Rebel Tail wheel

[Ted Waltman]

A number of us, currently led by Dale Fultz, are working on a retro fit
design based off of that of the C-185. Drawings/engineering work is in
progress. No preliminary numbers (as far as cost) are available yet.

Questions for the list:

- How many folks might be interested in such a design

- Of the interested folks, how many already have the 1" stinger

- What's the interest level in converting to the 1.125" stinger as found
in new model C-185's?

Regarding the existing bracket assembly, here's another item that Kevin
at MAM told me about. Of course there are two bolts currently through
the [solid] bracket and stinger. Someone has changed that bracket,
putting a narrow slot in the middle of it. The thought here is that
when one tightens the bolts, one has the added benefit of that slotted
bracket also having a clamping effect on the stinger. Part of the
overall problem with the bracket is that rotational stress, over time,
causes the bracket-attach holes in the stinger to elongate.

Ted Waltman
ted@i1ci.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bscheube@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:38 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel


Hello everyone,

It seems that there is a consensus that there is a problem with the
tailwheel
setup on the moose/rebel and that MAM doesn't think so?? I am not that
far
into the build yet to have a valid opinion.
But following the posts here I was wondering if we put up a group
effort
calling or e-mailing MAM that something might get done to resolve this
issue? I would just as soon see this issue resolved one way or the
other by the time
I get to that point in my build. I know this doesn't help the people
that are
past this point and going to have to do a retro fit. (either way I would
like
to know if I need to make the purchase and spend another $1200.00 or
have a
new design from MAM).
Just my thought, let me know what you all think??????

Thanks.
Bob moose/191






-> > Hi Garry,
-> >
-> > I don't have any personal experience with the 2000. If it is a
-> > smaller
version of the 3200 I would guess it's a good tail wheel. I think it
might be
a little to light for a Rebel though if you plan to use it off pavement.
-> >
-> > Bruce
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 9:19 PM
-> > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> >
-> > Bruce,
-> >
-> > I take it then that your rational is to go with the Scott for
-> > saftey reasons. What's wrong with the 2000?
-> >
-> > On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 20:55 -0400, Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > Garry,
-> > >
-> > > The Scott tail wheel will not break loss and caster on you when
-> > > you
give the rudder a boot while your landing in a cross wind some day,
making you
a weather vane and sending you into a ground loop that will cost you a
lot
more than the price of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > I have seen several planes wrecked by a ground loop but never one

-> > > with
a Scott tail wheel. Ever! I have yet to meet a high time experienced
tail
wheel pilot who does not endorse the virtues of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > It made all the difference in the handling of my Kitfox and I
-> > > have
never flown My Rebel without one. I have witness the destruction of two
Kitfox
with other types of tail wheels. I'm a believer. So much so I "gave
away" the
Maule I removed from the Kitfox to another Kitfox driver who insisted I
sell
it to him. didn't have the heart to ask him for money. I tried to
convince
him to buy the Scott.
-> > >
-> > > For what it's worth.
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > Bruce
-> > >
-> > > -----Original Message-----
-> > > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 12:45 AM
-> > > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> > >
-> > > It seems to me that most of the group express a preference for
-> > > Scott tailwheels - in spite of the rapidly rising and ridiculous
-> > > price for the 3200. It weighs 8# maybe and costs pretty close to
-> > > $200 Canadian per pound. Thats not as much as gold but getting
-> > > there.
-> > >
-> > > There are two reasons given for the preference for Scott.
-> > > Primarily people point to it and say - it won't give you a
-> > > tailwheel induced ground loop if you maintain it properly. The
-> > > second thing is the pneumatic tire on the 3200 which all who have

-> > > it delight in. Its pretty hard to get a good handle on which
-> > > motive predominates but the motive should be clear when buying
-> > > precious metal.
-> > >
-> > > For safety the Scott is said to be superior - go with the 2000. I

-> > > just got one used but in good condition on ebay for about $200
-> > > Canadian. I'm not sure about the safety claim but needed the
-> > > tailwheel anyway so thats the way I went.
-> > >
-> > > For comfort, any pneumatic will do. You don't need the gold one.
-> > > Which motive are you driven by? Both? Hmmm! Am I missing
-> > > something here?
-> > >
-> > > Garry
-> > >
-> > > On Sun, 2005-07-08 at 23:08 -0400, Ken wrote:
-> > > > For a Rebel, I thought I'd try a pneumatic Matco at about
-> > > > US$200. if
I'm
-> > > > not happy with the MAM unit.
-> > > > We know the Scott works well but it seems a bit pricey! Ken
-> > > >
-> > > > Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > >
-> > > > >Ian,
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Take the MAM tail wheel off and throw it away before you
-> > > > >destroy
your whole planewith it! Or give it to your worst enemey. Then buy a
Scott
3200. It will be the best insurance policy you ever bought. That's my
opinion
and the same advice I recieved from a very experienced pilot who would
not fly
in my first project (Kitfox with a Maule tail wheel) until I changed it.
He
was right.
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Bruce
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > > --
-> > > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > > > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > > > Subscription services located at:
-> > > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > >
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > ________________________________________
-> > > PeoplePC Online
-> > > A better way to Internet
-> > > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > ________________________________________
-> > PeoplePC Online
-> > A better way to Internet
-> > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Reed Britt Civ 309 MXSG/M]

I am interested in the mod - I asked advice from some friends that are
always upgrading their Helio http://www.etigerrr.com/Skypark/jay_jensen.htm
(look at their website and tell me if you trust them) and they suggested
the elastomeric pucks somehow integrated to suck up some of the shock - I
would put it in autocad 3D for you (wish I had Autocad Inventor) -

I have the 1" but not yet installed

Definitely interested in the 1 1/8" stringer -

Are you only dealing with the stringer and not the change to the Scott?

