Wing building

Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 am

Mike Betti wrote:

What is the best procedure to riveting main skins to the wing. I think
MAM wants you to work from the center out, but with the fuel tank cover
already riveted down, that doesn't make sense to work toward something
that is already riveted.........?? That is in the case of the bottom.

If you mean the holes are already drilled and it's rivet pulling time
then I always put all the rivets in then pull one every couple of feet
then one in the middle of each pulled one, etc.

Also, I finished sealing the bottom tank cover down and then filling in
all the tank corners and such. I am leaving it to sit and dry now, how
long is necessary. I want to turn the wing back over and rivet the
bottom skin on, but afraid to disturb the drying joints in tank.

As long as it is firm enough that it doesn't sag from gravity I think
you are fine. You can't really disturb this stuff as it doesn't harden -
just gets firmer.

On the right wing top cover, the stringer seals that go on the inboard
rib are installed on the outside of the tank. The left wing tank has the
ribs in opposite direction, so the stringer seals will be on the inside
of the tank. What do I want to do here? Make the stringer seals to fit
the outside or inside of the tank? I don't know if I'm making any sense
here?

Whatever is easier. Some of us put a seal on both sides. Don't think it
really matters.

The control tube inside the wing, how easy should it move? I thought it
moved quite well when installing but now it seems to move harder.
Anybody have any general feel to how it should move? I expose no
lubricant should be use either?

Fairly easy. I sanded a lot with a drum in a drill and kind of wish I
had done a bit more. Make sure the wing is not twisted when you sand.
They do not get easier to move in service apparently. My tube was
slightly oval and I also carefully squeezed it a bit to try and make it
as round as I could. There is history on this in the archives but the
conclusion of our resident plastic expert (that would be Wayne O. ) was
that some 'Crown' brand silicone was a good thing on delrin but that was
the only thing. Don't use any other brand and be careful as any mist at
all on the aluminum will make it very very difficult to get paint adhesion.
Ken

Thanks for the help as usual
Mike Betti
771 Elite

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 am

Mike, absolutely nothing on the Delrin Bearings other than "Crown" Silcon
Spray product # 68034. !!! All you can do is trust me and the fact that I've
experimented with over 25 different brands/grades of silicon in both spray
and liquid forms (on the Delrin guys..on the Delrin!! LOL).

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: Wing building

What is the best procedure to riveting main skins to the wing. I think
MAM wants you to work from the center out, but with the fuel tank cover
already riveted down, that doesn't make sense to work toward something
that is already riveted.........?? That is in the case of the bottom.

Also, I finished sealing the bottom tank cover down and then filling in
all the tank corners and such. I am leaving it to sit and dry now, how
long is necessary. I want to turn the wing back over and rivet the
bottom skin on, but afraid to disturb the drying joints in tank.

On the right wing top cover, the stringer seals that go on the inboard
rib are installed on the outside of the tank. The left wing tank has the
ribs in opposite direction, so the stringer seals will be on the inside
of the tank. What do I want to do here? Make the stringer seals to fit
the outside or inside of the tank? I don't know if I'm making any sense
here?

The control tube inside the wing, how easy should it move? I thought it
moved quite well when installing but now it seems to move harder.
Anybody have any general feel to how it should move? I expose no
lubricant should be use either?

Thanks for the help as usual
Mike Betti
771 Elite

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bransom · Post by **bransom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 am

What is the best procedure to riveting main skins to the wing. I think
MAM wants you to work from the center out, but with the fuel tank cover
already riveted down, that doesn't make sense to work toward something
that is already riveted.........?? That is in the case of the bottom.

The main skin isn't already riveted -- just the tank skin -- so you could
start in the middle if you wanted to. You could put all the rivets in such
as Ken suggested, or, at least put in a few clecos, partly just to assure
that holes line up everywhere on the skin. I will do this on my second wing,
because on my first I found slight misalignment by the time I got to the
holes in the corner behind the top wing skin. (This might have happened
anyway, just from things being slightly different by the time the tank is
fully riveted with proseal -- it isn't too shocking that it might be slightly
different shape compared to match drilling with clecos and no proseal.)

