Sight gauges

[Drew Dalgleish]

If anyone is interested in a capacitive fuel gauge there's a set of plans
here. also lots of other neat stuff to build for your plane.

http://www.rst-engr.com/kitplanes/
Drew Dalgleish




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[Rick Harper]

G'day from OZ Ken !

We used 3/8" line ... (better to see the level with) ... BUT to stop the
level moving around too quickly, place a plug in the BOTTOM outlet of the
tank with a 1/16th inch hole (or less) ONLY TOWARDS THE SIGHT TUBE ....
NOT towards the feed line to the engine ... this will dampen the readout in
rough air !

Hope this helps

Rick & Wendy Harper
REBEL 541R

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
klehman@albedo.net
Sent: Monday, 17 November 2003 4:53 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: sight gauges

Hi

Are 1/4" ID. sight gauges as per the manual adequate for a Rebel? I keep
thinking that most of the ones I've seen looked larger. I'm trying to
get a hold of some pricey teflon tubing, so it would be good to get the
size correct :)

thanks
Ken



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[Jesse Jenks]

I am just wondering how safe these sight gauges are. I really don't like the
idea of having plastic tubing in the cockpit, full of fuel, just waiting to
give you a high-octane shower. Yes I know lots of planes use this system,
but It has always made me nervous. Has anyone tried Cessna style gauges in
the Rebel? Those things are pretty useless, but the only time you should
believe a fuel gauge is when it reads empty anyway. Am I just paranoid?

From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: sight gauges
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:26:16 -0500

Hi Gilles !

As far as I know, the Elite manual still calls for
sight guages. There's no problem with these - I've flown
both factory demonstrators, and they had sight guages....

They work best if they are angled to the rear, but
the straight vertical tube will work ok, too, as long as
you are not trying to run it down to the last drop ! ;-)

Be sure to use separate outlets in the tank for
the guages, don't tee into the outlet. It might help to
use automotive windshield washer tube barbed connectors
as inserts to restrict flow at the bottom, to reduce
errors from sloshing. Also, a small valve, like those
used on the Renegade, at the bottom, will allow for
peace of mind, and easy sight tube changes, should the
plastic be discoloured by bad fuel, or, worse yet,
cracked ! (yes - it happens !).

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------
At 04:23 PM 3/6/04 -0400, you wrote:

who knows?

is it possible to use only sight (steam) gauges on the gas tanks for the
Elite.. Could they be seen from the pilot seat.

Gilles

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Gilles !

As far as I know, the Elite manual still calls for
sight guages. There's no problem with these - I've flown
both factory demonstrators, and they had sight guages....

They work best if they are angled to the rear, but
the straight vertical tube will work ok, too, as long as
you are not trying to run it down to the last drop ! ;-)

Be sure to use separate outlets in the tank for
the guages, don't tee into the outlet. It might help to
use automotive windshield washer tube barbed connectors
as inserts to restrict flow at the bottom, to reduce
errors from sloshing. Also, a small valve, like those
used on the Renegade, at the bottom, will allow for
peace of mind, and easy sight tube changes, should the
plastic be discoloured by bad fuel, or, worse yet,
cracked ! (yes - it happens !).

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------
At 04:23 PM 3/6/04 -0400, you wrote:

who knows?

is it possible to use only sight (steam) gauges on the gas tanks for the
Elite.. Could they be seen from the pilot seat.

Gilles

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[Gilles St-Pierre]

who knows?

is it possible to use only sight (steam) gauges on the gas tanks for the
Elite.. Could they be seen from the pilot seat.

Gilles

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 01:59 PM 3/6/2004 -0800, you wrote:

I am just wondering how safe these sight gauges are. I really don't like the
idea of having plastic tubing in the cockpit, full of fuel, just waiting to
give you a high-octane shower. Yes I know lots of planes use this system,
but It has always made me nervous. Has anyone tried Cessna style gauges in
the Rebel? Those things are pretty useless, but the only time you should
believe a fuel gauge is when it reads empty anyway. Am I just paranoid?

There's some rebels with fuel guages it can be done without too much
trouble. I have the sight guages partly because I'm cheap but also to keep
the plane as light and simple as possible. I give each sight tube a pinch
and a wiggle as part of my pre-flight to make sure that it's secure and
hasn't gone hard or mushy. I think the chances of a shower are pretty small
just flying along. If you happen to crash though there's a few more points
for a leak to start.
Drew




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[Ron Freiberger]

Someone made a comment about the sight tubes cracking... that's because they
used Tygon tubing. It's good looking stuff, but gasoline removes the
plasticizer. It fails disastrously.

Ron Freiberger
mailto: rfreiberger@swfla.rr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Jesse
Jenks
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:59 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: sight gauges

I am just wondering how safe these sight gauges are. I really don't like the
idea of having plastic tubing in the cockpit, full of fuel, just waiting to
give you a high-octane shower. Yes I know lots of planes use this system,
but It has always made me nervous. Has anyone tried Cessna style gauges in
the Rebel? Those things are pretty useless, but the only time you should
believe a fuel gauge is when it reads empty anyway. Am I just paranoid?

