Inspection covers

Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

Thanks all for your input on tools and deburring. I was wondering, what
is the best option for those inspection covers. I have 3 to install on
stab and I can't see putting them in with just sheetmetal screws.
Mike Betti

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Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

Mike,
This is a specific case where MAM's cost cutting got the better of good
practice. ALL the inspection covers should be easily removable. This
can be accomplished best with nutplates or Tinnerman nuts. The supplied
covers have 6 holes for rivets. You can either install 6 nutplates or
Tinnermans (less attractive but easier/cheaper) or remake them with 3
holes. Where rivets are required under remade covers they should be
countersunk. Don't forget the pulled Avex are 120 degree heads.

Our Elite rudder did not come with access holes to the rudder hinges. I
suggest that you consider all future maintenance and provide easy access
to all the threaded fastener locations from both sides. Also, get from
Wayne O'Shea the 10-32 nutplates for wing hinges. This is IMPORTANT!
Don't ask how I know. In all cases read the manual ahead and consider
providing easy access by whatever means. If you are building an Elite
taildragger read the rudder installation section before building the
rudder to avoid rework in adding the steering horn on the rudder bottom
(it steers the tailwheel).
regards,
Ralph Baker/Sue Scouten
Elite 611E

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Ryan Mowat · Post by **Ryan Mowat** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

An option for covers that so far has worked really very well is to have
MAM punch out rings 3/4 wide - then cut them in one spot - place them
as a doublers behind every inspection hole - I think there is about 26
of them all together. The tiny nuts grab the two pieces of sheet and
with pro seal between the AL pieces it absorbs all the vibrations so
they do not come out. The cost is min as MAM can make them out of
scrap.

Ryan

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 4:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Inspection covers

Thanks all for your input on tools and deburring. I was wondering, what
is the best option for those inspection covers. I have 3 to install on
stab and I can't see putting them in with just sheetmetal screws.
Mike Betti

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

You know, I think my Cessna is like that on some covers. There is a ring
with 3 tinnermans held in with 3 rivets through the other 3 holes.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <RMowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:38 PM
Subject: RE: Inspection covers

An option for covers that so far has worked really very well is to have
MAM punch out rings 3/4 wide - then cut them in one spot - place them
as a doublers behind every inspection hole - I think there is about 26
of them all together. The tiny nuts grab the two pieces of sheet and
with pro seal between the AL pieces it absorbs all the vibrations so
they do not come out. The cost is min as MAM can make them out of
scrap.

Ryan

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Betti
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 4:43 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Inspection covers

Thanks all for your input on tools and deburring. I was wondering, what
is the best option for those inspection covers. I have 3 to install on
stab and I can't see putting them in with just sheetmetal screws.
Mike Betti

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

You mentioned flush rivets. There was an extra page in the stab instructions
that was hand drawn and showed where the flush rivets should go, different
from the normal page in the manual. They are showing the whole leading edge
done in flush. The original drawing shows flush rivets only where the fin
comes into play. I don't know what the purpose is? Cleaner air? Any input on
that out there?
Mike Betti
Elite 771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@ftc-i.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:03 PM
Subject: inspection covers

Mike,
This is a specific case where MAM's cost cutting got the better of good
practice. ALL the inspection covers should be easily removable. This
can be accomplished best with nutplates or Tinnerman nuts. The supplied
covers have 6 holes for rivets. You can either install 6 nutplates or
Tinnermans (less attractive but easier/cheaper) or remake them with 3
holes. Where rivets are required under remade covers they should be
countersunk. Don't forget the pulled Avex are 120 degree heads.

