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Instruments

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
Wayne G. O'Shea

Instruments

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:40 pm

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Bob and ALL,

Noise Filter for Radio: LONESTAR Model #122253-10A Available from numerous
suppliers, Aircraft Spruces part number is 11-08055. 1999's price was $79.99
(U.S) I have a new one(1) here in stock but I need to get $145cdn for it to
cover the $1.55 on the U.S$ I paid on the credit card and the shipping
charges to get it to me etc. Can't give it away as I know I will have to buy
one to replace it sooner or later and I cannot lose on the deal.

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, January 28, 2000 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: Instruments

(Blush !!)

You wouldn't maybe have a part number/manufacturer/source for that
filter, would you ??? I thought mine was the only one that "sang" :-) !!
(Well ...... Howard's WAS worse ! )

We had an instrument tech. as a guest speaker at a meeting last year,
and he was the one who mentioned the difference in vacuum instruments -
apparently the 'venturi' versions will work well on less vacuum. If you
use the 'pump' instruments on a venturi, you may have to get to a much
higher speed for accuracy - a bit difficult if you're using the DG to
take off with ! :-) I believe some manufacturers make both kinds ...

....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 10:24 PM 1/27/00 -0500, you wrote:
Great advice as usual Bob,

My experience with the Val Radio are:

Make sure you get a newer model that has a battery in it to retain the
frequency you set. Otherwise ever time you turn it on you have to reset
the
frequency! Has caused problems for our chapter while doing Young Eagle
Flights because you concentrate on the kids safety as you taxi out. Then
as
you pull out on the runway you broadcast your intentions without noticing
that the radio has defaulted to the bottom of the scale! Has cause some
close calls with aircraft pulling out with another on short final, much to
the excitement of the Parents!

Also, I have found if you are using a Val Radio, you better order a
$150cdn
filter to put on the power lead AT the radio. The noise in the headset
will
drive you nuts otherwise! (Remember test flying Howards Amphib Bob?) Have
had to filter 2 others also. One in a C150 and another Rebel. My KLX135's
are absolutely silent (for noise that is), but yes you are right, the
original one I bought cost me $4200cdn and the latest one the price was
down
to $2200U.S ($3300cdn).

As for the vacuum instruments are you sure there is a difference?? I have
the same instruments (A/H and D/G) in both Rebels. One with pump and one
with V. tube. All work fine! Maybe I just got lucky?????

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, January 27, 2000 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: Instruments

Nothing leaps to mind - most are ok. Are you planning on having any
gyro instruments ?? Vacuum or electric ?? There ARE differences between
vacuum gyros meant for vacuum pumps, and those for venturi tubes - get
the wrong one, and it won't work properly !! Personally, I dislike
vacuum pumps - they suck about 3 hp. all the time, and need overhaul
too often for my liking. Venturi tubes won't hurt much - it's not
a 300 mph. airplane ! :-) If you don't plan IFR anyway, then maybe
just a standby electric turn-and-bank, just in case ! ;-)

Vertical card compasses are nice, but expensive - probably not worth
the price ... If you can find a good one at Canadian Tire - go for it !
At a recent Rebel Builders meeting, we heard about a new type of compass
that's available through Radio Shack for about $60 - electronic, and
easy to set up, even with extreme magnetic conditions (like steel tube
next to compass).

Get an airspeed indicator that covers your range as close as
possible
- markings down to 20 mph, and up to 140 or 160, although even 130 would
likely do. Avoid the 250 mph types - too hard to read the 1" needle range
:-)
Many Rebel Builders are using the VAL panel mount radio - they cost
less than a hand held, and give good performance (8 watts), and have a
bright display that adjusts for lighting conditions. They have a 2
channel
flip flop switch which is handy for going to ground control quickly.
For about $75 extra, they will supply a made-up wiring harness, ready
to go - a bargain !

Hand-held GPS, with a bracket on the panel, is the most
cost-effective
way to go. The technology is advancing quickly, so wait as long as you
can to buy - prices are falling. The fancy combination radio & GPS units
look sexy, but they're EXPENSIVE - both to buy, and maintain. If one
part goes, you lose both for servicing :-(

A moving map display is really nice, but we fly one Rebel with a
$140 GPS from the sporting goods store - works way better than our old
LORAN !! You can always move up, when you know what you want ...