-Ben Ransom/ 496R --working on left wing (after I finish my &%^*! taxes)

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Jones, Michael · Post by **Jones, Michael** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 am

what every you do make sure as many holes as possible are clecoed in place
before riveting or the skin will slowly stretch out of shape and you will be
screwed by the time you reach the end and holes wont match, if everything is
clecoed you can start riveting anywhere and it will all hold rigid, at least
that's what i did and my wings are pretty straight

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
bransom@dcsol.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:55 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Wing building

What is the best procedure to riveting main skins to the wing. I think
MAM wants you to work from the center out, but with the fuel tank cover
already riveted down, that doesn't make sense to work toward something
that is already riveted.........?? That is in the case of the bottom.

The main skin isn't already riveted -- just the tank skin -- so you could
start in the middle if you wanted to. You could put all the rivets in such
as Ken suggested, or, at least put in a few clecos, partly just to assure
that holes line up everywhere on the skin. I will do this on my second
wing,
because on my first I found slight misalignment by the time I got to the
holes in the corner behind the top wing skin. (This might have happened
anyway, just from things being slightly different by the time the tank is
fully riveted with proseal -- it isn't too shocking that it might be
slightly
different shape compared to match drilling with clecos and no proseal.)

-Ben Ransom/ 496R --working on left wing (after I finish my &%^*! taxes)

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carol and murray cherkas · Post by **carol and murray cherkas** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 am

I put my elevator on the wing and when held up and let go it freely fell
to the full down position. This took a bit of playing with the delrin
bearing bracket. There is very little room to play with. Just tweeking
it a little made a big difference in hte free movement of the elevator.

Good Luck
Murray
Rebel 505

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Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:23 am

Mike,
Use a lot of clecoes.
Before you pull the first rivet use your level to be absolutely sure the
wing is true with no twist.
Recheck the torque tube for ease.
Pull a few rivets and recheck true.
Use a 3/16" x 1/4" drive deep socket on a screwdriver type handle to
push home the recalcitrant rivets.
Dip each rivet in primer before insertion.
Rallph Baker

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

If you are going to use plastic use NYLON. DO NOT use PVC under any
circumstance. Just my opinion...but you can tell I mean it for a reason!

As for the nut plate question YES...it make even more sense to use them on
the Elite as there are more brackets to install/shim than the Rebel..but
sorry I have none left for sale.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

Nigel,
Thanks for your help. This is the great thing about the list server.
Someone has inevitably faced the same problem and has an answer. I
found that the CC-38s were splayed outward as received. A few gentle
swats with a deadblow hammer made them parallel to each other and
perpendicular to the center section. I had about a week's delay in
getting my message posted due to some incompatibilities between the
list server and my ISP - That is why the message was posted via Daryl
instead of directly from me. In that time I, too, decided to file
about 1/16 inch from the top and bottom flanges and to radius the
bottom flange.

Great idea of yours to move the doubler to the front of the spar for
fitting, and I will heed your advice on dimensions.

I like the idea of a tube to carry the wires. If I ever want to
replace a wire or add a wire, it will be much easier to pull it through
the tube. If not a metal tube, what kind of plastic? PVC is cheap and
readily available, but I have seen some discussion that it is nasty if
it burns. Another question is "What is the best location for the wires
to come out of the wing root?" I don't have a good feel for what
structures are in that area, and I haven't found any photos.
---------------Roger
On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:22 AM, N.Smith wrote:

Hi Roger

I had this exact problem yesterday, and after a bit of thought I ended
up as
follows...

Not all the CC-38s are the same, they all have the same structure and
radius's but the flanges are larger on some than on others.

With this in mind I drilled the 3 holes in each side flange as close
to the
radius as possible. Then I filed off the extra edge of the flange to
leave
absolute minimum land from the holes. Then I radiused the lower flange
edge
so it fits neatly in the radius at the bottom of the rear spar. This
makes
them fit in the space available on the spar.

Next trick is to ensure you hit the doubler plates when you drill
through
with sufficient land on them too.

To do this I removed the doublers from the rear of the spar, and
fastened
them to the front edge. Now the CC-38's can be positioned on the
doublers
and mine worked out exactly the same vertical size as the doubler when
I'd
trimmed down the flanges so when I was sure I had them centred I used
the
CC-38 as a drill guide and drilled through the doubler and rear spar.
Then I
simply removed the doubler and repositioned it again on the rear edge.
This
way you never find you have no land when you drill through the doubler.

