Cabin forward building

[Mike Betti]

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just doesn't
seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Ralph Baker]

Mike,
Sounds like you are confused about the "windshield shelf". That is the
part of the glare shield that extends forward of the firewall and seals
off the engine compartment under the lower forward portion of the
windshield. I suggest you look in the windshield installation section
to see how it is used.

The lower floor forward of the carrythrough is flimsy with just the one
front to rear 5/8" square tube in the center. Most suggest additional
reinforcement such as angles. There is a "step down" the width of the
carry through as standard. You may wish to build it up and stiffen it.
When you drill for the rudder pedals be carefull. MAM provides no
dimensions and in my experience their suggested pedal doubler size is
too small by several inches each way.
Ralph Baker



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[Alan Hepburn]

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about 3",
as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did, the
part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about level
with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff along
the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and the
associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy. Either
put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos still
in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie the
lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to join
the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet spacing in
this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower engine
mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just doesn't
seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[mbetti]

Thanks Al and Ralph for your replys.
My fus-433 is about 18" deep and connects the firewall to the panel. It clecos on to the firewall ok with 2 prepunched holes but on the panel end it would have to be cut off 2-3" and cut to match the V's of the panel. What adds to the confusion is there are 3 prepunched holes on that end of the piece that would end up getting cut off in the process. Also the fus-433 has 2 creases in it to aid in going on something with a curve which I don't under stand.
Mike Betti


On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about 3",
as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did, the
part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about level
with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff along
the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and the
associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy. Either
put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos still
in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie the
lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to join
the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet spacing in
this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower engine
mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just doesn't
seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[mbetti]

Al,
Do you cut the (dash) piece to fit over the top flanges of the panel, flush with the panel front face? I imagine one has to finish that raw edge with something eventially.
Ralph,
The piece I was referring to is the dash. The piece you mentioned that sticks out beyond I see in some pictures I had, but I don't see any reference to installing it anywhere in the manual, not even in the windshield chapter. I'll have to hunt a little closer for it.

I mentioned in the previous email about the creases in the sheet for the dash. I got a print from MAM and it shows 2 creases for strength added.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about 3",
as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did, the
part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about level
with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff along
the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and the
associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy. Either
put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos still
in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie the
lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to join
the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet spacing in
this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower engine
mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just doesn't
seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Scott Aldrich]

Mike, as far as the overhang above the instrument panel you will see it both
flush with the face and with an overhang. I like a small overhang for
keeping the glare of the instruments off the window at night. The Moose
comes with a very long overhang. I cut this back to about 2 inches

Many ways to finish but most common I have seen is rubber hose split and
glued along the lip and then fabric of choice glued around and over the
entire dash, with padding beneath.

FWIW,
Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
mbetti@up.net
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:26 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


Al,
Do you cut the (dash) piece to fit over the top flanges of the panel, flush
with the panel front face? I imagine one has to finish that raw edge with
something eventially.
Ralph,
The piece I was referring to is the dash. The piece you mentioned that
sticks out beyond I see in some pictures I had, but I don't see any
reference to installing it anywhere in the manual, not even in the
windshield chapter. I'll have to hunt a little closer for it.

I mentioned in the previous email about the creases in the sheet for the
dash. I got a print from MAM and it shows 2 creases for strength added.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about 3",
as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did, the
part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about

level

with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff along
the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and the
associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy. Either
put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos

still

in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie

the

lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to join
the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet spacing

in

this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower engine
mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just doesn't
seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Ralph Baker]

Mike,
The glare shield extends aft of the panel face. There is a variable
over hang (widest in the center) necessary to shade the instruments. I
made a "turn down" lip after it was installed to hide my instrument
light light strip and finished that bottom edge with slip on rubber
channel. As mentioned earlier it is necessary to notch the aft corners
of the glareshield to fit around the vertical carry throughs.
Ralph Baker



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[Alan Hepburn]

Mike:

There's a picture of my panel in the archives, (E Panels/Panel FGAH), plus I
just uploaded one of the nose section under construction to E Fuselage,
which may help.

