Subaru power, was Firewall Location

bransom · Post by **bransom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Joel,
Curious about a couple things:
1. Do you have an approximate number for the weight of your RFI redrive?
2. Did you get any indication from Don Parham that the cam regrind was a bad
idea, or not tried by many, or other problems? I ask because there are a
smattering of early glowing reports about the improvements from the Delta
cam, but I've not heard of any flying Soobs that have it. I don't know
whether Crossflow uses it but they sure do report some big HP numbers (180hp
normal aspiration from a 2.0) that must come from more than port polishing.
-Ben/ 496R

Hi Bob,
Yeah I figured the stock engine will be plenty. What redrive(belt or
gear) and prop was on the one you flew?

About the panel, 1/8 thick seems kinda heavy. I was thinking maybe use
some U channel like the stab spars are made from..

Joel

Hi Joel !

I wouldn't worry about the cams ! I've flown Rebels with the factory-

stock

2.2 Legacy engine - stock fuel injection, stock computer, everything

untouched

- worked great !!! Enough power for most normal flying, and smooth &

very

fuel efficient !

Thanks for the site address - lots of useful info there ! Looks like you

are

doing a superb job ! Guess you are going to run a 1/8" thick 1 1/2" or 2"
angle along the bottom of the instrument panel to mount throttle, trim,

etc.

AND strengthen the whole fuse by tying it to the door posts ....
This is fairly common practice now.

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.-------------------------
On Thursday 21 October 2004 04:33 am, Joel Jacobs wrote:

Hi Neil,
I did the conversion myself. I built the redrive from RFI plans - a few
mods. Should be good for about 135hp. Here''s a picture:
http://ocer.dyndns.org/gallery/view_photo.php?

set_albumName=Engine&id=engin

e23 I hear there's a set of cams I coukd get that would get it up to

160hp

but I think I'll leave it stock for a while and see if I really need to
burn that much gas...
Joel

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Joel Jacobs · Post by **Joel Jacobs** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: Subaru power, was Firewall Location

Joel,
Curious about a couple things:
1. Do you have an approximate number for the weight of your RFI redrive?

I'm sorry, I did'nt weigh it. It's fairly heavy though. The 3/4" backplate
is substantual, as is the 4140 stub shaft. With the aluminum flywheel and
all if I was to take a guess I'd say somewhere between 60 and 70 lbs. I'm
planning to wheigh the whole shebang when I hoist it off the test stand to
mount it on my firewall along with finding it's CG.

2. Did you get any indication from Don Parham that the cam regrind was a

bad

idea, or not tried by many, or other problems? I ask because there are a
smattering of early glowing reports about the improvements from the Delta
cam, but I've not heard of any flying Soobs that have it. I don't know
whether Crossflow uses it but they sure do report some big HP numbers

(180hp

normal aspiration from a 2.0) that must come from more than port

polishing.

-Ben/ 496R

No indications it was a bad idea Ben. I just want to fly a while with it
stock so I could have something to compare it to if I do try the cams. I
also would need to speak with other people using the grind in an aircraft to
see how it's working for them. Since you have to send in your own cams for
the re-grind there's no going back!

Joel

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bransom · Post by **bransom** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

If the cams didn't work out, I would think replacements should still be
fairly easy to track down -- easy, cheap parts is (in theory) part of the
Soob appeal. Thanks for the weight estimate too.
-Ben

Joel,
Curious about a couple things:
1. Do you have an approximate number for the weight of your RFI redrive?
I'm sorry, I did'nt weigh it. It's fairly heavy though. The 3/4" backplate
is substantual, as is the 4140 stub shaft. With the aluminum flywheel and
all if I was to take a guess I'd say somewhere between 60 and 70 lbs. I'm
planning to wheigh the whole shebang when I hoist it off the test stand to
mount it on my firewall along with finding it's CG.

2. Did you get any indication from Don Parham that the cam regrind was a
bad
idea, or not tried by many, or other problems? I ask because there are a
smattering of early glowing reports about the improvements from the Delta
cam, but I've not heard of any flying Soobs that have it. I don't know
whether Crossflow uses it but they sure do report some big HP numbers
(180hp
normal aspiration from a 2.0) that must come from more than port
polishing.
-Ben/ 496R
No indications it was a bad idea Ben. I just want to fly a while with it
stock so I could have something to compare it to if I do try the cams. I
also would need to speak with other people using the grind in an aircraft to
see how it's working for them. Since you have to send in your own cams for
the re-grind there's no going back!

