Steel bushing and Hinge wear

[Clay Smith]

Hi Guys,
I spoke with a Rebel owner last week regarding excessive steel bushing
wear to his vertical and horizontal stab aluminum hinges. This has
occurred after 3 or 4 years of flying (maybe 250 hrs). This surprised
me. Has anyone else seen this wear? Maybe this owner hasn't been
lubricating these bushings regularly ..?
I think that his going to try making some delrin inserts for the hinges.


Clay Smith



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[Jones, Michael]

clay

one solution i have heard of is using the brass bushings form ailerons as
inserts riveted to hinge arms and then steel inserts, don't know if it is
approved by factory but know of several people who have done this

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Clay Smith
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


Hi Guys,
I spoke with a Rebel owner last week regarding excessive steel bushing
wear to his vertical and horizontal stab aluminum hinges. This has
occurred after 3 or 4 years of flying (maybe 250 hrs). This surprised
me. Has anyone else seen this wear? Maybe this owner hasn't been
lubricating these bushings regularly ..?
I think that his going to try making some delrin inserts for the hinges.


Clay Smith



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

The actual trick is to get the bolt to turn inside the steel bushing and the
steel bushing to NOT turn at all in the aluminum. Would be a lot easier if
the anchor nut used inside the spar tube cap was a fixed anchor and not a
floating...but it can be accomplished if you snug it just right. Then you
can keep the bolt to steel bushing lubed easily....and they can both be
thrown away if they wear significantly..unlike the alum hinge bracket!

My lunch is over, gotta go!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Michael" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

clay

one solution i have heard of is using the brass bushings form ailerons as
inserts riveted to hinge arms and then steel inserts, don't know if it is
approved by factory but know of several people who have done this

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Clay Smith
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 1:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


Hi Guys,
I spoke with a Rebel owner last week regarding excessive steel bushing
wear to his vertical and horizontal stab aluminum hinges. This has
occurred after 3 or 4 years of flying (maybe 250 hrs). This surprised
me. Has anyone else seen this wear? Maybe this owner hasn't been
lubricating these bushings regularly ..?
I think that his going to try making some delrin inserts for the hinges.


Clay Smith



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confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient
of this message you are hereby notified that you must not disseminate,
copy or take any action with respect to it.

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HATCH immediately via mailto:MailAdmin@hatch.ca.



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[WALTER KLATT]

So far (330 hours), only one hinge (middle right flaperon) is showing some slight looseness. The rest are all tight as can be. I am planning to take it apart at my next annual in the fall, and see what gives. Meanwhile, I am watching it carefully with each pre-flight to see if it changes. Not sure why this one chose to loosen up, and can't see anything wrong from a visual inspection, just wear, I guess.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
Date: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:10 am
Subject: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

Hi Guys,
I spoke with a Rebel owner last week regarding excessive steel
bushing
wear to his vertical and horizontal stab aluminum hinges. This
has
occurred after 3 or 4 years of flying (maybe 250 hrs). This
surprised
me. Has anyone else seen this wear? Maybe this owner hasn't been
lubricating these bushings regularly ..?
I think that his going to try making some delrin inserts for the
hinges.


Clay Smith



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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Clay !

This is a fairly common problem, especially on Rebels with an O-320.
Something to do with extra vibration & higher speeds. As you suggest,
regular oiling will help. The 912 Rotax-powered Rebel went 10 years,
and over 1,000 hours with very little play evident, with a 2 blade prop.
More blades might add to problems with the tail.

I just re-did all of my tail surfaces last year ( about 300 hr.) - only
one elevator was bad, but did both, and the rudder, before painting,
so I wouldn't have to go through it later.

We turned down the brass aileron bushings (AIL-26 ??) and put
them on the inboard side of the elevator supports, with a couple of
small countersunk rivets to hold them. While we were at it, we added
a wide strip of .032 aluminum inside the fiberglass tips, to both
stiffen them up, and add extra balance weight (Should be at least
70 % mass balanced) . I believe that the tips were flexing enough
to cause a bit of flutter, which greatly increased the wear of the
elevator supports. It wasn't enough that you could feel it on the
stick, but I think it was real ! Suspect going up to 90 % mass
balance wouldn't hurt !