On the panel glare shield, you could trim the nose top skin off flush aft of
the panel, or let it protrude and roll it round as advised by Ralph, but I
went a little further, and it worked out really nice (IMHO!), as shown in
the picture. Trim it flush with the panel, then build a fiberglass
glareshield that protrudes aft about 2", and down about an inch. Curve the
edges nicely so if your head hits it, you don't do too much damage (to the
head!). Paint it matt black. Then install one of those electroluminescent
lighting strips (e.g. www.aeroenhancements.com) under the glareshield where
you can't see it, but it provides nice uniform illumination to the entire
panel.

Hope this helps.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Thanks Al and Ralph for your replys.
My fus-433 is about 18" deep and connects the firewall to the panel. It

clecos on to the firewall ok with 2 prepunched holes but on the panel end it
would have to be cut off 2-3" and cut to match the V's of the panel. What
adds to the confusion is there are 3 prepunched holes on that end of the
piece that would end up getting cut off in the process. Also the fus-433 has
2 creases in it to aid in going on something with a curve which I don't
under stand.

Mike Betti


On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about

3",

as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did,

the

part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about

level

with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff

along

the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and

the

associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy.

Either

put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos

still

in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie

the

lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to

join

the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet spacing

in

this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower

engine

mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just

doesn't

seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Warren & Marg Montgomery]

You don't want a guillotine. I'd cut flush and make the shade out of
something that provides a crumble zone.

Scott Aldrich wrote:

Mike, as far as the overhang above the instrument panel you will see it both
flush with the face and with an overhang. I like a small overhang for
keeping the glare of the instruments off the window at night. The Moose
comes with a very long overhang. I cut this back to about 2 inches

Many ways to finish but most common I have seen is rubber hose split and
glued along the lip and then fabric of choice glued around and over the
entire dash, with padding beneath.

FWIW,
Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
mbetti@up.net
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:26 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


Al,
Do you cut the (dash) piece to fit over the top flanges of the panel, flush
with the panel front face? I imagine one has to finish that raw edge with
something eventially.
Ralph,
The piece I was referring to is the dash. The piece you mentioned that
sticks out beyond I see in some pictures I had, but I don't see any
reference to installing it anywhere in the manual, not even in the
windshield chapter. I'll have to hunt a little closer for it.

I mentioned in the previous email about the creases in the sheet for the
dash. I got a print from MAM and it shows 2 creases for strength added.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about 3",
as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did, the
part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about

level

with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff along
the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and the
associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy. Either
put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos

still

in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie

the

lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to join
the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet spacing

in

this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower engine
mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just doesn't
seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Scott Aldrich]

We decided the .032 lip with the reinforced air hose over it was a good
crumble zone - probably a moot point with the control stick through my
heart:)


Warren Montgomery wrote:

You don't want a guillotine. I'd cut flush and make the shade out of
something that provides a crumble zone.

Scott Aldrich wrote:

Mike, as far as the overhang above the instrument panel you will see it

both

flush with the face and with an overhang. I like a small overhang for
keeping the glare of the instruments off the window at night. The Moose
comes with a very long overhang. I cut this back to about 2 inches

Many ways to finish but most common I have seen is rubber hose split and
glued along the lip and then fabric of choice glued around and over the
entire dash, with padding beneath.

FWIW,
Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
mbetti@up.net
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 12:26 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


Al,
Do you cut the (dash) piece to fit over the top flanges of the panel, flush
with the panel front face? I imagine one has to finish that raw edge with
something eventially.
Ralph,
The piece I was referring to is the dash. The piece you mentioned that
sticks out beyond I see in some pictures I had, but I don't see any
reference to installing it anywhere in the manual, not even in the
windshield chapter. I'll have to hunt a little closer for it.

I mentioned in the previous email about the creases in the sheet for the
dash. I got a print from MAM and it shows 2 creases for strength added.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E

On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about 3",
as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did, the
part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about

level

with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff along
the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and the
associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy. Either
put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos

still

in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie

the

lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to

join

the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet spacing

in

this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower engine
mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

Hi,
I'm building the area forward of the cabin. I have the 2 side panels,
forward floor and the firewall in place. I try to fit the top piece
fus433 between the firewall and the instrument panel and it just doesn't
seem to fit. Like it's about 2" too long. Anybody else have this
problem? Do I have to cut it to fit? Or do I have a mismade piece?
Also will this airplane have a step in the forward floor between the
carrythrough and the forward floor, like 2"? I didn't know if it gets
filled in some how or left that way.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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[Mike Betti]

Thanks for the info all,
I'm using the fus-452's for the forward lower corners, how are they fitted?
Do they need to be sloted to go around the strut bracket attach point or do
they end up just short of it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Mike:

There's a picture of my panel in the archives, (E Panels/Panel FGAH), plus
I
just uploaded one of the nose section under construction to E Fuselage,
which may help.

