Just for fun I pulled up the MAM web page spec for rebel and moose. The
MAM site does say the Rebel is a 4415, and the moose is a modified 4415
but makes no claim about the actual MOOSE airfoil.
I then pulled into CAD a standard 4415 airfoil and compared it to the
cross section from my own plane (real life - did it my self). Very
interesting - the cross-section from the MOOSE is very different then
the 4415 - it is deeper and a slightly different shape.
Based on this airfoil sketch comparison I would suggest that a cuff that
works on the Rebel or Beaver will not necessarily work on the Moose.
Ryan Mowat, P.Eng.
30528 1A Greatnorthern Ave
Abbotsford, BC V2T 6H4
(604) 556-7222 (ext 307), (604) 556-7215 (Fax)
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Sunday, January 09, 2005 11:22 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: VG's - Rebel
The Rebel is certainly enjoying the spin off from the Beaver. Add much
refinement and flight testing and the price triples and the market dries
up though. I've heard the Rebel wing referred to as "modified" too but I
believe that mostly means a different flaperon arrangement. I think your
chances of optimising the aerofoil for a particular characteristic such
as lower stall speed are pretty good, but the challenge is achieving it
without compromising cruise speed or stability or something else.
Improving the stall, the cruise, and the stability on a Rebel with wing
cuffs is pretty impressive to me. It will be interesting to see some
flight reports from the guys with the cuffs on a Moose. Since it is
apparently the same wing, I'd certainly expect similar results although
perhaps not a higher cruise. Harry Riblett's aerofoil booklet has some
interesting info.
Ken
Ryan Mowat wrote:
companyWayne and Ken,
The CNC rolls in the Kelowna area that do the Barron Cuff is the
analysis.that I sent the cross section drawing of the Moose wing to for
performanceBasically the design that needs to be done to optimize the cuff
ratherwith the plane can be done on computer Finite Element Analysis (FEA)
testingthan wind tunnel experimental work. However, final aircraft flight
Rebel cuffshould also be done to verify FEA results. I understand that the
bewas a good educated guess and that it works really very well - it may
not beclose enough and further FEA beyond the first guess for the shape may
Barronnecessary. The MOOSE application is different. The so called Dave
andcuff for the Moose has never been engineered - just a guess was done -
-my belief is that this guess of the shape for the moose is not optimal
Thefurther engineering could be done on its shape and extent of droop.
try itbeauty of experimental airplanes is that you can spin a cuff off and
goif you like, but my approach would be to have proper FEA done before I
believethe the trouble of flight testing. The basic concept is sound and I
someone wasthe fellows in Kelowna have the expertise to do it correctly if
atwilling to offer a moose for a test bed.
I was told by MAM that the airfoil on the Moose is a modified Beaver
airfoil - I have not verified this myself, but I understand a slightly
different airfoil was choose to increase cruise speeds - maybe someone
itMAM could provide specific details unless they consider it a technical
secret. I have made my own Cross Section CAD drawing of my wing and
interested.would not be hard to compare it to other airfoils if someone was
myI have spoken to both pilots of the Cuff installed MOOSE aircraft and
thatconclusion based on their test flight descriptions was that the cuffs
them onthey have installed are not optimized to the extent that I would put
cuffmy MOOSE. There are other factors to consider when looking at the
theseinstallation - i.e. wing attachment angle and engine thrust angle,
upalso contribute to the performance of the cuff.
I have offered my Moose to the guys in Kelowna but have never followed
with them because it flys so nice now.
Ryan Mowat.
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