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Firewall Location

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brad

Firewall Location

Post by brad » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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Joel Jacobs

Firewall Location

Post by Joel Jacobs » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

I'm putting a Subaru 2.2L in mine and it's about the same weight as an
O-320. I didn't cut mine back. I upgraded my lower front tapered corner
wraps to .032. Murphy sells them as FUS-452 I think, they're the ones used
on the Elite. I used .025 FUS-70 corner wraps up top. You're kit probably
has FUS-10 .020 corner wraps - I wouldn't use those. I will be using a
lightweight warp drive prop. I'm using a heavier steel tailspring and a
Scott 3200 tail wheel for some extra weight aft. If I have to I'll install
the battery aft, add a toolbox aft or add lead in the tail.
I chose not to cut it back because you loose panel space, radio clearance,
the windshield hangs past the firewall and I might want to put a lighter
engine on someday. Not to mention the extra work...
Joel


----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location

I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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Neil Hardie

Firewall Location

Post by Neil Hardie » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Hi Joel, this is not an answer but a question!
Which Subaru conversion are you using and how much power are you getting
from the 2.2? I am a long way from doing anything yet but have had a
look at the Crossflow conversion done just up the road from here in
Shelburne. I would like to know more about your reasons for choosing the
Soob engine when you have a spare moment or two, no rush I am probably
years away from changing my engine!

Thanks

Neil Hardie
Phone:416-524-7696
Fax:416-996-2567
Email: nhardie@sympatico.ca





-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Joel Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 5:07 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall Location


I'm putting a Subaru 2.2L in mine and it's about the same weight as an
O-320. I didn't cut mine back. I upgraded my lower front tapered
corner wraps to .032. Murphy sells them as FUS-452 I think, they're
the ones used on the Elite. I used .025 FUS-70 corner wraps up top.
You're kit probably has FUS-10 .020 corner wraps - I wouldn't use those.
I will be using a lightweight warp drive prop. I'm using a heavier
steel tailspring and a Scott 3200 tail wheel for some extra weight aft.
If I have to I'll install the battery aft, add a toolbox aft or add lead
in the tail. I chose not to cut it back because you loose panel space,
radio clearance, the windshield hangs past the firewall and I might want
to put a lighter engine on someday. Not to mention the extra work...
Joel


----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location

I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall. I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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Angus McKenzie

Firewall Location

Post by Angus McKenzie » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Hi Brad
My vote is to leave it uncut.........Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location

I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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WALTER KLATT

Firewall Location

Post by WALTER KLATT » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Brad, you'll probably get more people here supporting leaving the firewall as is for the reasons mentioned below and maybe others. So, thought you might also like to hear from someone that likes it cut back 3 inches as I did with mine.

The Rebel is definitely nose heavy with the bigger engines, so anything that helps counteract that is a good thing. It is more difficult to land as a taildragger with a forward c of g. Again the "real" pilots might disagree, but I certainly had my challenges with it. I noticed a big difference when I put in a 40 pound weight in the back during my early taildragger training days. Once on floats or amphibs, as mine is now, it doesn't seem to matter.

It isn't a lot of work if done during construction, and I would include all the heavier corner wraps as described below as well. I also kept my battery up front ahead of the firewall, which is nice if you can get away with it. I still carry a full survival kit stuffed into the very back of the tail cone. And my ELT is back there, too.

You said you plan to install an 0320. Not sure if you plan to fly on amphibs, or where you live. But if I were doing it again now, I would be going for the 0360. And if money were no object, would even consider that new turbo XP-360 that will be available soon. That's because I am an alpine lake junky, and maybe you're not. I have found that the 0320 Rebel is a great floatplane below 3000 feet, but at 5000 density altitude, it starts to suck, especially on glassy water, and no pun intended.

I know you can go with stol leading edges, etc., but until I'm side by side with one up in one of these lakes, I'll opt for more hp with the same weight.

So those are my thoughts. The Rebel is a great plane either way. Good luck with your decision.