You might want to check out photos of other panels - the standard
layout is becoming - electrical stuff on left angle panel, mounted on
a flip down panel with piano hinges top & bottom, with a doubler around
the hole. The flight instruments are often mounted on a floating panel
in front of the pilot - use 1/8" Lexan for this, and you can put labels
on the back, and paint the back. This looks great, and is protected.
The floating panel is mounted on shock mounts (or just bolts with
fuel line over them). Cut holes in the metal panel to match the floating
panel, but oversize about 1/4" or so - to keep the strength of the
panel (it IS structural). Attach a 1 1/2" aluminum angle to the bottom
of the panel - all the way across, and even out the angles. This angle
will stiffen up the panel AND give you a plave to mount the throttle,
mixture, carb heat, primer, and trim button, leaving space for 2 rows
of full sized instruments on the panel. (can be a 2" angle)

......bobp

-----------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
--
----
At 09:09 PM 1/27/00 -0330, you wrote:
from?
cheaper
there.
He
Gook
have
to
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Jones, Mike

instruments

Post by Jones, Mike » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Hi all

I am consider instrumet choices now and am looking at electric vs vac. Other
than cost of electric can anyone offer ideas about the pros & cons of each,
maintenance of vac system etc.

regards

Mike#007
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Richard DeCiero

instruments

Post by Richard DeCiero » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Mike,
Go to www.aeroelectric.com and read some of Bob Nuckoll's articles. He is very
positive on all electric a/c and offers several interesting thoughts and redundant
electrical system requirements for an all electric a/c. At this point for my rebel I am
going to leave out the attitude indicator and the DG (the two vacuum instruments). I will
probably end up with electric gyro's for these two even though the cost is way up there.
Maybe I'll buy 1 per year once I get the darned thing flying. The turn coordinator will
be installed now.
I cannot get excited about using vacuum pump systems. You could use venturi's
instead of a pump. In the short run the costs are probably more for the electric system
but I feel the reliability of the electrics are worth it but I have not done a
comparison. There are imported electric gyro's (about $1000.00 ea) available from
aircraft spruce and specialty. I just saw them in their new catalog.
Good luck.
Rick D.

Jones, Mike wrote:
Hi all

I am consider instrumet choices now and am looking at electric vs vac. Other
than cost of electric can anyone offer ideas about the pros & cons of each,
maintenance of vac system etc.

regards

Mike#007
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Bob Patterson

instruments

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:40 pm

Hi Mike !

The new vacuum pumps are <supposedly> MUCH lower maintenance,
but they DO take a few horsepower, ALL the time ! Venturis would be
low maintenance, but a bit of extra drag. Older vacuum pumps required
major work every 300 hours or so, and were pricey to fix. Some -
(the 'wet' type) could cause horrible oil leaks very quickly !

Be careful with vacuum instruments - there are <different> types
for vacuum pump or venturi ! The venturi instruments must be very
good quality, as they get less, and more variable, suction ....

Electric is a good way to go, but expensive. You really have
to decide what kind of flying you're going to do - unless you plan
on night flying, you don't need ANY gyros ! Save your money and go
flying NOW ! You can cut the holes, blank them, and buy the gyros
LATER, <IF> you decide you want 'em.

For night, all you need is a DG, and a turn & bank, to
be legal (likely a venturi DG, and electric T & B). <I> would
consider full IFR gyros a COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY, <AND> a GREAT
<RISK> to your life !! Too many people TRY to fly IFR when they
are NOT current, and end up DEAD !!! IFR weather in this part
of Canada is VERY HOSTILE, and small aircraft have VERY little
chance of surviving it (ice/total white-outs !) !

If you want to fly IFR legally, you MUST have dual static,
heated pitot, AND the whole system must be re-certified ANNUALLY !
No IFR is allowed until the 25 hours have been flown off, in any
case.

