Hi Bob !
This is probably a good idea - the control force on the overhead
flap handle was pretty high, and it had extra length to reduce this -
made it fairly awkward.
Only consideration for some, with putting it on the floor, would be
to clear the handle for the hydraulic pump for the amphib floats. Not
likely a problem with the Montana floats, as you will have electrics,
most likely - but important for those who might use the Murphy 1800
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Elite repairs
-
Bob Andrews
Elite repairs
Bob,
Not sure where the hyd hand pump will go. Going w./ electric flaps is still
possible ... that would leave ample space for the hand pump ... but I like
the "mechanical" johnson bar setup .. guess the hand pump location is
currently TBD. Know the elctric hyd pump for the gear is going back by the
battery.
What's the story on the triangle inserts for the Rebels?
Bob 612e
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 7:37 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Hi Bob !
This is probably a good idea - the control force on the overhead
flap handle was pretty high, and it had extra length to reduce this -
made it fairly awkward.
Only consideration for some, with putting it on the floor, would be
to clear the handle for the hydraulic pump for the amphib floats. Not
likely a problem with the Montana floats, as you will have electrics,
most likely - but important for those who might use the Murphy 1800
Not sure where the hyd hand pump will go. Going w./ electric flaps is still
possible ... that would leave ample space for the hand pump ... but I like
the "mechanical" johnson bar setup .. guess the hand pump location is
currently TBD. Know the elctric hyd pump for the gear is going back by the
battery.
What's the story on the triangle inserts for the Rebels?
Bob 612e
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 7:37 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Hi Bob !
This is probably a good idea - the control force on the overhead
flap handle was pretty high, and it had extra length to reduce this -
made it fairly awkward.
Only consideration for some, with putting it on the floor, would be
to clear the handle for the hydraulic pump for the amphib floats. Not
likely a problem with the Montana floats, as you will have electrics,
most likely - but important for those who might use the Murphy 1800
-
Bob Patterson
Elite repairs
Hi Bob !
I agree - I like the old Johnson bar too ! Maybe you could put
them both between the seats - different handles & lengths, since you
won
I agree - I like the old Johnson bar too ! Maybe you could put
them both between the seats - different handles & lengths, since you
won
-
Alan Hepburn
Elite repairs
Bob:
See my pics in the Elite section for a couple of solutions. The hand pump
is in a central console under the instrument panel, and the flaps, while
mine are electric, could be done the same way but use a handle. The Moose
has a flap handle on the floor.
Al.
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See my pics in the Elite section for a couple of solutions. The hand pump
is in a central console under the instrument panel, and the flaps, while
mine are electric, could be done the same way but use a handle. The Moose
has a flap handle on the floor.
Al.
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Gilles St-Pierre
Elite repairs
,Bob,
we re exactly going in th esame direction regarding flap handle location. We
too are looking to put it on the floor. We will keep the guys informed with
our develop in a week or two. Would appreciate iny inputs.
thanks
gilles e717
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we re exactly going in th esame direction regarding flap handle location. We
too are looking to put it on the floor. We will keep the guys informed with
our develop in a week or two. Would appreciate iny inputs.
thanks
gilles e717
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Bob Andrews
Elite repairs
Thanks Al ... I'll check them out the pics. How close are you to flying?
Are you starting out w/ the amphibs or on conventional gear? Bob.
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:51 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Bob:
See my pics in the Elite section for a couple of solutions. The hand pump
is in a central console under the instrument panel, and the flaps, while
mine are electric, could be done the same way but use a handle. The Moose
has a flap handle on the floor.
Al.
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Are you starting out w/ the amphibs or on conventional gear? Bob.
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:51 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Bob:
See my pics in the Elite section for a couple of solutions. The hand pump
is in a central console under the instrument panel, and the flaps, while
mine are electric, could be done the same way but use a handle. The Moose
has a flap handle on the floor.
Al.
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Bob Andrews
Elite repairs
Al,
Your posted pics are most helpful w/r to things I've been thinking about.
