US Sport Pilot regulations

Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

I thought this might be of interest to our friends up North...

EAA Canadian Council Members, Transport Canada Discuss Sport
Pilot/Light-Sport Aircraft
(http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041208_c ... uncil.html) The
recreational aviation community, a group of about 20 representatives of Canadian
aviation industry and Transport Canada officials, recently discussed the new U.S.
sport pilot/light-sport aircraft (SP/LSA) regulations and its impact on
similar interests in Canada. Included at the group's first meeting, December 7-8 in
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, were EAA Canadian Council members Denis Browne,
Jack Dueck, Frank Hofmann, and Ted Slack.
_(read more)_ (http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041216_canada.html)

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Problem is it's a bunch of EAA hogwash! Not how it went, was not a meeting
requested by EAA and not what was supposed to be covered at this meeting.
They tied up the 2 day meeting presenting information that was pretty much
irrelevant or already know by all involved and had to be reminded that the
LSA for the USA was being based on our TP10141 that has been used for many,
many years now in Canada for AULA's (advanced Ultralights). The problem (for
aircraft manufacturers) is they took our, simple 30 page, TP10141 document
(orignally written by Chris Heintz) and added ~ 400 pages of ASTM nonsense
to it so the manufacturers have no flexibility what so ever to what they
manufacture.

Now they have to have another meeting to let our Light Aircraft Manufactures
Association present the proposal they have written up, to Transport Canada,
to start an entirely new (self regulated) category for factory built
aircraft. This is what was supposed to be covered at this meeting and thanks
to these outside sources trying to take the glory for advancement in
Canadian aviation we have been once again delayed for at least 6 months.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

I thought this might be of interest to our friends up North...

EAA Canadian Council Members, Transport Canada Discuss Sport
Pilot/Light-Sport Aircraft
(http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041208_c ... uncil.html) The
recreational aviation community, a group of about 20 representatives of

Canadian

aviation industry and Transport Canada officials, recently discussed the

new U.S.

sport pilot/light-sport aircraft (SP/LSA) regulations and its impact on
similar interests in Canada. Included at the group's first meeting,

December 7-8 in

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, were EAA Canadian Council members Denis Browne,
Jack Dueck, Frank Hofmann, and Ted Slack.
_(read more)_ (http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041216_canada.html)

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Right on, Wayne !!

I'm a member of EAA, and enjoy Oshkosh & Sun 'n Fun, and think they
do a good job of dealing with the ridiculous bureaucracy of the FAA, and are
generally good for aviation in the USA.

However - Canada has always had THE best set of rules for light aviation
IN THE WORLD ! We've had the AULA (Advanced Ulralight Aircraft) category
for over 10 years ! This category gives us MORE than the Sport Category -
we don't even need a drivers licence - and was copied & mutilated to become
the foundation for Sport Category. The mutilation was, I believe, a
determined attempt to slow growth, and protect old line manufacturers.
All this ASTM junk IS causing manufacturers to approach the whole issue
with a LOT of caution - it will be VERY difficult to satisfy the rules ! The
SP licence will move quickly, but the aircraft it needs will likely be years
away !!

We've also had the Recreational Pilot Licence for many years - not the
overly restricted version used in the US, but a proven, practical licence that
allows cross-country and passenger carrying in most light aircraft - even 4
seaters. (Only one passenger, though ....)

With OUR homebuilts, the REGISTERED OWNER, NOT JUST the BUILDER,
can do ALL MAINTENANCE ! Very reasonable, considering that no sane
person would want to fly in an unsafe aircraft, and the owners generally know
more about their aircraft, and have more incentive to learn, than an AME who
has only worked on spam-cans !

ALL of these rules were arrived at through discussion with all concerned
parties, through CARAC, LAMAC, and RAA.

It seems that whenever the EAA come to Canada, they just irritate our
officials by trying to tell them how THEY think we ought to do things ! How
would the FAA react if WE went to Washington and told them WE had a
better idea ??!! We already have it better than ANY other country -
this kind of 'help' we don't need !!!

........bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 18 December 2004 01:16 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Problem is it's a bunch of EAA hogwash! Not how it went, was not a meeting
requested by EAA and not what was supposed to be covered at this meeting.
They tied up the 2 day meeting presenting information that was pretty much
irrelevant or already know by all involved and had to be reminded that the
LSA for the USA was being based on our TP10141 that has been used for many,
many years now in Canada for AULA's (advanced Ultralights). The problem
(for aircraft manufacturers) is they took our, simple 30 page, TP10141
document (orignally written by Chris Heintz) and added ~ 400 pages of ASTM
nonsense to it so the manufacturers have no flexibility what so ever to
what they manufacture.

Now they have to have another meeting to let our Light Aircraft
Manufactures Association present the proposal they have written up, to
Transport Canada, to start an entirely new (self regulated) category for
factory built aircraft. This is what was supposed to be covered at this
meeting and thanks to these outside sources trying to take the glory for
advancement in Canadian aviation we have been once again delayed for at
least 6 months.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

I thought this might be of interest to our friends up North...

EAA Canadian Council Members, Transport Canada Discuss Sport
Pilot/Light-Sport Aircraft
(http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041208_c ... uncil.html) The
recreational aviation community, a group of about 20 representatives of
Canadian

aviation industry and Transport Canada officials, recently discussed the
new U.S.

sport pilot/light-sport aircraft (SP/LSA) regulations and its impact on
similar interests in Canada. Included at the group's first meeting,
December 7-8 in

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, were EAA Canadian Council members Denis Browne,
Jack Dueck, Frank Hofmann, and Ted Slack.
_(read more)_ (http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041216_canada.html)

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Hey Bob! Gary's looking for RAA headquarters support/directors and you're
already in Brampton and I'm not so........

LOL !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Right on, Wayne !!

I'm a member of EAA, and enjoy Oshkosh & Sun 'n Fun, and think they
do a good job of dealing with the ridiculous bureaucracy of the FAA, and

are

generally good for aviation in the USA.

However - Canada has always had THE best set of rules for light aviation
IN THE WORLD ! We've had the AULA (Advanced Ulralight Aircraft) category
for over 10 years ! This category gives us MORE than the Sport Category -
we don't even need a drivers licence - and was copied & mutilated to

become

the foundation for Sport Category. The mutilation was, I believe, a
determined attempt to slow growth, and protect old line manufacturers.
All this ASTM junk IS causing manufacturers to approach the whole issue
with a LOT of caution - it will be VERY difficult to satisfy the rules !

The

SP licence will move quickly, but the aircraft it needs will likely be

years

away !!

We've also had the Recreational Pilot Licence for many years - not the
overly restricted version used in the US, but a proven, practical licence

that

allows cross-country and passenger carrying in most light aircraft - even

4

seaters. (Only one passenger, though ....)

With OUR homebuilts, the REGISTERED OWNER, NOT JUST the BUILDER,
can do ALL MAINTENANCE ! Very reasonable, considering that no sane
person would want to fly in an unsafe aircraft, and the owners generally

know

more about their aircraft, and have more incentive to learn, than an AME

who

has only worked on spam-cans !

ALL of these rules were arrived at through discussion with all concerned
parties, through CARAC, LAMAC, and RAA.

It seems that whenever the EAA come to Canada, they just irritate our
officials by trying to tell them how THEY think we ought to do things !

How

would the FAA react if WE went to Washington and told them WE had a
better idea ??!! We already have it better than ANY other country -
this kind of 'help' we don't need !!!

........bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 18 December 2004 01:16 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Problem is it's a bunch of EAA hogwash! Not how it went, was not a

meeting

requested by EAA and not what was supposed to be covered at this

meeting.

