rudder pedals

[Ian Donaldson]

G'day Wayne


Thanks for your response.

I will leave the bolts and cotter pins as is. However I don't have the
pulled up firmly so that the nut is holding the bolt.
I think that the bolt has some movement.

They are a "little" difficult to do, but sometime soon I will give those
nuts a bit of a tighten up.

I certainly am not going to fool about with the Rebel at this point. I just
want to fly it!
It really is a nice flying airlane.

I would like to offer some words of encouragement to those still building.
Keep at it! Don't be deterred by the scope of the job at hand, and make more
time to get the construction done. It really is worth it!

Here in Australia we have a compulsory 25 hour test period during which the
aircraft is limited to 25 miles from the airport.
As you would understand I am flying as much as I can to get this done with,
and then I can go touring! I really want to sleep in the back of the Rebel!
I'm off to the airport tomorrow to fly another 2 or 3 hours. However as we
are almost in Winter the days are shortening and the weather is
unpredictable. I just hope it is OK.

Regards


Ian Donaldson

The drilled bolt and castle nut/cotter pin is the correct way to put the
flaperon hinge bolts in place. It can be fun, as you know, putting the
cotter pins in but do-able. They are fine in there as the bolt shouldn't

be

turning anyway, as the bronze bushing should be rotating on the steel

sleeve

that is held tight to the hinge by the bolt. The bolt should have no
rotation and is cotter pinned for safety, just in case the sleeve/bushing
seizes and starts the bolt rotating. In the case of the rudder pedal
turnbuckles, they are swinging up and down constantly and the bigger thing
is that your foot is kicking them all the time, which is why the cotter

pin

"bend overs" break off and the clevis pin falls out.

Keep flying Ian!! Don't go pulling anything apart now!!!

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[Jones, Michael]

hi all

my rudder pedals move alot more forward than they do back, am thinking my
cables are to short, i assume the pedals should move same distance back and
forward

mike #007



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[Ralph Baker]

Mike, while we are not flying yet there has been considerable thought
and work on this subject for our Elite. My thinking is that with the
rudder neutral, the pedals should be all in line with each other and
perpendicular to the floor. The brakes pedal portions should be such
that they are easily applied and not inadvertently operated when
operating the rudder. At full rudder deflection with brake applied
there must be shoe clearance to the firewall.

Another consideration is full aft stick availability with the seat in
the forward position for the shortest inseam pilot. This is a major
issue for my 5' 3" pilot wife.

None of the above is adequately addressed in the manual. The doublers
where the pedals mount to the floor are not adequately large to allow
pedal mounting to meet the above criteria. Your cables may be too
short. If so, some of the above may help as they are redone.
Ralph Baker



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[Jones, Michael]

hi raplh

i have done pretty much as you describe, y pedals are leaning forward little
however do to short cables, hate to make new ones , does anyone know if you
can get longer turnbuckle barrels ??

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Ralph Baker
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 10:38 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: rudder pedals


Mike, while we are not flying yet there has been considerable thought
and work on this subject for our Elite. My thinking is that with the
rudder neutral, the pedals should be all in line with each other and
perpendicular to the floor. The brakes pedal portions should be such
that they are easily applied and not inadvertently operated when
operating the rudder. At full rudder deflection with brake applied
there must be shoe clearance to the firewall.

Another consideration is full aft stick availability with the seat in
the forward position for the shortest inseam pilot. This is a major
issue for my 5' 3" pilot wife.

None of the above is adequately addressed in the manual. The doublers
where the pedals mount to the floor are not adequately large to allow
pedal mounting to meet the above criteria. Your cables may be too
short. If so, some of the above may help as they are redone.
Ralph Baker



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[Ken]

Ummm don't you mean the cables are too L O N G....
If the pedals are vertical with the rudder centered then they almost
have to move forward the same distance as rearward when deflected. If
the pedals are leaning forward then yes one will move forward more than
the other moves rearward.
Ken

Jones, Michael wrote:

hi raplh

i have done pretty much as you describe, y pedals are leaning forward little
however do to short cables, hate to make new ones , does anyone know if you
can get longer turnbuckle barrels ??

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Not necessarily....just had an Elite dropped off for a USA to Cdn inspection
and it doesn't have rudder return springs (and a host of other things)!!
Cables just go slack and the pedals tip towards the seats when you take your
feet off them...can you say FLUTTER waiting to happen...

Seriously with Mike...I don't understand how one pedal can not move the same
arc back...as the other moves forward. As long as the springs are keeping
the cables tight the distance have to be equal.

I can't stand totally vertical pedals. Sure puts a kink in your ankle
keeping you toe off the toe brake section...especially if you have the brake
cylinders mounted to the floor and not the pedal assembly.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: rudder pedals

Ummm don't you mean the cables are too L O N G....
If the pedals are vertical with the rudder centered then they almost
have to move forward the same distance as rearward when deflected. If
the pedals are leaning forward then yes one will move forward more than
the other moves rearward.
Ken

Jones, Michael wrote:

hi raplh

i have done pretty much as you describe, y pedals are leaning forward

little

however do to short cables, hate to make new ones , does anyone know if

you

can get longer turnbuckle barrels ??

