4 door Cowl

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Mike. not really any need to roll the doors. Just use poster board to make
your patterns after getting the frame work all togther and transfer to .020
or .025 sheet. To avoid getting any puckers in your doors always put a hand
underneath as you pull it around the firewall corner and into position...or
when fitting find something about 6" in diameter and hand bend the door
around it slightly.

Unfortunately my construction pics of the 4 door cowling are pre digital for
me...so I only have them in my albums and no scanner currently working in
the house.

I took some more recently pics of the completed 4 door cowl for others that
were posted in the archives...but think they were lost. Will dig them back
up and repost when I can.

Mainly the channels are built from flat sheet, two angles and two hinges per
channel. This gives a nice "fork" for each end so it can slip over the
firewall lip and nose bowl lip. Anchor nuts are secured to the angle piece
ends so this gives the hole in the outer flat panel, the nose bowl (or
firewall lip) for the screw to go thru first and then thread into the anchor
nut.

There are a couple pics on my website www.irishfield.on.ca in the "services"
section..."engine installations"..."O-235" but will dig you up some more!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: "Rebel List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: SR Chevy engine mount and Cowl

My engine mount is nearing completion. I just uploaded two new pictures

to

the SR engine section. Finger straps and gussets still need to be added
here and there. Also, a horizontal tube between the two upper engine

mount

points on the firewall will be added to stiffen the mount. If you pull

the

upper bolt on one side as it is now the mount still has a lot of flex.
Instead of relying on the channel riveted to the firewall to account for
this we decided we wanted the mount to be stiff on it's own.

I discussed Ken's comments with my mount builder and I think most of Ken's
concerns are addressed by the cross pieces that are now visible in the

most

recent pics that I uploaded. Downward forces on the rear mount points are
accounted for with the tube from the upper fuselage point to the point

below

the rear engine mount point. Outward forces on the rear mount point are
accounted for with the cross pieces at the lower rear of the mount that
weren't in the original pics. The rear mount points are now the apex of a
four point pyramid. Although I know adding a tube from the top firewall
points to the rear engine mount points would add strength, I'm not sure it
is necessary with the current configuration. The tube in it's current
position definitely has less of a bending moment on it then a tube going
directly from the firewall points to the engine mount points would. I'm
going to take one last look at it this weekend and make a final decision
about whether or not to add another tube. Thanks again Ken for your

input.

I am now looking ahead to the cowling. I wonder if Bob and others could
tell me more about the channels used to begin building the four door cowl?
I have asked Murphy to quote me on three channels just like the one on the
firewall between the upper mount points but five feet in length. I was
thinking that I could use those as the left, right, and upper channels to
start the four door cowl idea. I think they are 3-inch channels with

1-inch

flanges made from something like 0.040 or 0.062 aluminum. (I'm not in my
shop - just guessing from memory). Next, I still want to find an
off-the-shelf nose bowl that would work. Any ideas on that? Lastly, I'm
hoping that I can simply form the cowl skins by hand somehow since I don't
have a sheet metal roller. Any ideas on that? HELP! Thanks

Mike Kimball
SR044




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Should add the top channel section also as a "top hat" section in it for
rigidity.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl

Mike. not really any need to roll the doors. Just use poster board to make
your patterns after getting the frame work all togther and transfer to

.020

or .025 sheet. To avoid getting any puckers in your doors always put a

hand

underneath as you pull it around the firewall corner and into

position...or

when fitting find something about 6" in diameter and hand bend the door
around it slightly.

Unfortunately my construction pics of the 4 door cowling are pre digital

for

me...so I only have them in my albums and no scanner currently working in
the house.

I took some more recently pics of the completed 4 door cowl for others

that

were posted in the archives...but think they were lost. Will dig them back
up and repost when I can.

Mainly the channels are built from flat sheet, two angles and two hinges

per

channel. This gives a nice "fork" for each end so it can slip over the
firewall lip and nose bowl lip. Anchor nuts are secured to the angle piece
ends so this gives the hole in the outer flat panel, the nose bowl (or
firewall lip) for the screw to go thru first and then thread into the

anchor

nut.

