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VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Converted from Wildcat! database. (read only)
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Ryan Mowat

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Ryan Mowat » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Ken,

Just for fun I pulled up the MAM web page spec for rebel and moose. The
MAM site does say the Rebel is a 4415, and the moose is a modified 4415
but makes no claim about the actual MOOSE airfoil.

I then pulled into CAD a standard 4415 airfoil and compared it to the
cross section from my own plane (real life - did it my self). Very
interesting - the cross-section from the MOOSE is very different then
the 4415 - it is deeper and a slightly different shape.

Based on this airfoil sketch comparison I would suggest that a cuff that
works on the Rebel or Beaver will not necessarily work on the Moose.

Ryan Mowat, P.Eng.
30528 1A Greatnorthern Ave
Abbotsford, BC V2T 6H4
(604) 556-7222 (ext 307), (604) 556-7215 (Fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:22 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel

The Rebel is certainly enjoying the spin off from the Beaver. Add much
refinement and flight testing and the price triples and the market dries
up though. I've heard the Rebel wing referred to as "modified" too but I
believe that mostly means a different flaperon arrangement. I think your
chances of optimising the aerofoil for a particular characteristic such
as lower stall speed are pretty good, but the challenge is achieving it
without compromising cruise speed or stability or something else.
Improving the stall, the cruise, and the stability on a Rebel with wing
cuffs is pretty impressive to me. It will be interesting to see some
flight reports from the guys with the cuffs on a Moose. Since it is
apparently the same wing, I'd certainly expect similar results although
perhaps not a higher cruise. Harry Riblett's aerofoil booklet has some
interesting info.
Ken

Ryan Mowat wrote:
Wayne and Ken,

The CNC rolls in the Kelowna area that do the Barron Cuff is the
company
that I sent the cross section drawing of the Moose wing to for
analysis.
Basically the design that needs to be done to optimize the cuff
performance
with the plane can be done on computer Finite Element Analysis (FEA)
rather
than wind tunnel experimental work. However, final aircraft flight
testing
should also be done to verify FEA results. I understand that the
Rebel cuff
was a good educated guess and that it works really very well - it may
be
close enough and further FEA beyond the first guess for the shape may
not be
necessary. The MOOSE application is different. The so called Dave
Barron
cuff for the Moose has never been engineered - just a guess was done -
and
my belief is that this guess of the shape for the moose is not optimal
-
further engineering could be done on its shape and extent of droop.
The
beauty of experimental airplanes is that you can spin a cuff off and
try it
if you like, but my approach would be to have proper FEA done before I
go
the the trouble of flight testing. The basic concept is sound and I
believe
the fellows in Kelowna have the expertise to do it correctly if
someone was
willing to offer a moose for a test bed.

I was told by MAM that the airfoil on the Moose is a modified Beaver
airfoil - I have not verified this myself, but I understand a slightly
different airfoil was choose to increase cruise speeds - maybe someone
at
MAM could provide specific details unless they consider it a technical
secret. I have made my own Cross Section CAD drawing of my wing and
it
would not be hard to compare it to other airfoils if someone was
interested.
I have spoken to both pilots of the Cuff installed MOOSE aircraft and
my
conclusion based on their test flight descriptions was that the cuffs
that
they have installed are not optimized to the extent that I would put
them on
my MOOSE. There are other factors to consider when looking at the
cuff
installation - i.e. wing attachment angle and engine thrust angle,
these
also contribute to the performance of the cuff.

I have offered my Moose to the guys in Kelowna but have never followed
up
with them because it flys so nice now.

Ryan Mowat.







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Wayne G. O'Shea

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Like I said Ryan the Rebel wing is the exact same profile as the Moose....
Inch for inch....just 3 feet per side more of it on the SR/Moose. Ribs
TTBOMK come off the same die. They are just heavier material, or are missing
the lightening holes compared to the Rebel..but other than that are exactly
the same size and profile.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <RMowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Ken,

Just for fun I pulled up the MAM web page spec for rebel and moose. The
MAM site does say the Rebel is a 4415, and the moose is a modified 4415
but makes no claim about the actual MOOSE airfoil.

