Small engines

[AURELE LAVIGNE]

I guess I can add my two cents, after that invite from Bob as I have the
912 in my Rebel. It wasn`t planned that way but I bought the fully
completed/used Rebel this way because;1-the price was right 2- it's
cheap to fly, operate and maintain as it's reg't as an AULA for one
thing 3-licensing was cheap also since I only needed a U/L.

Rick in Australia didn't beleive you could put floats on this setup, and
while I agree you won't get the performance of an 0-320, I can go pretty
much any place they can cheaper but slower. I call it "the poor man's
plane" but most people think otherwise when they see the plane.

As Bob P. put it, there are a few of us with this setup and we do some
nice slow flying which is enjoyable too. Bye the way, Bob flew mine from
the factory in B.C.back in 93 for the original owner to Northern
Ontario, so he's got almost as much time logged on it as I do.

If I ever have the money, like winning the lotary or something, I might
go for something like the 912S for that little extra Ummmph!!!

Keep us posted of your results with the Suburu.

Aurele Lavigne
Rebel 063



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[Frank Arndt]

Thanks,
I think(hope) I will be happy with the performance. From my experience
with the nose-heavy Karatoo, I think that a well balanced aircraft will
perform beter than one of slightly higher HP but nose heavy. It seems a real
waste to have the tail push down only to have the main wing have to lift
things back up again!
What you said gives me some confidence. If you can fly with 80HP, on
floats, and still go up!! which would have to weigh/drag more than my
proposed setup! I would like a little more info on weight and balance with
the smaller engines. I am sure that your CofG is around the optimum for you
to get this performance.!

That must have been a long flight for Bob! at least if there were any bugs
with the 912, he would have found them on that trip..


----- Original Message -----
From: AURELE LAVIGNE <alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:24 PM
Subject: Small engines

I guess I can add my two cents, after that invite from Bob as I have the
912 in my Rebel. It wasn`t planned that way but I bought the fully
completed/used Rebel this way because;1-the price was right 2- it's
cheap to fly, operate and maintain as it's reg't as an AULA for one
thing 3-licensing was cheap also since I only needed a U/L.

Rick in Australia didn't beleive you could put floats on this setup, and
while I agree you won't get the performance of an 0-320, I can go pretty
much any place they can cheaper but slower. I call it "the poor man's
plane" but most people think otherwise when they see the plane.

As Bob P. put it, there are a few of us with this setup and we do some
nice slow flying which is enjoyable too. Bye the way, Bob flew mine from
the factory in B.C.back in 93 for the original owner to Northern
Ontario, so he's got almost as much time logged on it as I do.

If I ever have the money, like winning the lotary or something, I might
go for something like the 912S for that little extra Ummmph!!!

Keep us posted of your results with the Suburu.

Aurele Lavigne
Rebel 063



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[Bob Patterson]

Often, with the 912, builders are looking to add a bit of weight
forward - the battery on the firewall, extra large hoses cut to cover
the existing water & fuel hoses (to prevent wear & heating, as well as
add weight), etc. The EA-81 is probably just right for weight !
As long as you are within the wide CG range the factory allows, you will
have a GREAT flying airplane !

I flew the original 912 Rebel on the prototype Murphy 1500 floats,
and was very impressed. With 2 of us, and 3/4 tanks, it outperformed
an 85 HP Aeronca Super Chief by a fair bit ! Not in the same league as an
O-320 Rebel (NOTHING is ! ;-) ), but still quite adequate performance.
(We owned an 11-CC Super Chief, and a 15-AC Sedan, at the time ....)

The 912 on Aurele's Rebel had only about 6 hours on it when we left
Chilliwack ! It was FLAWLESS the whole trip. There is a write-up on
a trip I did last spring in a Subaru Rebel, from Georgia to New Hampshire,
in the archives at murphy-rebel. I think I still have a copy of the
article about that flight with the 912 U/L Rebel - I can add it to the
files, if anyone is interested .... (there are some photos, too).

