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Wings

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
Alan Hepburn

wings

Post by Alan Hepburn » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

Yep. It forms a fairly good gap seal with the top of the aileron. That's
why you use flush rivets on the ailerons in this area. In fact, you might
want to put a strip of Teflon tape in there.

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 10:40 PM
Subject: wings

Does the 2" of trailing top wing skin remain on the trailing edge of the
wings? Just kind of dangles there.
Mike Betti
771 Elite



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mbetti

Wings

Post by mbetti » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

I haven't read too far ahead on this subject, but at what point are the control surfaces fitted to the wing? Is it after mounting the wings to the fuselage or are they trial fitted prior? Just trying to stay organized.
Thanks,
Mike Betti
771E



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Ralph Baker

wings

Post by Ralph Baker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:20 am

Mike,
I would fit the flaps/ailerons while on the bench just to make sure the
hinges line up and nothing drags. Much easier than standing bent over
working up. There are other fitting points, such as the flap fairings,
that can only be checked after trial instalation but you will find them.
Ralph Baker



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mbetti

wings

Post by mbetti » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:24 am

What is the procedure being used out there to install the top skins?
Breifly:
1-install main skin with stingers attached, proseal stringers to inboard rib, remove main skin, proseal top tank on, install main skin.

2-proseal top tank skin with stingers already attached to wing, intall main skin afterward.

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



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Ken

wings

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:24 am

Mike

FWIW I'd recommend that you seal the tank completely before rivetting
the second wing skin. That will let you have good access to proseal the
outside of the tank. So yes if the bottom skin is already on I'd proseal
the top tank skin and stringers and seal the tank before installing the
top skin.

That will let you get to the outside of the tank where the top stringers
exit to get lots of proseal in that leakprone location. I think I also
flipped the wind upside down for a day after sealing the top to help
prevent the proseal from sagging there.

Ken

mbetti@up.net wrote:
What is the procedure being used out there to install the top skins?
Breifly:
1-install main skin with stingers attached, proseal stringers to inboard rib, remove main skin, proseal top tank on, install main skin.

2-proseal top tank skin with stingers already attached to wing, intall main skin afterward.

Thanks,
Mike Betti
771 Elite



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Mike Betti

wings

Post by Mike Betti » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

I been reading on installing the wings which I plan to do in the next couple weeks. It talks about drilling and reaming attach points to size prior to installing?? Or do I drill to say a 3/16 bolt initially, mount the wings, then final drill though all pieces? Any advice welcome, I don't want to mess this up.
Mike Betti
771E



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Ken

wings

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

I was cautious about this too so I blocked the fuselage and set each
wing on a section of scaffolding to hold them in position. Everything
fit pretty well but I wanted to make sure.

The AN6 bolts that I had needed a hole reamed to 0.372 for a snug fit
although 0.3725 would have also been OK.
I reamed the rear 1/4" hole 0.001 undersize and had to use close
tolerance AN174 bolts to get a snug fit.
One thou undersize was still too big for all the AN bolts that I had.
Ken

Mike Betti wrote:
I been reading on installing the wings which I plan to do in the next couple weeks. It talks about drilling and reaming attach points to size prior to installing?? Or do I drill to say a 3/16 bolt initially, mount the wings, then final drill though all pieces? Any advice welcome, I don't want to mess this up.
Mike Betti
771E





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Jesse Jenks

wings

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:33 pm

Per Ken's previous advice I am planning to not pre drill anything in case
the holes have to be moved slightly to fix wing for/aft or incidence
alignment problems. This would be done by filing in the desired direction
and then gradually drilling to final size. I have used this technique
several times on thinner parts and it does work well if you work carefully.
Jesse.

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: wings
Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 22:40:02 -0500

I was cautious about this too so I blocked the fuselage and set each
wing on a section of scaffolding to hold them in position. Everything
fit pretty well but I wanted to make sure.

The AN6 bolts that I had needed a hole reamed to 0.372 for a snug fit
although 0.3725 would have also been OK.
I reamed the rear 1/4" hole 0.001 undersize and had to use close
tolerance AN174 bolts to get a snug fit.
One thou undersize was still too big for all the AN bolts that I had.
Ken

Mike Betti wrote:
I been reading on installing the wings which I plan to do in the next
couple weeks. It talks about drilling and reaming attach points to size
prior to installing?? Or do I drill to say a 3/16 bolt initially, mount the
wings, then final drill though all pieces? Any advice welcome, I don't want
to mess this up.
Mike Betti
771E





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Keith Leitch

Wings

Post by Keith Leitch » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 pm

--- Keith & Valerie <keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
wrote:
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:51:18 -1000
From: "Keith & Valerie"
<keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
Subject: FW: Wings
To: "keith" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
It's been over a year and finally settled in a
different house. This
military transfer crap gets old. So need to get
back to work on the Rebel.

