that solid chunk
of aluminum "spring" for any length of time - just looking at it
turns most folks to something else. Guess i don't like spring steel
because of the tendency to keep bouncing, adding load - and years
of aggravation with replacing them on Super Cubs, and Citabrias,
from cracking ! (this is glider towing - a landing on a (rough)
grass strip every 6 minutes or so !)

They only started shipping that solid aluminum chunk a few
years ago - guess they couldn't get the fiberglass anymore -
and, since hardly anybody has used them, they haven't had many
complaints ! ;-)

Anybody out there with lots of hours on one ????

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 10 October 2005 07:25 am, IAN DONALDSON wrote:

G'day Bob

Over 1,000 hours on the first one, NO parts replaced !
Well that is the way that things go sometimes, but as far as I am

concerned

the quality of the wheel for the conditions that we have here is really

not

good enough.

The rivets would shear - that's why we all have "Ontario Mod. #1"> - the
FUS-30 doubler (see photo in files) !
I have the Ontario mod done and it still sheared the rivets!


I would never think about using that chunk of aluminum called a

"spring"

!! At the very least, it should be ground to taper to 1/2 thickness by

the

tailwheel end ... I <only> use the original fiberglass 'springs' - they
work great, and have a very benign failure mode - they delaminate
eventually ! :-)

Well you have the benefit of experience, but I built the plane exactly as
the factory instructions and had no idea that it would be unsatisfactory.
They never mentioned that the "spring" was unsatisfactory or that there

was

a fibreglass alternative. If it causes such damage why does the factory
continue to use them?

My concern with the spring you use being too 'bouncy' is that,
taxiing on rough ground, it could be bouncing the tail up into the
air, slamming the tailwheel down too hard, and possibly twisting
sideways as well, putting much higher than normal loads on those
pins & the bushings !!! Too much bounce can be a 'bad thing',
and only a single leaf might twist too easily. :-(

Ok! I have checked the action of the spring and the wheel does not seem to
leave the ground unnecessarily. It has just a smooth fluid ride, except

for

when it hits a big rut. I guess then that no matter what you then it would
leap into the air.
Maybe another spring would counter the torsional side loads. That is
something that I will look at.

I think that some of the trouble with the wheel is that if there is any
slack at all in the central pivot pin bush, or if the central bolt is not
shimmed up so that there is no slack at all it will work enough to finally
fracture the locating pins.
Anyway I have reworked it enough to keep flying while I sort out the

Scott.

regards

Ian Donaldson

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

The alum springs make a GREAT grab handle for when you're on
floats....nothing else! They were in the 1993 kits, then they went back to
the fiberglass, then back to a heavier alum spring since the first ones
straightened right out and I have the repaired lower rudder to prove it.
Have had no issues with my 3 leaf steel "trailer" tail spring...and anyone
that has watched me land knows it gets good abuse.... as I usually land
tailwheel first draggin in for grass field landings! 10 years+ as of this
spring...400+ hours and more imporantly probably 900+ landings. I have never
sheared a rivet in the tail section. I have a small FUS-30 doubler, do NOT
have the FUS-85?? side panel extensions. I have had to rebuild the old
multistrap tail spring attach area with a custom made bath tub fitting...but
that was only 2 years ago.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 9:01 PM
Subject: Re: Scott 3200 Tailwheel

Hi Ian !

I have the Ontario mod done and it still sheared the rivets!

WOW !!! Where were the rivets that sheared, on the vertical
side of the rudder post at the bottom ??

As Ken says, if those are shearing, a pneumatic tailwheel would
definitely be a good idea - maybe that Matco one ...??
Are your strips very rough ?? I think I've only ever bounced the
tail into the air maybe once or twice - I taxi slowly if it looks
rough .... I think there was only 60 - 80 lb on the tailwheel...

Same as Ken - don't know anyone who has used that solid chunk
of aluminum "spring" for any length of time - just looking at it
turns most folks to something else. Guess i don't like spring steel
because of the tendency to keep bouncing, adding load - and years
of aggravation with replacing them on Super Cubs, and Citabrias,
from cracking ! (this is glider towing - a landing on a (rough)
grass strip every 6 minutes or so !)

They only started shipping that solid aluminum chunk a few
years ago - guess they couldn't get the fiberglass anymore -
and, since hardly anybody has used them, they haven't had many
complaints ! ;-)

Anybody out there with lots of hours on one ????

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 10 October 2005 07:25 am, IAN DONALDSON wrote:

G'day Bob

Over 1,000 hours on the first one, NO parts replaced !
Well that is the way that things go sometimes, but as far as I am

concerned

the quality of the wheel for the conditions that we have here is really

not

good enough.

The rivets would shear - that's why we all have "Ontario Mod. #1"> -

the

FUS-30 doubler (see photo in files) !
I have the Ontario mod done and it still sheared the rivets!