Have flown through the Rockies several times with the 912 Rebel -
also to Florida and Quebec . We LOVE it !! :-)

Hurry up and get that Rebel flying, and you can come along on the
Rebel Ramble to the west Coast, this July !! :-)

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------------
At 08:45 AM 1/28/00 -0500, you wrote:

Thanks,
I think(hope) I will be happy with the performance. From my experience
with the nose-heavy Karatoo, I think that a well balanced aircraft will
perform beter than one of slightly higher HP but nose heavy. It seems a real
waste to have the tail push down only to have the main wing have to lift
things back up again!
What you said gives me some confidence. If you can fly with 80HP, on
floats, and still go up!! which would have to weigh/drag more than my
proposed setup! I would like a little more info on weight and balance with
the smaller engines. I am sure that your CofG is around the optimum for you
to get this performance.!

That must have been a long flight for Bob! at least if there were any bugs
with the 912, he would have found them on that trip..


----- Original Message -----
From: AURELE LAVIGNE <alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:24 PM
Subject: Small engines

I guess I can add my two cents, after that invite from Bob as I have the
912 in my Rebel. It wasn`t planned that way but I bought the fully
completed/used Rebel this way because;1-the price was right 2- it's
cheap to fly, operate and maintain as it's reg't as an AULA for one
thing 3-licensing was cheap also since I only needed a U/L.

Rick in Australia didn't beleive you could put floats on this setup, and
while I agree you won't get the performance of an 0-320, I can go pretty
much any place they can cheaper but slower. I call it "the poor man's
plane" but most people think otherwise when they see the plane.

As Bob P. put it, there are a few of us with this setup and we do some
nice slow flying which is enjoyable too. Bye the way, Bob flew mine from
the factory in B.C.back in 93 for the original owner to Northern
Ontario, so he's got almost as much time logged on it as I do.

If I ever have the money, like winning the lotary or something, I might
go for something like the 912S for that little extra Ummmph!!!

Keep us posted of your results with the Suburu.

Aurele Lavigne
Rebel 063



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[AURELE LAVIGNE]

Frank, I can`t help you out too much when it comes to the C.of G. or weight &
balance, Bob P. is certainly the guy than can give this type of info with his
years of experience with the Rebel and a 912. I can tell you that my empty
weight was recorded at 600lbs +/- on wheels and my floats weigh in at about 150
lbs, less the wheel gear. I have flown wheels, skis and floats and the Rebel
handles A-Ok in all configurations.

I usually fly with a min. of 10 gallons of fuel, pilot and passenger at around
375 to 400 lbs., another 40 to 50 lbs baggage in the back. While this might come
close to the legal limit for an AULA, the Rebel is rated at 1450 lbs gross with
a 912 regt`t otherwise.

The first two days of float training I noticed the Rebel handled very sloppy and
my instructor and I fought to pick it up out of the water and landings were not
pretty, and I first assumed it was the added weight & drag from the floats,
having no previous experience. On the third day I learned how to properly use
the manual float pump (you have to prime it?) and noticed both rear compartments
were taking on water. It's hard to say exactly how much extra weight we had, I
guess anywhere between 50 to 75 lbs and this is at the very rear. While it
didn't fly pretty, it flew!!! Once we had that out the way I was doing solo
take-offs and landings the same day.

I havn't done a weight and balance calculation since. Maybe if Bob provides more
specifics I'll take note and brush up on the calculations for safety's sake.

Good luck,

Aurele




Frank Arndt wrote:

Thanks,
I think(hope) I will be happy with the performance. From my experience
with the nose-heavy Karatoo, I think that a well balanced aircraft will
perform beter than one of slightly higher HP but nose heavy. It seems a real
waste to have the tail push down only to have the main wing have to lift
things back up again!
What you said gives me some confidence. If you can fly with 80HP, on
floats, and still go up!! which would have to weigh/drag more than my
proposed setup! I would like a little more info on weight and balance with
the smaller engines. I am sure that your CofG is around the optimum for you
to get this performance.!