Thanks - Britt SR194



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Ted
Waltman
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:57 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel tail wheel

A number of us, currently led by Dale Fultz, are working on a retro fit
design based off of that of the C-185. Drawings/engineering work is in
progress. No preliminary numbers (as far as cost) are available yet.

Questions for the list:

- How many folks might be interested in such a design

- Of the interested folks, how many already have the 1" stinger

- What's the interest level in converting to the 1.125" stinger as found
in new model C-185's?

Regarding the existing bracket assembly, here's another item that Kevin
at MAM told me about. Of course there are two bolts currently through
the [solid] bracket and stinger. Someone has changed that bracket,
putting a narrow slot in the middle of it. The thought here is that
when one tightens the bolts, one has the added benefit of that slotted
bracket also having a clamping effect on the stinger. Part of the
overall problem with the bracket is that rotational stress, over time,
causes the bracket-attach holes in the stinger to elongate.

Ted Waltman
ted@i1ci.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bscheube@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:38 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel


Hello everyone,

It seems that there is a consensus that there is a problem with the
tailwheel
setup on the moose/rebel and that MAM doesn't think so?? I am not that
far
into the build yet to have a valid opinion.
But following the posts here I was wondering if we put up a group
effort
calling or e-mailing MAM that something might get done to resolve this
issue? I would just as soon see this issue resolved one way or the
other by the time
I get to that point in my build. I know this doesn't help the people
that are
past this point and going to have to do a retro fit. (either way I would
like
to know if I need to make the purchase and spend another $1200.00 or
have a
new design from MAM).
Just my thought, let me know what you all think??????

Thanks.
Bob moose/191






-> > Hi Garry,
-> >
-> > I don't have any personal experience with the 2000. If it is a
-> > smaller
version of the 3200 I would guess it's a good tail wheel. I think it
might be
a little to light for a Rebel though if you plan to use it off pavement.
-> >
-> > Bruce
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 9:19 PM
-> > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> >
-> > Bruce,
-> >
-> > I take it then that your rational is to go with the Scott for
-> > saftey reasons. What's wrong with the 2000?
-> >
-> > On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 20:55 -0400, Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > Garry,
-> > >
-> > > The Scott tail wheel will not break loss and caster on you when
-> > > you
give the rudder a boot while your landing in a cross wind some day,
making you
a weather vane and sending you into a ground loop that will cost you a
lot
more than the price of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > I have seen several planes wrecked by a ground loop but never one

-> > > with
a Scott tail wheel. Ever! I have yet to meet a high time experienced
tail
wheel pilot who does not endorse the virtues of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > It made all the difference in the handling of my Kitfox and I
-> > > have
never flown My Rebel without one. I have witness the destruction of two
Kitfox
with other types of tail wheels. I'm a believer. So much so I "gave
away" the
Maule I removed from the Kitfox to another Kitfox driver who insisted I
sell
it to him. didn't have the heart to ask him for money. I tried to
convince
him to buy the Scott.
-> > >
-> > > For what it's worth.
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > Bruce
-> > >
-> > > -----Original Message-----
-> > > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 12:45 AM
-> > > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> > >
-> > > It seems to me that most of the group express a preference for
-> > > Scott tailwheels - in spite of the rapidly rising and ridiculous
-> > > price for the 3200. It weighs 8# maybe and costs pretty close to
-> > > $200 Canadian per pound. Thats not as much as gold but getting
-> > > there.
-> > >
-> > > There are two reasons given for the preference for Scott.
-> > > Primarily people point to it and say - it won't give you a
-> > > tailwheel induced ground loop if you maintain it properly. The
-> > > second thing is the pneumatic tire on the 3200 which all who have

-> > > it delight in. Its pretty hard to get a good handle on which
-> > > motive predominates but the motive should be clear when buying
-> > > precious metal.
-> > >
-> > > For safety the Scott is said to be superior - go with the 2000. I

-> > > just got one used but in good condition on ebay for about $200
-> > > Canadian. I'm not sure about the safety claim but needed the
-> > > tailwheel anyway so thats the way I went.
-> > >
-> > > For comfort, any pneumatic will do. You don't need the gold one.
-> > > Which motive are you driven by? Both? Hmmm! Am I missing
-> > > something here?
-> > >
-> > > Garry
-> > >
-> > > On Sun, 2005-07-08 at 23:08 -0400, Ken wrote:
-> > > > For a Rebel, I thought I'd try a pneumatic Matco at about
-> > > > US$200. if
I'm
-> > > > not happy with the MAM unit.
-> > > > We know the Scott works well but it seems a bit pricey! Ken
-> > > >
-> > > > Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > >
-> > > > >Ian,
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Take the MAM tail wheel off and throw it away before you
-> > > > >destroy
your whole planewith it! Or give it to your worst enemey. Then buy a
Scott
3200. It will be the best insurance policy you ever bought. That's my
opinion
and the same advice I recieved from a very experienced pilot who would
not fly
in my first project (Kitfox with a Maule tail wheel) until I changed it.
He
was right.
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Bruce
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > > --
-> > > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > > > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > > > Subscription services located at:
-> > > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > >
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > ________________________________________
-> > > PeoplePC Online
-> > > A better way to Internet
-> > > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > ________________________________________
-> > PeoplePC Online
-> > A better way to Internet
-> > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Ted Waltman]

At this point the most pressing issue seems to be that of the poor
(rigid attachment) design of the stinger. The fact that others (myself
included) also want to switch to another tailwheel assembly (e.g. Scott,
AK Bushwheel, XPMODS) is of course related.