Particularly the rudder pedal floor area. The floor deflects some when the
brakes are applied ... didn't like the spongy feel it gave to the brakes,
and we plan to address that too. I see from your floor pics that you saw it
the same way, and made good mods to stiffen it up. Something I did notice
about your brakes, and it may not be a factor, but just the angle the pic
was taken. It looks like from the instrument panel pic (nice panel by the
way), that the lower horns at the bottom square tube pivit for the left most
rudder pedal is pointing straight up. If this puppy ever goes over center
... the pedals will lock up ... something Keith showed me as I'm working
with that now. Your sky lights (and stiffeners) look GREAT ... plan to put
stiffeners up there too. My panel doesn't have the center "floor to panel"
counsel ... so the hand pump will be installed somewhere else. Meanwhile
I'm tackling the carry thru and other repair stuff. Learned a lot from your
pics ... thanks for posting them ... :-)
Bob 612e
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:51 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Bob:
See my pics in the Elite section for a couple of solutions. The hand pump
is in a central console under the instrument panel, and the flaps, while
mine are electric, could be done the same way but use a handle. The Moose
has a flap handle on the floor.
Al.
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Your posted pics are most helpful w/r to things I've been thinking about.
Particularly the rudder pedal floor area. The floor deflects some when the
brakes are applied ... didn't like the spongy feel it gave to the brakes,
and we plan to address that too. I see from your floor pics that you saw it
the same way, and made good mods to stiffen it up. Something I did notice
about your brakes, and it may not be a factor, but just the angle the pic
was taken. It looks like from the instrument panel pic (nice panel by the
way), that the lower horns at the bottom square tube pivit for the left most
rudder pedal is pointing straight up. If this puppy ever goes over center
... the pedals will lock up ... something Keith showed me as I'm working
with that now. Your sky lights (and stiffeners) look GREAT ... plan to put
stiffeners up there too. My panel doesn't have the center "floor to panel"
counsel ... so the hand pump will be installed somewhere else. Meanwhile
I'm tackling the carry thru and other repair stuff. Learned a lot from your
pics ... thanks for posting them ... :-)
Bob 612e
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Thursday, February 17, 2005 4:51 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Bob:
See my pics in the Elite section for a couple of solutions. The hand pump
is in a central console under the instrument panel, and the flaps, while
mine are electric, could be done the same way but use a handle. The Moose
has a flap handle on the floor.
Al.
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Alan Hepburn
Elite repairs
Bob:
Yes, there is an over centre possibility with the pedals. You have to
arrage the geometry so that can't happen.
To stiffen up the floor on a retrofit application, Sean white attaches a
piece of aluminum angle to the outside of the floor. The front end is
riveted right through the lower engine mounts, and the back end is riveted
right in to the forward 2 x 2. Much easier than my fix on an existing
airplane. The only negative I've found on the double floor is that once the
lower engine mount is riveted in place, the only way to get the bolt out of
it is to remove the whole mount. Unfortunately, the length of these bolts
recommended by MAM is about 1/8" too long, at least for the mount they sent
me. I just used a couple of extra washers. The bolt is primarily under
tension, so I figure that's OK.
BTW, I also put solid blocks inside the 2x2s at the outboard gear attach
bolts. I didn't see any in your pictures, but they may have been removed.
That, I gather, is a pretty common addition.
Glad the pics were a help.
Regards, Al
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Yes, there is an over centre possibility with the pedals. You have to
arrage the geometry so that can't happen.
To stiffen up the floor on a retrofit application, Sean white attaches a
piece of aluminum angle to the outside of the floor. The front end is
riveted right through the lower engine mounts, and the back end is riveted
right in to the forward 2 x 2. Much easier than my fix on an existing
airplane. The only negative I've found on the double floor is that once the
lower engine mount is riveted in place, the only way to get the bolt out of
it is to remove the whole mount. Unfortunately, the length of these bolts
recommended by MAM is about 1/8" too long, at least for the mount they sent
me. I just used a couple of extra washers. The bolt is primarily under
tension, so I figure that's OK.
BTW, I also put solid blocks inside the 2x2s at the outboard gear attach
bolts. I didn't see any in your pictures, but they may have been removed.
