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painting

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
Falcon

painting

Post by Falcon » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:24 pm

Make that 1 1/2 quarts for the top coat.
Rebel 404R

Falcon wrote:
Standard Rebel S/N 404R.
The painting has finally started. I began with the 5 loose tail pieces.
This comprises about 100 sq ft of area and I wanted to test out what
quantities of paint is required to get this done. The first step was to
scotchbrite everything with a caustic soda etch. I then water rinsed and
air dried all parts. A wipe with prep-sol completed the prep work. I
would not fill the heads of the rivets until painting is complete and
then would go back and put just enough paint in the hole to cover the
broken stem. My first layer of paint was Dupont 615S variprime using
616S mid converter. I was advised by Dupont never to use the 620S fast
converter if temp is over 70 F. The supply shop wanted to sell me the
620S because that is the one that they sell the most of. I had some
limited experience with that and it wants to cure when you are pouring
it into the paint cup.( if you use the fast converter.) This mixed
material is very heavy and I had some problems getting started. I will
use a little reducer the next time to help it flow. I did get it to go
on wet. Most of my problems came from being unfamiliar with the
equipment. The LEX- AIRE HVLP gun was purchased at a flea market and I
was unsure of it's operation. I also used a new 2 quart pressure cup to
compound my problem of unfamiliarity. I mixed 1 quart at first to try
things out and it went fairly well. When I finished with that quart I
mixed another and put in the pot without cleaning the pressure pot. I
think this is why my problems began. Surfice it to say that eventually I
overcame these problems but not without a lot of frustration. I used 2
1/2 quarts (ready to spray) to put the 2 medium coats on. Today I added
the IMRON top coat (matterhorn white). Caution, you must use a full face
fresh air mask when working with these paints. My calculations called
for two quarts to be used but things went much better and I used only 1
1/4 quarts(RTS). At first I got a little orange peel but for the most
part everything went OK. Maybe some color sanding will touch up a few
areas up. I used the material mixed as required and added 5 % reducer.
It was 80 deg F in the garage today. I think the wings will go better.
The prep for the wings will be done this week and I hope during the week
I will be able to shoot 1 of the wings and have them both done by next
Sat.
Rick D.

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brian amendala

Painting

Post by brian amendala » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:08 pm

Hey everyone, I have been flying my rebel for about 2 years without paint
and am ready to put some color on her. I need suggestions as to what to use
to clean the aluminum for the paint prep. Also what is best for etching?
If any painter out there could give me the total process I would really
appreciate it. Remember I have been flying it for 2 years without paint, so
it is pretty dirty.

Thanks Brian

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Bob Patterson

Painting

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:08 pm

Hi Brian !

I'm a bit ahead of you - flying 3 years .... Plan to paint
now moved to September, because we'll be too busy Rambling to both
coasts this summer ! :-) :-)

The drill is - wash thoroughly with soap - no wax, then wash
with AlumiPrep & scrub with ScotchBrite pads while wet. Rinse VERY
thoroughly !! Dry, then spray on primer to suit your "paint system".
Then paint. Best if parts are hanging vertically...

I'll be using R-M brand paint, type "UNA" - it's a 2 part
epoxy enamel that gives a fair shine, good durability and flexibility,
and isn't toooo expensive. Applied with HVLP spray system - lots of
paint, not too much air - flows on (even into rivets) and covers.
This is a professional automotive paint, sort of the 'middle of
the product line' for R-M. I will be taking the job to professionals -
don't want to risk my life with that toxic spray !

I mentioned 'paint system' because most manufacturers insist
that you use their primer with their paint - mix 'n match can be
messy !! (Remember those 'peeling' GM products several years back ??!!!)

I've just had the McKenzie STOL kit installed - had it painted
red before installation, so I get a preview - it's going to be sharp ! :-)

Good luck !
......bobp

------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 06:22 PM 6/5/03 -0700, you wrote:
Hey everyone, I have been flying my rebel for about 2 years without paint
and am ready to put some color on her. I need suggestions as to what to use
to clean the aluminum for the paint prep. Also what is best for etching?
If any painter out there could give me the total process I would really
appreciate it. Remember I have been flying it for 2 years without paint, so
it is pretty dirty.

Thanks Brian

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Paul Michel

Painting

Post by Paul Michel » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Group:

Well, I finally have gotten back to the reality of homebuilding.