If you do get gyros, you will want to mount them on a
separate panel with shock mounts to reduce the vibration.

......bobp

------------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 11:53 AM 2/12/01 -0500, you wrote:
Hi all

I am consider instrumet choices now and am looking at electric vs vac. Other
than cost of electric can anyone offer ideas about the pros & cons of each,
maintenance of vac system etc.

regards

Mike#007
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Jones, Mike

instruments

Post by Jones, Mike » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Hi All

I am wondering what engine instruments people have used and who has had good
or bad experiances with what makes. I am considering westach engine gauges,
any comments. Thought about the electronic engine display types but
expensive , comments ??

regards

mike jones#007



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Legeorgen

instruments

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Mike,

EIS (Engine Information Systems) makes a great engine monitoring instrument
and you can get it for a four cylinder for less than $1000.00 US. This would
include 4 CHT, 4 EGT and fuel flow along with RPM, OT, OP and OAT plus more.
I like this instrument because you can set parameters for acceptable temps
and pressures that when exceeded flashes a red light on the panel to notify
you of a potential problem. I believe if you add up the cost of all these
instruments you find the EIS is less money not to mention all the panel space
you'll save for something like a glove box! Now that's a useful item!

Bruce G 357R



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Rick DeCiero

instruments

Post by Rick DeCiero » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:03 pm

Mike,
I am currently using Auto Meter Z-series gauges for the voltmeter, oil
press, and oil temp. They make a black box that allows you to set limits
(either high or low) for triggering an alarm signal. I have my alarm
signal hooked up to warning lights on the panel. My tach is a Van's 2
1/4 ". Van's has a very nice set of 2 1/4" gauges and if I had seen them
before I purchased the Auto Meter's I would have done so.
Gool luck.
Rick D.

Jones, Mike wrote:
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Hi All

I am wondering what engine instruments people have used and who has had good
or bad experiances with what makes. I am considering westach engine gauges,
any comments. Thought about the electronic engine display types but
expensive , comments ??

regards

mike jones#007
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Dale Kilbey

Instruments

Post by Dale Kilbey » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Guys
I have an electric turn and bank gyro out of an early 60's cessna which
doesn't work. Does anyone know where I can get it repaired? Preferably
in Canada
Dale 220R




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Wayne G. O'Shea

Instruments

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Dale!

Please buy some virus protection software and rid your computer of the
HAHAHA - Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Hybrid virus. Every time you send
mail it sends the Snow white tale and it's attached virus out to the person
(or list server) you have sent an e-mail to. Thanks!!!!!

As for the T & B I have heard the Hi Tech Avionics at Buttonville (Toronto,
Ontario) does this kind of thing. Don't know what their prices are like
though as I always buy new. Phone # is 1-888-477-9675 e-mail is
sales@hitechavionics.com

Take care,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Kilbey" <dale.kilbey@sympatico.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 2:15 PM
Subject: Instruments


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Hi Guys
I have an electric turn and bank gyro out of an early 60's cessna which
doesn't work. Does anyone know where I can get it repaired? Preferably
in Canada
Dale 220R

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Bob Patterson

Instruments

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi Dale !

You might try calling Tom Smith at Aerospares (905-671-2781)
He might have a line on a repair station in Toronto area .....

They are great guys to deal with, for almost anything you might
need for airplanes ! If they don't have it, they can get it !

......bobp

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 02:15 PM 8/23/01 -0400, you wrote:
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Hi Guys
I have an electric turn and bank gyro out of an early 60's cessna which
doesn't work. Does anyone know where I can get it repaired? Preferably
in Canada
Dale 220R

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Jones, Mike

INSTRUMENTS

Post by Jones, Mike » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Hi All

Can someone out there tell me what type of tach to use for a lyco 0-320, is
it mechanical or electric ??
Also for cht and egt what type of probes should be used, i seem to recall
seeing 2 types, which is better ??

mike#007



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Wayne G. O'Shea

INSTRUMENTS

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Mike, you can use either tach. Pros and cons to both.