From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: sight gauges
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:26:16 -0500

Hi Gilles !

As far as I know, the Elite manual still calls for
sight guages. There's no problem with these - I've flown
both factory demonstrators, and they had sight guages....

They work best if they are angled to the rear, but
the straight vertical tube will work ok, too, as long as
you are not trying to run it down to the last drop ! ;-)

Be sure to use separate outlets in the tank for
the guages, don't tee into the outlet. It might help to
use automotive windshield washer tube barbed connectors
as inserts to restrict flow at the bottom, to reduce
errors from sloshing. Also, a small valve, like those
used on the Renegade, at the bottom, will allow for
peace of mind, and easy sight tube changes, should the
plastic be discoloured by bad fuel, or, worse yet,
cracked ! (yes - it happens !).

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------
At 04:23 PM 3/6/04 -0400, you wrote:

who knows?

is it possible to use only sight (steam) gauges on the gas tanks for the
Elite.. Could they be seen from the pilot seat.

Gilles

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Jesse !

Yes & yes ! You <are> being paranoid, AND you could use
Cessna-style guages, or capacitance guages, or ....
but you would add weight & complexity, and lose simplicity & reliability.

Piper Super Cubs have been flying with sight guages for over
50 years now, and you don't hear about problems with them ! And ..
theirs are GLASS !!!! At least the Rebel uses flexible tubing.

I've flown Rebels with fuel line sight guages since 1990,
and never had a problem. I <DID> have to replace the tubing several
times because of bad gas, but not in the last 5 years .... Maybe
FBO's are a bit more careful now, since we flew from coast to coast
last summer, and refueled at LOTS of different places, without difficulty
- well, except for some water & a few dead bees at one point, but that
drained out of the gascolator. At least all the gas was good. ;-)

As I suggested, add a fuel valve from a Renegade (about 1/8" line)
at the bottom of the guage tube, if you are worried. If there's any
problem just flip the valve to stop fuel flow. This will also make
it easier to change the tubing, because then you won't have to drain
the tank first !

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On Saturday 06 March 2004 04:59 pm, you wrote:

I am just wondering how safe these sight gauges are. I really don't like

the

idea of having plastic tubing in the cockpit, full of fuel, just waiting to
give you a high-octane shower. Yes I know lots of planes use this system,
but It has always made me nervous. Has anyone tried Cessna style gauges in
the Rebel? Those things are pretty useless, but the only time you should
believe a fuel gauge is when it reads empty anyway. Am I just paranoid?


From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>

Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: sight gauges
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:26:16 -0500

Hi Gilles !

As far as I know, the Elite manual still calls for
sight guages. There's no problem with these - I've flown
both factory demonstrators, and they had sight guages....

They work best if they are angled to the rear, but
the straight vertical tube will work ok, too, as long as
you are not trying to run it down to the last drop ! ;-)

Be sure to use separate outlets in the tank for
the guages, don't tee into the outlet. It might help to
use automotive windshield washer tube barbed connectors
as inserts to restrict flow at the bottom, to reduce
errors from sloshing. Also, a small valve, like those
used on the Renegade, at the bottom, will allow for
peace of mind, and easy sight tube changes, should the
plastic be discoloured by bad fuel, or, worse yet,
cracked ! (yes - it happens !).

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------
At 04:23 PM 3/6/04 -0400, you wrote:

who knows?

is it possible to use only sight (steam) gauges on the gas tanks for the
Elite.. Could they be seen from the pilot seat.

Gilles

_________________________________________________________________
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[klehman]

FWIW I pursued an earlier suggestion to use teflon sight gauges.
I have some TEF teflon tube here that is almost completely transparent
and is supposed to be impervious to gas. The other two types of teflon
tube (PFA and PTFE) are too milky white for sight gauges. I was unable
to source a reasonable quantity in Canada but Norrell in New Jersey has
a web site and was pleased to sell a 25 foot roll at US$2.14 per foot
for 3/8 od x 5/16" id. Of course with shipping, customs, etc. it cost me
over cdn$5. per foot to actually get it in hand. The 3/8 od x 1/4 id
might be a better choice especially if you need any tight radius bends,
although it is twice the price at the factory door. I have a sample and
it is also quite transparent. I plan to use brass polytite fittings with
1/8 npt threads much like the parker fittings used on our brake lines.
This stuff is also suitable for a psru oil sight gauge as it is good
for in excess of 400 degrees F. Other plastic tubings lose almost all
their strength under 200 degrees.

MSC sells a no name TEF in 10 foot lengths but they advised me that that
particular product is not transparent enough for our purposes. Possibly
it is not manufactured from virgin stock??

My take on safety is that with the teflon I only have to be concerned
with a crash that does major damage and if that happens the fuel feed
line is going to be a much bigger leak than my sight gauge with a flow
restrictor. Nice thing about wing tanks though is that if a wing rips
off the fuel goes with it...