They tied up the 2 day meeting presenting information that was pretty

much

irrelevant or already know by all involved and had to be reminded that

the

LSA for the USA was being based on our TP10141 that has been used for

many,

many years now in Canada for AULA's (advanced Ultralights). The problem
(for aircraft manufacturers) is they took our, simple 30 page, TP10141
document (orignally written by Chris Heintz) and added ~ 400 pages of

ASTM

nonsense to it so the manufacturers have no flexibility what so ever to
what they manufacture.

Now they have to have another meeting to let our Light Aircraft
Manufactures Association present the proposal they have written up, to
Transport Canada, to start an entirely new (self regulated) category for
factory built aircraft. This is what was supposed to be covered at this
meeting and thanks to these outside sources trying to take the glory for
advancement in Canadian aviation we have been once again delayed for at
least 6 months.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

I thought this might be of interest to our friends up North...

EAA Canadian Council Members, Transport Canada Discuss Sport
Pilot/Light-Sport Aircraft
(http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041208_c ... uncil.html) The
recreational aviation community, a group of about 20 representatives

of

Canadian

aviation industry and Transport Canada officials, recently discussed

the

new U.S.

sport pilot/light-sport aircraft (SP/LSA) regulations and its impact

on

similar interests in Canada. Included at the group's first meeting,
December 7-8 in

Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, were EAA Canadian Council members Denis

Browne,

Jack Dueck, Frank Hofmann, and Ted Slack.
_(read more)_ (http://www.sportpilot.org/news/041216_canada.html)

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Sorry Wayne !

I already resigned as a director of RAAT because of lack of time,
----- sooooooooo ...... unless something drastic happens,
YOU'RE <IT > !!

Also, was <pushed> away from National years ago - after
setting up decent systems for them on a shoestring !
(Now they need better systems still - and have wasted lots of money ! )

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 18 December 2004 02:29 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Hey Bob! Gary's looking for RAA headquarters support/directors and you're
already in Brampton and I'm not so........ LOL !

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:18 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Right on, Wayne !!

I'm a member of EAA, and enjoy Oshkosh & Sun 'n Fun, and think they
do a good job of dealing with the ridiculous bureaucracy of the FAA, and
are

generally good for aviation in the USA.

However - Canada has always had THE best set of rules for light
aviation IN THE WORLD ! We've had the AULA (Advanced Ulralight
Aircraft) category for over 10 years ! This category gives us MORE than
the Sport Category - we don't even need a drivers licence - and was
copied & mutilated to
become

the foundation for Sport Category. The mutilation was, I believe, a
determined attempt to slow growth, and protect old line manufacturers.
All this ASTM junk IS causing manufacturers to approach the whole issue
with a LOT of caution - it will be VERY difficult to satisfy the rules !
The

SP licence will move quickly, but the aircraft it needs will likely be
years

away !!

We've also had the Recreational Pilot Licence for many years - not the
overly restricted version used in the US, but a proven, practical licence
that

allows cross-country and passenger carrying in most light aircraft - even
4

seaters. (Only one passenger, though ....)

With OUR homebuilts, the REGISTERED OWNER, NOT JUST the BUILDER,
can do ALL MAINTENANCE ! Very reasonable, considering that no sane
person would want to fly in an unsafe aircraft, and the owners generally
know

more about their aircraft, and have more incentive to learn, than an AME
who

has only worked on spam-cans !

ALL of these rules were arrived at through discussion with all concerned
parties, through CARAC, LAMAC, and RAA.

It seems that whenever the EAA come to Canada, they just irritate our
officials by trying to tell them how THEY think we ought to do things !
How

would the FAA react if WE went to Washington and told them WE had a
better idea ??!! We already have it better than ANY other country -
this kind of 'help' we don't need !!!

........bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------

On Saturday 18 December 2004 01:16 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:
Problem is it's a bunch of EAA hogwash! Not how it went, was not a
meeting

requested by EAA and not what was supposed to be covered at this
meeting.