The inboard and outboard flanges I left as is, although the outboard
CC-38
fitting position quoted of 1 11/16 was going to put the torque tube arm
linkage very close to the rib when finished so I upped that distance
by an
extra 1/16 when I positioned the outboard CC-38.

I plan on getting the collars drilled for the end linkages today
before I
have to go to work.

As far as the metal tube in the leading edge goes, I'm going for
either a
plastic conduit, or probably just clips at each nose rib to support a
wire
loom in free space. Metal tubes and vibration could probably lead to
short
circuits as insulation gets worn away on wires vibrating in the tube ?

Hope this makes sense, and good luck

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Sent: 10 January 2006 02:25
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

-------- Original Message --------
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:42:19 -0600
From: Roger Cole <rcole927@earthlink.net>

I am still trying to get some questions about wing building answered.
Would you please post the following message:

1. When I try to fit the bearing bases (CC-38) to the rear spar as
shown in Figure 8.9.2 of the instructions, the top of the CC-38 sits
about 5/16" above the top of the rear spar. Even if I push the CC-38
down so it rests on the bottom flange of the rear spar, the top of the
CC-38 sits about 1/8" above the top of the rear spar. Do I have the
wrong parts? If not, how can they be made to fit?

2. I am planning to run an aluminum tube the length of the leading
edge for electrical service to position lights, strobes, landing
lights, and taxi lights. How big should the aluminum tube be, 1/2"OD
or 3/4"OD? Should it be in front of the front spar, inside the
leading edge rib opening at the front or, close to the main spar?
Should it be high, low, or centered in the LE rib openings? Where is
the best place for the wires to come out at the wing root? I looked
in the archives but didn't find any photos.

3. I have seen references to installing one-sided nut plates for the
hinge brackets on the Rebel. Does it make sense to do the same on the
Elite?
Thanks!
-------------Roger, Elite 709E

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mbetti · Post by **mbetti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

I used them on my Elite. If I remember, the manual says to cut out some inspection holes in the bottom skin for access to the hinge bolts. I didn't cut them, figure I will cut them only if access is needed in the future. As for the wiring conduit, here on our diesel engines, they use the black split loom on all the wiring. We noticed that after about 5 years of heavy use, the ridges in the loom wear right through the insulation for the wires. Just an observation, maybe not a factor with an airplane, but it does happen.
Mike Betti
771 E

On Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:15:50 -0500, rebel-builders@dcsol.com said:

If you are going to use plastic use NYLON. DO NOT use PVC under any
circumstance. Just my opinion...but you can tell I mean it for a reason!

As for the nut plate question YES...it make even more sense to use them on
the Elite as there are more brackets to install/shim than the Rebel..but
sorry I have none left for sale.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

Nigel,
Thanks for your help. This is the great thing about the list server.
Someone has inevitably faced the same problem and has an answer. I
found that the CC-38s were splayed outward as received. A few gentle
swats with a deadblow hammer made them parallel to each other and
perpendicular to the center section. I had about a week's delay in
getting my message posted due to some incompatibilities between the
list server and my ISP - That is why the message was posted via Daryl
instead of directly from me. In that time I, too, decided to file
about 1/16 inch from the top and bottom flanges and to radius the
bottom flange.

Great idea of yours to move the doubler to the front of the spar for
fitting, and I will heed your advice on dimensions.

I like the idea of a tube to carry the wires. If I ever want to
replace a wire or add a wire, it will be much easier to pull it through
the tube. If not a metal tube, what kind of plastic? PVC is cheap and
readily available, but I have seen some discussion that it is nasty if
it burns. Another question is "What is the best location for the wires
to come out of the wing root?" I don't have a good feel for what
structures are in that area, and I haven't found any photos.
---------------Roger
On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:22 AM, N.Smith wrote:

Hi Roger

I had this exact problem yesterday, and after a bit of thought I ended
up as
follows...

Not all the CC-38s are the same, they all have the same structure and
radius's but the flanges are larger on some than on others.

With this in mind I drilled the 3 holes in each side flange as close
to the
radius as possible. Then I filed off the extra edge of the flange to
leave
absolute minimum land from the holes. Then I radiused the lower flange
edge
so it fits neatly in the radius at the bottom of the rear spar. This
makes
them fit in the space available on the spar.