So far I've never seen an electric fuel gauge in a light airplane that
I'd trust.

Ken

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

At 01:59 PM 3/6/2004 -0800, you wrote:

I am just wondering how safe these sight gauges are. I really don't like the
idea of having plastic tubing in the cockpit, full of fuel, just waiting to
give you a high-octane shower. Yes I know lots of planes use this system,
but It has always made me nervous. Has anyone tried Cessna style gauges in
the Rebel? Those things are pretty useless, but the only time you should
believe a fuel gauge is when it reads empty anyway. Am I just paranoid?

There's some rebels with fuel guages it can be done without too much
trouble. I have the sight guages partly because I'm cheap but also to keep
the plane as light and simple as possible. I give each sight tube a pinch
and a wiggle as part of my pre-flight to make sure that it's secure and
hasn't gone hard or mushy. I think the chances of a shower are pretty small
just flying along. If you happen to crash though there's a few more points
for a leak to start.
Drew

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[Walter Klatt]

I use a sight gauge on mine, in conjunction with a fuel flow
monitor. Of course, I also still check my fuel on pre-flight with
a dip stick.

I prefer sight gauges to fuel gauges any day. I used to fly
different GA planes before, and never trusted any of their fuel
gauges and instead depended entirely on my pre-flight dip stick
measurement and a conservative gph usage. My sight gauges on my
Rebel don't lie.

However, it's my fuel flow monitor that I really appreciate, and
allows me to very accurately (one decimal place) monitor my fuel
usage. It tells me exactly what I have remaining, how much I have
used, duration, and my exact consumption at any given time for
accurate leaning. Then if I plug these numbers into my GPS on a
long flight, I get real time flight planning information as well.
This is especially helpful when you encounter changing winds, as
is common in the mountains and along the coast here.

So my advice would be to save your money on the fuel gauges and
use it to buy a fuel monitor instead.

Just my 2 cents.
Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of Bob
Patterson
Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 7:44 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: sight gauges



Hi Jesse !

Yes & yes ! You <are> being paranoid, AND you could use
Cessna-style guages, or capacitance guages, or ....
but you would add weight & complexity, and lose
simplicity & reliability.

Piper Super Cubs have been flying with sight guages for over
50 years now, and you don't hear about problems with
them ! And ..
theirs are GLASS !!!! At least the Rebel uses flexible tubing.

I've flown Rebels with fuel line sight guages since 1990,
and never had a problem. I <DID> have to replace the
tubing several
times because of bad gas, but not in the last 5 years
.... Maybe
FBO's are a bit more careful now, since we flew from
coast to coast
last summer, and refueled at LOTS of different places,
without difficulty
- well, except for some water & a few dead bees at one
point, but that
drained out of the gascolator. At least all the gas
was good. ;-)

As I suggested, add a fuel valve from a Renegade
(about 1/8" line)
at the bottom of the guage tube, if you are worried.
If there's any
problem just flip the valve to stop fuel flow. This
will also make
it easier to change the tubing, because then you won't
have to drain
the tank first !

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On Saturday 06 March 2004 04:59 pm, you wrote:

I am just wondering how safe these sight gauges are.

I really don't like
the

idea of having plastic tubing in the cockpit, full

of fuel, just waiting to

give you a high-octane shower. Yes I know lots of

planes use this system,

but It has always made me nervous. Has anyone tried

Cessna style gauges in

the Rebel? Those things are pretty useless, but the

only time you should

believe a fuel gauge is when it reads empty anyway.

Am I just paranoid?

From: Bob Patterson <apat@istar.ca>

Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: sight gauges
Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 16:26:16 -0500

Hi Gilles !

As far as I know, the Elite manual still calls for
sight guages. There's no problem with these - I've flown
both factory demonstrators, and they had sight guages....

They work best if they are angled to the rear, but
the straight vertical tube will work ok, too, as long as
you are not trying to run it down to the last drop ! ;-)

Be sure to use separate outlets in the tank for
the guages, don't tee into the outlet. It might help to
use automotive windshield washer tube barbed connectors
as inserts to restrict flow at the bottom, to reduce
errors from sloshing. Also, a small valve, like those
used on the Renegade, at the bottom, will allow for
peace of mind, and easy sight tube changes, should the
plastic be discoloured by bad fuel, or, worse yet,
cracked ! (yes - it happens !).

......bobp

-------------------------------orig.------------------------
At 04:23 PM 3/6/04 -0400, you wrote:

on the gas tanks for the

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[rebel]

Also with the tube site gauge if you put stripes behind As Jack Wiebe
did (see here http://wrayt.tripod.com/jwfuell.jpg )you can very easily
see where the fuel is as the stripes appear to change direction between
gas and air. ...Wray

Gilles St-Pierre wrote:

who knows?

is it possible to use only sight (steam) gauges on the gas tanks for

the Elite.. Could they be seen from the pilot seat.

Gilles

_______

--
Wray Thompson ...Rebel 306 ...home page http://wrayt.tripod.com/
My ICQ number is 29764664


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