wet wings......

[bransom]

Ken,
How do you make brushable proseal --- sorry if this is a dumb question.

Also FWIW, when shopping for proseal recently, I find that Vans has a
replacement product, and they sell it cheaper ($40/quart) than I've found
proseal from others. A friend told me that Vans changed to this stuff
several years back. Anyone else know of good or bad on this other product?
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/cat ... 27837-258-
9&browse=misc&product=proseal

I'm assuming good enf for Vans is certainly good enf for me.
-Ben Ransom


-> The bottom of the tank rarely leaks because you can goop that up good
-> before you put the tank top on. So I covered all joints and rivets with
-> an extra layer of brushable proseal. And before I assembled the tank, I
-> cut one oval access plate in the bottom of the tank . After the tank was
-> fully assembled I went in through that one access and applied the
-> brushable proseal to all the joints and rivets on the top of the tank. I
-> have not heard of anybody else doing this but it sure raised my
-> confidence that I won't have leaks after gas is in the tanks and my
-> wings are painted. There were no leaks when I did the pressure test.
-> Ken



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[Jean Poirier]

I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator. Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But.... many people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it is a wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to replace... but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R



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[Jones, Michael]

Jean

I am doing my right wing tank right now, its not hard, prefit every part for
the tank and assemble the whole thing to check fits, and write done the
steps you use to assemble, I got 3 beam balance to weigh out the proseal mix
which made it easy to get the right 10:1 mix, this is link to Canadian
company that sells triple beam scales where I got mine, worth the money to
get the mix right

http://www.canadianweigh.com/

as for using proseal, its not hard, just mix small batches, wear gloves and
don't get the stuff on you or your gloves, which can be done, just go slow,
its not as bad as I thought and to avoid any leaks just use lots,
everywhere, will post some pics showing how much I put on my inside tanks, I
figure better to much than to little, you want to be careful to wipe off
your rivet gun a lot to keep the proseal out of the insides

mike#007

-----Original Message-----
From: Jean Poirier [mailto:oxyport@globetrotter.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:16 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: wet wings......


I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a
pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator.
Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But.... many
people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it is a
wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the
ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to replace...
but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this
subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R



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[Mike Davis]

Proseal actually makes a "removable" sealant... I think it's pink. Chris
Gills in Anchorage used this on his SR2500, and I haven't heard him report
any leakage problems.

Mike

Jean Poirier wrote:

Hi Ken
Thanks for the answer (and to others builders to) . How do dou

seal/close

your access plate? The size of the plate? I like that solution!
Jean

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[Drew Dalgleish]

At 10:15 AM 2/26/2004 -0500, you wrote:

I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a

pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator.
Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But.... many

people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it is a
wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the
ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to replace...
but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this
subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R

Hi Jean
I was down in Windsor last summer looking at the rebel the EAA chapter
down there is building. They are using welded tanks and have had all kinds
of trouble getting them fitted. I think it's added a couple years to their
build time. The capacity is a lot less than the wet wing I can't remember
the number but it was getting close to half the size. A lot of weight was
added with extra peices needed to carry the load the ribs would have taken.
Plus if you don't have the metal tank well supported it can crack and leak
too. I'm sure Brian Lawson can add more He spent quite a bit of time
working on the project.
Drew




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[klehman]

Hi Jean
When I was there I had the same thoughts. My solution was slightly
unorthodox but it is in the archives. The leaks are often where the
stringers exit the tank at the top of the tank and I observed several
aircraft that had access plates cut into the tank to fix those leaks.
The bottom of the tank rarely leaks because you can goop that up good
before you put the tank top on. So I covered all joints and rivets with
an extra layer of brushable proseal. And before I assembled the tank, I
cut one oval access plate in the bottom of the tank . After the tank was
fully assembled I went in through that one access and applied the
brushable proseal to all the joints and rivets on the top of the tank. I
have not heard of anybody else doing this but it sure raised my
confidence that I won't have leaks after gas is in the tanks and my
wings are painted. There were no leaks when I did the pressure test.
Ken

Jean Poirier wrote:

I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator. Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But.... many people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it is a wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to replace... but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R

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[Jean Poirier]

Hi Ken
Thanks for the answer (and to others builders to) . How do dou seal/close
your access plate? The size of the plate? I like that solution!
Jean
----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: wet wings......