I then pulled into CAD a standard 4415 airfoil and compared it to the
cross section from my own plane (real life - did it my self). Very
interesting - the cross-section from the MOOSE is very different then
the 4415 - it is deeper and a slightly different shape.

Based on this airfoil sketch comparison I would suggest that a cuff that
works on the Rebel or Beaver will not necessarily work on the Moose.

Ryan Mowat, P.Eng.
30528 1A Greatnorthern Ave
Abbotsford, BC V2T 6H4
(604) 556-7222 (ext 307), (604) 556-7215 (Fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:22 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel

The Rebel is certainly enjoying the spin off from the Beaver. Add much
refinement and flight testing and the price triples and the market dries
up though. I've heard the Rebel wing referred to as "modified" too but I
believe that mostly means a different flaperon arrangement. I think your
chances of optimising the aerofoil for a particular characteristic such
as lower stall speed are pretty good, but the challenge is achieving it
without compromising cruise speed or stability or something else.
Improving the stall, the cruise, and the stability on a Rebel with wing
cuffs is pretty impressive to me. It will be interesting to see some
flight reports from the guys with the cuffs on a Moose. Since it is
apparently the same wing, I'd certainly expect similar results although
perhaps not a higher cruise. Harry Riblett's aerofoil booklet has some
interesting info.
Ken

Ryan Mowat wrote:
Wayne and Ken,

The CNC rolls in the Kelowna area that do the Barron Cuff is the
company
that I sent the cross section drawing of the Moose wing to for
analysis.
Basically the design that needs to be done to optimize the cuff
performance
with the plane can be done on computer Finite Element Analysis (FEA)
rather
than wind tunnel experimental work. However, final aircraft flight
testing
should also be done to verify FEA results. I understand that the
Rebel cuff
was a good educated guess and that it works really very well - it may
be
close enough and further FEA beyond the first guess for the shape may
not be
necessary. The MOOSE application is different. The so called Dave
Barron
cuff for the Moose has never been engineered - just a guess was done -
and
my belief is that this guess of the shape for the moose is not optimal
-
further engineering could be done on its shape and extent of droop.
The
beauty of experimental airplanes is that you can spin a cuff off and
try it
if you like, but my approach would be to have proper FEA done before I
go
the the trouble of flight testing. The basic concept is sound and I
believe
the fellows in Kelowna have the expertise to do it correctly if
someone was
willing to offer a moose for a test bed.

I was told by MAM that the airfoil on the Moose is a modified Beaver
airfoil - I have not verified this myself, but I understand a slightly
different airfoil was choose to increase cruise speeds - maybe someone
at
MAM could provide specific details unless they consider it a technical
secret. I have made my own Cross Section CAD drawing of my wing and
it
would not be hard to compare it to other airfoils if someone was
interested.
I have spoken to both pilots of the Cuff installed MOOSE aircraft and
my
conclusion based on their test flight descriptions was that the cuffs
that
they have installed are not optimized to the extent that I would put
them on
my MOOSE. There are other factors to consider when looking at the
cuff
installation - i.e. wing attachment angle and engine thrust angle,
these
also contribute to the performance of the cuff.

I have offered my Moose to the guys in Kelowna but have never followed
up
with them because it flys so nice now.

Ryan Mowat.







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Ryan Mowat

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Ryan Mowat » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Iteresting Wayne

Then neither the Rebel nor moose are 4415 airfoils then.

Ryan

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:22:43 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Like I said Ryan the Rebel wing is the exact same profile as the Moose....
Inch for inch....just 3 feet per side more of it on the SR/Moose.
Ribs TTBOMK come off the same die. They are just heavier material,
or are missing the lightening holes compared to the Rebel..but other
than that are exactly the same size and profile.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <RMowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
Ken,

Just for fun I pulled up the MAM web page spec for rebel and moose. The
MAM site does say the Rebel is a 4415, and the moose is a modified 4415
but makes no claim about the actual MOOSE airfoil.