There are a couple pics on my website www.irishfield.on.ca in the

"services"

section..."engine installations"..."O-235" but will dig you up some more!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: "Rebel List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: SR Chevy engine mount and Cowl

My engine mount is nearing completion. I just uploaded two new pictures

to

the SR engine section. Finger straps and gussets still need to be added
here and there. Also, a horizontal tube between the two upper engine

mount

points on the firewall will be added to stiffen the mount. If you pull

the

upper bolt on one side as it is now the mount still has a lot of flex.
Instead of relying on the channel riveted to the firewall to account for
this we decided we wanted the mount to be stiff on it's own.

I discussed Ken's comments with my mount builder and I think most of

Ken's

concerns are addressed by the cross pieces that are now visible in the

most

recent pics that I uploaded. Downward forces on the rear mount points

are

accounted for with the tube from the upper fuselage point to the point

below

the rear engine mount point. Outward forces on the rear mount point are
accounted for with the cross pieces at the lower rear of the mount that
weren't in the original pics. The rear mount points are now the apex of

a

four point pyramid. Although I know adding a tube from the top firewall
points to the rear engine mount points would add strength, I'm not sure

it

is necessary with the current configuration. The tube in it's current
position definitely has less of a bending moment on it then a tube going
directly from the firewall points to the engine mount points would. I'm
going to take one last look at it this weekend and make a final decision
about whether or not to add another tube. Thanks again Ken for your

input.

I am now looking ahead to the cowling. I wonder if Bob and others could
tell me more about the channels used to begin building the four door

cowl?

I have asked Murphy to quote me on three channels just like the one on

the

firewall between the upper mount points but five feet in length. I was
thinking that I could use those as the left, right, and upper channels

to

start the four door cowl idea. I think they are 3-inch channels with

1-inch

flanges made from something like 0.040 or 0.062 aluminum. (I'm not in

my

shop - just guessing from memory). Next, I still want to find an
off-the-shelf nose bowl that would work. Any ideas on that? Lastly,

I'm

hoping that I can simply form the cowl skins by hand somehow since I

don't

have a sheet metal roller. Any ideas on that? HELP! Thanks

Mike Kimball
SR044




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Mike...someone was nice enough to have saved and then reposted six pictures
of my 4 door cowling in Rebel - cowling on the site. Should give you a good
idea of how to do it. Angles need be nothing more than .032..flat panels
.025 with the hinge sandwiched between them.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 5:04 PM
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl

Should add the top channel section also as a "top hat" section in it for
rigidity.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 4:55 PM
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl

Mike. not really any need to roll the doors. Just use poster board to

make

your patterns after getting the frame work all togther and transfer to

.020

or .025 sheet. To avoid getting any puckers in your doors always put a

hand

underneath as you pull it around the firewall corner and into

position...or

when fitting find something about 6" in diameter and hand bend the door
around it slightly.

Unfortunately my construction pics of the 4 door cowling are pre digital

for

me...so I only have them in my albums and no scanner currently working

in

the house.

I took some more recently pics of the completed 4 door cowl for others

that

were posted in the archives...but think they were lost. Will dig them

back

up and repost when I can.

Mainly the channels are built from flat sheet, two angles and two hinges

per

channel. This gives a nice "fork" for each end so it can slip over the
firewall lip and nose bowl lip. Anchor nuts are secured to the angle

piece

ends so this gives the hole in the outer flat panel, the nose bowl (or
firewall lip) for the screw to go thru first and then thread into the

anchor

nut.

There are a couple pics on my website www.irishfield.on.ca in the

"services"

section..."engine installations"..."O-235" but will dig you up some

more!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Kimball" <mkimball@gci.net>
To: "Rebel List" <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 4:45 PM
Subject: SR Chevy engine mount and Cowl

My engine mount is nearing completion. I just uploaded two new

pictures

to

the SR engine section. Finger straps and gussets still need to be

added

here and there. Also, a horizontal tube between the two upper engine

mount

points on the firewall will be added to stiffen the mount. If you

pull

the

upper bolt on one side as it is now the mount still has a lot of flex.
Instead of relying on the channel riveted to the firewall to account

for

this we decided we wanted the mount to be stiff on it's own.

