murphy-rebel Digest for 22 Jan 2000

Roger & Alice Hoffman · Post by **Roger & Alice Hoffman** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

Ken,

Can the Rebel be built, I mean built well, using your standard hardware
store electric drill as long as I use sharp drill bits and expect more
de-burring? Or is that just an overall bad idea and I should I just spend
the money and buy pneumatic?

With regard to compressors, are the hardware store variety adequate? or
should I look for better quality ($$)?

**I don't mean to sound cheap. I'm trying to do this without going into
debt. However I will spend the money if it will make a better aircraft.

Thanks for the advice,
Roger

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Doug Martin · Post by **Doug Martin** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

My two cents. I used to burn up about three electric drill a year before I
went to Air. I have been using the same Surplus (Bought in a used tool
store for $25 US)air drill for about 29 years with no overhauls.
Useing a hardware store compressor is fine, however to make it last and
save on electricty, get a large tank. I went to our local Propane supplier
and he gave (free) me an old 4 ft high bottle that would not pass the
pressure test because of age not strength. Ofcourse he stamped the tank as
not suitable for gas. I only run my tank at 150 lbs, whereas most shops
that I have worked in only put 100 to 125 on the supply lines.
If you try to build without air you could have serious health problems
with your wrist and hands. My hands get sore just pulling clecos when I am
pulling over 100. Keeping in mind I am a working aircraft mechanic age 63,
and you younger folks can take a beating better, Ha Ha.
Doug
At 05:30 AM 1/23/00 -0800, you wrote:

Ken,

Can the Rebel be built, I mean built well, using your standard hardware
store electric drill as long as I use sharp drill bits and expect more
de-burring? Or is that just an overall bad idea and I should I just spend
the money and buy pneumatic?

With regard to compressors, are the hardware store variety adequate? or
should I look for better quality ($$)?

**I don't mean to sound cheap. I'm trying to do this without going into
debt. However I will spend the money if it will make a better aircraft.

Thanks for the advice,
Roger

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Doug Martin
greyghost@powernet.net
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subersys · Post by **subersys** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

Roger & Alice Hoffman wrote:

Ken,

Can the Rebel be built, I mean built well, using your standard hardware
store electric drill as long as I use sharp drill bits and expect more
de-burring? Or is that just an overall bad idea and I should I just spend
the money and buy pneumatic?

I built my Rebel using a cordless Makita. I recommend it highly. No
cords or hoses to bang stuff up or drag tools off the bench with. Sharp
bits are the key.

--
Dave Bangle http://www.subielyc.com/
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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

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Roger/Alice,

I built my first Rebel entirely with a (9.6volt) Makita cordless drill and
from my point of view it is built fairly well and it definitely didn't have
any effect on the build time, but I do have a highly biased opinion! (the
cordless is also easier on the ears and you don't have to drag a hose
around) I don't really think the type of drill has a big impact on the
finished work. Use what ever you have a home to get started and if the
weight of it doesn't bother you, stick with it. The main reason the air
drill is so commonly used, is that it is very light in weight and compact in
size. NOT the fact that it has a higher RPM than most electric drills. NO
MATER which drill you use, you still have to debur every hole by hand, so
most likely the drill you use will not have an effect on the build time!!!
Don't bother buying any of those fancy hole deburring tools, to debur your
rivet holes! The best and fastest way to do it, is to simply use a drill bit
(approx 13/32) and spin it with your thumb and fingers in each hole (anyone
with a fancy deburring tool want a race to the end of a wing skin?? Just
give me 'till noon when my hands come back to life each day!) Using anything
else generally counter sinks the hole and this weakens the structure (and
also gives a sharp edge for the rivet to shear on). If your fingers get
tired and you want to cheat, on the NONE SHOW side of the skins you can use
a small file and just run it along the sheet over the holes. The only
problem here is that you are not taking the sharp edge off the hole, but
only taking the high spots off the sheet so that it sits flat!(in most cases
not a big deal, and a quick scouting of the holes might dictate a few to be
cleaned up by hand with the drill bit)

You will inevitably switch to the air rivet gun (probably prior to
finishing the tail pieces) or you will have severe tendonitous in your hands
and be unable to sleep at night due to the painful throbbing in your hands!
Air compressors required to cover the CFM requirements of an air drill are
not much more expensive than one that would cover the needs of the air
riveter. Make them a deal at the store to throw in a good air drill, with
the purchase of the compressor and then you'll be all set to use what ever
drill WORKS BEST FOR YOU!

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

P.S. I suggest switching from the digest mode, to receiving each e-mail
seperately. The digest mode messes up the subject "thread" and makes it hard
to look back on specific items!

-----Original Message-----
From: Roger & Alice Hoffman <rognal@teleport.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, January 23, 2000 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: murphy-rebel Digest for 22 Jan 2000

Ken,

Can the Rebel be built, I mean built well, using your standard hardware
store electric drill as long as I use sharp drill bits and expect more
de-burring? Or is that just an overall bad idea and I should I just spend
the money and buy pneumatic?

With regard to compressors, are the hardware store variety adequate? or
should I look for better quality ($$)?

**I don't mean to sound cheap. I'm trying to do this without going into
debt. However I will spend the money if it will make a better aircraft.