I'll do some calling / research later today regarding whether Scott, AK
Bushwheel and XPMODs have assemblies for either 1" or 1.125" stingers.
My sense is if we can design the stinger to be compatible with the
widest variety of tailwheel assemblies we will meet the majority of
folks desires (as far as spare parts availability, favorite
manufacturer, etc).

Ted

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Reed Britt Civ 309 MXSG/MXRIE
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:00 AM
To: 'rebel-builders@dcsol.com'
Subject: RE: Rebel tail wheel


I am interested in the mod - I asked advice from some friends that are
always upgrading their Helio
http://www.etigerrr.com/Skypark/jay_jensen.htm
(look at their website and tell me if you trust them) and they
suggested the elastomeric pucks somehow integrated to suck up some of
the shock - I would put it in autocad 3D for you (wish I had Autocad
Inventor) -

I have the 1" but not yet installed

Definitely interested in the 1 1/8" stringer -

Are you only dealing with the stringer and not the change to the Scott?

Thanks - Britt SR194



-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ted Waltman
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:57 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Rebel tail wheel

A number of us, currently led by Dale Fultz, are working on a retro fit
design based off of that of the C-185. Drawings/engineering work is in
progress. No preliminary numbers (as far as cost) are available yet.

Questions for the list:

- How many folks might be interested in such a design

- Of the interested folks, how many already have the 1" stinger

- What's the interest level in converting to the 1.125" stinger as found
in new model C-185's?

Regarding the existing bracket assembly, here's another item that Kevin
at MAM told me about. Of course there are two bolts currently through
the [solid] bracket and stinger. Someone has changed that bracket,
putting a narrow slot in the middle of it. The thought here is that
when one tightens the bolts, one has the added benefit of that slotted
bracket also having a clamping effect on the stinger. Part of the
overall problem with the bracket is that rotational stress, over time,
causes the bracket-attach holes in the stinger to elongate.

Ted Waltman
ted@i1ci.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
bscheube@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:38 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel


Hello everyone,

It seems that there is a consensus that there is a problem with the
tailwheel
setup on the moose/rebel and that MAM doesn't think so?? I am not that
far
into the build yet to have a valid opinion.
But following the posts here I was wondering if we put up a group
effort
calling or e-mailing MAM that something might get done to resolve this
issue? I would just as soon see this issue resolved one way or the
other by the time
I get to that point in my build. I know this doesn't help the people
that are
past this point and going to have to do a retro fit. (either way I would
like
to know if I need to make the purchase and spend another $1200.00 or
have a
new design from MAM).
Just my thought, let me know what you all think??????

Thanks.
Bob moose/191






-> > Hi Garry,
-> >
-> > I don't have any personal experience with the 2000. If it is a
-> > smaller
version of the 3200 I would guess it's a good tail wheel. I think it
might be
a little to light for a Rebel though if you plan to use it off pavement.
-> >
-> > Bruce
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 9:19 PM
-> > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> >
-> > Bruce,
-> >
-> > I take it then that your rational is to go with the Scott for
-> > saftey reasons. What's wrong with the 2000?
-> >
-> > On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 20:55 -0400, Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > Garry,
-> > >
-> > > The Scott tail wheel will not break loss and caster on you when
-> > > you
give the rudder a boot while your landing in a cross wind some day,
making you
a weather vane and sending you into a ground loop that will cost you a
lot
more than the price of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > I have seen several planes wrecked by a ground loop but never one

-> > > with
a Scott tail wheel. Ever! I have yet to meet a high time experienced
tail
wheel pilot who does not endorse the virtues of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > It made all the difference in the handling of my Kitfox and I
-> > > have
never flown My Rebel without one. I have witness the destruction of two
Kitfox
with other types of tail wheels. I'm a believer. So much so I "gave
away" the
Maule I removed from the Kitfox to another Kitfox driver who insisted I
sell
it to him. didn't have the heart to ask him for money. I tried to
convince
him to buy the Scott.
-> > >
-> > > For what it's worth.
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > Bruce
-> > >
-> > > -----Original Message-----
-> > > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 12:45 AM
-> > > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> > >
-> > > It seems to me that most of the group express a preference for
-> > > Scott tailwheels - in spite of the rapidly rising and ridiculous
-> > > price for the 3200. It weighs 8# maybe and costs pretty close to
-> > > $200 Canadian per pound. Thats not as much as gold but getting
-> > > there.
-> > >
-> > > There are two reasons given for the preference for Scott.
-> > > Primarily people point to it and say - it won't give you a
-> > > tailwheel induced ground loop if you maintain it properly. The
-> > > second thing is the pneumatic tire on the 3200 which all who have

-> > > it delight in. Its pretty hard to get a good handle on which
-> > > motive predominates but the motive should be clear when buying
-> > > precious metal.
-> > >
-> > > For safety the Scott is said to be superior - go with the 2000. I