Joel

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Actually I have found Soob parts for the EJ engines quite pricey by
automotive standards with few aftermarket engine parts available last
time I checked. They are also difficult to find in the wreckers since
few were sold initially and the vehicles last well if not crashed. I
suspect that the demand from fellow aviators is not helping the
situation. If crashed the cam sprockets are often damaged. If possible
I'd recommend you get the entire car if using Soob electronics and even
then I would try to use an engine that was sold in both Japan and your
home country so that new parts are available locally and also used
replacement engines from the Japan importers are also available. For
example the 2.0 has only been sold locally for the last couple of years
and the 2.2 was not sold in Japan last time I checked due to taxes on
greater than 2 liters displacement.

As far as cams go, there have been problems develop on some engines as
folks try to "improve" the cams and valve trains so I agree that even on
a 2.2 it might be wise to tread cautiously. A cam grind does change
valve train geometry of course. More power does not usually equate to
more reliability and neither do most other engine mods...

So remember guys, next time you have an accident - help us out and aim
for the back of a Soob ;)

Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

If the cams didn't work out, I would think replacements should still be
fairly easy to track down -- easy, cheap parts is (in theory) part of the
Soob appeal. Thanks for the weight estimate too.
-Ben

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Neil Hardie · Post by **Neil Hardie** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

But if the Soob is a green outback and has a COPA sticker on the back
window - brake hard.............It's me!

Neil Hardie

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Subaru power, was Firewall Location

Actually I have found Soob parts for the EJ engines quite pricey by
automotive standards with few aftermarket engine parts available last
time I checked. They are also difficult to find in the wreckers since
few were sold initially and the vehicles last well if not crashed. I
suspect that the demand from fellow aviators is not helping the
situation. If crashed the cam sprockets are often damaged. If possible
I'd recommend you get the entire car if using Soob electronics and even
then I would try to use an engine that was sold in both Japan and your
home country so that new parts are available locally and also used
replacement engines from the Japan importers are also available. For
example the 2.0 has only been sold locally for the last couple of years
and the 2.2 was not sold in Japan last time I checked due to taxes on
greater than 2 liters displacement.

As far as cams go, there have been problems develop on some engines as
folks try to "improve" the cams and valve trains so I agree that even on

a 2.2 it might be wise to tread cautiously. A cam grind does change
valve train geometry of course. More power does not usually equate to
more reliability and neither do most other engine mods...

So remember guys, next time you have an accident - help us out and aim
for the back of a Soob ;)

Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

If the cams didn't work out, I would think replacements should still be
fairly easy to track down -- easy, cheap parts is (in theory) part of

the

Soob appeal. Thanks for the weight estimate too.
-Ben

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Or if it's a silver Impressa.

At 06:10 PM 10/22/2004 -0400, you wrote:

But if the Soob is a green outback and has a COPA sticker on the back
window - brake hard.............It's me!

Neil Hardie

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Ken
Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 5:11 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Subaru power, was Firewall Location

Actually I have found Soob parts for the EJ engines quite pricey by
automotive standards with few aftermarket engine parts available last
time I checked. They are also difficult to find in the wreckers since
few were sold initially and the vehicles last well if not crashed. I
suspect that the demand from fellow aviators is not helping the
situation. If crashed the cam sprockets are often damaged. If possible
I'd recommend you get the entire car if using Soob electronics and even
then I would try to use an engine that was sold in both Japan and your
home country so that new parts are available locally and also used
replacement engines from the Japan importers are also available. For
example the 2.0 has only been sold locally for the last couple of years
and the 2.2 was not sold in Japan last time I checked due to taxes on
greater than 2 liters displacement.

As far as cams go, there have been problems develop on some engines as
folks try to "improve" the cams and valve trains so I agree that even on

a 2.2 it might be wise to tread cautiously. A cam grind does change
valve train geometry of course. More power does not usually equate to
more reliability and neither do most other engine mods...

So remember guys, next time you have an accident - help us out and aim
for the back of a Soob ;)

Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

If the cams didn't work out, I would think replacements should still be
fairly easy to track down -- easy, cheap parts is (in theory) part of
the
Soob appeal. Thanks for the weight estimate too.
-Ben

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Drew

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Drew Dalgleish · Post by **Drew Dalgleish** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

At 09:27 AM 10/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:

Joel,
Curious about a couple things:
1. Do you have an approximate number for the weight of your RFI redrive?
2. Did you get any indication from Don Parham that the cam regrind was a bad
idea, or not tried by many, or other problems? I ask because there are a
smattering of early glowing reports about the improvements from the Delta
cam, but I've not heard of any flying Soobs that have it. I don't know
whether Crossflow uses it but they sure do report some big HP numbers (180hp
normal aspiration from a 2.0) that must come from more than port polishing.
-Ben/ 496R