Hi Jean
When I was there I had the same thoughts. My solution was slightly
unorthodox but it is in the archives. The leaks are often where the
stringers exit the tank at the top of the tank and I observed several
aircraft that had access plates cut into the tank to fix those leaks.
The bottom of the tank rarely leaks because you can goop that up good
before you put the tank top on. So I covered all joints and rivets with
an extra layer of brushable proseal. And before I assembled the tank, I
cut one oval access plate in the bottom of the tank . After the tank was
fully assembled I went in through that one access and applied the
brushable proseal to all the joints and rivets on the top of the tank. I
have not heard of anybody else doing this but it sure raised my
confidence that I won't have leaks after gas is in the tanks and my
wings are painted. There were no leaks when I did the pressure test.
Ken

Jean Poirier wrote:

I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a

pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator.
Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But....

many people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it
is a wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the
ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to replace...
but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this
subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R

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[klehman]

Jean
There would be a better write up in the archives because I did it 4 or 5
years ago and my memory is not always great ;). I used a 4" x 8"
access plate (round 2" radius ends) with a doubler behind it so the
access plate is flush with the tank bottom skin. A flat access plate
with a doubler on the inside is very easy to rivet in and seal with
proseal. It looks like it belongs there instead of like a repair. I did
not rivet the fuel slosh baffles to the ribs until just before I sealed
the access cover, so that I could reach in to the entire tank from one
access hole. I considered using screws for the access panel but I
didn't think it could be removed without destroying it anyway, once the
proseal hardened. It took about 3 oz. or so of brushable proseal for
each wing.
Ken

Jean Poirier wrote:

Hi Ken
Thanks for the answer (and to others builders to) . How do dou seal/close
your access plate? The size of the plate? I like that solution!
Jean

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[David Stroud]

Sorry to come in so late on this, but could someone please say how you seal the stringer/rib
cutout area on a wet wing tank? Thanks.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 early construction

----- Original Message -----
From: <klehman@albedo.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: wet wings......

Jean
There would be a better write up in the archives because I did it 4 or 5
years ago and my memory is not always great ;). I used a 4" x 8"
access plate (round 2" radius ends) with a doubler behind it so the
access plate is flush with the tank bottom skin. A flat access plate
with a doubler on the inside is very easy to rivet in and seal with
proseal. It looks like it belongs there instead of like a repair. I did
not rivet the fuel slosh baffles to the ribs until just before I sealed
the access cover, so that I could reach in to the entire tank from one
access hole. I considered using screws for the access panel but I
didn't think it could be removed without destroying it anyway, once the
proseal hardened. It took about 3 oz. or so of brushable proseal for
each wing.
Ken

Jean Poirier wrote:

Hi Ken
Thanks for the answer (and to others builders to) . How do dou seal/close
your access plate? The size of the plate? I like that solution!
Jean

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[klehman]

Hi Ben

The only dumb questions are the ones that I wish I had asked... ;)

I purchased the brushable stuff. I believe the B grade is normal filet
or caulking type material. The A grade is brushable and I think C grade
is a mid viscosity material for feying surfaces. Locally the only
brushable grade I could get was the 3.5 oz semkits which was more
expensive than purchasing it in a can.

Some guys do mix MEK to thin it and say that it works but there seem to
be numerous warnings from the manufacturers not to do that. They also
say not to expose the cured stuff to MEK. I know that is just the
"manufacturer's opinion" but...

There are several manufacturers of equivalent products. As long as it
has the Mil Spec (8802 I think) it is the same stuff and I'd use the
cheapest source you can find. I put a fair bit of info on different
grades and specs of the stuff in the archives a few years ago. There are
a couple of different hardening compounds used and some may not be 100%
compatable with each other. THere are a couple of acceptable specs
though if you look up the archives or refer to one of the manufacturers
websites. I think the dichromate cured stuff has a different milspec
than 8802 but if memory serves, it is fine to use.

Ken

bransom@dcsol.com wrote:

Ken,
How do you make brushable proseal --- sorry if this is a dumb question.

Also FWIW, when shopping for proseal recently, I find that Vans has a
replacement product, and they sell it cheaper ($40/quart) than I've found
proseal from others. A friend told me that Vans changed to this stuff
several years back. Anyone else know of good or bad on this other product?
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/cat ... 27837-258-
9&browse=misc&product=proseal

I'm assuming good enf for Vans is certainly good enf for me.
-Ben Ransom

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[klehman]

Hi Dave

THe manual suggest making a bunch of aluminum sealing brackets. Lather
on the goop and then rivet a plate (or two) to the rib and skin to
squeeze it and hold it. I cut J shapes into the brackets to slide over
the stringers but apparently one does not want too tight a fit so that
things can move a bit without rupturing the proseal.