If you haven't already, you should definitely double up the
horn on the elevator trim tab, as per the MAM service bulletin.
(see Tech Support online) If that horn flexes, it also causes flutter,
and, if it flexes enough to crack right through, you WILL see
BIG-TIME flutter !!! :-( NO FUN !!!

........bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Monday 30 May 2005 01:10 pm, Clay Smith wrote:

Hi Guys,
I spoke with a Rebel owner last week regarding excessive steel bushing
wear to his vertical and horizontal stab aluminum hinges. This has
occurred after 3 or 4 years of flying (maybe 250 hrs). This surprised
me. Has anyone else seen this wear? Maybe this owner hasn't been
lubricating these bushings regularly ..?
I think that his going to try making some delrin inserts for the hinges.


Clay Smith



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[Legeorgen]

I just finished my annual inspection and noticed slight wear or slop on both
the elevator hinges on the left side after a 150 hours. My mechanic friend
suggested what Wayne said; to fix the bushing to the aluminum hinge with Lock
Tight (bushing fix, 640?) and make the bolt turn inside the bushing. When the
bolts is showing wear just throw it away and replace with a new one.

Bruce G




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

In the flaperon units...the bolt should indeed be tight holding the steel
bushing(s) tight so the brass bushing riveted to the flaperon end plate
rotates on the steel one(unlike what I described for the Elevator/rudder).

You sure your bolt is not just slightly loose Walter, causing the rock? If
it is actually the brass bushing worn...I would ream it if necessary to get
a clean diameter and get your pal Denis Finley to make you an oversized
steel bushing to match for that spot.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KLATT" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

So far (330 hours), only one hinge (middle right flaperon) is showing some

slight looseness. The rest are all tight as can be. I am planning to take it
apart at my next annual in the fall, and see what gives. Meanwhile, I am
watching it carefully with each pre-flight to see if it changes. Not sure
why this one chose to loosen up, and can't see anything wrong from a visual
inspection, just wear, I guess.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
Date: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:10 am
Subject: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

Hi Guys,
I spoke with a Rebel owner last week regarding excessive steel
bushing
wear to his vertical and horizontal stab aluminum hinges. This
has
occurred after 3 or 4 years of flying (maybe 250 hrs). This
surprised
me. Has anyone else seen this wear? Maybe this owner hasn't been
lubricating these bushings regularly ..?
I think that his going to try making some delrin inserts for the
hinges.


Clay Smith



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[Walter Klatt]

Yeah, maybe I should bite the bullet now and take it apart, just
to check. This is prime flying time here now, though, and hate to
have any down time at this time of year. I was thinking the same
thing, about an oversized bushing, and between Dennis and Julius,
should be able to come up with something, once I find out exactly
which piece is wearing.

Had some great weather here last week (low 30's C), and over the
weekend. Temps in our bay at the lake hit 69 F on Sat and had to
keep jumping in to keep cool. However, there was still a pretty
good chill down a little deeper.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


In the flaperon units...the bolt should indeed be
tight holding the steel
bushing(s) tight so the brass bushing riveted to the
flaperon end plate
rotates on the steel one(unlike what I described for
the Elevator/rudder).