ELECTRIC
PRO -Some of the electric ones just hook to the mag P-lead (with an inline
resistor), so no need to measure for, and get the right length run of,
mechanical cable.
PRO- You don't need to varify tach, with optical tach, every year as an out
of phase task (CAR 626 appendixC) during your annual inspection. Bet most of
you didn't know that!! (although I think you should anyways, as I find the
electric sweep tachs less accurate than the mechanical ones)
CON- To do mag check you need to install a dpdt switch between the two mag
leads and the tach input so you can flip to left and right when you do the
same with the mag switch. More cockpit management stuff!
CON- Have found many electric tachs jump about 400 to 500 RPM's when you
push the transmit button for your radio. This makes me wonder just how
accurate they really are.
CON- Have been known to ground out mags, thus shutting one mag down on you.

MECHANICAL
PRO- Not prone to electrical interference.
PRO- Can't ground out a mag on you.
CON- Can read low due to friction/wear of drive cable and faulty hour meter
gears
CON- Can also read high due to broken hour meter drive.
CON- Must be varified accurate within +/-4% at mid span of cruise range
annually, for your aircraft to be determined airworthy by Transport Canada.
Yes even in a homebuilt! CARS 625 Appendix C applies to homebuilts!

I prefer mechanical ones, but the electric is definitely easier to install
and in some cases cheaper.

As for the CHT probes, go with the bayonet ones that have adapters that
screw into the lower side of the cylinder wall, for a more accurate reading.
The ones that go under the spark plugs usually read HIGH and get damaged
taking the plugs in and out, and then end up shorting out or going open
circuit.

Regards,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jones, Mike" <MJones@hatch.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 8:37 AM
Subject: INSTRUMENTS


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Hi All

Can someone out there tell me what type of tach to use for a lyco 0-320,
is
it mechanical or electric ??
Also for cht and egt what type of probes should be used, i seem to recall
seeing 2 types, which is better ??

mike#007
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Rick DeCiero

INSTRUMENTS

Post by Rick DeCiero » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Mike,
Look at Van's web site or catalog. They have a nice 2 1/4" electrical one
for the Lycoming. It has a sending unit that is mounted to the firewall and is
driven by a twelve inch extension cable from the original tach drive. You have
to be sure to order the tach with the extension. It is not connected to any of
the mags but does require 12 V at the sending unit. I have installed one in my
rebel but have yet to run it up yet. It is fairly inexpensive, I believe it was
less than 50 bucks with everything.
Good luck,
Rick D.
Rebel 404R-wings are on and still no end in sight

"Jones, Mike" wrote:
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*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Hi All

Can someone out there tell me what type of tach to use for a lyco 0-320, is
it mechanical or electric ??
Also for cht and egt what type of probes should be used, i seem to recall
seeing 2 types, which is better ??

mike#007
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Legeorgen

INSTRUMENTS

Post by Legeorgen » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Wayne,

My electronic tach from EIS was jumping around on my display as well. I
questioned it to EIS and they sent me a resistor to place between the engine
and instrument. It's now as steady as a rock. Just a thought... you might try
next time.

Bruce 357R




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Wayne G. O'Shea

INSTRUMENTS

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:16 pm

Thanks Bruce, yes I know that a resistor is required on the digital read out
Engine Information Systems (EIS) from Michigan. Surprised the lack of such
on your installation didn't blow the thing. I have installed 2 of their
units in Howard's Rebel. The latest being the newer model that will take 4
CHT's and 4EGT's without the need for any rotary switches and also has the
little bar graphs in the display. The thing has about 100 pages to scroll
through and while programming it for him reminded me why I love analog
gauges! . I was talking about electronic sweep tachs. A lot of these hook up
to a mag just like the EIS system and also require a resistor inline. The
radiated power of transmitting on the radio seems to make these ones jump,
even if all the wires are shielded.

Take care,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@cs.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 10:49 PM
Subject: Re: INSTRUMENTS


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Wayne,

My electronic tach from EIS was jumping around on my display as well. I
questioned it to EIS and they sent me a resistor to place between the
engine
and instrument. It's now as steady as a rock. Just a thought... you might
try
next time.

Bruce 357R

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