Our Elite rudder did not come with access holes to the rudder hinges. I
suggest that you consider all future maintenance and provide easy access
to all the threaded fastener locations from both sides. Also, get from
Wayne O'Shea the 10-32 nutplates for wing hinges. This is IMPORTANT!
Don't ask how I know. In all cases read the manual ahead and consider
providing easy access by whatever means. If you are building an Elite
taildragger read the rudder installation section before building the
rudder to avoid rework in adding the steering horn on the rudder bottom
(it steers the tailwheel).
regards,
Ralph Baker/Sue Scouten
Elite 611E

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Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

Mike,
My comment on flush rivets was only to remind that nutplate rivets (or
Rivnuts) under the inspection covers would have to be flush so the covers
would lay flat. Other than that, the only flush rivets I recall (danger
here!) in the horizontal stabilizer are at the outboard ends where the
fiberglass caps slip over.
Regards,
Ralph Baker

Subject: Re: inspection covers

You mentioned flush rivets. There was an extra page in the stab

instructions

that was hand drawn and showed where the flush rivets should go, different
from the normal page in the manual. They are showing the whole leading

edge

done in flush. The original drawing shows flush rivets only where the fin
comes into play. I don't know what the purpose is? Cleaner air? Any input

on

that out there?
Mike Betti
Elite 771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@ftc-i.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:03 PM
Subject: inspection covers

Mike,
This is a specific case where MAM's cost cutting got the better of good
practice. ALL the inspection covers should be easily removable. This
can be accomplished best with nutplates or Tinnerman nuts. The supplied
covers have 6 holes for rivets. You can either install 6 nutplates or
Tinnermans (less attractive but easier/cheaper) or remake them with 3
holes. Where rivets are required under remade covers they should be
countersunk. Don't forget the pulled Avex are 120 degree heads.

Our Elite rudder did not come with access holes to the rudder hinges. I
suggest that you consider all future maintenance and provide easy access
to all the threaded fastener locations from both sides. Also, get from
Wayne O'Shea the 10-32 nutplates for wing hinges. This is IMPORTANT!
Don't ask how I know. In all cases read the manual ahead and consider
providing easy access by whatever means. If you are building an Elite
taildragger read the rudder installation section before building the
rudder to avoid rework in adding the steering horn on the rudder bottom
(it steers the tailwheel).
regards,
Ralph Baker/Sue Scouten
Elite 611E

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

At least on a Moose, there are a number of flush rivets in the center as
well where you're fuselage to stab fairing will eventually go.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@ftc-i.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: inspection covers

Mike,
My comment on flush rivets was only to remind that nutplate rivets (or
Rivnuts) under the inspection covers would have to be flush so the covers
would lay flat. Other than that, the only flush rivets I recall (danger
here!) in the horizontal stabilizer are at the outboard ends where the
fiberglass caps slip over.
Regards,
Ralph Baker

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David Ricker · Post by **David Ricker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

Mike

Did your Elite come with a vertical to horizontal stablizer fairing? It sounds
like the flush rivets should be placed under that area. BTW, our Elite didn't
come with the fairing.

Dave
elite 583.cjb.net

Mike Betti wrote:

You mentioned flush rivets. There was an extra page in the stab instructions
that was hand drawn and showed where the flush rivets should go, different
from the normal page in the manual. They are showing the whole leading edge
done in flush. The original drawing shows flush rivets only where the fin
comes into play. I don't know what the purpose is? Cleaner air? Any input on
that out there?
Mike Betti
Elite 771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@ftc-i.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:03 PM
Subject: inspection covers

Mike,
This is a specific case where MAM's cost cutting got the better of good
practice. ALL the inspection covers should be easily removable. This
can be accomplished best with nutplates or Tinnerman nuts. The supplied
covers have 6 holes for rivets. You can either install 6 nutplates or
Tinnermans (less attractive but easier/cheaper) or remake them with 3
holes. Where rivets are required under remade covers they should be
countersunk. Don't forget the pulled Avex are 120 degree heads.