Walter


----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Jacobs <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 2:06 pm
Subject: Re: Firewall Location
I'm putting a Subaru 2.2L in mine and it's about the same weight
as an
O-320. I didn't cut mine back. I upgraded my lower front tapered
cornerwraps to .032. Murphy sells them as FUS-452 I think,
they're the ones used
on the Elite. I used .025 FUS-70 corner wraps up top. You're kit
probablyhas FUS-10 .020 corner wraps - I wouldn't use those. I
will be using a
lightweight warp drive prop. I'm using a heavier steel tailspring
and a
Scott 3200 tail wheel for some extra weight aft. If I have to
I'll install
the battery aft, add a toolbox aft or add lead in the tail.
I chose not to cut it back because you loose panel space, radio
clearance,the windshield hangs past the firewall and I might want
to put a lighter
engine on someday. Not to mention the extra work...
Joel


----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location

I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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username "rebel" password "builder"
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Wayne G. O'Shea

Firewall Location

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Were's that "trip report" Angus???

DITTO on the firewall !!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Angus McKenzie" <angus@lweb.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 6:26 PM
Subject: Re: Firewall Location

Hi Brad
My vote is to leave it uncut.........Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location

I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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username "rebel" password "builder"
Subscription services located at:
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Drew Dalgleish

Firewall Location

Post by Drew Dalgleish » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

I left mine uncut 0-290 same weight as an 0-320 and am generally pleased
with the results. It's a little tough to get the tail down to a 3 point
attitude when loaded lightly but just a touch of ppower in the flair takes
care of that. My best landings are when it's just me in the plane with my
100lb. labrador retreiver in the back. Something else to consider if you
cut back the firewall you'll be sitting 3" farther back under the wing with
the reduced visibility from that.
Drew





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Robert and Olga Johnson

Firewall Location

Post by Robert and Olga Johnson » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Hi Brad. I agree and built my Rebel without moving the firewall back (O-320)
and never regretted it. Those that say there is a nose heavy tendency must
also put the battery up front. Mine was in the back and weight and balance
was right on. Interesting to read that some who cut the firewall back also
mounted the battery on the firewall, so what was gained here ? A lot of
extra work to have a forward mounted smaller battery-??? My suggestion -
leave it in the original location as it is easy to compensate for, and you
will want all the panel space you can get later on. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location

I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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username "rebel" password "builder"
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Legeorgen

Firewall Location

Post by Legeorgen » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Hi agree with Walter on everything he said except I would leave Firewall and
put your battery just ahead of the elevator pulleys in the tail cone and your
c of g will work out just right.

Bruce G




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Walter Klatt

Firewall Location

Post by Walter Klatt » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

And I agree with Bruce on moving the battery back, too, even
after cutting back the firewall. I didn't with mine, only because
at the time, I didn't know that it would still be nose heavy. If
I did it now, the battery would be way in the back on the side
shelf out of the way.

Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:56 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall Location


Hi agree with Walter on everything he said except I
would leave Firewall and
put your battery just ahead of the elevator pulleys in
the tail cone and your
c of g will work out just right.

Bruce G




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Ken

Firewall Location

Post by Ken » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Well he did gain a slightly lower moment of inertia which should make it
slightly harder to groundloop. And a slightly stronger airframe in that
area. Is it significant - perhaps not but MAM does recommend it. There
are a number of comments in the archives about needing increased up
elevator and ballast...

It doesn't reduce instrument space behind the panel much as the panel
also gets pulled back about 2". Yes you lose a couple of inches off
each angled side of the panel but the valuable center panel stays the
same size. A battery on the firewall with #4 cable also saves a couple
of pounds of #2 cable going to a tail mounted battery.

The biggest thing may well be whether it reduces visibility much. I do
know it adds a bit of work, extra head scratching, and a few dollars for
new control sticks ;)

Ken

Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:
Hi Brad. I agree and built my Rebel without moving the firewall back (O-320)
and never regretted it. Those that say there is a nose heavy tendency must
also put the battery up front. Mine was in the back and weight and balance
was right on. Interesting to read that some who cut the firewall back also
mounted the battery on the firewall, so what was gained here ? A lot of
extra work to have a forward mounted smaller battery-??? My suggestion -
leave it in the original location as it is easy to compensate for, and you
will want all the panel space you can get later on. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location



I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195






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Wayne G. O'Shea

Firewall Location

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

It does make most radios un-installable for a flush installation though. The
Bendix/king KLX-135 needs 12 1/2" or so and VAL radios need almost 13" from
the face of panel to the firewall and moving the firewall and adjusting the
panel per MAM's instructions doesn't leave enough room.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken" <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: Firewall Location

Well he did gain a slightly lower moment of inertia which should make it
slightly harder to groundloop. And a slightly stronger airframe in that
area. Is it significant - perhaps not but MAM does recommend it. There
are a number of comments in the archives about needing increased up
elevator and ballast...