That, I gather, is a pretty common addition.
Glad the pics were a help.
Regards, Al
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Bob Andrews
Elite repairs
Al,
We talked about doing a similar external floor mod. Since the inside floor
area is apart, think a solution like yours will work well too. We're
installing solid blocks in the carry thru ends as you did ... the crush
tubes that were in there originally got pretty well "crushed". I put the
pilot seat in the other day, and sat in the plane for the first time ...
everyone told me to shut up ... said the engine sounded way sick ... I
thought it sounded pretty good ... :+}. Today's plan is to install the
rudder and cables to the pedals, and get all that squared away. Murphy sure
designed a big blunt nose on the rudder ... hmmmm. Have you picked out a
paint scheme for your Elite?
Bob 612E
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:50 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Bob:
Yes, there is an over centre possibility with the pedals. You have to
arrage the geometry so that can't happen.
To stiffen up the floor on a retrofit application, Sean white attaches a
piece of aluminum angle to the outside of the floor. The front end is
riveted right through the lower engine mounts, and the back end is riveted
right in to the forward 2 x 2. Much easier than my fix on an existing
airplane. The only negative I've found on the double floor is that once the
lower engine mount is riveted in place, the only way to get the bolt out of
it is to remove the whole mount. Unfortunately, the length of these bolts
recommended by MAM is about 1/8" too long, at least for the mount they sent
me. I just used a couple of extra washers. The bolt is primarily under
tension, so I figure that's OK.
BTW, I also put solid blocks inside the 2x2s at the outboard gear attach
bolts. I didn't see any in your pictures, but they may have been removed.
That, I gather, is a pretty common addition.
Glad the pics were a help.
Regards, Al
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We talked about doing a similar external floor mod. Since the inside floor
area is apart, think a solution like yours will work well too. We're
installing solid blocks in the carry thru ends as you did ... the crush
tubes that were in there originally got pretty well "crushed". I put the
pilot seat in the other day, and sat in the plane for the first time ...
everyone told me to shut up ... said the engine sounded way sick ... I
thought it sounded pretty good ... :+}. Today's plan is to install the
rudder and cables to the pedals, and get all that squared away. Murphy sure
designed a big blunt nose on the rudder ... hmmmm. Have you picked out a
paint scheme for your Elite?
Bob 612E
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:50 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
Bob:
Yes, there is an over centre possibility with the pedals. You have to
arrage the geometry so that can't happen.
To stiffen up the floor on a retrofit application, Sean white attaches a
piece of aluminum angle to the outside of the floor. The front end is
riveted right through the lower engine mounts, and the back end is riveted
right in to the forward 2 x 2. Much easier than my fix on an existing
airplane. The only negative I've found on the double floor is that once the
lower engine mount is riveted in place, the only way to get the bolt out of
it is to remove the whole mount. Unfortunately, the length of these bolts
recommended by MAM is about 1/8" too long, at least for the mount they sent
me. I just used a couple of extra washers. The bolt is primarily under
tension, so I figure that's OK.
BTW, I also put solid blocks inside the 2x2s at the outboard gear attach
bolts. I didn't see any in your pictures, but they may have been removed.
That, I gather, is a pretty common addition.
Glad the pics were a help.
Regards, Al
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Alan Hepburn
Elite repairs
No paint scheme. I plan to fly it for the first season without painting it.
Then if I have to cut up the cowl to improve cooling, it won't hurt so much.
I figure I have to run it through the heat of the summer to be sure the
present setup is OK. I have installed the Vans baffles (which provide a
better seal across the front of the engine) and have a good large exit area
with a cowl lip, but may still need to expand the inlets. I hope not,
because that is fairly major surgery. Also see how that mod to the elevator
spades works out. What was your experience with engine cooling?
If you're interested, I can post some pics on the 2200 installation, but
Keith may already have shown them to you. My hydraulic pump is back with
him to fix a problem with high pressure (250 psi) in the return line.
Al
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Then if I have to cut up the cowl to improve cooling, it won't hurt so much.
