insurance

WALTER KLATT · Post by **WALTER KLATT** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 am

I had full hull insurance during my first year of amphib flying on the Rebel, which was effective immediately with the first flight, but I had to have an instructor until I got my float rating, which I then received 2 days later. That was a few years ago, and sounds like that might be a little more difficult today. I think what helped me, though, is that I had a couple hundred hours previously flying an amphib ultralight.

After the first year, I changed my insurance expiry date to Oct 1, and then initially insured it for only liability. Then the following year, I would upgrade the insurance to full hull for July 1, giving me full coverage for the 3 remaining months to Oct 1. This way I had full coverage during the months when I would fly the most, and go on trips. During the other 9 months, most of my flying was local, so definitely less risk.

They don't like it, but I guess decided 3 months of extra income for them is better than nothing. If you tried to do it the other way around, ie get full hull and then cancel it at the end of the summer, they won't do it.

The 3 months hull coverage cost me just a little over $1000 for the Rebel, which is a lot less than the over $4000 for the year. I have done this for a couple years now, and at this point in my flying, am even considering whether I want to continue with the 3 month full hull. The savings can definitely add up over time and pay for a serious prang-up. And with a Moose this would be even more.

And the Rebel is such an easy and forgiving plane to fly on amphibs, much more so than on wheels as a taildragger. Just don't ever have that gear in the wrong position for a landing.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 3, 2004 9:26 am
Subject: Re: Insurance

Insurance,

Now we are talking the real meat of the float plane problem.
How to get
insurance? I am just starting to look again for 2005. The
first year
(2003) COPA decline me haul insurance because I needed 20 hours
on type,
so thanks to a friend I went out and got 30 hours and tried
again. When
I applied again they just flat out refused haul coverage - said they
were not comfortable with the Moose. In 2004 they said I now
need 100
hours for haul insurance. So now that I have 200 hours of float
time and
about the same on the moose and I will try again. Now that I
have flow
2 years with no haul insurance and saved the 10K a year I might be
tempted to try my luck another year.
$10K a years would replace a lot of bent skins!

Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 am

Hi Ryan !

Try calling Bill Cameron at Rhodes & Williams in Toronto -
(905) 513-7600 (Think they have an 800 number, too ...)
Tell himI said if anybody could get you covered, he could !

Bill has obtained coverage for lots of Rebels & Meese in our area -
even got cover for guys with ZERO hours, so they could take lessons
on their newly-finished Rebels. When I did my amphibs, they were
insisting on 25 hours dual for the float rating, but would provide full
hull while with the instructor, then gave it to me after the rating was
completed. Bill haggled with them, because of my high Rebel time, and
over 600 hours retractable, and they finally agreed to 15 hours, but that
was the lowest....

I always recommend that builders "cover it to the ears" for at least
the first year - losing the airplane does enough damage to the psyche,
without adding in the financial loss !!! ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 03 November 2004 12:10 pm, Ryan Mowat wrote:

Insurance,

Now we are talking the real meat of the float plane problem. How to get
insurance? I am just starting to look again for 2005. The first year
(2003) COPA decline me haul insurance because I needed 20 hours on type,
so thanks to a friend I went out and got 30 hours and tried again. When
I applied again they just flat out refused haul coverage - said they
were not comfortable with the Moose. In 2004 they said I now need 100
hours for haul insurance. So now that I have 200 hours of float time and
about the same on the moose and I will try again. Now that I have flow
2 years with no haul insurance and saved the 10K a year I might be
tempted to try my luck another year.

Gary, as far as check outs, I'd be happy to fly with anyone that is
crossing the country with a moose, or rebel. Might be a bit of a push
to say that a Moose is the same type as a rebel, sort of saying a Cessna
172 is the same as a Cessna 206, but if the insurance company says OK, I
would be happy to make the trip. I am commercial and IFR with over 500
hours.

Dick and Dave, glad to hear you guys are in the flight testing phase.
Sure is fun - CGASR flight testing phase is still on going after 170
hours, but it is really feeling good now, VG's and wing tips made a huge
improvement and increasing the up elevator to 28 degrees really helps
with water landings. The other change I've made was to re rig the flaps
so that I do not carry 1 notch of flap in flight - did this by adjusting
the ailerons and flaps down a bit - get rid of the reflex. This last
change made the plane really fly nice in cruise (on floats of course).
The other flight test change was CG - moved the air tank and battery
back in the tail so that I can fly 15" - 20" aft of leading edge most of
the time MT or Full.