Moved the fuselage & flight controls to the hanger and as I was working
late last Saturday night getting ready to set up a paint shop. The
local 'airport authority' stopped by & informed me that if I continued
with my present course of action I would most definitely be answering to
the 'government' concerning violations of OSHA, EPA etc. Seems like the
feds (the other feds that is) are on the warpath in So. Florida.

Long story short, the fuselage is now back in the garage waiting for the
dew point to drop to a respectable level. Seems this new compressor
spews a lot of water if worked to hard. Anyone have a better solution
than moving it into the house where the humidity is lower? I sure don't
want to have to invest in a dryer for one paint job.

Any suggestion on Imron with a HVLP gun?

Paul Michel
Rebel # 374


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klehman

Painting

Post by klehman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Hi Paul

I haven't had any water issues with the turbine powered HVLP yet but
I've only used it a few times.

For the compressor powered units I think the condensation mostly occurs
at the point that you drop the pressure. With a regular gun I used to
run a pressure dropping regulator in the line out of the compressor tank
with a filter separator immediately after the regulator. That would get
most of it. The pressure drop at the gun is less that way. Multiple
tanks seemed to help a little too as each tank seemed to collect some of
the moisture. I think you are still going to need a fairly dry day
though or go to a turbine powered unit unless you find a drier. One
drier that I've seen is just a pipe filled with maybe 10 lbs or so of
dessicant.

Ken

Paul Michel wrote:
Group:

Well, I finally have gotten back to the reality of homebuilding.

Moved the fuselage & flight controls to the hanger and as I was working
late last Saturday night getting ready to set up a paint shop. The
local 'airport authority' stopped by & informed me that if I continued
with my present course of action I would most definitely be answering to
the 'government' concerning violations of OSHA, EPA etc. Seems like the
feds (the other feds that is) are on the warpath in So. Florida.

Long story short, the fuselage is now back in the garage waiting for the
dew point to drop to a respectable level. Seems this new compressor
spews a lot of water if worked to hard. Anyone have a better solution
than moving it into the house where the humidity is lower? I sure don't
want to have to invest in a dryer for one paint job.

Any suggestion on Imron with a HVLP gun?

Paul Michel
Rebel # 374


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Drew Dalgleish

Painting

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

On many compessors you can add pipe for a remote intake. Could you take
your intake air from inside the house while leaving the compressor outside?
Make sure you use a forced air respirator not just a filter mask even when
mixing the paint and admiring your work afterwards.
Drew

At 03:45 PM 10/5/2003 -0400, you wrote:
Group:

Well, I finally have gotten back to the reality of homebuilding.

Moved the fuselage & flight controls to the hanger and as I was working
late last Saturday night getting ready to set up a paint shop. The
local 'airport authority' stopped by & informed me that if I continued
with my present course of action I would most definitely be answering to
the 'government' concerning violations of OSHA, EPA etc. Seems like the
feds (the other feds that is) are on the warpath in So. Florida.

Long story short, the fuselage is now back in the garage waiting for the
dew point to drop to a respectable level. Seems this new compressor
spews a lot of water if worked to hard. Anyone have a better solution
than moving it into the house where the humidity is lower? I sure don't
want to have to invest in a dryer for one paint job.

Any suggestion on Imron with a HVLP gun?

Paul Michel
Rebel # 374


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Drew Dalgleish




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Bill Delcambre

Painting

Post by Bill Delcambre » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Paul,

Shooting Imron with a HVLP works great. In So. Louisiana, I've got the
same problems with humidity as you do. The turbine compressor produces hot
air that will not condense moisture. Yeah, guys, I understand the concept
of hot air being able to hold more moisture, but the moisture won't condense
until you cool it, which doesn't happen when spraying. Another unsolicited
opinion; Martin Senor's Ureglo has given me better results than Imron.
This is probably because I'm an inexperienced, clutsy painter, but that
might be why I like it; very forgiving. Costs less, too.

Bill Delcambre

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Michel" <micreb@bellsouth.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:45 PM
Subject: Painting

Group:

Well, I finally have gotten back to the reality of homebuilding.

Moved the fuselage & flight controls to the hanger and as I was working
late last Saturday night getting ready to set up a paint shop. The
local 'airport authority' stopped by & informed me that if I continued
with my present course of action I would most definitely be answering to
the 'government' concerning violations of OSHA, EPA etc. Seems like the
feds (the other feds that is) are on the warpath in So. Florida.