I figure I have to run it through the heat of the summer to be sure the
present setup is OK. I have installed the Vans baffles (which provide a
better seal across the front of the engine) and have a good large exit area
with a cowl lip, but may still need to expand the inlets. I hope not,
because that is fairly major surgery. Also see how that mod to the elevator
spades works out. What was your experience with engine cooling?
If you're interested, I can post some pics on the 2200 installation, but
Keith may already have shown them to you. My hydraulic pump is back with
him to fix a problem with high pressure (250 psi) in the return line.
Al
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Bob Andrews
Elite repairs
Al,
Roger all on the paint scheme. I don't have any personal experience flying
my Elite (not counting the hangar flights that is) ... and don't recall
seeing anything on engine cooling issues in the flight logs for the 42 hrs
TT ... but will revisit. Nope, haven't seen pics of your Elite on floats or
the installation ... so yes, please post some ... in the E-Float
Installations section ... look forward to seeing them.
Cheers,
Bob 612E
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 7:54 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
No paint scheme. I plan to fly it for the first season without painting it.
Then if I have to cut up the cowl to improve cooling, it won't hurt so much.
I figure I have to run it through the heat of the summer to be sure the
present setup is OK. I have installed the Vans baffles (which provide a
better seal across the front of the engine) and have a good large exit area
with a cowl lip, but may still need to expand the inlets. I hope not,
because that is fairly major surgery. Also see how that mod to the elevator
spades works out. What was your experience with engine cooling?
If you're interested, I can post some pics on the 2200 installation, but
Keith may already have shown them to you. My hydraulic pump is back with
him to fix a problem with high pressure (250 psi) in the return line.
Al
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Roger all on the paint scheme. I don't have any personal experience flying
my Elite (not counting the hangar flights that is) ... and don't recall
seeing anything on engine cooling issues in the flight logs for the 42 hrs
TT ... but will revisit. Nope, haven't seen pics of your Elite on floats or
the installation ... so yes, please post some ... in the E-Float
Installations section ... look forward to seeing them.
Cheers,
Bob 612E
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Alan Hepburn
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 7:54 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Elite repairs
No paint scheme. I plan to fly it for the first season without painting it.
Then if I have to cut up the cowl to improve cooling, it won't hurt so much.
I figure I have to run it through the heat of the summer to be sure the
present setup is OK. I have installed the Vans baffles (which provide a
better seal across the front of the engine) and have a good large exit area
with a cowl lip, but may still need to expand the inlets. I hope not,
because that is fairly major surgery. Also see how that mod to the elevator
spades works out. What was your experience with engine cooling?
If you're interested, I can post some pics on the 2200 installation, but
Keith may already have shown them to you. My hydraulic pump is back with
him to fix a problem with high pressure (250 psi) in the return line.
Al
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Bob Andrews
Elite Repairs
For those Elitists that are interested, thought I'd provide a brief update
on the repair/mod status of e612.
In the process of working on the plane, I haven't taken as many pictures as
I planned ... but there are several on my site www.aacnet.com/elite.
The carry thru's are in (yippy skippy), right side skin repairs are almost
done, and the aft float fitting attach points are being moved forward one
station to make the aft float struts for the MFC 2200 amphibs vertical
rather then sloping back (some pics of this are in the "Latest" link).
Core fuselage tasks still in work include:
Tail wraps.
Upper forward empennage wrap.
Installation of aft float fittings and associated modifications.
Making and installing new 0.032 forward bottom fuselage wraps.
Making and installing new 0.025 forward fuselage side skins.
Making and installing new cabin roof skin (aft of sky light windows).
Also remaining are the flap controls, modifying forward cabin floor (like
the way you did yours Al ... and am doing the same), lower brake cyl attach
points to floor, forming light weight stiffener ribs for cabin ceiling near
sky light windows to maintain curved profile, bulkhead repairs and
modifications at top corners of aft door post station (for spring attach and
shoulder harnesses), and making and installing sea plane doors.
Getting there ... but still much to do ... :-))
Cheers,
Bob e612
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on the repair/mod status of e612.