It doesn't reduce instrument space behind the panel much as the panel
also gets pulled back about 2". Yes you lose a couple of inches off
each angled side of the panel but the valuable center panel stays the
same size. A battery on the firewall with #4 cable also saves a couple
of pounds of #2 cable going to a tail mounted battery.

The biggest thing may well be whether it reduces visibility much. I do
know it adds a bit of work, extra head scratching, and a few dollars for
new control sticks ;)

Ken

Robert and Olga Johnson wrote:
Hi Brad. I agree and built my Rebel without moving the firewall back
(O-320)
and never regretted it. Those that say there is a nose heavy tendency
must
also put the battery up front. Mine was in the back and weight and
balance
was right on. Interesting to read that some who cut the firewall back
also
mounted the battery on the firewall, so what was gained here ? A lot of
extra work to have a forward mounted smaller battery-??? My suggestion -
leave it in the original location as it is easy to compensate for, and
you
will want all the panel space you can get later on. Bob J
----- Original Message -----
From: <brad@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Firewall Location



I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195






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username "rebel" password "builder"
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-----------------------------------------------------





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brad

Firewall Location

Post by brad » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Thanks for all the input. There is definatly two sides to this story. I'll
let you know what I decide.

I'm located in Saskatchewan. Amphibs are not in the plans but with too much
winter here Skis will certainly be added. And perhaps straight floats in the
future.

Brad, R195





On 10/20/2004 2:26 PM, WALTER.KLATT@SHAW.CA wrote to REBEL-BUILDERS:

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-> for rebel-builders@dcsol.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:30:42 -0800
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EHLO=pd4mo1so.prod.shaw.ca
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-> id 132871343; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:30:39 -0800
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-> 20 Oct 2004 16:26:20 -0600 (MDT)
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-> rebel-builders@dcsol.com; Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:26:20 -0600 (MDT)
-> Received: from [10.0.144.81] by pd2ims2.prod.shaw.ca (mshttpd); Wed,
-> 20 Oct 2004 15:26:20 -0700
-> Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:26:20 -0700
-> From: WALTER KLATT <Walter.Klatt@shaw.ca>
-> Subject: Re: Firewall Location
-> To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
-> Message-id: <44328f4427b4.4427b444328f@shaw.ca>
-> X-Orig-MIME-version: 1.0
-> X-Mailer: iPlanet Messenger Express 5.2 HotFix 1.18 (built Jul 28 2003)
-> X-Orig-Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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-> X-Accept-Language: en
-> Priority: normal
-> X-Antivirus-Remover: Message filtered with wsAV v2.0.0 Build 001
->
-> Brad, you'll probably get more people here supporting leaving the firewall
as is for the reasons mentioned below and maybe others. So, thought you might
also like to hear from someone that likes it cut back 3 inches as I did with
mine.
->
-> The Rebel is definitely nose heavy with the bigger engines, so anything
that helps counteract that is a good thing. It is more difficult to land as a
taildragger with a forward c of g. Again the "real" pilots might disagree,
but I certainly had my challenges with it. I noticed a big difference when I
put in a 40 pound weight in the back during my early taildragger training
days. Once on floats or amphibs, as mine is now, it doesn't seem to matter.
->
-> It isn't a lot of work if done during construction, and I would include
all the heavier corner wraps as described below as well. I also kept my
battery up front ahead of the firewall, which is nice if you can get away
with it. I still carry a full survival kit stuffed into the very back of the
tail cone. And my ELT is back there, too.
->
-> You said you plan to install an 0320. Not sure if you plan to fly on
amphibs, or where you live. But if I were doing it again now, I would be
going for the 0360. And if money were no object, would even consider that new
turbo XP-360 that will be available soon. That's because I am an alpine lake
junky, and maybe you're not. I have found that the 0320 Rebel is a great
floatplane below 3000 feet, but at 5000 density altitude, it starts to suck,
especially on glassy water, and no pun intended.
->
-> I know you can go with stol leading edges, etc., but until I'm side by
side with one up in one of these lakes, I'll opt for more hp with the same
weight.
->
-> So those are my thoughts. The Rebel is a great plane either way. Good luck
with your decision.
->
-> Walter
->
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: Joel Jacobs <jj@sdf.lonestar.org>
-> Date: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 2:06 pm
-> Subject: Re: Firewall Location
->
-> > I'm putting a Subaru 2.2L in mine and it's about the same weight
-> > as an
-> > O-320. I didn't cut mine back. I upgraded my lower front tapered
-> > cornerwraps to .032. Murphy sells them as FUS-452 I think,
-> > they're the ones used
-> > on the Elite. I used .025 FUS-70 corner wraps up top. You're kit
-> > probablyhas FUS-10 .020 corner wraps - I wouldn't use those. I
-> > will be using a
-> > lightweight warp drive prop. I'm using a heavier steel tailspring
-> > and a
-> > Scott 3200 tail wheel for some extra weight aft. If I have to
-> > I'll install
-> > the battery aft, add a toolbox aft or add lead in the tail.
-> > I chose not to cut it back because you loose panel space, radio
-> > clearance,the windshield hangs past the firewall and I might want
-> > to put a lighter
-> > engine on someday. Not to mention the extra work...
-> > Joel
-> >
-> >
-> > ----- Original Message -----
-> > From: <brad@dcsol.com>
-> > To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
-> > Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 4:39 PM
-> > Subject: Firewall Location
-> >
-> >
-> > > I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
-> > > My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
-> > > back the firewall.
-> > > I would appreciate any input one way or the other.
-> > >
-> > > Thanks,
-> > >
-> > > Brad Hewlett, R195
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
-> > >
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Joel Jacobs