Thanks for the advice,
Roger

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KFostvedt · Post by **KFostvedt** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

I also ran the whole field. I started out with a cordless drill and a hand
riveter on the tail surfaces (in the house - didn't want the noise of the
compressor). When I moved out to the shop and stepped up to air I fell in
love with the air drill during the fast repetition of drilling the wing
skins, just be sure to use a drill stop to save the stringers! Masking tape
on the bit will do just fine. I later moved to a variable speed / reversible
electric for the convince and control, I find myself using this one the most
lately. I do recommend that you spend the $50 and get the pneumatic riveter,
your knuckles will thank you a year from now, especially the first time you
try pulling one of the larger rivets! Check out Harbor Freight Tools at
1-800-423-2567 (ask for a catalog) for some great prices on all kinds of air
tools. They sell the pneumatic riveter for $49.99 and a 5 speed bench drill
press for $48.99, another VERY HANDY piece of equipment.
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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

It can (and has been) done ! If you can get one with 4 or 5,000 rpm,
it goes a bit easier (some say ....). Cordless is handier, as long as you
have a few extra batteries. No reason not to go this way - air is just
smaller & lighter.

Deburring on the inside can go quickly, if you just run a Scotch-Brite
wheel (1/2"+-)(in your drill) down the whole rivet line. This also helps
prepare the metal for epoxy chromate... You don't want to do this on
the outside, as it wouldn't be pretty ! ;-)

A 1/2" or so countersink bit with some tape on it, either rotated
with your fingers, or chucked into a cordless screwdriver (slow rpm),
will make deburring faster, easier, and more consistent. Be careful
not to overdo it, or you'll have "countersunk" holes ! :-)

......bobp

----------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 05:30 AM 1/23/00 -0800, you wrote:

Ken,

Can the Rebel be built, I mean built well, using your standard hardware
store electric drill as long as I use sharp drill bits and expect more
de-burring? Or is that just an overall bad idea and I should I just spend
the money and buy pneumatic?

With regard to compressors, are the hardware store variety adequate? or
should I look for better quality ($$)?

**I don't mean to sound cheap. I'm trying to do this without going into
debt. However I will spend the money if it will make a better aircraft.

Thanks for the advice,
Roger

*----------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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T L McClary · Post by **T L McClary** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

Check the Harbor Freight web site. They had a pneumatic riveter on sale
a week or 2 ago. $39.95, I believe. I have to say that my last web order
from Harbor, which was a drill press, took a month to get from Los
Angeles to Cincinnati. My Rebel left the factory on Thursday,
Thanksgiving in the US, and was ready for pick up in Cincinnati on the
following Wednesday and it had to clear customs. My friend also told me
his small order took a month, the point being Harbor has good prices and
the quality of the merchandise is acceptable, but their speed in shipping
is frustrating.

Terry

On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 16:12:44 EST KFostvedt@cs.com writes:

I also ran the whole field. I started out with a cordless drill and
a hand
riveter on the tail surfaces (in the house - didn't want the noise
of the
compressor). When I moved out to the shop and stepped up to air I
fell in
love with the air drill during the fast repetition of drilling the
wing
skins, just be sure to use a drill stop to save the stringers!
Masking tape
on the bit will do just fine. I later moved to a variable speed /
reversible
electric for the convince and control, I find myself using this one
the most
lately. I do recommend that you spend the $50 and get the pneumatic
riveter,
your knuckles will thank you a year from now, especially the first
time you
try pulling one of the larger rivets! Check out Harbor Freight
Tools at
1-800-423-2567 (ask for a catalog) for some great prices on all
kinds of air
tools. They sell the pneumatic riveter for $49.99 and a 5 speed
bench drill
press for $48.99, another VERY HANDY piece of equipment.
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Clay Smith · Post by **Clay Smith** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

I also perferred using a cordless drill for my kit...
A larger drill bit inserted (taped) into a cordless screw driver worked great
for deburing. Just the right RPM for the job.

subersys wrote:

Roger & Alice Hoffman wrote:
Ken,

Can the Rebel be built, I mean built well, using your standard hardware
store electric drill as long as I use sharp drill bits and expect more
de-burring? Or is that just an overall bad idea and I should I just spend
the money and buy pneumatic?
I built my Rebel using a cordless Makita. I recommend it highly. No
cords or hoses to bang stuff up or drag tools off the bench with. Sharp
bits are the key.

--
Dave Bangle http://www.subielyc.com/
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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Wray Thompson · Post by **Wray Thompson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:39 pm

And here's the URL http://www.harborfreight.com/

T L McClary wrote:

Check the Harbor Freight web site. They had a pneumatic riveter on sale
a week or 2 ago. $39.95, I believe. I have to say that my last web order
from Harbor, which was a drill press, took a month to get from Los
Angeles to Cincinnati. My Rebel left the factory on Thursday,
Thanksgiving in the US, and was ready for pick up in Cincinnati on the
following Wednesday and it had to clear customs. My friend also told me
his small order took a month, the point being Harbor has good prices and
the quality of the merchandise is acceptable, but their speed in shipping
is frustrating.

Terry

--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://www.globalserve.net/~cobbg/

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