Our Elite rudder did not come with access holes to the rudder hinges. I
suggest that you consider all future maintenance and provide easy access
to all the threaded fastener locations from both sides. Also, get from
Wayne O'Shea the 10-32 nutplates for wing hinges. This is IMPORTANT!
Don't ask how I know. In all cases read the manual ahead and consider
providing easy access by whatever means. If you are building an Elite
taildragger read the rudder installation section before building the
rudder to avoid rework in adding the steering horn on the rudder bottom
(it steers the tailwheel).
regards,
Ralph Baker/Sue Scouten
Elite 611E

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David A. Ricker
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

I don't think I seen a fairing in the parts here either. According the
drawing the flush rivets are in the fairing areas and also in all the
leading edge ribs. I need to see what the deal is there.
Are you just using the pop rivet dimpler with the nail? Seems to work good
but the hole comes out a little larger than the size 30 it should be.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: inspection covers

Mike

Did your Elite come with a vertical to horizontal stablizer fairing? It

sounds

like the flush rivets should be placed under that area. BTW, our Elite

didn't

come with the fairing.

Dave
elite 583.cjb.net

Mike Betti wrote:

You mentioned flush rivets. There was an extra page in the stab

instructions

that was hand drawn and showed where the flush rivets should go,

different

from the normal page in the manual. They are showing the whole leading

edge

done in flush. The original drawing shows flush rivets only where the

fin

comes into play. I don't know what the purpose is? Cleaner air? Any

input on

that out there?
Mike Betti
Elite 771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@ftc-i.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:03 PM
Subject: inspection covers

Mike,
This is a specific case where MAM's cost cutting got the better of

good

practice. ALL the inspection covers should be easily removable. This
can be accomplished best with nutplates or Tinnerman nuts. The

supplied

covers have 6 holes for rivets. You can either install 6 nutplates or
Tinnermans (less attractive but easier/cheaper) or remake them with 3
holes. Where rivets are required under remade covers they should be
countersunk. Don't forget the pulled Avex are 120 degree heads.

Our Elite rudder did not come with access holes to the rudder hinges.

I

suggest that you consider all future maintenance and provide easy

access

to all the threaded fastener locations from both sides. Also, get

from

Wayne O'Shea the 10-32 nutplates for wing hinges. This is IMPORTANT!
Don't ask how I know. In all cases read the manual ahead and consider
providing easy access by whatever means. If you are building an Elite
taildragger read the rudder installation section before building the
rudder to avoid rework in adding the steering horn on the rudder

bottom

(it steers the tailwheel).
regards,
Ralph Baker/Sue Scouten
Elite 611E

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Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada

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David Ricker · Post by **David Ricker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:05 am

The leading edge rib thing is curious, can't imagine why.

Yeah, we use the same dimpler & have the same concern about the holes but the
rivet does expand as it pulls so it is probably OK.

Dave

Mike Betti wrote:

I don't think I seen a fairing in the parts here either. According the
drawing the flush rivets are in the fairing areas and also in all the
leading edge ribs. I need to see what the deal is there.
Are you just using the pop rivet dimpler with the nail? Seems to work good
but the hole comes out a little larger than the size 30 it should be.
Mike Betti

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ricker" <ricker@inherentsys.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: inspection covers

Mike

Did your Elite come with a vertical to horizontal stablizer fairing? It
sounds
like the flush rivets should be placed under that area. BTW, our Elite
didn't
come with the fairing.

Dave
elite 583.cjb.net

Mike Betti wrote:

You mentioned flush rivets. There was an extra page in the stab
instructions
that was hand drawn and showed where the flush rivets should go,
different
from the normal page in the manual. They are showing the whole leading
edge
done in flush. The original drawing shows flush rivets only where the
fin
comes into play. I don't know what the purpose is? Cleaner air? Any
input on
that out there?
Mike Betti
Elite 771
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Baker" <rebaker@ftc-i.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 8:03 PM
Subject: inspection covers

good
supplied
I
access
from
bottom
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Canada

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Dick Shotwell · Post by **Dick Shotwell** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:17 am

Just a note to anyone who wants to install more easily removable
inspection covers. We wanted to be able to easily remove the inspection
covers and we wanted them held in place with stainless steel screws
screwed into nut plates. We found that Keith Kinden at Montana Floats
can make these up. He fabricates a donut into which the nut plates are
installed as well as a cover with matching screw holes. The donut is
placed in the structure (wing, stab, fuse, or wherever) with proseal.
Makes a nice clean installation.
Dick and Dave Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:17 am