Just getting back to working on my kit and am
starting on the wings. Are
there any mods or improvements I should be aware
of before getting
started? I have tried going through the forum and
haven't found anything.
I have Fifes wing tips and plan on putting Angus's
cuff on when money
Angus.
Anything I should know of before I get started?
Thank you,
Keith
R661





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bransom

Wings

Post by bransom » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 pm

Keith,
Good to get your question as it prompted me to check again for any MAM
changes or Service Bulletins: http://www.murphyair.com/SUPPORT/Rebel.htm

I think especially on the wings, there is not much changed for several years,
and no "Ontario Mods" there. Recent news of course is of MAM offering
drooped wing tips, but there doesn't seem to be performance info out yet and
you have the Fife's anyway. You'll need to figure out somewhere in the
process where/how you'll run your lighting wires and pitot line and there is
stuff in the archives for this.

With a little luck I'll finish my wings in January. I spent a heckuva long
time figuring out how to do inspection holes and their related doublers,
caps, anchor nuts, etc. Definetly fell into the 'educational' part of
airplane building. I made several on scrap before liking the result.
Looking forward to getting to the fuselage!

-Ben/ R496

On 12/22/2005 3:54 PM, im_planecrazy@yahoo.com wrote to rebel-builders:

--- Keith & Valerie <keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
wrote:
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:51:18 -1000
From: "Keith & Valerie"
<keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
Subject: FW: Wings
To: "keith" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>
It's been over a year and finally settled in a
different house. This
military transfer crap gets old. So need to get
back to work on the Rebel.

Just getting back to working on my kit and am
starting on the wings. Are
there any mods or improvements I should be aware
of before getting
started? I have tried going through the forum and
haven't found anything.
I have Fifes wing tips and plan on putting Angus's
cuff on when money
Angus.
Anything I should know of before I get started?
Thank you,
Keith
R661




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Ken

Wings

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 pm

Hi Keith
There are 3 rivets on each leading edge that should be dimpled if you
are ever going to put Angus's leading edge cuff on. If Angus doesn't
describe them or you can't find them in the archives, I'll go check
which ones they are. I am not aware of any other wing mods. FWIW I
think Wray still has his modified version of the wing assembly manual
available on his site. It is better than MAM's. Things are better
ordered so you can save a few steps, his tank section is better, and he
has a few construction tips IIRC.
Ken

Keith Leitch wrote:
--- Keith & Valerie <keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
wrote:


Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:51:18 -1000
From: "Keith & Valerie"
<keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
Subject: FW: Wings
To: "keith" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>


It's been over a year and finally settled in a
different house. This
military transfer crap gets old. So need to get
back to work on the Rebel.

Just getting back to working on my kit and am
starting on the wings. Are
there any mods or improvements I should be aware
of before getting
started? I have tried going through the forum and
haven't found anything.
I have Fifes wing tips and plan on putting Angus's
cuff on when money
Angus.
Anything I should know of before I get started?
Thank you,
Keith
R661




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Wayne G. O'Shea

Wings

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 pm

Also may want to use some HIGH quality one lug anchor nuts at the rear spar
to flaperon hinge bracket attachments to allow easy install/removal for
shimming.

Sorry...but I shipped the last dozen of these I am going to this morning.
I've left myself way too short for stock as it is.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Wings

Hi Keith
There are 3 rivets on each leading edge that should be dimpled if you
are ever going to put Angus's leading edge cuff on. If Angus doesn't
describe them or you can't find them in the archives, I'll go check
which ones they are. I am not aware of any other wing mods. FWIW I
think Wray still has his modified version of the wing assembly manual
available on his site. It is better than MAM's. Things are better
ordered so you can save a few steps, his tank section is better, and he
has a few construction tips IIRC.
Ken

Keith Leitch wrote:
--- Keith & Valerie <keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
wrote:


Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:51:18 -1000
From: "Keith & Valerie"
<keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
Subject: FW: Wings
To: "keith" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>


It's been over a year and finally settled in a
different house. This
military transfer crap gets old. So need to get
back to work on the Rebel.