You sure your bolt is not just slightly loose Walter,
causing the rock? If
it is actually the brass bushing worn...I would ream
it if necessary to get
a clean diameter and get your pal Denis Finley to make
you an oversized
steel bushing to match for that spot.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KLATT" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

So far (330 hours), only one hinge (middle right

flaperon) is showing some
slight looseness. The rest are all tight as can be. I
am planning to take it
apart at my next annual in the fall, and see what
gives. Meanwhile, I am
watching it carefully with each pre-flight to see if
it changes. Not sure
why this one chose to loosen up, and can't see
anything wrong from a visual
inspection, just wear, I guess.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
Date: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:10 am
Subject: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

Hi Guys,
I spoke with a Rebel owner last week regarding

excessive steel

bushing
wear to his vertical and horizontal stab aluminum

hinges. This

has
occurred after 3 or 4 years of flying (maybe 250

hrs). This

surprised
me. Has anyone else seen this wear? Maybe this

owner hasn't been

lubricating these bushings regularly ..?
I think that his going to try making some delrin

inserts for the

hinges.


Clay Smith

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[Walter Klatt]

Well, Wayne looks like you were right as usual. Your long
distance online diagnosis hit the mark once again. I took a look
at that hinge again, and sure enough the bolt on that flaperon
hinge was not tight, and allowed some movement of the bolt on the
hinge. I pulled the cotter pin, tightened it up, and that did it.
Now it is just as tight as the rest of them, and uses only the
brass flaperon piece and steel bushing as the hinge point.

While I was at it, I just rechecked all my hinge joints on all
the control surfaces, and happy to say, all are still tight as
new. I guess that my frequent lubing and storing in the hangar,
not outside, has paid off with that. And my occasional splash
into salt water, doesn't seem to affect anything either.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


Yeah, maybe I should bite the bullet now and take it
apart, just
to check. This is prime flying time here now, though,
and hate to
have any down time at this time of year. I was
thinking the same
thing, about an oversized bushing, and between Dennis
and Julius,
should be able to come up with something, once I find
out exactly
which piece is wearing.

Had some great weather here last week (low 30's C),
and over the
weekend. Temps in our bay at the lake hit 69 F on Sat
and had to
keep jumping in to keep cool. However, there was still a pretty
good chill down a little deeper.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


In the flaperon units...the bolt should indeed be
tight holding the steel
bushing(s) tight so the brass bushing riveted to the
flaperon end plate
rotates on the steel one(unlike what I described for
the Elevator/rudder).

You sure your bolt is not just slightly loose Walter,
causing the rock? If
it is actually the brass bushing worn...I would ream
it if necessary to get
a clean diameter and get your pal Denis Finley to make
you an oversized
steel bushing to match for that spot.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KLATT" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

So far (330 hours), only one hinge (middle right

flaperon) is showing some
slight looseness. The rest are all tight as can be. I
am planning to take it
apart at my next annual in the fall, and see what
gives. Meanwhile, I am
watching it carefully with each pre-flight to see if
it changes. Not sure
why this one chose to loosen up, and can't see
anything wrong from a visual
inspection, just wear, I guess.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Clay Smith <cbsmith@nf.sympatico.ca>
Date: Monday, May 30, 2005 10:10 am
Subject: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

excessive steel

hinges. This

hrs). This

owner hasn't been

inserts for the

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Glad I could help Walter!! Guess you owe me another steak dinner in White
Rock ! LOL!!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

Well, Wayne looks like you were right as usual. Your long
distance online diagnosis hit the mark once again. I took a look
at that hinge again, and sure enough the bolt on that flaperon
hinge was not tight, and allowed some movement of the bolt on the
hinge. I pulled the cotter pin, tightened it up, and that did it.
Now it is just as tight as the rest of them, and uses only the
brass flaperon piece and steel bushing as the hinge point.

While I was at it, I just rechecked all my hinge joints on all
the control surfaces, and happy to say, all are still tight as
new. I guess that my frequent lubing and storing in the hangar,
not outside, has paid off with that. And my occasional splash
into salt water, doesn't seem to affect anything either.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


Yeah, maybe I should bite the bullet now and take it
apart, just
to check. This is prime flying time here now, though,
and hate to
have any down time at this time of year. I was
thinking the same
thing, about an oversized bushing, and between Dennis
and Julius,
should be able to come up with something, once I find
out exactly
which piece is wearing.