On the panel glare shield, you could trim the nose top skin off flush aft
of
the panel, or let it protrude and roll it round as advised by Ralph, but I
went a little further, and it worked out really nice (IMHO!), as shown in
the picture. Trim it flush with the panel, then build a fiberglass
glareshield that protrudes aft about 2", and down about an inch. Curve
the
edges nicely so if your head hits it, you don't do too much damage (to the
head!). Paint it matt black. Then install one of those
electroluminescent
lighting strips (e.g. www.aeroenhancements.com) under the glareshield
where
you can't see it, but it provides nice uniform illumination to the entire
panel.

Hope this helps.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Thanks Al and Ralph for your replys.
My fus-433 is about 18" deep and connects the firewall to the panel. It

clecos on to the firewall ok with 2 prepunched holes but on the panel end
it
would have to be cut off 2-3" and cut to match the V's of the panel. What
adds to the confusion is there are 3 prepunched holes on that end of the
piece that would end up getting cut off in the process. Also the fus-433
has
2 creases in it to aid in going on something with a curve which I don't
under stand.

Mike Betti


On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to
match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was
the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about

3",

as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did,

the

part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about

level

with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff

along

the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and

the

associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy.

Either

put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos

still

in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie

the

lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to

join

the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet
spacing

in

this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower

engine

mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace
the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from
Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

doesn't

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[N.Smith]

Hi Mike

I slotted mine to allow the forward of the two strut bracket halves to fit
through. The FUS-452 then picks up the rivet line up and down the vertical
door posts. It helps if you can get the use of a shrinker to contract the
underneath of the 452 beneath the spring gear saddles to help it follow the
curvature of the forward fuselage.

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 09 July 2005 21:37
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


Thanks for the info all,
I'm using the fus-452's for the forward lower corners, how are they fitted?
Do they need to be sloted to go around the strut bracket attach point or do
they end up just short of it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Mike:

There's a picture of my panel in the archives, (E Panels/Panel FGAH), plus
I
just uploaded one of the nose section under construction to E Fuselage,
which may help.

On the panel glare shield, you could trim the nose top skin off flush aft
of
the panel, or let it protrude and roll it round as advised by Ralph, but I
went a little further, and it worked out really nice (IMHO!), as shown in
the picture. Trim it flush with the panel, then build a fiberglass
glareshield that protrudes aft about 2", and down about an inch. Curve
the
edges nicely so if your head hits it, you don't do too much damage (to the
head!). Paint it matt black. Then install one of those
electroluminescent
lighting strips (e.g. www.aeroenhancements.com) under the glareshield
where
you can't see it, but it provides nice uniform illumination to the entire
panel.

Hope this helps.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Thanks Al and Ralph for your replys.
My fus-433 is about 18" deep and connects the firewall to the panel. It

clecos on to the firewall ok with 2 prepunched holes but on the panel end
it
would have to be cut off 2-3" and cut to match the V's of the panel. What
adds to the confusion is there are 3 prepunched holes on that end of the
piece that would end up getting cut off in the process. Also the fus-433
has
2 creases in it to aid in going on something with a curve which I don't
under stand.

Mike Betti


On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

Mike:

My FUS-433 was the right size, but it needs cut at the rear edge to
match
the idntation of the instrument panel. The part that confused me was
the
placing of FUS-460, the "windshield shelf". The raer of FUS-460 simply
overlaps FUS-433 by 5/8", and it sticks out beyonf the firewall (about

3",

as I recollect). The instructions would lead you to think that the
windshield actually protrudes onto this shelf, but not so. If it did,

the

part would have to be steel. The windshield actually stops just about

level

with the firewall, and all the shelf supports is the fiberglass cuff

along

the front of the windshield. It also the rear lip of the top cowl and

the

associated fasteners.