They tied up the 2 day meeting presenting information that was pretty
much

irrelevant or already know by all involved and had to be reminded that
the

LSA for the USA was being based on our TP10141 that has been used for
many,

many years now in Canada for AULA's (advanced Ultralights). The problem
(for aircraft manufacturers) is they took our, simple 30 page, TP10141
document (orignally written by Chris Heintz) and added ~ 400 pages of
ASTM

nonsense to it so the manufacturers have no flexibility what so ever to
what they manufacture.

Now they have to have another meeting to let our Light Aircraft
Manufactures Association present the proposal they have written up, to
Transport Canada, to start an entirely new (self regulated) category
for factory built aircraft. This is what was supposed to be covered at
this meeting and thanks to these outside sources trying to take the
glory for advancement in Canadian aviation we have been once again
delayed for at least 6 months.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

of

Canadian

the

new U.S.

on

December 7-8 in

Browne,

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Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Well, That shed some light on the opinions of LSA from our neighbors north
of the border. I didn't mean to get your adrenaline flowing. I can't disagree
with anything you say. I wasn't sure what to think when I saw it.

But for us in the US, we don't have the liberal regulations on small
aircraft as Canada, so we view the LSA as the best thing in aviation, for the US, in
my life time. It's all we have right now!

I wish the FAA had spent more time studying what Canada has done for years
with great success but that's not our governments style, unfortunately.

Bruce

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Meant to send you a PM Bruce! Wasn't jumping on you sending the email...just
the fact that I'm so #$(($#)* sick of EAA slanting their stories to make it
look like they initiate these meetings up here and take the glory for them.
They tried the same thing when we put together the advisor training seminars
for homebuilts. This brought them up right from Oshkosh.... to try and make
it look like they were spear heading and going to be a huge support to
Canadian homebuilders.

Was like when IOPA was mass mailing all the COPA members telling them they
were the voice for all of North America (and looking for membership money)
and Transport Canada rarely even corresponds with them.

I think the LSA is a GREAT improvement for aviation in the USA..don't get me
wrong on that. Guys coming up here and telling us all about the regs and how
the ASTM works is what really gets our goat...since LSA was admittedly used
as a base for this program and then they wasted 400 more pages of trees
writting it all up. As Bob says, we've had the AULA class for over 10
years..self regulated for airplanes to 1058lb gross and just recently raised
in the last few years to 1232lbs. These airplanes can be flown with a class
4 medical...which is self declared with absolutely no need to see a doctor
provided you have never been refused a medical by TC and can answer the
questions truthfully (without much lying!). Can it get any simpler than
that..since nothing says you even need a drivers licence?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Well, That shed some light on the opinions of LSA from our neighbors north
of the border. I didn't mean to get your adrenaline flowing. I can't

disagree

with anything you say. I wasn't sure what to think when I saw it.

But for us in the US, we don't have the liberal regulations on small
aircraft as Canada, so we view the LSA as the best thing in aviation, for

the US, in

my life time. It's all we have right now!

I wish the FAA had spent more time studying what Canada has done for years
with great success but that's not our governments style, unfortunately.

Bruce

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

3rd paragraphs.." since LSA was admittedly "...should read since TP10141 was
admittedly....

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Meant to send you a PM Bruce! Wasn't jumping on you sending the

email...just

the fact that I'm so #$(($#)* sick of EAA slanting their stories to make

it

look like they initiate these meetings up here and take the glory for

them.

They tried the same thing when we put together the advisor training

seminars

for homebuilts. This brought them up right from Oshkosh.... to try and

make

it look like they were spear heading and going to be a huge support to
Canadian homebuilders.

Was like when IOPA was mass mailing all the COPA members telling them they
were the voice for all of North America (and looking for membership money)
and Transport Canada rarely even corresponds with them.