-> > > just got one used but in good condition on ebay for about $200
-> > > Canadian. I'm not sure about the safety claim but needed the
-> > > tailwheel anyway so thats the way I went.
-> > >
-> > > For comfort, any pneumatic will do. You don't need the gold one.
-> > > Which motive are you driven by? Both? Hmmm! Am I missing
-> > > something here?
-> > >
-> > > Garry
-> > >
-> > > On Sun, 2005-07-08 at 23:08 -0400, Ken wrote:
-> > > > For a Rebel, I thought I'd try a pneumatic Matco at about
-> > > > US$200. if
I'm
-> > > > not happy with the MAM unit.
-> > > > We know the Scott works well but it seems a bit pricey! Ken
-> > > >
-> > > > Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > >
-> > > > >Ian,
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Take the MAM tail wheel off and throw it away before you
-> > > > >destroy
your whole planewith it! Or give it to your worst enemey. Then buy a
Scott
3200. It will be the best insurance policy you ever bought. That's my
opinion
and the same advice I recieved from a very experienced pilot who would
not fly
in my first project (Kitfox with a Maule tail wheel) until I changed it.
He
was right.
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Bruce
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > > --
-> > > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > > > username "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services
-> > > > located at:
-> > > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > >
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > ________________________________________
-> > > PeoplePC Online
-> > > A better way to Internet
-> > > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > ________________________________________
-> > PeoplePC Online
-> > A better way to Internet
-> > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Ken]

FWIW my ASS catalogue says the Scott 2000 has a 6" solid tire, costs
more than a 3200, and is only 2 lbs lighter.
The 3200 has a 8" pneumatic tire but they want another $100 just for the
adapter to fit a 1.5" Rebel tailspring...
Ken

wrightdg wrote:

I'll give it a go and see how I make out. Its generally used on aircraft
with about the same gross as a Rebel on wheels so it should be okay.

On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 23:46 -0400, Bruce Georgen wrote:

Hi Garry,

I don't have any personal experience with the 2000. If it is a smaller version of the 3200 I would guess it's a good tail wheel. I think it might be a little to light for a Rebel though if you plan to use it off pavement.

Bruce

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Barnhart]

I'm interested in the modifications for the tailcone/tailwheel.

Barny
SR 103 MGDQ 20bt


----- Original Message -----
From: "Reed Britt Civ 309 MXSG/MXRIE" <Britt.REED@HILL.af.mil>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Rebel tail wheel

I am interested in the mod - I asked advice from some friends that are
always upgrading their Helio

http://www.etigerrr.com/Skypark/jay_jensen.htm

(look at their website and tell me if you trust them) and they suggested
the elastomeric pucks somehow integrated to suck up some of the shock - I
would put it in autocad 3D for you (wish I had Autocad Inventor) -

I have the 1" but not yet installed

Definitely interested in the 1 1/8" stringer -

Are you only dealing with the stringer and not the change to the Scott?

Thanks - Britt SR194


-> > Hi Garry,
-> >
-> > I don't have any personal experience with the 2000. If it is a
-> > smaller
version of the 3200 I would guess it's a good tail wheel. I think it
might be
a little to light for a Rebel though if you plan to use it off pavement.
-> >
-> > Bruce
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 9:19 PM
-> > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> >
-> > Bruce,
-> >
-> > I take it then that your rational is to go with the Scott for
-> > saftey reasons. What's wrong with the 2000?
-> >
-> > On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 20:55 -0400, Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > Garry,
-> > >
-> > > The Scott tail wheel will not break loss and caster on you when
-> > > you
give the rudder a boot while your landing in a cross wind some day,
making you
a weather vane and sending you into a ground loop that will cost you a
lot
more than the price of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > I have seen several planes wrecked by a ground loop but never one

-> > > with
a Scott tail wheel. Ever! I have yet to meet a high time experienced
tail
wheel pilot who does not endorse the virtues of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > It made all the difference in the handling of my Kitfox and I
-> > > have
never flown My Rebel without one. I have witness the destruction of two
Kitfox
with other types of tail wheels. I'm a believer. So much so I "gave
away" the
Maule I removed from the Kitfox to another Kitfox driver who insisted I
sell
it to him. didn't have the heart to ask him for money. I tried to
convince
him to buy the Scott.
-> > >
-> > > For what it's worth.
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > Bruce
-> > >
-> > > -----Original Message-----
-> > > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 12:45 AM
-> > > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> > >
-> > > It seems to me that most of the group express a preference for
-> > > Scott tailwheels - in spite of the rapidly rising and ridiculous
-> > > price for the 3200. It weighs 8# maybe and costs pretty close to
-> > > $200 Canadian per pound. Thats not as much as gold but getting
-> > > there.
-> > >
-> > > There are two reasons given for the preference for Scott.
-> > > Primarily people point to it and say - it won't give you a
-> > > tailwheel induced ground loop if you maintain it properly. The
-> > > second thing is the pneumatic tire on the 3200 which all who have

-> > > it delight in. Its pretty hard to get a good handle on which
-> > > motive predominates but the motive should be clear when buying
-> > > precious metal.
-> > >
-> > > For safety the Scott is said to be superior - go with the 2000. I