Just getting back to working on my kit and am
starting on the wings. Are
there any mods or improvements I should be aware
of before getting
started? I have tried going through the forum and
haven't found anything.
I have Fifes wing tips and plan on putting Angus's
cuff on when money
Angus.
Anything I should know of before I get started?
Thank you,
Keith
R661




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Jesse Jenks

Wings

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 pm

Ken,
I would like to know about the 3 dimpled rivets as well. It probably won't
help for the wing that is already done, but I will be putting the skins on
the second one in the next few days.
Thanks
Jesse

From: Ken <klehman@albedo.net>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Wings
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 07:52:32 -0500

Hi Keith
There are 3 rivets on each leading edge that should be dimpled if you
are ever going to put Angus's leading edge cuff on. If Angus doesn't
describe them or you can't find them in the archives, I'll go check
which ones they are. I am not aware of any other wing mods. FWIW I
think Wray still has his modified version of the wing assembly manual
available on his site. It is better than MAM's. Things are better
ordered so you can save a few steps, his tank section is better, and he
has a few construction tips IIRC.
Ken

Keith Leitch wrote:
--- Keith & Valerie <keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
wrote:


Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 14:51:18 -1000
From: "Keith & Valerie"
<keith.valerie.leitch@verizon.net>
Subject: FW: Wings
To: "keith" <im_planecrazy@yahoo.com>


It's been over a year and finally settled in a
different house. This
military transfer crap gets old. So need to get
back to work on the Rebel.

Just getting back to working on my kit and am
starting on the wings. Are
there any mods or improvements I should be aware
of before getting
started? I have tried going through the forum and
haven't found anything.
I have Fifes wing tips and plan on putting Angus's
cuff on when money
Angus.
Anything I should know of before I get started?
Thank you,
Keith
R661




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Alan Hepburn

Wings

Post by Alan Hepburn » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 pm

Keith:

There are a few things not covered in the instructions:

1) Wayne has a mode to replace the nuts on the aileron hinge attachments
with plate nuts. I didn't do this, but wish I had! Even with the
inspection plates, the regular nuts are very difficult to get at once the
skin is on the wing. Also, the plates under the hinges need to be as big
(vertically) as possible to keep some "meat" arond the holes.

2) You need to plan for your wiring. I took mine along the D shaped space
ahead of the leading edge spar, but you can only go as far as the strut that
way, as there really isn't enough space to get the wires around the forward
wing attach bolts tidily. If you go this way, install a connector block on
the front of the spar near the spar attach inspection covers before you
rivet the leading edge skin. In fact, install the wiring at this stage
too - much easier.

3) Install the strobe power packs on the rear of the spars near the tips
before final assembly of the wing. Use plate nuts. Install inspection
covers big enough to remove the power supply if it fails.

4) The book calls for self tapping screws right in to the wing skins to
secure the wing root fairings. This is crude. Much better to use Tinnerman
nuts. If you want to do this, let the tank skins protrude 5/8" at the root,
rather than the published 1/2". This leaves much more room to install the
nuts. Install 1 1/4" x .032" strips between the wing skins and the root
ribs elsewhere to provide a flange for nuts in these areas.

5) Trim the flanges off the inboard 1" of the lower stringers inside the
tank to let water flow through to the fuel drain.

6) I strongly recommend Princeton capacitive fuel gages instead of the sight
glasses in the kit. If you go this way, you have to get a mounting plate
machined up though.

7) Instead of fancy tank venting, just weld a piece of 1/4" brake line into
the fuel cap and bend it 90* into the wind.

8) When you put the top skin ion the tank, make a temporary top out of the
cut out piece of the wing skin, and cut holes between the rivet lines to let
your hands get inside the tank. Wax the inside of the temporary skin. Slap
on the Proseal and then cleco the temporary skin in place. Working through
the holes, make sure there's a nice fillet all around. When everything has
cured, remove the temporary skin, scuff up the Proseal surface, fill any
voids in the joint area, then Proseal the tank skin permanantly in place.
Stick some pieces of waxed skin material in the areas where the wing skin
will have to be slid unser the tank skin to keep the slits open.

9) You may want to secure the tips with plate nuts instead of rivets.

10) At least on the Elite, the tips have too much droop to match the
ailerons when they're lined up with the flaps in the reflex (full up)
position. I had to cut a slot in the tip from top ro bottom in line with
the aileron hinge line, then another longitutinal slot all the way to the
trailing edge, then line things up properly and re-glass the whole thing on
the inside

So, as usual, a few omissions in the Murphy book.

Al Hepburn





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Keith Leitch

Wings

Post by Keith Leitch » Sat Feb 18, 2012 2:36 pm

AL, Wayne and the rest that answered my questions on
any wing mods.
Thank you for the info.
And Wayne I got those lugs from you over a year ago so
thanks again.
Now if I can just get my butt in gear and get started
on those wings.
Thanks,
Keith



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