I think the LSA is a GREAT improvement for aviation in the USA..don't get

me

wrong on that. Guys coming up here and telling us all about the regs and

how

the ASTM works is what really gets our goat...since LSA was admittedly

used

as a base for this program and then they wasted 400 more pages of trees
writting it all up. As Bob says, we've had the AULA class for over 10
years..self regulated for airplanes to 1058lb gross and just recently

raised

in the last few years to 1232lbs. These airplanes can be flown with a

class

4 medical...which is self declared with absolutely no need to see a doctor
provided you have never been refused a medical by TC and can answer the
questions truthfully (without much lying!). Can it get any simpler than
that..since nothing says you even need a drivers licence?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Well, That shed some light on the opinions of LSA from our neighbors

north

of the border. I didn't mean to get your adrenaline flowing. I can't
disagree
with anything you say. I wasn't sure what to think when I saw it.

But for us in the US, we don't have the liberal regulations on small
aircraft as Canada, so we view the LSA as the best thing in aviation,

for

the US, in
my life time. It's all we have right now!

I wish the FAA had spent more time studying what Canada has done for

years

with great success but that's not our governments style, unfortunately.

Bruce

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Walter Klatt · Post by **Walter Klatt** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

The one advantage with the US Sport Pilot license as I understand
it, is that they can get a medical with just a driver's license
and can take a passenger. In Canada, the self declared medical on
the UL permit is only good without a passenger. To take a
passenger, we need a doctor's medical.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Meant to send you a PM Bruce! Wasn't jumping on you
sending the email...just
the fact that I'm so #$(($#)* sick of EAA slanting
their stories to make it
look like they initiate these meetings up here and
take the glory for them.
They tried the same thing when we put together the
advisor training seminars
for homebuilts. This brought them up right from
Oshkosh.... to try and make
it look like they were spear heading and going to be a
huge support to
Canadian homebuilders.

Was like when IOPA was mass mailing all the COPA
members telling them they
were the voice for all of North America (and looking
for membership money)
and Transport Canada rarely even corresponds with them.

I think the LSA is a GREAT improvement for aviation in
the USA..don't get me
wrong on that. Guys coming up here and telling us all
about the regs and how
the ASTM works is what really gets our goat...since
LSA was admittedly used
as a base for this program and then they wasted 400
more pages of trees
writting it all up. As Bob says, we've had the AULA
class for over 10
years..self regulated for airplanes to 1058lb gross
and just recently raised
in the last few years to 1232lbs. These airplanes can
be flown with a class
4 medical...which is self declared with absolutely no
need to see a doctor
provided you have never been refused a medical by TC
and can answer the
questions truthfully (without much lying!). Can it get
any simpler than
that..since nothing says you even need a drivers licence?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Well, That shed some light on the opinions of LSA
from our neighbors north
of the border. I didn't mean to get your adrenaline
flowing. I can't
disagree
with anything you say. I wasn't sure what to think
when I saw it.
But for us in the US, we don't have the liberal
regulations on small
aircraft as Canada, so we view the LSA as the best
thing in aviation, for
the US, in
my life time. It's all we have right now!

I wish the FAA had spent more time studying what
Canada has done for years
with great success but that's not our governments
style, unfortunately.
Bruce

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Wayne G. O'Shea · Post by **Wayne G. O'Shea** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Yes Walter ...you are correct there. To carry a passenger with a
Recreational License in Canada you need a self declared class 4 that has the
addition of a doctors signature at the bottom. Doesn't need to be a TC
medical examiner..just your family doctor (or the dr friend in the hanger
next to you!)

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 5:42 PM
Subject: RE: US Sport Pilot regulations

The one advantage with the US Sport Pilot license as I understand
it, is that they can get a medical with just a driver's license
and can take a passenger. In Canada, the self declared medical on
the UL permit is only good without a passenger. To take a
passenger, we need a doctor's medical.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 2:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Meant to send you a PM Bruce! Wasn't jumping on you
sending the email...just
the fact that I'm so #$(($#)* sick of EAA slanting
their stories to make it
look like they initiate these meetings up here and
take the glory for them.
They tried the same thing when we put together the
advisor training seminars
for homebuilts. This brought them up right from
Oshkosh.... to try and make
it look like they were spear heading and going to be a
huge support to
Canadian homebuilders.