You will conclude that FUS-460 is far wider than it needs to be. It is.
Jack Wiebe did something useful with the excess. He bent it back at an
angle and riveted it to the firewall about 2" down from the top, thereby
making a strong triangular tube right across the top of the firewall.

The floor does step down 2", and as Ralph says, is far too flimsy.

Either

put a double floor with 5/8" square stringers between as I did (photos

still

in archive, I believe), or add about 1 1/4" angles on the outside to tie

the

lower motor mounts solidly back to the front FUS-5.

Another thing the instructions don't tell you is to use long rivets to

join

the skins to the forward door posts. The standard RV-1410s are just too
short for the thickness of metal involved. Also, halve the rivet
spacing

in

this area, as it is a weak point (rivets tend to shear, especially on
floatplanes apparently.

You might consider Wayne's firewall doubler plate between the lower

engine

mounts, and for sure you should go to thicker corner wraps to replace
the
FUS-10s at all four corners of the nose. These are available from
Murphy
for the trike version (part # FUS-452).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Cabin forward building

doesn't

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[Mike Betti]

I have it this way also and I don't like the way it hugs the carrythrough.
Is it supposed to be like that? I just as soon cut it short of the strut
bracket.
Also, I forgot to ask. The side panels are mentioned in the manual of a
crease in them near where they attach to the carrythrough vertical. Mine
don't have this, I was thinking maybe I should put one in it to match the
fus 9??
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: Cabin forward building

Hi Mike

I slotted mine to allow the forward of the two strut bracket halves to fit
through. The FUS-452 then picks up the rivet line up and down the vertical
door posts. It helps if you can get the use of a shrinker to contract the
underneath of the 452 beneath the spring gear saddles to help it follow
the
curvature of the forward fuselage.

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 09 July 2005 21:37
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


Thanks for the info all,
I'm using the fus-452's for the forward lower corners, how are they
fitted?
Do they need to be sloted to go around the strut bracket attach point or
do
they end up just short of it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Mike:

There's a picture of my panel in the archives, (E Panels/Panel FGAH),
plus
I
just uploaded one of the nose section under construction to E Fuselage,
which may help.

On the panel glare shield, you could trim the nose top skin off flush aft
of
the panel, or let it protrude and roll it round as advised by Ralph, but
I
went a little further, and it worked out really nice (IMHO!), as shown in
the picture. Trim it flush with the panel, then build a fiberglass
glareshield that protrudes aft about 2", and down about an inch. Curve
the
edges nicely so if your head hits it, you don't do too much damage (to
the
head!). Paint it matt black. Then install one of those
electroluminescent
lighting strips (e.g. www.aeroenhancements.com) under the glareshield
where
you can't see it, but it provides nice uniform illumination to the entire
panel.

Hope this helps.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Thanks Al and Ralph for your replys.
My fus-433 is about 18" deep and connects the firewall to the panel. It

clecos on to the firewall ok with 2 prepunched holes but on the panel end
it
would have to be cut off 2-3" and cut to match the V's of the panel. What
adds to the confusion is there are 3 prepunched holes on that end of the
piece that would end up getting cut off in the process. Also the fus-433
has
2 creases in it to aid in going on something with a curve which I don't
under stand.

Mike Betti


On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

3",

the

level

along

the

Either

still

the

join

in

engine

doesn't

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[Mike Davis]

Hi Mike, not all the side panels in these kits are creased... and they
really don't need to be, but it does look much nicer when they are creased
and you have that nice line all the way down the side of the plane.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 2:14 PM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

I have it this way also and I don't like the way it hugs the carrythrough.
Is it supposed to be like that? I just as soon cut it short of the strut
bracket.
Also, I forgot to ask. The side panels are mentioned in the manual of a
crease in them near where they attach to the carrythrough vertical. Mine
don't have this, I was thinking maybe I should put one in it to match the
fus 9??
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: Cabin forward building

Hi Mike

I slotted mine to allow the forward of the two strut bracket halves to
fit
through. The FUS-452 then picks up the rivet line up and down the
vertical
door posts. It helps if you can get the use of a shrinker to contract the
underneath of the 452 beneath the spring gear saddles to help it follow
the
curvature of the forward fuselage.