I then pulled into CAD a standard 4415 airfoil and compared it to the
cross section from my own plane (real life - did it my self). Very
interesting - the cross-section from the MOOSE is very different then
the 4415 - it is deeper and a slightly different shape.

Based on this airfoil sketch comparison I would suggest that a cuff that
works on the Rebel or Beaver will not necessarily work on the Moose.

Ryan Mowat, P.Eng.
30528 1A Greatnorthern Ave
Abbotsford, BC V2T 6H4
(604) 556-7222 (ext 307), (604) 556-7215 (Fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:22 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel

The Rebel is certainly enjoying the spin off from the Beaver. Add much
refinement and flight testing and the price triples and the market dries
up though. I've heard the Rebel wing referred to as "modified" too but I
believe that mostly means a different flaperon arrangement. I think your
chances of optimising the aerofoil for a particular characteristic such
as lower stall speed are pretty good, but the challenge is achieving it
without compromising cruise speed or stability or something else.
Improving the stall, the cruise, and the stability on a Rebel with wing
cuffs is pretty impressive to me. It will be interesting to see some
flight reports from the guys with the cuffs on a Moose. Since it is
apparently the same wing, I'd certainly expect similar results although
perhaps not a higher cruise. Harry Riblett's aerofoil booklet has some
interesting info.
Ken

Ryan Mowat wrote:
Wayne and Ken,

The CNC rolls in the Kelowna area that do the Barron Cuff is the
company
that I sent the cross section drawing of the Moose wing to for
analysis.
Basically the design that needs to be done to optimize the cuff
performance
with the plane can be done on computer Finite Element Analysis (FEA)
rather
than wind tunnel experimental work. However, final aircraft flight
testing
should also be done to verify FEA results. I understand that the
Rebel cuff
was a good educated guess and that it works really very well - it may
be
close enough and further FEA beyond the first guess for the shape may
not be
necessary. The MOOSE application is different. The so called Dave
Barron
cuff for the Moose has never been engineered - just a guess was done -
and
my belief is that this guess of the shape for the moose is not optimal
-
further engineering could be done on its shape and extent of droop.
The
beauty of experimental airplanes is that you can spin a cuff off and
try it
if you like, but my approach would be to have proper FEA done before I
go
the the trouble of flight testing. The basic concept is sound and I
believe
the fellows in Kelowna have the expertise to do it correctly if
someone was
willing to offer a moose for a test bed.

I was told by MAM that the airfoil on the Moose is a modified Beaver
airfoil - I have not verified this myself, but I understand a slightly
different airfoil was choose to increase cruise speeds - maybe someone
at
MAM could provide specific details unless they consider it a technical
secret. I have made my own Cross Section CAD drawing of my wing and
it
would not be hard to compare it to other airfoils if someone was
interested.
I have spoken to both pilots of the Cuff installed MOOSE aircraft and
my
conclusion based on their test flight descriptions was that the cuffs
that
they have installed are not optimized to the extent that I would put
them on
my MOOSE. There are other factors to consider when looking at the
cuff
installation - i.e. wing attachment angle and engine thrust angle,
these
also contribute to the performance of the cuff.

I have offered my Moose to the guys in Kelowna but have never followed
up
with them because it flys so nice now.

Ryan Mowat.







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Wayne G. O'Shea

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Probably not..but if the cuff works for the Rebel..it should be pretty darn
good for the Moose. Note that the outer ribs on the moose wings are actually
identical in thickness and lightening holes as the Rebel.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <rmowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Iteresting Wayne

Then neither the Rebel nor moose are 4415 airfoils then.