-> > > just got one used but in good condition on ebay for about $200
-> > > Canadian. I'm not sure about the safety claim but needed the
-> > > tailwheel anyway so thats the way I went.
-> > >
-> > > For comfort, any pneumatic will do. You don't need the gold one.
-> > > Which motive are you driven by? Both? Hmmm! Am I missing
-> > > something here?
-> > >
-> > > Garry
-> > >
-> > > On Sun, 2005-07-08 at 23:08 -0400, Ken wrote:
-> > > > For a Rebel, I thought I'd try a pneumatic Matco at about
-> > > > US$200. if
I'm
-> > > > not happy with the MAM unit.
-> > > > We know the Scott works well but it seems a bit pricey! Ken
-> > > >
-> > > > Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > >
-> > > > >Ian,
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Take the MAM tail wheel off and throw it away before you
-> > > > >destroy
your whole planewith it! Or give it to your worst enemey. Then buy a
Scott
3200. It will be the best insurance policy you ever bought. That's my
opinion
and the same advice I recieved from a very experienced pilot who would
not fly
in my first project (Kitfox with a Maule tail wheel) until I changed it.
He
was right.
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Bruce
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > > --
-> > > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > > > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > > > Subscription services located at:
-> > > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > >
-----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > ________________________________________
-> > > PeoplePC Online
-> > > A better way to Internet
-> > > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > ________________________________________
-> > PeoplePC Online
-> > A better way to Internet
-> > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login username
-> > "rebel" password "builder" Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------






_____________________________________________________
This message scanned for viruses by CoreComm

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Jean Poirier]

I am now neervous about that tail wheel (Rebel). I have no time yet on
tail wheel landing and I do no like the idea to be not completely condifent
in my aircraft! We should ask mam

Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: <bscheube@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

Hello everyone,

It seems that there is a consensus that there is a problem with the
tailwheel
setup on the moose/rebel and that MAM doesn't think so?? I am not that far
into the build yet to have a valid opinion.
But following the posts here I was wondering if we put up a group effort
calling or e-mailing MAM that something might get done to resolve this
issue?
I would just as soon see this issue resolved one way or the other by the
time
I get to that point in my build. I know this doesn't help the people that
are
past this point and going to have to do a retro fit. (either way I would
like
to know if I need to make the purchase and spend another $1200.00 or have
a
new design from MAM).
Just my thought, let me know what you all think??????

Thanks.
Bob moose/191






-> > Hi Garry,
-> >
-> > I don't have any personal experience with the 2000. If it is a
smaller
version of the 3200 I would guess it's a good tail wheel. I think it might
be
a little to light for a Rebel though if you plan to use it off pavement.
-> >
-> > Bruce
-> >
-> > -----Original Message-----
-> > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 9:19 PM
-> > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> >
-> > Bruce,
-> >
-> > I take it then that your rational is to go with the Scott for saftey
-> > reasons. What's wrong with the 2000?
-> >
-> > On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 20:55 -0400, Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > Garry,
-> > >
-> > > The Scott tail wheel will not break loss and caster on you when you
give the rudder a boot while your landing in a cross wind some day, making
you
a weather vane and sending you into a ground loop that will cost you a lot
more than the price of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > I have seen several planes wrecked by a ground loop but never one
with
a Scott tail wheel. Ever! I have yet to meet a high time experienced tail
wheel pilot who does not endorse the virtues of the Scott tail wheel.
-> > >
-> > > It made all the difference in the handling of my Kitfox and I have
never flown My Rebel without one. I have witness the destruction of two
Kitfox
with other types of tail wheels. I'm a believer. So much so I "gave away"
the
Maule I removed from the Kitfox to another Kitfox driver who insisted I
sell
it to him. didn't have the heart to ask him for money. I tried to
convince
him to buy the Scott.
-> > >
-> > > For what it's worth.
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > Bruce
-> > >
-> > > -----Original Message-----
-> > > From: wrightdg <wrightdg@davincibb.net>
-> > > Sent: Aug 8, 2005 12:45 AM
-> > > To: rebel builders <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > > Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel
-> > >
-> > > It seems to me that most of the group express a preference for
Scott
-> > > tailwheels - in spite of the rapidly rising and ridiculous price
for the
-> > > 3200. It weighs 8# maybe and costs pretty close to $200 Canadian
per
-> > > pound. Thats not as much as gold but getting there.
-> > >
-> > > There are two reasons given for the preference for Scott. Primarily
-> > > people point to it and say - it won't give you a tailwheel induced
-> > > ground loop if you maintain it properly. The second thing is the
-> > > pneumatic tire on the 3200 which all who have it delight in. Its
pretty
-> > > hard to get a good handle on which motive predominates but the
motive
-> > > should be clear when buying precious metal.
-> > >
-> > > For safety the Scott is said to be superior - go with the 2000. I
just
-> > > got one used but in good condition on ebay for about $200 Canadian.
I'm
-> > > not sure about the safety claim but needed the tailwheel anyway so
thats
-> > > the way I went.
-> > >
-> > > For comfort, any pneumatic will do. You don't need the gold one.
Which
-> > > motive are you driven by? Both? Hmmm! Am I missing something here?
-> > >
-> > > Garry
-> > >
-> > > On Sun, 2005-07-08 at 23:08 -0400, Ken wrote:
-> > > > For a Rebel, I thought I'd try a pneumatic Matco at about US$200.
if
I'm
-> > > > not happy with the MAM unit.
-> > > > We know the Scott works well but it seems a bit pricey!
-> > > > Ken
-> > > >
-> > > > Bruce Georgen wrote:
-> > > >
-> > > > >Ian,
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Take the MAM tail wheel off and throw it away before you destroy
your whole planewith it! Or give it to your worst enemey. Then buy a Scott
3200. It will be the best insurance policy you ever bought. That's my
opinion
and the same advice I recieved from a very experienced pilot who would not
fly
in my first project (Kitfox with a Maule tail wheel) until I changed it.
He
was right.
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > > >Bruce
-> > > > >
-> > > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > > > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > > > Subscription services located at:
-> > > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > > Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > ________________________________________
-> > > PeoplePC Online
-> > > A better way to Internet
-> > > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > > Subscription services located at:
-> > > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > ________________________________________
-> > PeoplePC Online
-> > A better way to Internet
-> > http://www.peoplepc.com
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> > List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
-> > username "rebel" password "builder"
-> > Subscription services located at:
-> > https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
-> > List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->





-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Phil Stubley]

Ian and group,

The fix I have addresses the loose connection of the two FLIMSY rollpins
trying to do a mansize job. I replaced this connection with a keyway across
the top of the shaft. Seems to work so far (25+Hrs).