That must have been a long flight for Bob! at least if there were any bugs
with the 912, he would have found them on that trip..

----- Original Message -----
From: AURELE LAVIGNE <alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2000 10:24 PM
Subject: Small engines

I guess I can add my two cents, after that invite from Bob as I have the
912 in my Rebel. It wasn`t planned that way but I bought the fully
completed/used Rebel this way because;1-the price was right 2- it's
cheap to fly, operate and maintain as it's reg't as an AULA for one
thing 3-licensing was cheap also since I only needed a U/L.

Rick in Australia didn't beleive you could put floats on this setup, and
while I agree you won't get the performance of an 0-320, I can go pretty
much any place they can cheaper but slower. I call it "the poor man's
plane" but most people think otherwise when they see the plane.

As Bob P. put it, there are a few of us with this setup and we do some
nice slow flying which is enjoyable too. Bye the way, Bob flew mine from
the factory in B.C.back in 93 for the original owner to Northern
Ontario, so he's got almost as much time logged on it as I do.

If I ever have the money, like winning the lotary or something, I might
go for something like the 912S for that little extra Ummmph!!!

Keep us posted of your results with the Suburu.

Aurele Lavigne
Rebel 063



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

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Aurele,

Watch that 1450lb gross item! This is fine for a "normal" Rebel that has 63
thou main spars and a rear spar with no lightening holes! Also must have the
thicker streamline wing strut! The AULA kits were sold with 50 thou mains
spars and a rear spar full of lightening holes. The wing strut being a
squashed light walled tube. Other than that the aircraft are identical
(other than some have fabric elevators/rudder) If anyone is going to push
the 1058lb limit for AULA's, I wouldn't go beyond 1200lbs. I want to meet
all of you someday and we can't afford to lose any of you!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca


P.S. Get that spinner on yet???

-----Original Message-----
From: AURELE LAVIGNE <alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Small engines

[AURELE LAVIGNE]

Wayne, thanks for reminding me about those differences, I do recall seeing tthat
information and you`re right of course, 1200 lbs or so is plenty and should
satisfy most users. I understand some day the gross weight for AULA`s will
increase to at least that to match basic ultralights but unlike basics, these
changes must be initiated by LAMAC and the process is a little more complex.

As for the spinner, I had to order bolts to accomodate the back plate and extra
washers and since then decided to put my GSC on for the winter as had no cruise
wtih my WD setup for floats. I guess I`ll order another one later when I have
tihe dow. It sure would be nice to have an in-flight adjustable and be done with
it. I noticed GSC is now making these and you can get just the hub if you
already have the blades. I don`t particularly like the longer wooden prop when
on floats so I`m waiting until someone makes one for my WD. Can`t wait till the
summer to see what it looks like though.

Bye for now,
Aurele

"Wayne G. O'Shea" wrote:

Aurele,

Watch that 1450lb gross item! This is fine for a "normal" Rebel that has 63
thou main spars and a rear spar with no lightening holes! Also must have the
thicker streamline wing strut! The AULA kits were sold with 50 thou mains
spars and a rear spar full of lightening holes. The wing strut being a
squashed light walled tube. Other than that the aircraft are identical
(other than some have fabric elevators/rudder) If anyone is going to push
the 1058lb limit for AULA's, I wouldn't go beyond 1200lbs. I want to meet
all of you someday and we can't afford to lose any of you!

Blue skies,
Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. Get that spinner on yet???

-----Original Message-----
From: AURELE LAVIGNE <alavigne@ntl.sympatico.ca>
To: (Murphy Rebel Builders List) <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, January 29, 2000 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: Small engines

.

I usually fly with a min. of 10 gallons of fuel, pilot and passenger at

around

375 to 400 lbs., another 40 to 50 lbs baggage in the back. While this might

come

close to the legal limit for an AULA, the Rebel is rated at 1450 lbs gross

with

a 912 regt`t otherwise.

Good luck,

Aurele

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