Ryan

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:22:43 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Like I said Ryan the Rebel wing is the exact same profile as the
Moose....
Inch for inch....just 3 feet per side more of it on the SR/Moose.
Ribs TTBOMK come off the same die. They are just heavier material,
or are missing the lightening holes compared to the Rebel..but other
than that are exactly the same size and profile.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <RMowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
Ken,

Just for fun I pulled up the MAM web page spec for rebel and moose.
The
MAM site does say the Rebel is a 4415, and the moose is a modified
4415
but makes no claim about the actual MOOSE airfoil.

I then pulled into CAD a standard 4415 airfoil and compared it to the
cross section from my own plane (real life - did it my self). Very
interesting - the cross-section from the MOOSE is very different then
the 4415 - it is deeper and a slightly different shape.

Based on this airfoil sketch comparison I would suggest that a cuff
that
works on the Rebel or Beaver will not necessarily work on the Moose.

Ryan Mowat, P.Eng.
30528 1A Greatnorthern Ave
Abbotsford, BC V2T 6H4
(604) 556-7222 (ext 307), (604) 556-7215 (Fax)

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:22 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel

The Rebel is certainly enjoying the spin off from the Beaver. Add much
refinement and flight testing and the price triples and the market
dries
up though. I've heard the Rebel wing referred to as "modified" too but
I
believe that mostly means a different flaperon arrangement. I think
your
chances of optimising the aerofoil for a particular characteristic
such
as lower stall speed are pretty good, but the challenge is achieving
it
without compromising cruise speed or stability or something else.
Improving the stall, the cruise, and the stability on a Rebel with
wing
cuffs is pretty impressive to me. It will be interesting to see some
flight reports from the guys with the cuffs on a Moose. Since it is
apparently the same wing, I'd certainly expect similar results
although
perhaps not a higher cruise. Harry Riblett's aerofoil booklet has
some
interesting info.
Ken

Ryan Mowat wrote:
company analysis. performance rather testing Rebel cuff
may
be
may
not be Barron
done -
and
optimal
- The try it
I
go believe someone was
slightly
someone
at
technical
it interested.
and
my
cuffs
that them on cuff these
followed
up




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Wayne G. O'Shea

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Just to add some more "mud"...the Beaver uses a 64A416 or 4416 modified
airfoil....not a 4415 modified as the Maverick/Rebel/Elite/Moose do. The
Otter uses a 63A516 airfoil

The difference between Beaver and Murphy is only one number but could be
very different..although viewing both numerous times it's hard to see a
difference. On the other hand my UTVA's have a 4412 airfoil. Only three
numbers different but very different than the 4415 of the Murphy'.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Probably not..but if the cuff works for the Rebel..it should be pretty
darn
good for the Moose. Note that the outer ribs on the moose wings are
actually
identical in thickness and lightening holes as the Rebel.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <rmowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Iteresting Wayne

Then neither the Rebel nor moose are 4415 airfoils then.

Ryan

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:22:43 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Like I said Ryan the Rebel wing is the exact same profile as the
Moose....
Inch for inch....just 3 feet per side more of it on the SR/Moose.
Ribs TTBOMK come off the same die. They are just heavier material,
or are missing the lightening holes compared to the Rebel..but other
than that are exactly the same size and profile.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <RMowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
The
4415
the
then
that
Of
much
dries
but
I
your
such
it
wing
although
some
(FEA)
flight
may
may
Dave
done -
optimal
droop.
and
before
I
I
Beaver
slightly
someone
technical
and
and
cuffs
put
followed
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Ryan Mowat

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Ryan Mowat » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Wayne, the problem with the translation from Rebel to the Moose cuff (or
Beaver to Moose) is the other factors such as CG, wing attachment angle, and
engine thrust line - and just how much drop to do etc. The two MOOSE
airplanes that I know of with the cuff were never tested without the cuff or
with the cuff alone, so there is not a good clean set of flight data to make
the comparison with. A good test aircraft is needed.

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:53:53 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Probably not..but if the cuff works for the Rebel..it should be
pretty darn good for the Moose. Note that the outer ribs on the
moose wings are actually identical in thickness and lightening holes
as the Rebel.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <rmowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
Iteresting Wayne

Then neither the Rebel nor moose are 4415 airfoils then.