Was like when IOPA was mass mailing all the COPA
members telling them they
were the voice for all of North America (and looking
for membership money)
and Transport Canada rarely even corresponds with them.

I think the LSA is a GREAT improvement for aviation in
the USA..don't get me
wrong on that. Guys coming up here and telling us all
about the regs and how
the ASTM works is what really gets our goat...since
LSA was admittedly used
as a base for this program and then they wasted 400
more pages of trees
writting it all up. As Bob says, we've had the AULA
class for over 10
years..self regulated for airplanes to 1058lb gross
and just recently raised
in the last few years to 1232lbs. These airplanes can
be flown with a class
4 medical...which is self declared with absolutely no
need to see a doctor
provided you have never been refused a medical by TC
and can answer the
questions truthfully (without much lying!). Can it get
any simpler than
that..since nothing says you even need a drivers licence?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Well, That shed some light on the opinions of LSA
from our neighbors north
of the border. I didn't mean to get your adrenaline
flowing. I can't
disagree
with anything you say. I wasn't sure what to think
when I saw it.
But for us in the US, we don't have the liberal
regulations on small
aircraft as Canada, so we view the LSA as the best
thing in aviation, for
the US, in
my life time. It's all we have right now!

I wish the FAA had spent more time studying what
Canada has done for years
with great success but that's not our governments
style, unfortunately.
Bruce

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Well, That shed some light on the opinions of LSA from our neighbors north
of the border. I didn't mean to get your adrenaline flowing. I can't
disagree
with anything you say. I wasn't sure what to think when I saw it.

But for us in the US, we don't have the liberal regulations on small
aircraft as Canada, so we view the LSA as the best thing in aviation, for
the US, in
my life time. It's all we have right now!

The ultralight community sure doesn't view it as the "best thing in
aviation"! In fact, they refer to it as Sprot instead of Sport, and
commonly say "Let Sprot Rot!". They feel that it has taken away and
restricted many of the freedoms they have enjoyed for years. Of course,
most of these freedoms that they have enjoyed for so long are simply because
the FAA hasn't chosen to enforce Part 103 rules. A 254 lbs ultralight is
hard to come by!

Mike

I wish the FAA had spent more time studying what Canada has done for years
with great success but that's not our governments style, unfortunately.

Bruce

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

In the US the LSP medical requirements are this...

1. never been denied an FAA license
2. current drivers license

Theres no declaration or anything else. If a private pilot loses his
medical, he can not fly as a sport pilot... but if he simply lets his
medical expire, then he can. There is a review process that is supposed to
allow private pilots who have lost their medical to get their sport pilot,
but currently it is not something viewed as workable, and is being reviewed.

Mike

The one advantage with the US Sport Pilot license as I understand
it, is that they can get a medical with just a driver's license
and can take a passenger. In Canada, the self declared medical on
the UL permit is only good without a passenger. To take a
passenger, we need a doctor's medical.

Walter

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Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

This is almost correct. Actually, there are several courses of action from
the LSA medical/license viewpoint.
1- Fly Light Sport Aircraft to using a private pilot license / 3rd (or
higher) class medical.
2- Let your FAA medical expire and fly on a valid drivers license.
3- If you have ever gotten a communication from FAA using the word "denied",
jump through the hoops and get
it cleared or a special issuance and then let that expire and fly on a
valid drivers license.

In the meantime, the best way into the LSA air is with a 51% kit
experimental such as the Rebel/Rotax 912 which meets the LSA specs for
weight and performance. Those aircraft are available now. The ASTM
requirements apply to the "Special" and "Experimental" LSAs that will be
more than 49% built by the manufacturer.
Ralph Baker

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

In the US the LSP medical requirements are this...

1. never been denied an FAA license
2. current drivers license

Theres no declaration or anything else. If a private pilot loses his
medical, he can not fly as a sport pilot... but if he simply lets his
medical expire, then he can. There is a review process that is supposed

to

allow private pilots who have lost their medical to get their sport pilot,
but currently it is not something viewed as workable, and is being

reviewed.