I would never think about using that chunk of aluminum called a

"spring"

!! At the very least, it should be ground to taper to 1/2 thickness by

the

tailwheel end ... I <only> use the original fiberglass 'springs' -

they

work great, and have a very benign failure mode - they delaminate
eventually ! :-)

Well you have the benefit of experience, but I built the plane exactly

as

the factory instructions and had no idea that it would be

unsatisfactory.

They never mentioned that the "spring" was unsatisfactory or that there

was

a fibreglass alternative. If it causes such damage why does the factory
continue to use them?

My concern with the spring you use being too 'bouncy' is that,
taxiing on rough ground, it could be bouncing the tail up into the
air, slamming the tailwheel down too hard, and possibly twisting
sideways as well, putting much higher than normal loads on those
pins & the bushings !!! Too much bounce can be a 'bad thing',
and only a single leaf might twist too easily. :-(

Ok! I have checked the action of the spring and the wheel does not seem

to

leave the ground unnecessarily. It has just a smooth fluid ride, except

for

when it hits a big rut. I guess then that no matter what you then it

would

leap into the air.
Maybe another spring would counter the torsional side loads. That is
something that I will look at.

I think that some of the trouble with the wheel is that if there is any
slack at all in the central pivot pin bush, or if the central bolt is

not

shimmed up so that there is no slack at all it will work enough to

finally

fracture the locating pins.
Anyway I have reworked it enough to keep flying while I sort out the

Scott.

regards

Ian Donaldson

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[IAN DONALDSON]

G'day Bob

WOW !!! Where were the rivets that sheared, on the vertical
side of the rudder post at the bottom ??

The rivets that were sheared are the ones that join the tail cone to the
fuselage. This join is just in front of the horizontal stabiliser. There
appears to be no other rivets that have been compronised. The tail post is
fine.

As Ken says, if those are shearing, a pneumatic tailwheel would
definitely be a good idea - maybe that Matco one ...??

Well i don't know about a Matco, but I have a Scott which I will fit.

Are your strips very rough ?? I think I've only ever bounced the tail
into the air maybe once or twice - I taxi slowly if it looks rough ....

We mostly operate from unimproved grass strips. I guess they are rough
compared to paved runways. Of course I taxy slowly when required, but the
rear end does take a pounding sometimes I guess.


I think there was only 60 - 80 lb on the tailwheel...
The weight on my tailwheel is 62 pounds so I guess that a few extra pounds
gained by fitting the larger tailwehhel wont affect the W&B too much.

Same as Ken - don't know anyone who has used that solid chunk of
aluminum "spring" for any length of time - just looking at it turns most
folks to something else.

What do the factory supply now, and what tail wheel set up do you recommend
to people that buy a kit from you?

Apart from this minor aggravation the Rebel is a fine airplane!


regards

Ian Donaldson







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[IAN DONALDSON]

G'day Wayne

The attach area is one that I would like to rebuild sometime.
Would you like to share the details of how you made your custom fitting?


regards

Ian Donaldson


I have had to rebuild the old multistrap tail spring attach area with a
custom made bath tub fitting...but

that was only 2 years ago.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Ian..would suspect U already have the 2 piece motor mount style fitting in
the tail. The early Rebels had a multi layer of alum strap that held the
bolt and no bath tub fitting attached to the Fus-49.

----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: Scott 3200 Tailwheel

G'day Wayne

The attach area is one that I would like to rebuild sometime.
Would you like to share the details of how you made your custom fitting?


regards

Ian Donaldson


I have had to rebuild the old multistrap tail spring attach area with a
custom made bath tub fitting...but

that was only 2 years ago.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ian !

The rivets that were sheared are the ones that join the tail cone to the
fuselage. This join is just in front of the horizontal stabiliser. There
appears to be no other rivets that have been compronised. The tail post is
fine.

First I've heard of problems at that position ! Do you have the
extra triangular pieces at the sides (FUS-85 ??) that extend the inside
tapered channel into the tail cone ?? We usually try to pick these
up at the front of the FUS-30 doubler, to tie the whole cone together ...
(These were added to kits quite a while ago, but not sure of the year -
if you don't have them, definitely a good addition !)

With only 62 lb. on the tail, you shouldn't be having problems ....
certainly no reason not to go to the Scott 3200 ! Maybe adding another
leaf to stop twisting might help ...

AFAIK the factory still ships that solid chunk of aluminum ! I
usually recommend people try to get a fiberglass spring somewhere,
or, at least grind or mill that 'chunk' down, to taper to about 1/2 the
thickness at the rear, so it has a little 'give' ....

Glad you're happy otherwise ! :-)
I totally agree - the Rebel really IS a great airplane !!! :-)

.....bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 10 October 2005 10:06 pm, IAN DONALDSON wrote:

G'day Bob

WOW !!! Where were the rivets that sheared, on the vertical
side of the rudder post at the bottom ??

The rivets that were sheared are the ones that join the tail cone to the
fuselage. This join is just in front of the horizontal stabiliser. There
appears to be no other rivets that have been compronised. The tail post is
fine.