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 09 July 2005 21:37
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


Thanks for the info all,
I'm using the fus-452's for the forward lower corners, how are they
fitted?
Do they need to be sloted to go around the strut bracket attach point or
do
they end up just short of it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Mike:

There's a picture of my panel in the archives, (E Panels/Panel FGAH),
plus
I
just uploaded one of the nose section under construction to E Fuselage,
which may help.

On the panel glare shield, you could trim the nose top skin off flush
aft
of
the panel, or let it protrude and roll it round as advised by Ralph, but
I
went a little further, and it worked out really nice (IMHO!), as shown
in
the picture. Trim it flush with the panel, then build a fiberglass
glareshield that protrudes aft about 2", and down about an inch. Curve
the
edges nicely so if your head hits it, you don't do too much damage (to
the
head!). Paint it matt black. Then install one of those
electroluminescent
lighting strips (e.g. www.aeroenhancements.com) under the glareshield
where
you can't see it, but it provides nice uniform illumination to the
entire
panel.

Hope this helps.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

clecos on to the firewall ok with 2 prepunched holes but on the panel
end
it
would have to be cut off 2-3" and cut to match the V's of the panel.
What
adds to the confusion is there are 3 prepunched holes on that end of the
piece that would end up getting cut off in the process. Also the fus-433
has
2 creases in it to aid in going on something with a curve which I don't
under stand. 3", the level along the Either still the join in engine doesn't


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[N.Smith]

Hi Mike

The forward carrythrough must have its ends angled back to clear the 452. I
had already cut mine back before I fitted the 452, but still had to file it
back on the lower edges to allow a small clearance to prevent it catching
the 452.

I did not add a fold below the FUS-9, but am still happy with the way it
looks.

I replaced the avex rivets in my door post with cherrymax all the way to
make it stronger. I've also added Wayne's firewall stiffeners, and 2 under
floor strips of witches hat to strengthen the under rudder pedal area.

Nigel
745E


-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 09 July 2005 23:15
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


I have it this way also and I don't like the way it hugs the carrythrough.
Is it supposed to be like that? I just as soon cut it short of the strut
bracket.
Also, I forgot to ask. The side panels are mentioned in the manual of a
crease in them near where they attach to the carrythrough vertical. Mine
don't have this, I was thinking maybe I should put one in it to match the
fus 9??
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E
----- Original Message -----
From: "N.Smith" <admin@airnig.co.uk>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: Cabin forward building

Hi Mike

I slotted mine to allow the forward of the two strut bracket halves to fit
through. The FUS-452 then picks up the rivet line up and down the vertical
door posts. It helps if you can get the use of a shrinker to contract the
underneath of the 452 beneath the spring gear saddles to help it follow
the
curvature of the forward fuselage.

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: 09 July 2005 21:37
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building


Thanks for the info all,
I'm using the fus-452's for the forward lower corners, how are they
fitted?
Do they need to be sloted to go around the strut bracket attach point or
do
they end up just short of it?
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E


----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Hepburn" <ahepburn@renc.igs.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 6:20 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Mike:

There's a picture of my panel in the archives, (E Panels/Panel FGAH),
plus
I
just uploaded one of the nose section under construction to E Fuselage,
which may help.

On the panel glare shield, you could trim the nose top skin off flush aft
of
the panel, or let it protrude and roll it round as advised by Ralph, but
I
went a little further, and it worked out really nice (IMHO!), as shown in
the picture. Trim it flush with the panel, then build a fiberglass
glareshield that protrudes aft about 2", and down about an inch. Curve
the
edges nicely so if your head hits it, you don't do too much damage (to
the
head!). Paint it matt black. Then install one of those
electroluminescent
lighting strips (e.g. www.aeroenhancements.com) under the glareshield
where
you can't see it, but it provides nice uniform illumination to the entire
panel.

Hope this helps.

Al

----- Original Message -----
From: <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Cabin forward building

Thanks Al and Ralph for your replys.
My fus-433 is about 18" deep and connects the firewall to the panel. It

clecos on to the firewall ok with 2 prepunched holes but on the panel end
it
would have to be cut off 2-3" and cut to match the V's of the panel. What
adds to the confusion is there are 3 prepunched holes on that end of the
piece that would end up getting cut off in the process. Also the fus-433
has
2 creases in it to aid in going on something with a curve which I don't
under stand.

Mike Betti


On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 07:51:06 -0400, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

3",

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level

along

the

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