Ryan Mowat

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Garry Wright
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: new arrival

It appears that a commercial pilot with 500 hours and 100 hours on type
(whatever that means) is fine. I think type means amphibs in this case.
An instructor rating is not required. It is also possible to get special
approval for someone with a private but lots of hours on type for the
purpose in some cases. Haven't tried that yet though.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Legeorgen · Post by **Legeorgen** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 am

My Rebel insurance was $4800 US the first year on amphibs with haul at only
65k from April to Oct. I had over 600 total time with 128 retractable but no
amphib time. The Falcon insurance Co. wanted 10 hours dual in the Rebel amphib
only. Not a Cub I got my rating in.

I think it may be cheaper the second year, I haven't got a quote yet, but I'm
not holding my breath. I don't think I'll insure it next year for that cost.
I'll take my chances with just liability.

Bruce

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Garry Wright · Post by **Garry Wright** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:40 am

Ryan,

COPA's underwriter agreed to Bob Patterson as the dual pilot today.
Thanks for your offer, it looks like the problem is solved. Once I get
my hours up, I too will be able to make such an offer. About a year from
now and happy to do it. I did not check with COPA on the Moose/Rebel
type thing so don't know the answer to it. Type seems to me to mean just
amphib but they seemed pretty happy to have a guy with a zillion hours
in a Rebel to do it.

Cheers
Garry

On 3 Nov, Ryan Mowat wrote:

Insurance,

Now we are talking the real meat of the float plane problem. How to
get insurance? I am just starting to look again for 2005. The first
year
(2003) COPA decline me haul insurance because I needed 20 hours on
type, so thanks to a friend I went out and got 30 hours and tried
again. When I applied again they just flat out refused haul coverage
- said they were not comfortable with the Moose. In 2004 they said I
now need 100 hours for haul insurance. So now that I have 200 hours of
float time and about the same on the moose and I will try again. Now
that I have flow 2 years with no haul insurance and saved the 10K a
year I might be tempted to try my luck another year.

Gary, as far as check outs, I'd be happy to fly with anyone that is
crossing the country with a moose, or rebel. Might be a bit of a push
to say that a Moose is the same type as a rebel, sort of saying a
Cessna 172 is the same as a Cessna 206, but if the insurance company
says OK, I would be happy to make the trip. I am commercial and IFR
with over 500 hours.

Dick and Dave, glad to hear you guys are in the flight testing phase.
Sure is fun - CGASR flight testing phase is still on going after 170
hours, but it is really feeling good now, VG's and wing tips made a
huge improvement and increasing the up elevator to 28 degrees really
helps with water landings. The other change I've made was to re rig
the flaps so that I do not carry 1 notch of flap in flight - did this
by adjusting the ailerons and flaps down a bit - get rid of the
reflex. This last change made the plane really fly nice in cruise (on
floats of course). The other flight test change was CG - moved the air
tank and battery back in the tail so that I can fly 15" - 20" aft of
leading edge most of the time MT or Full.

Ryan Mowat

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Garry Wright
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: new arrival

It appears that a commercial pilot with 500 hours and 100 hours on
type
(whatever that means) is fine. I think type means amphibs in this case.
An instructor rating is not required. It is also possible to get
special approval for someone with a private but lots of hours on type
for the purpose in some cases. Haven't tried that yet though.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

--
Garry Wright
Rebel 068 Amphib C-FOKM
VA6EB
email: wrightdg@ca.inter.net
Phone 403 931 1573

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

british thunder · Post by **british thunder** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:46 am

Is there going to be a builders meeting this Sunday?
If so where and what time?
Cec 014R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <beep@sympatico.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: Insurance

Hi Ryan !

Try calling Bill Cameron at Rhodes & Williams in Toronto -
(905) 513-7600 (Think they have an 800 number, too ...)
Tell himI said if anybody could get you covered, he could !

Bill has obtained coverage for lots of Rebels & Meese in our area -
even got cover for guys with ZERO hours, so they could take lessons
on their newly-finished Rebels. When I did my amphibs, they were
insisting on 25 hours dual for the float rating, but would provide full
hull while with the instructor, then gave it to me after the rating was
completed. Bill haggled with them, because of my high Rebel time, and
over 600 hours retractable, and they finally agreed to 15 hours, but that
was the lowest....