Mike

The one advantage with the US Sport Pilot license as I understand
it, is that they can get a medical with just a driver's license
and can take a passenger. In Canada, the self declared medical on
the UL permit is only good without a passenger. To take a
passenger, we need a doctor's medical.

Walter

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LisaFly99 · Post by **LisaFly99** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

In a message dated 12/18/2004 1:19:55 PM Central Standard Time,
beep@sympatico.ca writes:

The mutilation was, I believe, a
determined attempt to slow growth, and protect old line manufacturers.
All this ASTM junk IS causing manufacturers to approach the whole issue
with a LOT of caution - it will be VERY difficult to satisfy the rules ! The
SP licence will move quickly, but the aircraft it needs will likely be years
away !!

You're right on there Bob! The more you spend on adds in their monthly
magazines, MAM included the more you're planes are featured. And if you think you
can get a private classic or restoration featured you better be able to make
a hefty donation.

ALL of these rules were arrived at through discussion with all concerned
parties, through CARAC, LAMAC, and RAA.

It seems that whenever the EAA come to Canada, they just irritate our
officials by trying to tell them how THEY think we ought to do things ! How
would the FAA react if WE went to Washington and told them WE had a
better idea ??!! We already have it better than ANY other country -
this kind of 'help' we don't need !!!
That's because they've dealt with the FAA / US government so long they've
developed their attitude of
(If it aint broke fix it till it is.)

Phil Smith

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Hi Bruce !

Ditto on Wayne's comments ! Didn't mean to jump on you -
just EAA antics !

I agree that the LSA is VERY good news for you folks -
it's just unfortunate that the licence will be quickly available, but
the mangling of the regs will likely stop or significantly delay the
production of LSA aircraft to complete the picture.

Ralph is right on !! The best way to go right now is - build an
amateur-built (experimental) Rebel with a Rotax 912-S --- this is
available and legal now, and can be flown with the LSA licence !
(and you get the Repairman's Certificate)

.......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Saturday 18 December 2004 05:10 pm, Wayne G. O'Shea wrote:

Meant to send you a PM Bruce! Wasn't jumping on you sending the
email...just the fact that I'm so #$(($#)* sick of EAA slanting their
stories to make it look like they initiate these meetings up here and take
the glory for them. They tried the same thing when we put together the
advisor training seminars for homebuilts. This brought them up right from
Oshkosh.... to try and make it look like they were spear heading and going
to be a huge support to Canadian homebuilders.

Was like when IOPA was mass mailing all the COPA members telling them they
were the voice for all of North America (and looking for membership money)
and Transport Canada rarely even corresponds with them.

I think the LSA is a GREAT improvement for aviation in the USA..don't get
me wrong on that. Guys coming up here and telling us all about the regs and
how the ASTM works is what really gets our goat...since LSA was admittedly
used as a base for this program and then they wasted 400 more pages of
trees writting it all up. As Bob says, we've had the AULA class for over 10
years..self regulated for airplanes to 1058lb gross and just recently
raised in the last few years to 1232lbs. These airplanes can be flown with
a class 4 medical...which is self declared with absolutely no need to see a
doctor provided you have never been refused a medical by TC and can answer
the questions truthfully (without much lying!). Can it get any simpler than
that..since nothing says you even need a drivers licence?

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: US Sport Pilot regulations

Well, That shed some light on the opinions of LSA from our neighbors
north of the border. I didn't mean to get your adrenaline flowing. I
can't
disagree

with anything you say. I wasn't sure what to think when I saw it.

But for us in the US, we don't have the liberal regulations on small
aircraft as Canada, so we view the LSA as the best thing in aviation, for
the US, in

my life time. It's all we have right now!

I wish the FAA had spent more time studying what Canada has done for
years with great success but that's not our governments style,
unfortunately.

Bruce

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