As Ken says, if those are shearing, a pneumatic tailwheel would
definitely be a good idea - maybe that Matco one ...??

Well i don't know about a Matco, but I have a Scott which I will fit.

Are your strips very rough ?? I think I've only ever bounced the tail
into the air maybe once or twice - I taxi slowly if it looks rough ....

We mostly operate from unimproved grass strips. I guess they are rough
compared to paved runways. Of course I taxy slowly when required, but the
rear end does take a pounding sometimes I guess.


I think there was only 60 - 80 lb on the tailwheel...
The weight on my tailwheel is 62 pounds so I guess that a few extra pounds
gained by fitting the larger tailwehhel wont affect the W&B too much.

Same as Ken - don't know anyone who has used that solid chunk of
aluminum "spring" for any length of time - just looking at it turns most
folks to something else.

What do the factory supply now, and what tail wheel set up do you

recommend

to people that buy a kit from you?

Apart from this minor aggravation the Rebel is a fine airplane!


regards

Ian Donaldson

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[IAN DONALDSON]

G'day again

First I've heard of problems at that position ! Do you have the
extra triangular pieces at the sides (FUS-85 ??)

Sure do. The directions for fitting that was in the instructions that came
with the kit.


With only 62 lb. on the tail, you shouldn't be having problems ....
certainly no reason not to go to the Scott 3200 !
I was just doing the W&B now and there is no problems that I can see.

Maybe adding another leaf to stop twisting might help ...
That is something that I will investigate. I do notice that he spring will
twist under extreme side loads. Another spring may help.

or, at least grind or mill that 'chunk' down, to taper to about 1/2 the
thickness at the rear, so it has a little 'give' ....

I had never thought of doing that. I still have it in my shop somewhere. If
I get bored one day I will see if I can work on that a little.

I totally agree - the Rebel really IS a great airplane !!! :-)

At our local field there has been an increase in imported carbon fibre and
fibreglass aircraft. They look good, go fast, cost plenty, are impossible to
repair, but all their owners want to ride in the Rebel. We recently went
touring with a few fast glass planes, and all they did was get there earlier
only to sit at the airfield waiting for us, while we just cruised along
enjoying the view. Flying is what it is all about!


Regards

Ian Donaldson




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Drew Dalgleish]

At 09:25 AM 10/10/2005 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Ian

FWIW I'd suspect that the largest factor when considering a tailwheel
upgrade is probably the diameter of the tailwheel and whether it is
pneumatic or solid rubber. A larger diameter rolls over bumps with less
shock and a pneumatic should be able to grip the surface better as well.
I think the tailwheel is about the only thing that I haven't upgraded on
119R as I want to keep incentive there for installing floats ;)
However I have done both the later factory upgrades to the Rebel tail.
1. The triangular pieces (Fus89 ??) that span the bulkhead that the
forward stabilizer attaches to.
2. The doubler with the three 3/16 rivets through the tailpost.

If those and the Ontario Fus 30 doubler have all been done and rivets
are still shearing even with a steel tailspring, then I'd certainly be
considering a larger pneumatic tailwheel. I think those tailpost rivets
are going to shear regardless of what tailwheel is in place if they have
not been upgraded to 3/16. Even floatplanes have reported them sheared
as I recall.

I compared (measured) the flex and twist of the fibreglass tailspring to
trailer spring steel springs a few years ago. Details are probably in
the archives but I think I concluded that one medium leaf (almost 5/16"
thick) was probably in the ballpark. I installed a two leaf spring
(about 1/4" thick each) but the second leaf stops a few inches ahead of
the tailwheel. I'm sure 3 leaves would be fine too although I didn't
think the extra weight was justified with the springs that I used. But
this is just my theory. Interestingly I don't recall anyone saying that
they have any time on the aluminum "spring" and are still happy with it??

As a fall back possibility (after I fly it) I had been keeping the 8"
pneumatic Matco in mind for a possible upgrade but at this point I'm
leaning towards making a Bearhawk style tailwheel but with an 8"
pneumatic wheel (if I'm unhappy with the MAM installation).

Drew - I'm resonably sure that 119R also has a STEEL square locking pin.

Ken

Hi Ken My rebel #247 shipped with a non swivelling tailwheel. I bought the
full swivel upgrade as soon as it was offered and the locking pin is
definately brass. I assume you had to get the upgrade kit as well?
Drew





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[IAN DONALDSON]

G'day Bob

I asked a question re the fibreglass springs on the rec.ultralight group and
got the following answers.

My 1993 Buick Regal has a rear spring made of composite. Might get one of
these and cut it down. Buick has over 130,000 miles without the rear
spring
giving problems.

Chevy Astro van has composite real leaf springs. Probably get 'em nearly
free at a junk yard.

There's a Stits SA6b that has composite leaf springs off an Astro van as
gear legs. Pictures are here:
http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/1050A.htm

Unfortunately there are none of these vehicles here in Australia.

I also did a Google search and there is a manufacturer in Canada!

regards

Ian Donaldson




-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------