Any ideas on the cost of these?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Shotwell" <dicks@filertel.com>
To: "Moose Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:15 PM
Subject: Inspection covers

Just a note to anyone who wants to install more easily removable
inspection covers. We wanted to be able to easily remove the inspection
covers and we wanted them held in place with stainless steel screws
screwed into nut plates. We found that Keith Kinden at Montana Floats
can make these up. He fabricates a donut into which the nut plates are
installed as well as a cover with matching screw holes. The donut is
placed in the structure (wing, stab, fuse, or wherever) with proseal.
Makes a nice clean installation.
Dick and Dave Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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Dale Fultz · Post by **Dale Fultz** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:17 am

what size are they being made in (Diameter) would like to find 6 inch ones
to put in lower fuselage to check motor mount nuts and rudder pedals from
underneath. Thanks Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Inspection covers

Any ideas on the cost of these?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Shotwell" <dicks@filertel.com>
To: "Moose Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:15 PM
Subject: Inspection covers

Just a note to anyone who wants to install more easily removable
inspection covers. We wanted to be able to easily remove the inspection
covers and we wanted them held in place with stainless steel screws
screwed into nut plates. We found that Keith Kinden at Montana Floats
can make these up. He fabricates a donut into which the nut plates are
installed as well as a cover with matching screw holes. The donut is
placed in the structure (wing, stab, fuse, or wherever) with proseal.
Makes a nice clean installation.
Dick and Dave Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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Scott Aldrich · Post by **Scott Aldrich** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:17 am

Give Keith a call at Montana Floats (406) 293-9026. I think they can make
just about whatever you want. I recall ours were 5 or maybe 6 inch and $12
for the ring and plate but that was a while ago.

Keith lurks on here but it is best to call him for fastest service.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Fultz
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:09 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Inspection covers

what size are they being made in (Diameter) would like to find 6 inch ones
to put in lower fuselage to check motor mount nuts and rudder pedals from
underneath. Thanks Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Inspection covers

Any ideas on the cost of these?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Shotwell" <dicks@filertel.com>
To: "Moose Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:15 PM
Subject: Inspection covers

Just a note to anyone who wants to install more easily removable
inspection covers. We wanted to be able to easily remove the inspection
covers and we wanted them held in place with stainless steel screws
screwed into nut plates. We found that Keith Kinden at Montana Floats
can make these up. He fabricates a donut into which the nut plates are
installed as well as a cover with matching screw holes. The donut is
placed in the structure (wing, stab, fuse, or wherever) with proseal.
Makes a nice clean installation.
Dick and Dave Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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Alan Hepburn · Post by **Alan Hepburn** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:17 am

I had some spares from my floats and used them at the tips. They are big
enough to remove a strobe power supply through. I might even have some more
spares left over...

Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Aldrich" <sa@mwutah.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 11:16 PM
Subject: RE: Inspection covers

Give Keith a call at Montana Floats (406) 293-9026. I think they can make
just about whatever you want. I recall ours were 5 or maybe 6 inch and

$12

for the ring and plate but that was a while ago.

Keith lurks on here but it is best to call him for fastest service.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of Dale
Fultz
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:09 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Inspection covers

what size are they being made in (Diameter) would like to find 6 inch ones
to put in lower fuselage to check motor mount nuts and rudder pedals from
underneath. Thanks Dale
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 10:22 PM
Subject: Re: Inspection covers

Any ideas on the cost of these?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dick Shotwell" <dicks@filertel.com>
To: "Moose Builders" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:15 PM
Subject: Inspection covers

Just a note to anyone who wants to install more easily removable
inspection covers. We wanted to be able to easily remove the

inspection

covers and we wanted them held in place with stainless steel screws
screwed into nut plates. We found that Keith Kinden at Montana Floats
can make these up. He fabricates a donut into which the nut plates

are

installed as well as a cover with matching screw holes. The donut is
placed in the structure (wing, stab, fuse, or wherever) with proseal.
Makes a nice clean installation.
Dick and Dave Shotwell
Moose 096
N235DS
Twin Falls, ID

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