Long story short, the fuselage is now back in the garage waiting for the
dew point to drop to a respectable level. Seems this new compressor
spews a lot of water if worked to hard. Anyone have a better solution
than moving it into the house where the humidity is lower? I sure don't
want to have to invest in a dryer for one paint job.

Any suggestion on Imron with a HVLP gun?

Paul Michel
Rebel # 374


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Paul Michel

Painting

Post by Paul Michel » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Thanks for all the replys.
I kept the compressor in the house, ran the hose thru the door , had two
FLR's and NO WATER! I wish my painting skills were as good as the
preparation. The fuselage is all one color, no runs but in a few places
have just a hint of orange peel . Wings next after the son &
daughter-in-law come & go next week. Then on to all the glass work &
fairings. Anybody know what UV blockers/primers are available for Imron?
Paul
Rebel S/N 374

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Delcambre" <bdelcambre@cox-internet.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: Painting

Paul,

Shooting Imron with a HVLP works great. In So. Louisiana, I've got the
same problems with humidity as you do. The turbine compressor produces
hot
air that will not condense moisture. Yeah, guys, I understand the concept
of hot air being able to hold more moisture, but the moisture won't
condense
until you cool it, which doesn't happen when spraying. Another
unsolicited
opinion; Martin Senor's Ureglo has given me better results than Imron.
This is probably because I'm an inexperienced, clutsy painter, but that
might be why I like it; very forgiving. Costs less, too.

Bill Delcambre

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Michel" <micreb@bellsouth.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 2:45 PM
Subject: Painting

Group:

Well, I finally have gotten back to the reality of homebuilding.

Moved the fuselage & flight controls to the hanger and as I was working
late last Saturday night getting ready to set up a paint shop. The
local 'airport authority' stopped by & informed me that if I continued
with my present course of action I would most definitely be answering to
the 'government' concerning violations of OSHA, EPA etc. Seems like the
feds (the other feds that is) are on the warpath in So. Florida.

Long story short, the fuselage is now back in the garage waiting for the
dew point to drop to a respectable level. Seems this new compressor
spews a lot of water if worked to hard. Anyone have a better solution
than moving it into the house where the humidity is lower? I sure don't
want to have to invest in a dryer for one paint job.

Any suggestion on Imron with a HVLP gun?

Paul Michel
Rebel # 374


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klehman

Painting

Post by klehman » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Paul

Excellant. Glad someone is having a better building week than me as I
attempt to build a nosebowl...

Don't know how correct this is but I seem to recall only getting orange
peel when not waiting long enough for a recoat, or using too fast of a
thinner. THink it was caused by flash cooling.

Ken

Paul Michel wrote:
Thanks for all the replys.
I kept the compressor in the house, ran the hose thru the door , had two
FLR's and NO WATER! I wish my painting skills were as good as the
preparation. The fuselage is all one color, no runs but in a few places
have just a hint of orange peel . Wings next after the son &
daughter-in-law come & go next week. Then on to all the glass work &
fairings. Anybody know what UV blockers/primers are available for Imron?
Paul
Rebel S/N 374


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Dave Fife

Painting

Post by Dave Fife » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:54 pm

Paul, I did a lot of painting when I was younger and the water is not the only problem. All air compressors have some blow by on the pistons, this induces a small amount of oil with the moisture. Both of these will destroy a good paint job. The oil and water contaminate the paint as it is being sprayed and they it contaminates the surface you are painting.
I would recommend getting a drier and a water separator. They are available as a unit for about 90.00. Check Northern tool or harbor freight.
It sounds like you have already used the compressor and found water spraying out of the lines. So with that said, the lines are contaminated. Take them off, run some enamel reducer, or pre clean, or wax & grease remover through them. You should use about a quart for a 50 foot hose. That should be enough to do it 3 or 4 times. Before you use the hose again, put on the drier/water separator.
I have a unit that worked great and I still think it is available, the drier canister uses a roll of toilet paper as the drier and separator. I think JC Whitney still has them, about 40 dollars. With this unit, and a drier separator hooked up to my compressor I do not get any water or oil.
I know how much paint cost and so do you, I think another 130.00 will save you a lot of problems and headaches.