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[Ken]

Yes of course you are correct.
The top of the pedal (and the fore aft distance) will move the same but
the angle that the pedal moves through will be different if the pedals
slope forward.
Ken

Seriously with Mike...I don't understand how one pedal can not move the same
arc back...as the other moves forward. As long as the springs are keeping
the cables tight the distance have to be equal.

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[mbetti]

Hi,
Is it normal to have a HT4 tang with an AN3 bolt in it? That's how it's spelled out in the pedal assembly.
Mike Betti
771E



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[Alan Hepburn]

I got rid of the tangs and used an HM-3 rod end baring threaded in to a
10-32 turnbuckle with a jam nut to stop it from turning. That way, you can
adjust things, and the rod ends permit alignment with the cable.

Al





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[Mike Betti]

Elite builders:
Anybody have a dimension from the firewall to the delrin blocks the rudder pedal assembly pivots on for both sides? I think I got it figured out but hate to mount them and then find out I can't get full rudder with out hitting the firewall afterward.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Alan Hepburn]

Aren't the instructions really helpful in this area?! I can't give you the
measurement, because the airplane is away just now, but just be sure to
allow for the full rudder travel, the slope of the firewall, and full brake
application.

I haven't heard you say anything about the lower pivot for the master
cylinders. I hope you're not mounting them to the pedal attach point. They
have to be mounted to pivot brackets secured to the floor. I think there's
a factory mod for this, but I made up my own. However, the placement of
that lower pivot point is pretty critical. If you get it wrong, the pedals
can go over centre and lock at almost full travel one way, which would spoil
your day. If I was doing it again, I'd get a set of Cessna 150 pedals and
abandon the Murphy design.

Al





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[steve whitenect]

Al
Is there really a problem with the position of the bottom mount on the
peddles? I used the setup that came with the kit except I used a very short
threaded end on the piston rod. I've tried it dry of course and my little
size 11 foots don't have any interference with the upper bar thru full
travel of the rudder.

Steve W. #637Rl





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[mbetti]

I been reading about the master cylinders here and wanted to see what happens when the pedals are mounted and what every one is talking about. I looked at some of your pics and thought you didn't have them floor mounted.
Thanks,
Mike

On Wed, 28 Dec 2005 21:42:51 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Aren't the instructions really helpful in this area?! I can't give you the
measurement, because the airplane is away just now, but just be sure to
allow for the full rudder travel, the slope of the firewall, and full brake
application.

I haven't heard you say anything about the lower pivot for the master
cylinders. I hope you're not mounting them to the pedal attach point. They
have to be mounted to pivot brackets secured to the floor. I think there's
a factory mod for this, but I made up my own. However, the placement of
that lower pivot point is pretty critical. If you get it wrong, the pedals
can go over centre and lock at almost full travel one way, which would spoil
your day. If I was doing it again, I'd get a set of Cessna 150 pedals and
abandon the Murphy design.

Al





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[Ralph Baker]

Mike, the rudder pedal location is one of the most frustrating build items I've found. I do recommend mounting the lower master cylinder attachment to the floor. What you are trying to achieve is a linkage arrangement so that the brake pedals move with the rudder pedals as they move fore and aft so that you can apply the brake when needed but not inadvertantly. If they are not, the brake pedals move fore and aft with respect to the rudder pedals as the rudder is operated.

I also found that the MAM supplied dimensions for the motor mount / floor doubler where the pedals mount is not sufficiently large to mount the delrin blocks where I needed them and accommodate the lower brake cylinder mounts. The new doublers and brake cylinder mounts are still in fabrication so can't supply dimensions. One thing I am considering is a complete secondary floor with the pedals and brakes mounted on the bench and then the assembly with stiffeners installed as a unit. This would have the advantages of stiffening the flimsy floor as well as easier assembly on the bench.

Do measure carefully as the rework is a real pain!
Ralph Baker



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[Ken]

As long as you can apply full rudder and full brake at the same time in
the same direction. Some folks found that their foot hit the firewall
first or that they couldn't tilt their foot far enough forward with the
factory set up. A gentleman who had ground looped brought this to my
attention and said his foot was tilted so far forward that he couldn't
apply any brake pressure.

For the delrin torque tube bearings, you can always try "Crown" silicone
lubricant as recommended by Wayne in the archives. He cautions not to
use another brand.

Ken


steve whitenect wrote:

Al
Is there really a problem with the position of the bottom mount on the
peddles? I used the setup that came with the kit except I used a very short
threaded end on the piston rod. I've tried it dry of course and my little
size 11 foots don't have any interference with the upper bar thru full
travel of the rudder.

Steve W. #637Rl

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