I always recommend that builders "cover it to the ears" for at least
the first year - losing the airplane does enough damage to the psyche,
without adding in the financial loss !!! ;-)

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Wednesday 03 November 2004 12:10 pm, Ryan Mowat wrote:
Insurance,

Now we are talking the real meat of the float plane problem. How to get
insurance? I am just starting to look again for 2005. The first year
(2003) COPA decline me haul insurance because I needed 20 hours on type,
so thanks to a friend I went out and got 30 hours and tried again. When
I applied again they just flat out refused haul coverage - said they
were not comfortable with the Moose. In 2004 they said I now need 100
hours for haul insurance. So now that I have 200 hours of float time and
about the same on the moose and I will try again. Now that I have flow
2 years with no haul insurance and saved the 10K a year I might be
tempted to try my luck another year.

Gary, as far as check outs, I'd be happy to fly with anyone that is
crossing the country with a moose, or rebel. Might be a bit of a push
to say that a Moose is the same type as a rebel, sort of saying a Cessna
172 is the same as a Cessna 206, but if the insurance company says OK, I
would be happy to make the trip. I am commercial and IFR with over 500
hours.

Dick and Dave, glad to hear you guys are in the flight testing phase.
Sure is fun - CGASR flight testing phase is still on going after 170
hours, but it is really feeling good now, VG's and wing tips made a huge
improvement and increasing the up elevator to 28 degrees really helps
with water landings. The other change I've made was to re rig the flaps
so that I do not carry 1 notch of flap in flight - did this by adjusting
the ailerons and flaps down a bit - get rid of the reflex. This last
change made the plane really fly nice in cruise (on floats of course).
The other flight test change was CG - moved the air tank and battery
back in the tail so that I can fly 15" - 20" aft of leading edge most of
the time MT or Full.

Ryan Mowat

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Garry Wright
Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 8:27 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: new arrival

It appears that a commercial pilot with 500 hours and 100 hours on type
(whatever that means) is fine. I think type means amphibs in this case.
An instructor rating is not required. It is also possible to get special
approval for someone with a private but lots of hours on type for the
purpose in some cases. Haven't tried that yet though.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike Betti · Post by **Mike Betti** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Hi all,
What are U.S. builders doing for insurance on projects under
contruction? Anybody recommend a company. My home-owners insurance says
anything with an engine on it isn't covered at any stage.
Thanks,
Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

When I looked into this Falcon was willing to do it in the lower 48, but not
in Alaska... I never did find anyone to do it in Alaska.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Betti" <mbetti@up.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 02, 2005 10:35 AM
Subject: Insurance

Hi all,
What are U.S. builders doing for insurance on projects under
contruction? Anybody recommend a company. My home-owners insurance says
anything with an engine on it isn't covered at any stage.
Thanks,
Mike

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://www.dcsol.com/login?mode=HTML
username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
https://www.dcsol.com/public/code/html-subscribe.htm
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Ralph Baker · Post by **Ralph Baker** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:58 am

Mike,
Mine is with Falcon through EAA. My reasoning is that I wanted to start
a dialog with them so there would (I hope) be less of a problem at
flying time. I think they will also cover the first 10 flights if you
use an EAA tech advisor as Avemco used to do. I have talked to Falcon
several times at Sun&Fun and they are as cooperative as you can expect
an insurance company to be. Don't forget to up the ante as avionics and
engine are added.
Ralph Baker

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Angus McKenzie · Post by **Angus McKenzie** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 5:02 pm

I'm paying $1800 CDN with Global, through Elliot and Crawford, Burlington
ON. for 1million lib./100K pass. coverage and $100,000 hull/all perils NOT
in motion. So as soon as the engine starts no hull coverage but if it sinks
tied to the dock in a storm $100k.........Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 12:24 AM
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] 0-200 MOTOR MOUNT

At 12:51 PM 11/14/2008 -0600, you wrote:
I realize that but just wondered what others were having to pay.
EJ
55K hull on wheels costs me $1500. 65K on amphibs is about $100 a month
extra.
Drew

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------
List archives located at: https://mail.dcsol.com/login
username "rebel" password "builder"
Unsubscribe: rebel-builders-unsubscribe@dcsol.com
List administrator: mike.davis@dcsol.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------