In the process of working on the plane, I haven't taken as many pictures as
I planned ... but there are several on my site www.aacnet.com/elite.
The carry thru's are in (yippy skippy), right side skin repairs are almost
done, and the aft float fitting attach points are being moved forward one
station to make the aft float struts for the MFC 2200 amphibs vertical
rather then sloping back (some pics of this are in the "Latest" link).
Core fuselage tasks still in work include:
Tail wraps.
Upper forward empennage wrap.
Installation of aft float fittings and associated modifications.
Making and installing new 0.032 forward bottom fuselage wraps.
Making and installing new 0.025 forward fuselage side skins.
Making and installing new cabin roof skin (aft of sky light windows).
Also remaining are the flap controls, modifying forward cabin floor (like
the way you did yours Al ... and am doing the same), lower brake cyl attach
points to floor, forming light weight stiffener ribs for cabin ceiling near
sky light windows to maintain curved profile, bulkhead repairs and
modifications at top corners of aft door post station (for spring attach and
shoulder harnesses), and making and installing sea plane doors.
Getting there ... but still much to do ... :-))
Cheers,
Bob e612
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Alan Hepburn
Elite Repairs
Bob:
When you do the floor the way I did, and attach the bottom of the master
cylinders to the floor, they actually require a bridge across the motor
mounts (at least if you have the pedals as far forward as mine they do).
The position of that lower pivot point is pretty critical, too. I made
several out of thin material until I got it right, then switched to 050, I
think it was. Also, as somebody pointed out the other day, make sure your
rudder pedals can't get in to an over-centre situation. That would spoil
your whole day. The easiest way to guarantee this is to scarp the right
side brake pedals, but I haven't done that yet.
The other caveat about that flor is that once you install the lower engine
mount bolts, ther is no way to get them out without de-riveting the bracket,
so make sure you've got the right length. The MAM-specified bolts were too
long for the engine mount they sent me.
Al.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Andrews" <robert@montanasky.us>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 2:32 PM
Subject: Elite Repairs
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When you do the floor the way I did, and attach the bottom of the master
cylinders to the floor, they actually require a bridge across the motor
mounts (at least if you have the pedals as far forward as mine they do).
The position of that lower pivot point is pretty critical, too. I made
several out of thin material until I got it right, then switched to 050, I
think it was. Also, as somebody pointed out the other day, make sure your
rudder pedals can't get in to an over-centre situation. That would spoil
your whole day. The easiest way to guarantee this is to scarp the right
side brake pedals, but I haven't done that yet.
The other caveat about that flor is that once you install the lower engine
mount bolts, ther is no way to get them out without de-riveting the bracket,
so make sure you've got the right length. The MAM-specified bolts were too
long for the engine mount they sent me.
Al.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Andrews" <robert@montanasky.us>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 2:32 PM
Subject: Elite Repairs
asFor those Elitists that are interested, thought I'd provide a brief update
on the repair/mod status of e612.
In the process of working on the plane, I haven't taken as many pictures
attachI planned ... but there are several on my site www.aacnet.com/elite.
The carry thru's are in (yippy skippy), right side skin repairs are almost
done, and the aft float fitting attach points are being moved forward one
station to make the aft float struts for the MFC 2200 amphibs vertical
rather then sloping back (some pics of this are in the "Latest" link).
Core fuselage tasks still in work include:
Tail wraps.
Upper forward empennage wrap.
Installation of aft float fittings and associated modifications.
Making and installing new 0.032 forward bottom fuselage wraps.
Making and installing new 0.025 forward fuselage side skins.
Making and installing new cabin roof skin (aft of sky light windows).
Also remaining are the flap controls, modifying forward cabin floor (like
the way you did yours Al ... and am doing the same), lower brake cyl
nearpoints to floor, forming light weight stiffener ribs for cabin ceiling
andsky light windows to maintain curved profile, bulkhead repairs and
modifications at top corners of aft door post station (for spring attach
shoulder harnesses), and making and installing sea plane doors.
Getting there ... but still much to do ... :-))
Cheers,
Bob e612
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