I discussed Ken's comments with my mount builder and I think most of

Ken's

concerns are addressed by the cross pieces that are now visible in the

most

recent pics that I uploaded. Downward forces on the rear mount points

are

accounted for with the tube from the upper fuselage point to the point

below

the rear engine mount point. Outward forces on the rear mount point

are

accounted for with the cross pieces at the lower rear of the mount

that

weren't in the original pics. The rear mount points are now the apex

of

a

four point pyramid. Although I know adding a tube from the top

firewall

points to the rear engine mount points would add strength, I'm not

sure

it

is necessary with the current configuration. The tube in it's current
position definitely has less of a bending moment on it then a tube

going

directly from the firewall points to the engine mount points would.

I'm

going to take one last look at it this weekend and make a final

decision

about whether or not to add another tube. Thanks again Ken for your

input.

I am now looking ahead to the cowling. I wonder if Bob and others

could

tell me more about the channels used to begin building the four door

cowl?

I have asked Murphy to quote me on three channels just like the one on

the

firewall between the upper mount points but five feet in length. I

was

thinking that I could use those as the left, right, and upper channels

to

start the four door cowl idea. I think they are 3-inch channels with

1-inch

flanges made from something like 0.040 or 0.062 aluminum. (I'm not in

my

shop - just guessing from memory). Next, I still want to find an
off-the-shelf nose bowl that would work. Any ideas on that? Lastly,

I'm

hoping that I can simply form the cowl skins by hand somehow since I

don't

have a sheet metal roller. Any ideas on that? HELP! Thanks

Mike Kimball
SR044




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[LisaFly99]

MIKE
I only had doors on the top, but to keep it's shape I took 1/4" X .035 or
.049 can't remember aluminum tubing bent it to the radius I needed and riveted
it to the back of the cowling door. That way it wouldn't want to pucker on
you when you went to close it.
PD Smith




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[rognal]

Mike,

I uploaded 14 photos to the Rebel-Cowling archives showing how I built the
Rebel 4 door cowling. I used the Murphy instructions for the basic
construction, modifying the lower panels per Wayne's instructions and photo's
( I hope I got it somewhat right, Wayne?).

I think I will strengthen the bracing underneath at the rear opening. I
didn't build the bracing in the same manner that Wayne did, using two
triangular .032 gussets instead. The MC-3B weighs about 3-5 pounds
(estimated), but with it hanging 30 inches out in front I think I will beef-
up the bracing a bit with heavier and longer gussets.

Hope this helps.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Looks EXCELLENT Roger...as does everything else I can see in the pictures!
Nice clean build....and of course I like your choice of "mods"... but then
again I'm a bit biased! Looks like you're just about ready for flight!

Cheers,
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl

Mike,

I uploaded 14 photos to the Rebel-Cowling archives showing how I built the
Rebel 4 door cowling. I used the Murphy instructions for the basic
construction, modifying the lower panels per Wayne's instructions and

photo's

( I hope I got it somewhat right, Wayne?).

I think I will strengthen the bracing underneath at the rear opening. I
didn't build the bracing in the same manner that Wayne did, using two
triangular .032 gussets instead. The MC-3B weighs about 3-5 pounds
(estimated), but with it hanging 30 inches out in front I think I will

beef-

up the bracing a bit with heavier and longer gussets.

Hope this helps.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




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[Mike Kimball]

Awesome! It looks so simple and easy! Which means I'm sure it's not. I
wonder - will I be the first Super Rebel with a four door cowl? The photos
tell the whole tale! Who needs instructions? MAM should simply delete the
text from their manuals and just include hundreds of pictures like this.
Many thanks Roger, Wayne, and PD. The bent-tube-to-stiffen-the-door-panels
idea will be added to mine as well. All I need now is a nose bowl. I fear I
may end up fabricating one from foam and fiberglass. I was hoping to avoid
that messy proposition.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rognal@dcsol.com
Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 8:30 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl


Mike,

I uploaded 14 photos to the Rebel-Cowling archives showing how I built the
Rebel 4 door cowling. I used the Murphy instructions for the basic
construction, modifying the lower panels per Wayne's instructions and
photo's
( I hope I got it somewhat right, Wayne?).