The second issue with the MAM wheel,( and others which alow you to do a
ground loop) seems to be the inadvertent free wheeling tendency.

I fixed that by permanently locking the swivel. Well not quite permamently,
but I disconnected the rudder from the swivel. Now I have to manually, on
location, pull a pin to release the swivel. Only time I need to swivel is
for ground handling anyway, so works fine in my estimation.

The third issue is the strength of the stinger and attachment. I have no
comment on that, as I haven't seen any evidence of damage there. Maybe it's
because I can't get my wheel down on landing anyway, so don't have any hard
tailwheel episodes. Only once when I had a strong crosswind and used no
flaps, I got the tail down with the mains three feet up (well, it seemed
that high). Normally with 15* flaps the Rebel is still flat, not tail down
when I finally hit. Just me I guess. I get a lot of landing practise that
way, mostly double landings <:-))

I didn't put th drawing on the site because I haven't figured how to do that
from here. I can attach it, but the site doesn't accept attachmnents. If
someone wants it I will resend it direct, and then they can put it on the
site. Any takers?

Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

G'day Phil

I have had your sketch on my workbench since you sent it to me waiting for
the time to do the mod on mine. Until now I did not have the need to take
the wheel off, but this week I am going to take the whole thing to a

friend

who has the necessary machines and we will do your mods.

However the main problem now, is that the centre spindle that fits into

the

fork has come loose. It is secured by two 1/8" roll pins that have either
broken or pulled out. I have not yet looked to see exactly what has

happened

but we will work out a fix.


I agree with you in that the rest of the mechanism is really not as good

as

it could be. I have not seen a Scott tailwheel but from what I have been
told they are much stronger.

I will let you know how the repairs come out.


Regards


Ian

I agree the Murphy wheel as sent is garbage. Easiest is to get a Scott

as

most have done, but I guess I'm stubborn.

If you don't understand from the sketch, or would like me to resend it,
let
me know.

Phil.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Dale Kilbey]

Hi Phil
I would appreciate a copy of the drawing. Thanks.
Dale
dale.kilbey@sympatico.ca



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[rickhm]

As would I, perhaps it could be posted on the web site.

Rick Muller
SR70
rickhm@comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------

Hi Phil
I would appreciate a copy of the drawing. Thanks.
Dale
dale.kilbey@sympatico.ca



-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Robert and Olga Johnson]

I have been following this thread on the Rebel tail wheels and feel I just
have to add my two cents worth. I built Rebel 652 (O320) just like the
manual. Before I test flew it ( my first time in the left seat of a Rebel) I
had approx two hours in a PA 12. The Rebel was so much easier to handle on
the ground then the PA. I flew it for three years (300 hrs) and never ever
came close to a ground loop experience. Almost put her on her nose once
getting a little to aggressive with the brakes, but that's another story -
never be in a hurry to exit a runway. A final inspection and disassembly of
the tail wheel with the new owner showed no signs of wear on either the main
pin or the locking mechanism. I was quite satisfied with the Mam tail wheel
and will use it again on my next Rebel. I did have it mounted on a 2 leaf
modified trailer spring. (Canadian tire - Aircraft division) -Bob Johnson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Poirier" <oxyport@globetrotter.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

I am now neervous about that tail wheel (Rebel). I have no time yet on
tail wheel landing and I do no like the idea to be not completely
condifent
in my aircraft! We should ask mam

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Ken, a Rebel tail spring is 1 3/4" wide. Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

FWIW my ASS catalogue says the Scott 2000 has a 6" solid tire, costs
more than a 3200, and is only 2 lbs lighter.
The 3200 has a 8" pneumatic tire but they want another $100 just for the
adapter to fit a 1.5" Rebel tailspring...
Ken

wrightdg wrote:

I'll give it a go and see how I make out. Its generally used on aircraft
with about the same gross as a Rebel on wheels so it should be okay.

On Mon, 2005-08-08 at 23:46 -0400, Bruce Georgen wrote:

Hi Garry,

I don't have any personal experience with the 2000. If it is a smaller

version of the 3200 I would guess it's a good tail wheel. I think it might
be a little to light for a Rebel though if you plan to use it off pavement.

Bruce

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Gary Gustafson]

Today I examined my tail wheel on my Murphy Rebel #242 and find that
there is no groove that temporary locks the tailwheel in alignment
with the rudder. My tail wheel is on a fiberglass leaf spring and is
completely freewheeling. I am about 90% complete with my plane (and
50% to go)so I am starting to take notice of some of the flying issues.

I like the idea of locking the tailwheel with a pin. Where exactly did
you pin it? Sounds like that will assist greatly in preventing ground
loops. However, I do not fully understand the "two flimsy rollpins" being
replaced with a keyway across the top of the shaft. Has someone posted
pictures, or could Phil Stubley explain a bit more on these fixes.