Next trick is to ensure you hit the doubler plates when you drill
through
with sufficient land on them too.

To do this I removed the doublers from the rear of the spar, and
fastened
them to the front edge. Now the CC-38's can be positioned on the
doublers
and mine worked out exactly the same vertical size as the doubler when
I'd
trimmed down the flanges so when I was sure I had them centred I used
the
CC-38 as a drill guide and drilled through the doubler and rear spar.
Then I
simply removed the doubler and repositioned it again on the rear edge.
This
way you never find you have no land when you drill through the doubler.

The inboard and outboard flanges I left as is, although the outboard
CC-38
fitting position quoted of 1 11/16 was going to put the torque tube arm
linkage very close to the rib when finished so I upped that distance
by an
extra 1/16 when I positioned the outboard CC-38.

I plan on getting the collars drilled for the end linkages today
before I
have to go to work.

As far as the metal tube in the leading edge goes, I'm going for
either a
plastic conduit, or probably just clips at each nose rib to support a
wire
loom in free space. Metal tubes and vibration could probably lead to
short
circuits as insulation gets worn away on wires vibrating in the tube ?

Hope this makes sense, and good luck

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Sent: 10 January 2006 02:25
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

-------- Original Message --------
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:42:19 -0600
From: Roger Cole <rcole927@earthlink.net>

I am still trying to get some questions about wing building answered.
Would you please post the following message:
Thanks!
-------------Roger, Elite 709E

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bransom · Post by **bransom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

Roger,
Not sure if you got an answer to the tube questions... Here's a picture of
mine from the outboard wing end.
http://mae.ucdavis.edu/ransom/Murphy/F% ... 260069.JPG

I used 3/4" x .035 AL tube, fixed to every other LE rib by way of hangars I
made. I used proseal to bond the tube to the hangars (which are riveted to
the ribs). I left things a bit difficult at the root end by having the tube
stop about 3" before it gets to the root rib, and my thru-hole in the root
rib is offset from the tube a little. (I felt the tube would have exited the
root rib too high and near the main spar, so made the hole nearer to center
of LE rib.) I have a string in there now so I'll just have to pull thru the
wiring later. I think I made this a 3/4" hole too, and per Wayne's
recommendation, it has 5 or 6 rivets around its circumference to make up
strength from the hole. No picture uploaded now, but shout if you want one.
-Ben/ 496R

I like the idea of a tube to carry the wires. If I ever want to
replace a wire or add a wire, it will be much easier to pull it through
the tube. If not a metal tube, what kind of plastic? PVC is cheap and
readily available, but I have seen some discussion that it is nasty if
it burns. Another question is "What is the best location for the wires
to come out of the wing root?" I don't have a good feel for what
structures are in that area, and I haven't found any photos.
---------------Roger

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Roger Cole · Post by **Roger Cole** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

Thanks to everyone for their help.

I found a source for 3/4 OD, 5/8 ID HDPE tubing for US$0.42/ft. Much
cheaper than nylon. Is HDPE a good material for conduit?
------------Roger, Elite 709E
On Jan 10, 2006, at 10:15 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

If you are going to use plastic use NYLON. DO NOT use PVC under any
circumstance. Just my opinion...but you can tell I mean it for a
reason!

As for the nut plate question YES...it make even more sense to use
them on
the Elite as there are more brackets to install/shim than the
Rebel..but
sorry I have none left for sale.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

Nigel,
Thanks for your help. This is the great thing about the list server.
Someone has inevitably faced the same problem and has an answer. I
found that the CC-38s were splayed outward as received. A few gentle
swats with a deadblow hammer made them parallel to each other and
perpendicular to the center section. I had about a week's delay in
getting my message posted due to some incompatibilities between the
list server and my ISP - That is why the message was posted via Daryl
instead of directly from me. In that time I, too, decided to file
about 1/16 inch from the top and bottom flanges and to radius the
bottom flange.

Great idea of yours to move the doubler to the front of the spar for
fitting, and I will heed your advice on dimensions.

I like the idea of a tube to carry the wires. If I ever want to
replace a wire or add a wire, it will be much easier to pull it
through
the tube. If not a metal tube, what kind of plastic? PVC is cheap
and
readily available, but I have seen some discussion that it is nasty if
it burns. Another question is "What is the best location for the
wires
to come out of the wing root?" I don't have a good feel for what
structures are in that area, and I haven't found any photos.
---------------Roger
On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:22 AM, N.Smith wrote:

Hi Roger

I had this exact problem yesterday, and after a bit of thought I
ended
up as
follows...