Does crossflow own a dyno? 200hp from 2.0l sounds more like wishful
thinking to me than actual numbers
Drew

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

I had a tenant that had a 2003 WRX 2.0L turbo... 227hp was the stock factory
rating. He ran it off the road at 140+ mph and walked away from it. Found
out after the fact that they auctioned the wreck off for $2000, and the
engine was perfect... only about 5000 miles.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Subaru power, was Firewall Location

At 09:27 AM 10/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:
Joel,
Curious about a couple things:
1. Do you have an approximate number for the weight of your RFI redrive?
2. Did you get any indication from Don Parham that the cam regrind was a
bad
idea, or not tried by many, or other problems? I ask because there are a
smattering of early glowing reports about the improvements from the Delta
cam, but I've not heard of any flying Soobs that have it. I don't know
whether Crossflow uses it but they sure do report some big HP numbers
(180hp
normal aspiration from a 2.0) that must come from more than port
polishing.
-Ben/ 496R

Does crossflow own a dyno? 200hp from 2.0l sounds more like wishful
thinking to me than actual numbers
Drew

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:35 am

See what I mean? Soob owners like them too much and just don't have a
co-operative attitude... ;)
Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

Or if it's a silver Impressa.

At 06:10 PM 10/22/2004 -0400, you wrote:

But if the Soob is a green outback and has a COPA sticker on the back
window - brake hard.............It's me!

Neil Hardie

snip

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Ken · Post by **Ken** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:35 am

Haven't looked at their stuff for a few years after I saw how "creative"
their numbers were regarding power and fuel burn. Face to face
discussion did not convince me that their numbers were believable. They
were spinning that engine in excess of 6000 rpm last I looked though and
they did have obvious tuning and racing experience. No they did not have
a dyno, at least as of a few years ago. I consider dyno numbers to be of
little value unless from an independent reputable outfit as there are a
lot of variables that can be "optimised". They also had
an efi system that only they could adjust. Of course their are two sides
to that philosophy but it can be pricey to bring a factory rep to your
location.

Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 09:27 AM 10/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:

Joel,
Curious about a couple things:
1. Do you have an approximate number for the weight of your RFI redrive?
2. Did you get any indication from Don Parham that the cam regrind

was a bad

idea, or not tried by many, or other problems? I ask because there

are a

smattering of early glowing reports about the improvements from the

Delta

cam, but I've not heard of any flying Soobs that have it. I don't know
whether Crossflow uses it but they sure do report some big HP numbers

(180hp

normal aspiration from a 2.0) that must come from more than port

polishing.

-Ben/ 496R

Does crossflow own a dyno? 200hp from 2.0l sounds more like wishful
thinking to me than actual numbers
Drew

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Rick Harper · Post by **Rick Harper** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:35 am

G'day Guys :

We have a sport aircraft member here in Australia who has just
fitted the WRX 2.0 Ltr Turbo engine to his Mustang 2 ..... he did the
whole installation himself including a full MOTEC race engine ignition
/ management system with "limp home" redundancy . if any of you are
considering doing the Subaru reduction drive thing - you'd be crazy not
to call him !

Gary is a pretty cluey guy .... to if you'd like to contact him here is
his e-mail address gnewnham@ozemail.com.au

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Davis
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 2:59 AM
Subject: Re: Subaru power, was Firewall Location

I had a tenant that had a 2003 WRX 2.0L turbo... 227hp was the stock
factory
rating. He ran it off the road at 140+ mph and walked away from it.
Found
out after the fact that they auctioned the wreck off for $2000, and
the
engine was perfect... only about 5000 miles.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: Subaru power, was Firewall Location

At 09:27 AM 10/22/2004 -0800, you wrote:
Joel,
Curious about a couple things:
1. Do you have an approximate number for the weight of your RFI

redrive?

2. Did you get any indication from Don Parham that the cam regrind

was a

bad
idea, or not tried by many, or other problems? I ask because there

are a

smattering of early glowing reports about the improvements from the

Delta

cam, but I've not heard of any flying Soobs that have it. I don't

know

whether Crossflow uses it but they sure do report some big HP

numbers

(180hp
normal aspiration from a 2.0) that must come from more than port
polishing.
-Ben/ 496R

Does crossflow own a dyno? 200hp from 2.0l sounds more like wishful
thinking to me than actual numbers
Drew

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