Keep up the interesting and informative chatter. Us novices pick up a
Number of hints and things to watch for. Thanks

Gary Gustafson.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Phil
Stubley
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

Ian and group,

The fix I have addresses the loose connection of the two FLIMSY rollpins
trying to do a mansize job. I replaced this connection with a keyway across
the top of the shaft. Seems to work so far (25+Hrs).

The second issue with the MAM wheel,( and others which alow you to do a
ground loop) seems to be the inadvertent free wheeling tendency.

I fixed that by permanently locking the swivel. Well not quite permamently,
but I disconnected the rudder from the swivel. Now I have to manually, on
location, pull a pin to release the swivel. Only time I need to swivel is
for ground handling anyway, so works fine in my estimation.

The third issue is the strength of the stinger and attachment. I have no
comment on that, as I haven't seen any evidence of damage there. Maybe it's
because I can't get my wheel down on landing anyway, so don't have any hard
tailwheel episodes. Only once when I had a strong crosswind and used no
flaps, I got the tail down with the mains three feet up (well, it seemed
that high). Normally with 15* flaps the Rebel is still flat, not tail down
when I finally hit. Just me I guess. I get a lot of landing practise that
way, mostly double landings <:-))

I didn't put th drawing on the site because I haven't figured how to do that
from here. I can attach it, but the site doesn't accept attachmnents. If
someone wants it I will resend it direct, and then they can put it on the
site. Any takers?

Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

G'day Phil

I have had your sketch on my workbench since you sent it to me waiting for
the time to do the mod on mine. Until now I did not have the need to take
the wheel off, but this week I am going to take the whole thing to a

friend

who has the necessary machines and we will do your mods.

However the main problem now, is that the centre spindle that fits into

the

fork has come loose. It is secured by two 1/8" roll pins that have either
broken or pulled out. I have not yet looked to see exactly what has

happened

but we will work out a fix.


I agree with you in that the rest of the mechanism is really not as good

as

it could be. I have not seen a Scott tailwheel but from what I have been
told they are much stronger.

I will let you know how the repairs come out.


Regards


Ian

I agree the Murphy wheel as sent is garbage. Easiest is to get a Scott

as

most have done, but I guess I'm stubborn.

If you don't understand from the sketch, or would like me to resend it,
let
me know.

Phil.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Jesse Jenks]

Gary,
From your description it sounds like you have the old tailwheel like me. It
is not meant to free swivel. once it's connected to the rudder it would only
turn as much as the rudder springs allow. So none of the discussion
regarding murphy tailwheel problems or fixes would apply to this model of
tailwheel. As Bob said though, an upgrade kit can be purchased from MAM to
make it a full swivel, or free castor tailwheel, then the previous
discussion would apply.
Hope that helped.
Jesse

From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@adelphia.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Rebel tail wheel
Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:07:15 -0400

Today I examined my tail wheel on my Murphy Rebel #242 and find that
there is no groove that temporary locks the tailwheel in alignment
with the rudder. My tail wheel is on a fiberglass leaf spring and is
completely freewheeling. I am about 90% complete with my plane (and
50% to go)so I am starting to take notice of some of the flying issues.

I like the idea of locking the tailwheel with a pin. Where exactly did
you pin it? Sounds like that will assist greatly in preventing ground
loops. However, I do not fully understand the "two flimsy rollpins" being
replaced with a keyway across the top of the shaft. Has someone posted
pictures, or could Phil Stubley explain a bit more on these fixes.

Keep up the interesting and informative chatter. Us novices pick up a
Number of hints and things to watch for. Thanks

Gary Gustafson.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Phil
Stubley
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:59 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

Ian and group,

The fix I have addresses the loose connection of the two FLIMSY rollpins
trying to do a mansize job. I replaced this connection with a keyway
across
the top of the shaft. Seems to work so far (25+Hrs).

The second issue with the MAM wheel,( and others which alow you to do a
ground loop) seems to be the inadvertent free wheeling tendency.

I fixed that by permanently locking the swivel. Well not quite
permamently,
but I disconnected the rudder from the swivel. Now I have to manually, on
location, pull a pin to release the swivel. Only time I need to swivel is
for ground handling anyway, so works fine in my estimation.

The third issue is the strength of the stinger and attachment. I have no
comment on that, as I haven't seen any evidence of damage there. Maybe
it's
because I can't get my wheel down on landing anyway, so don't have any hard
tailwheel episodes. Only once when I had a strong crosswind and used no
flaps, I got the tail down with the mains three feet up (well, it seemed
that high). Normally with 15* flaps the Rebel is still flat, not tail down
when I finally hit. Just me I guess. I get a lot of landing practise that
way, mostly double landings <:-))

I didn't put th drawing on the site because I haven't figured how to do
that
from here. I can attach it, but the site doesn't accept attachmnents. If
someone wants it I will resend it direct, and then they can put it on the
site. Any takers?

Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: "IAN DONALDSON" <allsure@bigpond.net.au>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 7:13 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel tail wheel

G'day Phil

I have had your sketch on my workbench since you sent it to me waiting

for

the time to do the mod on mine. Until now I did not have the need to

take

the wheel off, but this week I am going to take the whole thing to a

friend

who has the necessary machines and we will do your mods.

However the main problem now, is that the centre spindle that fits into

the

fork has come loose. It is secured by two 1/8" roll pins that have

either

broken or pulled out. I have not yet looked to see exactly what has

happened

but we will work out a fix.


I agree with you in that the rest of the mechanism is really not as good

as

it could be. I have not seen a Scott tailwheel but from what I have been
told they are much stronger.