Firewall Location

Post by Joel Jacobs » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

Hi Neil,
I did the conversion myself. I built the redrive from RFI plans - a few
mods. Should be good for about 135hp. Here''s a picture:
http://ocer.dyndns.org/gallery/view_pho ... d=engine23
I hear there's a set of cams I coukd get that would get it up to 160hp
but I think I'll leave it stock for a while and see if I really need to
burn that much gas...
Joel


Neil Hardie wrote:
Hi Joel, this is not an answer but a question!
Which Subaru conversion are you using and how much power are you getting
from the 2.2? I am a long way from doing anything yet but have had a
look at the Crossflow conversion done just up the road from here in
Shelburne. I would like to know more about your reasons for choosing the
Soob engine when you have a spare moment or two, no rush I am probably
years away from changing my engine!

Thanks

Neil Hardie
Phone:416-524-7696
Fax:416-996-2567
Email: nhardie@sympatico.ca





-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
Joel Jacobs
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 5:07 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Firewall Location


I'm putting a Subaru 2.2L in mine and it's about the same weight as an
O-320. I didn't cut mine back. I upgraded my lower front tapered
corner wraps to .032. Murphy sells them as FUS-452 I think, they're
the ones used on the Elite. I used .025 FUS-70 corner wraps up top.
You're kit probably has FUS-10 .020 corner wraps - I wouldn't use those.
I will be using a lightweight warp drive prop. I'm using a heavier
steel tailspring and a Scott 3200 tail wheel for some extra weight aft.
If I have to I'll install the battery aft, add a toolbox aft or add lead
in the tail. I chose not to cut it back because you loose panel space,
radio clearance, the windshield hangs past the firewall and I might want
to put a lighter engine on someday. Not to mention the extra work...
Joel



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Rick Harper

Firewall Location

Post by Rick Harper » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:34 am

G'day Brad

if you keep your 0 - 320 light ..... light weight starter , light
weight alternator ( B & C have a great unit which mounts on the vacuum
pump pad and is very light ) and a wooden propeller - you will shave
a good 30 to 40lb. off your engine ! - so you shouldn't need to shorten
the firewall
(at worst , five to 10kg of lead shot in the tail will offset a whole
bunch of weight on the nose !) - and the Rebel won't even notice it !!!

Rick and Wendy Harper

541 R





----- Original Message -----
From: brad@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:39 AM
Subject: Firewall Location


I am about to start forward of the tail on my Rebel.
My plan is to install an O-320. My dilemma is weather or not to cut
back the firewall.
I would appreciate any input one way or the other.

Thanks,

Brad Hewlett, R195





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