Not all the CC-38s are the same, they all have the same structure and
radius's but the flanges are larger on some than on others.

With this in mind I drilled the 3 holes in each side flange as close
to the
radius as possible. Then I filed off the extra edge of the flange to
leave
absolute minimum land from the holes. Then I radiused the lower
flange
edge
so it fits neatly in the radius at the bottom of the rear spar. This
makes
them fit in the space available on the spar.

Next trick is to ensure you hit the doubler plates when you drill
through
with sufficient land on them too.

To do this I removed the doublers from the rear of the spar, and
fastened
them to the front edge. Now the CC-38's can be positioned on the
doublers
and mine worked out exactly the same vertical size as the doubler
when
I'd
trimmed down the flanges so when I was sure I had them centred I used
the
CC-38 as a drill guide and drilled through the doubler and rear spar.
Then I
simply removed the doubler and repositioned it again on the rear
edge.
This
way you never find you have no land when you drill through the
doubler.

The inboard and outboard flanges I left as is, although the outboard
CC-38
fitting position quoted of 1 11/16 was going to put the torque tube
arm
linkage very close to the rib when finished so I upped that distance
by an
extra 1/16 when I positioned the outboard CC-38.

I plan on getting the collars drilled for the end linkages today
before I
have to go to work.

As far as the metal tube in the leading edge goes, I'm going for
either a
plastic conduit, or probably just clips at each nose rib to support a
wire
loom in free space. Metal tubes and vibration could probably lead to
short
circuits as insulation gets worn away on wires vibrating in the tube
?

Hope this makes sense, and good luck

Nigel
745E

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Daryl C. W. O'Shea
Sent: 10 January 2006 02:25
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

-------- Original Message --------
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 19:42:19 -0600
From: Roger Cole <rcole927@earthlink.net>

I am still trying to get some questions about wing building answered.
Would you please post the following message:
Thanks!
-------------Roger, Elite 709E

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

HDPE should be okay. In the event of fire it doesn't burn with toxic
fumes/vapour like PVC.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Wing Building

Thanks to everyone for their help.

I found a source for 3/4 OD, 5/8 ID HDPE tubing for US$0.42/ft. Much
cheaper than nylon. Is HDPE a good material for conduit?
------------Roger, Elite 709E
On Jan 10, 2006, at 10:15 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

If you are going to use plastic use NYLON. DO NOT use PVC under any
circumstance. Just my opinion...but you can tell I mean it for a
reason!

As for the nut plate question YES...it make even more sense to use
them on
the Elite as there are more brackets to install/shim than the
Rebel..but
sorry I have none left for sale.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

Nigel,
Thanks for your help. This is the great thing about the list server.
Someone has inevitably faced the same problem and has an answer. I
found that the CC-38s were splayed outward as received. A few gentle
swats with a deadblow hammer made them parallel to each other and
perpendicular to the center section. I had about a week's delay in
getting my message posted due to some incompatibilities between the
list server and my ISP - That is why the message was posted via Daryl
instead of directly from me. In that time I, too, decided to file
about 1/16 inch from the top and bottom flanges and to radius the
bottom flange.

Great idea of yours to move the doubler to the front of the spar for
fitting, and I will heed your advice on dimensions.

I like the idea of a tube to carry the wires. If I ever want to
replace a wire or add a wire, it will be much easier to pull it
through
the tube. If not a metal tube, what kind of plastic? PVC is cheap
and
readily available, but I have seen some discussion that it is nasty if
it burns. Another question is "What is the best location for the
wires
to come out of the wing root?" I don't have a good feel for what
structures are in that area, and I haven't found any photos.
---------------Roger
On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:22 AM, N.Smith wrote:

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

That is what I used. 1/2" OD worked fine for me. It was quite easy to
pull six 18awg wires through it after the wing was finished although I
guess it was only about 8 or so feet long as I brought the wires down
the strut. I used the nylon bushings that Spruce sells for about 5 cents
instead of grommets as it allows smaller holes and is more permanent
IMO. The bushings were inserted in little triangles of aluminum riveted
to each rib on the forward side of the spar.
Ken

Roger Cole wrote:

Thanks to everyone for their help.