I think I will strengthen the bracing underneath at the rear opening. I
didn't build the bracing in the same manner that Wayne did, using two
triangular .032 gussets instead. The MC-3B weighs about 3-5 pounds
(estimated), but with it hanging 30 inches out in front I think I will beef-
up the bracing a bit with heavier and longer gussets.

Hope this helps.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




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[rognal]

Thanks Wayne & Mike. After nearly 5 years of building, I'm thinking maybe
next summer for a first flight?

90% done, 90% to go.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!



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[Joel Jacobs]

Wow! Those cowl pictures are great! Thank you for up-loading them. I have
a question for you folks making these type of cowls. Do you put anti-chaff
tape between the doors and the nosebowl and firewall flanges? I didn't see
any in the pictures and it seems you might have trouble getting the doors
closed if you put it on after the doors are fitted. But then I thought
maybe the full length piano hinges hold everything together so well that
chaff strips might not be needed?? The cowl doors on my Luscombe had rubber
U channels around the door and they kept falling off, a real pain.
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl

Mike,

I uploaded 14 photos to the Rebel-Cowling archives showing how I built the
Rebel 4 door cowling. I used the Murphy instructions for the basic
construction, modifying the lower panels per Wayne's instructions and

photo's

( I hope I got it somewhat right, Wayne?).

I think I will strengthen the bracing underneath at the rear opening. I
didn't build the bracing in the same manner that Wayne did, using two
triangular .032 gussets instead. The MC-3B weighs about 3-5 pounds
(estimated), but with it hanging 30 inches out in front I think I will

beef-

up the bracing a bit with heavier and longer gussets.

Hope this helps.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Good point Joel...YES you need something or they will cut thru the
Fus-10(70) on the corners. You can dumby this thickness while you build by
taping an extra layer of the poster board in place. I would also like to add
that for a flush look at the nose you can use .032 or .040 (and a bunch of
shrinking/joggling) to make an extended lip riveted onto the fiberglass nose
bowl. This way the doors will close down onto it and not the
fiberglass....and then sit flush or slightly below the surface of the nose
bowl.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joel Jacobs" <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl

Wow! Those cowl pictures are great! Thank you for up-loading them. I

have

a question for you folks making these type of cowls. Do you put

anti-chaff

tape between the doors and the nosebowl and firewall flanges? I didn't

see

any in the pictures and it seems you might have trouble getting the doors
closed if you put it on after the doors are fitted. But then I thought
maybe the full length piano hinges hold everything together so well that
chaff strips might not be needed?? The cowl doors on my Luscombe had

rubber

U channels around the door and they kept falling off, a real pain.
Joel

----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 12:30 AM
Subject: Re: 4 door Cowl

Mike,

I uploaded 14 photos to the Rebel-Cowling archives showing how I built

the

Rebel 4 door cowling. I used the Murphy instructions for the basic
construction, modifying the lower panels per Wayne's instructions and

photo's

( I hope I got it somewhat right, Wayne?).

I think I will strengthen the bracing underneath at the rear opening. I
didn't build the bracing in the same manner that Wayne did, using two
triangular .032 gussets instead. The MC-3B weighs about 3-5 pounds
(estimated), but with it hanging 30 inches out in front I think I will

beef-

up the bracing a bit with heavier and longer gussets.

Hope this helps.

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!




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[Charlie Eubanks]

Hello All
I and starting to build the 4 door cowl for my Rebel. I have downloaded most
photos I could find and just read through about a hundred messages in the
archives looking for any help or tips. The one thing I could not find
mentioned was the preferred aluminum thickness and alloy type for the skin?
Would also appreciate any other thoughts and advice..
Charlie E. Rebel 802R




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