Had some great weather here last week (low 30's C),
and over the
weekend. Temps in our bay at the lake hit 69 F on Sat
and had to
keep jumping in to keep cool. However, there was still a pretty
good chill down a little deeper.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


In the flaperon units...the bolt should indeed be
tight holding the steel
bushing(s) tight so the brass bushing riveted to the
flaperon end plate
rotates on the steel one(unlike what I described for
the Elevator/rudder).

You sure your bolt is not just slightly loose Walter,
causing the rock? If
it is actually the brass bushing worn...I would ream
it if necessary to get
a clean diameter and get your pal Denis Finley to make
you an oversized
steel bushing to match for that spot.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "WALTER KLATT" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

flaperon) is showing some
slight looseness. The rest are all tight as can be. I
am planning to take it
apart at my next annual in the fall, and see what
gives. Meanwhile, I am
watching it carefully with each pre-flight to see if
it changes. Not sure
why this one chose to loosen up, and can't see
anything wrong from a visual
inspection, just wear, I guess. excessive steel hinges. This hrs). This owner hasn't been inserts for the -------------------------------------------------------
---------- -------------------------------------------------------
----------
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[Walter Klatt]

Yup, and would be happy to buy you dinner again in White Rock, or
anywhere out here if you make it again. And heck, may even do
that out there if I make it to your fly-in next year, or help
load up your freezer with more pickeral.

Thanks again.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 7:04 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


Glad I could help Walter!! Guess you owe me another
steak dinner in White
Rock ! LOL!!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: Steel bushing and Hinge wear

Well, Wayne looks like you were right as usual. Your long
distance online diagnosis hit the mark once again. I

took a look

at that hinge again, and sure enough the bolt on

that flaperon

hinge was not tight, and allowed some movement of

the bolt on the

hinge. I pulled the cotter pin, tightened it up, and

that did it.

Now it is just as tight as the rest of them, and

uses only the

brass flaperon piece and steel bushing as the hinge point.

While I was at it, I just rechecked all my hinge

joints on all

the control surfaces, and happy to say, all are

still tight as

new. I guess that my frequent lubing and storing in

the hangar,

not outside, has paid off with that. And my occasional splash
into salt water, doesn't seem to affect anything either.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Walter Klatt
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2005 5:53 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Steel bushing and Hinge wear


Yeah, maybe I should bite the bullet now and take it
apart, just
to check. This is prime flying time here now, though,
and hate to
have any down time at this time of year. I was
thinking the same
thing, about an oversized bushing, and between Dennis
and Julius,
should be able to come up with something, once I find
out exactly
which piece is wearing.

Had some great weather here last week (low 30's C),
and over the
weekend. Temps in our bay at the lake hit 69 F on Sat
and had to
keep jumping in to keep cool. However, there was

still a pretty

good chill down a little deeper.

Walter


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[Jesse Jenks]

I don't have a flying airplane, but when I had the control surfaces hinged
together on the bench for fitting the tips I found that with tight fitting
bushings (from some primer in the hinge holes) the hinge bolts would unscrew
easily just with movement of the elevator or rudder. I would not feel
comfortable knowing that a piece of safety wire and/or locktite was all that
was keeping the hinge bolts from unthreading due to friction in the
bushings. I believe the manual specifically says to tighten the hinge bolts
onto the bushings. I sanded out the primer so the bushings move freely in
the hinges, and are held tightly in place by the bolt. I will just put brass
bushings in the hinges later if I get any wear.
Jesse

From: Legeorgen@aol.com
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Steel bushing and Hinge wear
Date: Mon, 30 May 2005 15:58:03 EDT

I just finished my annual inspection and noticed slight wear or slop on
both
the elevator hinges on the left side after a 150 hours. My mechanic friend
suggested what Wayne said; to fix the bushing to the aluminum hinge with
Lock
Tight (bushing fix, 640?) and make the bolt turn inside the bushing. When
the
bolts is showing wear just throw it away and replace with a new one.

Bruce G




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