Ryan

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:22:43 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Like I said Ryan the Rebel wing is the exact same profile as the
Moose....
Inch for inch....just 3 feet per side more of it on the SR/Moose.
Ribs TTBOMK come off the same die. They are just heavier material,
or are missing the lightening holes compared to the Rebel..but other
than that are exactly the same size and profile.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <RMowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
The
4415
that
much
dries
but
I
your
such
it
wing
although
some
(FEA)
may
may
done -
optimal
and
before
I
I
Beaver
slightly
someone
technical
and
and
cuffs
put
followed
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Wayne G. O'Shea

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Ryan, you are correct that the cuff may or may not work as well on the Moose
as it has on the Rebel and that it would be nice if someone tested it before
and after installation.....but without that or the expense of analysis (and
someone guessing at what the programs output means) I'd be willing to give
it a shot on a moose if someone can give PROVEN flight improvements with the
same cuff on the Rebel.

Consider that the Moose has the exact same wing profile as the Rebel (other
than seperate flaps/ailerons). Because of that....same wing means the C of G
range is the same. The wing attachment angle on the Moose is identical to
the Rebel. This only leaves the Thrust line angle and I'd hazard a guess
that nothing seriously has changed here either.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <rmowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Wayne, the problem with the translation from Rebel to the Moose cuff (or
Beaver to Moose) is the other factors such as CG, wing attachment angle,
and
engine thrust line - and just how much drop to do etc. The two MOOSE
airplanes that I know of with the cuff were never tested without the cuff
or
with the cuff alone, so there is not a good clean set of flight data to
make
the comparison with. A good test aircraft is needed.

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:53:53 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Probably not..but if the cuff works for the Rebel..it should be
pretty darn good for the Moose. Note that the outer ribs on the
moose wings are actually identical in thickness and lightening holes
as the Rebel.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <rmowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
Iteresting Wayne

Then neither the Rebel nor moose are 4415 airfoils then.

Ryan

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:22:43 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Moose....
moose.
The
4415
the
Very
then
cuff
that
Moose.
Of
much
dries
but
I
think
your
such
achieving
it
wing
some
is
although
some
(FEA)
flight
the
it
may
shape
may
Dave
done -
optimal
droop.
and
before
I
and
I
Beaver
slightly
someone
technical
and
aircraft
and
cuffs
put
the
angle,
followed
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Jesse Jenks

VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's

Post by Jesse Jenks » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Someone mentioned taping on VGs for testing. Why not just Duck tape the
cuffs on and see?
If you can't Duck it ... F*&k it!



From: "Ryan Mowat" <rmowat@forge-industrial.com>
Reply-To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:46:30 -0800

Wayne, the problem with the translation from Rebel to the Moose cuff (or
Beaver to Moose) is the other factors such as CG, wing attachment angle,
and
engine thrust line - and just how much drop to do etc. The two MOOSE
airplanes that I know of with the cuff were never tested without the cuff
or
with the cuff alone, so there is not a good clean set of flight data to
make
the comparison with. A good test aircraft is needed.

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 22:53:53 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Probably not..but if the cuff works for the Rebel..it should be
pretty darn good for the Moose. Note that the outer ribs on the
moose wings are actually identical in thickness and lightening holes
as the Rebel.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mowat" <rmowat@forge-industrial.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 10:28 PM
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel - airfoil and the Moose 4415 and Cuff's
Iteresting Wayne

Then neither the Rebel nor moose are 4415 airfoils then.

Ryan

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:22:43 -0500, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote
Moose....
moose.
The
4415
the
Very
then
cuff
that
Moose.
Of
much
dries
but
I
think
your
such
achieving
it
wing
some
is
although
some
(FEA)
flight
the
it
may
shape
may
Dave
done -
optimal
droop.
and
before
I
and
I
Beaver
slightly
someone
technical
and
aircraft
and
cuffs
put
the
angle,
followed
--
Open WebMail Project (http://openwebmail.org)




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