Just my 2 cents worth.
Dave Fife, 3D Composite Aircraft Parts.


Paul Michel <micreb@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Group:

Well, I finally have gotten back to the reality of homebuilding.

Moved the fuselage & flight controls to the hanger and as I was working
late last Saturday night getting ready to set up a paint shop. The
local 'airport authority' stopped by & informed me that if I continued
with my present course of action I would most definitely be answering to
the 'government' concerning violations of OSHA, EPA etc. Seems like the
feds (the other feds that is) are on the warpath in So. Florida.

Long story short, the fuselage is now back in the garage waiting for the
dew point to drop to a respectable level. Seems this new compressor
spews a lot of water if worked to hard. Anyone have a better solution
than moving it into the house where the humidity is lower? I sure don't
want to have to invest in a dryer for one paint job.

Any suggestion on Imron with a HVLP gun?

Paul Michel
Rebel # 374


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Mike Betti

painting

Post by Mike Betti » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:13 am

What is the usual procedure for painting. Do you assemble the airplane
in raw metal prior to the FWF installation, then disassemble and paint?
Or do you paint it assembled? Or do you fly the plane and then
disassemble for paint? What are most of you doing?
What do you do with the interior? Is it painted, insulated and then
covered with some kind of fabric/liner? I know a lot of you are cold
weather flyers as I am and need to insulate some how.
Thanks for your input,
Mike Betti
771E



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Drew Dalgleish

painting

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:13 am

At 08:06 PM 2/23/2005 -0600, you wrote:
What is the usual procedure for painting. Do you assemble the airplane
in raw metal prior to the FWF installation, then disassemble and paint?
Or do you paint it assembled? Or do you fly the plane and then
disassemble for paint? What are most of you doing?
What do you do with the interior? Is it painted, insulated and then
covered with some kind of fabric/liner? I know a lot of you are cold
weather flyers as I am and need to insulate some how.
Thanks for your input,
Mike Betti
771E
Hi Mike If you're a contortionist and an expert painter it's quicker to
paint it assembled. If you're just a mere mortal it's a lot easier and
gives better results to disassemble and paint with the wings supported
vertically. Some people like to try and finish everything before flying and
others just want to get in the air it's your choice. My plane just has a
stripe and painted fabric and glass. It's only been flying for 6 years so I
might get around to painting it eventually. My interior is closed cell
carpet underlay glued directly to the skins. On the firewall I have a
fiberglass mat glued on with aluminum foil glued to that. It offers
reasonable insulation but I was getting pretty cold after the first hour in
the air today. I think that a heater would help though ;)
Drew





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Al Paxhia

painting

Post by Al Paxhia » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:13 am

Mike,
The way I did it was to assemble for fit, disassemble and paint. If your
like me once your flying it's hard to stop flying and do more building.
Al
Moose, N526AP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 6:06 PM
Subject: painting

What is the usual procedure for painting. Do you assemble the airplane
in raw metal prior to the FWF installation, then disassemble and paint?
Or do you paint it assembled? Or do you fly the plane and then
disassemble for paint? What are most of you doing?
What do you do with the interior? Is it painted, insulated and then
covered with some kind of fabric/liner? I know a lot of you are cold
weather flyers as I am and need to insulate some how.
Thanks for your input,
Mike Betti
771E



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Ralph Baker

painting

Post by Ralph Baker » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:16 am

The consensus among the homebuilders at my local airport is to assemble,
fly, and then remove all control surfaces, wings, and stabilizer for
final exterior painting. We are painting the cabin interior parts that
will be difficult or inaccessable as we go.

The interior (or lack thereof) is up to you. Remember, every addition
comes right out of useful load. Also consider any material in the light
of toxic combustion products and flammability. I can say the MAM blown
headliner kit we got for our Elite absolutely will not fit in the
windshield area. Bob Johnson had a "snap in" interior of cloth covered
foam blocks that were compressed and fitted into the areas. It looked
good. An insulation blanket on the firewall may help in the hot
weather. Another option we are using is three 10 amp lighter plugs in
the panel. Two of them will power Gerbings brand electrically heated
suits (10 amps @ 12V each) that are normally used by motorcyclists.
They are adequate at 34F and 70 mph under a motorcycle suit and should
be adequate inside an Elite cabin.
Ralph Baker



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