I found a source for 3/4 OD, 5/8 ID HDPE tubing for US$0.42/ft. Much
cheaper than nylon. Is HDPE a good material for conduit?
------------Roger, Elite 709E
On Jan 10, 2006, at 10:15 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

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Keith B. Oliver · Post by **Keith B. Oliver** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

How far would this fire be from the fuel tanks?? -----Fumes would not be a
major factor I would think.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 12:52 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Wing Building

HDPE should be okay. In the event of fire it doesn't burn with toxic
fumes/vapour like PVC.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Wing Building

Thanks to everyone for their help.

I found a source for 3/4 OD, 5/8 ID HDPE tubing for US$0.42/ft. Much
cheaper than nylon. Is HDPE a good material for conduit?
------------Roger, Elite 709E
On Jan 10, 2006, at 10:15 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

If you are going to use plastic use NYLON. DO NOT use PVC under any
circumstance. Just my opinion...but you can tell I mean it for a
reason!

As for the nut plate question YES...it make even more sense to use
them on
the Elite as there are more brackets to install/shim than the
Rebel..but
sorry I have none left for sale.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

Nigel,
Thanks for your help. This is the great thing about the list server.
Someone has inevitably faced the same problem and has an answer. I
found that the CC-38s were splayed outward as received. A few gentle
swats with a deadblow hammer made them parallel to each other and
perpendicular to the center section. I had about a week's delay in
getting my message posted due to some incompatibilities between the
list server and my ISP - That is why the message was posted via Daryl
instead of directly from me. In that time I, too, decided to file
about 1/16 inch from the top and bottom flanges and to radius the
bottom flange.

Great idea of yours to move the doubler to the front of the spar for
fitting, and I will heed your advice on dimensions.

I like the idea of a tube to carry the wires. If I ever want to
replace a wire or add a wire, it will be much easier to pull it
through
the tube. If not a metal tube, what kind of plastic? PVC is cheap
and
readily available, but I have seen some discussion that it is nasty if
it burns. Another question is "What is the best location for the
wires
to come out of the wing root?" I don't have a good feel for what
structures are in that area, and I haven't found any photos.
---------------Roger
On Jan 10, 2006, at 4:22 AM, N.Smith wrote:

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:41 pm

If by chance you have an electric wire burn thru (slim chance..but none the
less) PVC will smolder and does not need to burn via flame. PVC fumes are
VERY corrosive and all steel will be deep etch rusted. Haven't seen the
effects on aluminum...but I do know a 3" x 3 foot PVC tube smoldering in a
15,000 sq ft x 10 ceiling facility rusted every steel component/mould and
even QC equipment in a room seperate from the production area.. I know we
are talking wings, but any fumes in the cockpit will be life long heath
changing before you can land.

I don't see a conduit fire in the leading edge skin making it thru the .063
main spar to hit the fuel tanks..but then again I went with alum conduit for
above stated reasons and always will.

Just my two cents of hard learned knowledge. That burning pipe (actually a
parts sorting roller someone left on over a weekend) cost us over a week of
plant shut down, of a 24 hr/day facility and the insurance company over
$250K in clean up and tooling repairs. Take my advise for for what ever it's
worth.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith B. Oliver" <kb_oliver@verizon.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RE: Wing Building

How far would this fire be from the fuel tanks?? -----Fumes would not be a
major factor I would think.

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 12:52 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Wing Building

HDPE should be okay. In the event of fire it doesn't burn with toxic
fumes/vapour like PVC.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: Wing Building

Thanks to everyone for their help.

I found a source for 3/4 OD, 5/8 ID HDPE tubing for US$0.42/ft. Much
cheaper than nylon. Is HDPE a good material for conduit?
------------Roger, Elite 709E
On Jan 10, 2006, at 10:15 PM, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

If you are going to use plastic use NYLON. DO NOT use PVC under any
circumstance. Just my opinion...but you can tell I mean it for a
reason!

As for the nut plate question YES...it make even more sense to use
them on
the Elite as there are more brackets to install/shim than the
Rebel..but
sorry I have none left for sale.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Cole" <rcole927@earthlink.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: Questions from Roger Cole re: Wing Building

if

and

used

spar.

a

answered.

as

sits

the

looked

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