I will let you know how the repairs come out.


Regards


Ian

I agree the Murphy wheel as sent is garbage. Easiest is to get a

Scott
as

most have done, but I guess I'm stubborn.

If you don't understand from the sketch, or would like me to resend

it,

let
me know.

Phil.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------







-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Phil Stubley]

Hi Gary,

Great to hear you are taking thechallenge of flying with less capabilities
than most of us have but just take for granted!!!

I will send a copy of the sketch I sent to Ian. You have the writeup I
see.

I think the Rebel is one of the best designs for handling crosswinds. I
have #302, with the fiberglass spring like yours, and live a lot on a WIDE
grass strip but with a strong crosswind most of the time. I have no trouble
with it. I never landed on wheels before the rebel, so had to relearn
tailwheel plus mains with it. I don't really have to use the brakes for
steering, the rudder plus the tailwheel do the job except for tight turns
at zero speed, (getting gas eg)

Bobp's comment about the fixed tailwheel causing structural problems is the
only negative I have heard. It sure is great for handling, except for
backing up on the ground. That can really load the structure if you (your
helpers) aren't aware. That's when the lock release pin comes in handy.

Good luck with it.

Phil.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@adelphia.net>
To: "Phil Stubley" <phil.stubley@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:17 AM
Subject: FW: Rebel tail wheel

I have been in correspondence with Ian Donaldson in regard to the tail
wheel modifications. I have Rebel #242 (an oldie) with a fiberglass
tail spring and a free wheeling tail wheel.

I am a wheelchair pilot who will be flying a tail dragger for the first

time

and I know how critical braking is. Hence, I am very concerned about a
freewheeling tail wheel. I am putting in a center 'stick' with 2 levers, a
design that I received from a wheelchair RV6 pilot with 750 hours. Looks
like it will work very well in the Rebel. But I hear stories about and

have

seen one ground loop (quite a bit of damage) which gives rise as to how
responsive I can be in controlling the independent brakes during cross

wind

landings. I do not think a free wheeling tail wheel helps.

Hence I am very interested in your mod based on Ian's comments and wonder
If you would be so kind as to forward your drawings.

Thanking you in advance.

Gary Gustafson

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

[Bob Patterson]

Hi Gary !

I agree completely with Phil ! The Rebel is one of the
easiest taildraggers there is to land. If you can, try to do at least
5 hours on a grass strip before you venture to pavement - grass
is MUCH more forgiving ! (I have checked out folks on pavement
in 5 hours, who had flown only Cherokees, so it is possible -
you just have to be a bit more careful.)

In any case, as Phil says, you never need the brakes for anything
but taxiing. If you are reasonably ahead of the airplane with the rudder,
you will have no problems. Be careful not to set the brakes to be too
sensitive - pilots DO get into trouble landing with their toes on the
brakes, or worse, just one brake ! ;-)

I'm wondering if you are missing some parts, because Murphy has
never sold a free-wheeling tailwheel ! It should be either "steerable"
(fixed to the rudder by chains & springs), or "full-swivel" (as previous,
but with a mechanism in the horn that allows it to "kick-out" at the
end of travel, for tighter turns, and backing up for parking). Might
be worth a review of the manual !

I think what Phil has done is to lock the "kick-out", making it
a manual, ground only, operation -- not necessarily a bad thing. It
certainly would make steering positive, with no chance of unwanted
"kick-out" - not that I've EVER had that, though ! Sounds like you
could try it, and change later if you wanted.....

Where are you ?? Might be a Rebel nearby that you could try...

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Friday 19 August 2005 07:49 pm, Phil Stubley wrote:

Hi Gary,

Great to hear you are taking thechallenge of flying with less capabilities
than most of us have but just take for granted!!!

I will send a copy of the sketch I sent to Ian. You have the writeup I
see.

I think the Rebel is one of the best designs for handling crosswinds. I
have #302, with the fiberglass spring like yours, and live a lot on a WIDE
grass strip but with a strong crosswind most of the time. I have no trouble
with it. I never landed on wheels before the rebel, so had to relearn
tailwheel plus mains with it. I don't really have to use the brakes for
steering, the rudder plus the tailwheel do the job except for tight turns
at zero speed, (getting gas eg)

Bobp's comment about the fixed tailwheel causing structural problems is the
only negative I have heard. It sure is great for handling, except for
backing up on the ground. That can really load the structure if you (your
helpers) aren't aware. That's when the lock release pin comes in handy.

Good luck with it.

Phil.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Gustafson" <gargus@adelphia.net>
To: "Phil Stubley" <phil.stubley@sympatico.ca>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:17 AM
Subject: FW: Rebel tail wheel

I have been in correspondence with Ian Donaldson in regard to the tail
wheel modifications. I have Rebel #242 (an oldie) with a fiberglass
tail spring and a free wheeling tail wheel.

I am a wheelchair pilot who will be flying a tail dragger for the first

time

and I know how critical braking is. Hence, I am very concerned about a
freewheeling tail wheel. I am putting in a center 'stick' with 2 levers, a
design that I received from a wheelchair RV6 pilot with 750 hours. Looks
like it will work very well in the Rebel. But I hear stories about and

have

seen one ground loop (quite a bit of damage) which gives rise as to how
responsive I can be in controlling the independent brakes during cross

wind

landings. I do not think a free wheeling tail wheel helps.

Hence I am very interested in your mod based on Ian's comments and wonder
If you would be so kind as to forward your drawings.

Thanking you in advance.

Gary Gustafson

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------