Ken

David Stroud wrote:

Sorry to come in so late on this, but could someone please say how you seal the stringer/rib
cutout area on a wet wing tank? Thanks.

Dave Stroud, Ottawa, Canada
Christavia C-FDWS
Fairchild 51 early construction

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[Brian Lawson]

Hey Jean and Drew,

Please be aware that I moved from Windsor last year, and so I have not
been involved with the Rebel building for nearly 10 months at this
time.

In my opinion, Drew is quite correct. The decision by the initial
Windsor EAA Chapter Rebel builders, quite a number of years back, was
to use tanks rather than wet-wings. The reasoning may have been very
well intentioned, and made at a time not tooooooo long after the
faults/failures of the polypropylene bladder tanks in the original
Rebel design as I understand it. But I truly doubt that the same
decision would be made again today if they were to build a second
plane.

The tanks have turned out to be a true pain-in-the-ass in my opinion.
And expensive. They have to be made out of the less available 5051
or is it 5052 weldable aluminum, and they ended up being made twice at
about $300 Canadian each tank I believe. No matter what they cost, it
was more than the cost of any amount and type of Pro-Seal I'd bet!!
And resulting in a smaller fuel load, and additional weight offsetting
any "gain". Mind you, as built it is still expected that the fuel
will hold out longer than most pilots bladders <VBG>.

First off, there has to be some careful planning of how to construct
the wing so that there is no loss of structural design. As the tank
dimensions required the "cut-out" or sectioning/removal of the longest
part of the second and third ribs, that ended up requiring two 1-1/4"
square tubes at both the bottom of the wing and the chord line of the
top to replace and re-join the cut-off ribs. Apparently the decision
was made early on (years before I appeared on the scene) to make the
tank insert from the bottom of the wing. That allowed the two upper
chord-formed 1-1/4" pieces to be riveted in permanently. The two for
the bottom are straight, but have to be bolted in after the tank is in
place, and they have a cut-out to allow the bottom J-channel to carry
through unbroken. Because the wing is not an actual "rectangular
box", due to the chord line, the tanks are not then "regular" either.
The rear spar is "flat" OK, and does not interfere, but the front
spar is not changed in any way, so that it presents as the "cup" of a
C-channel which means that there is an "under-cut" to contend with
along the forward edge of the tank for it to fit while inserting.
Sounds simple, but that gave the most trouble to me, as it caused the
tank to have to be "thinner' and tipped "just so" to allow the fuel
filler to clear the hole in the upper wing skin on insertion. Wayyyyy
too tight!! And then you have to figure some way to hold the tanks in
place once inserted. I actually dis-agreed with the current project
decision while I was there to try to "hold" the tanks UP against the
chord line. Lotsa friggin trouble with that, for no good reason, but
that is the way it's going at the last I saw. I felt they should just
be held down against a rubber pad onto the bottom pieces.

Anyway, then there are about 80 screws to hold each bottom skin on to
all this. Not really nice. And there is no "saving" anywhere with
the fuel connections and sight gauges either. No real plumbing
improvement at all that I can see. By the way, we did do a nice job
of adding a header tank behind the pilots seat that should work and
serve well. This was done at my insistence in case of fuel port
uncovering in a low-fuel descent situation.

All the above is advice given by some-one who never had to Pro-Seal
anything in his life though, so take it for what it is worth!! I
still don't understand why the "inspection port" that someone else
mentions on this thread isn't just flush mounted in the highest point
of the chord line on top the wing. It almost has end up to be higher
than the lowest point of the fuel filler, and won't ever see any real
"wetting" anyway, will it?

Good luck with which-ever way you go. From what I have seen, the
Rebel is an awesome machine, and should never be looked at like a fat
Cessna, which is what I believe happened in Windsor.

Take care. See ya Drew.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:54:48 -0500, you wrote:

At 10:15 AM 2/26/2004 -0500, you wrote:

I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a

pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator.
Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But....

many

people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it

is a

wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the
ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to

replace...

but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this
subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R

Hi Jean
I was down in Windsor last summer looking at the rebel the EAA chapter
down there is building. They are using welded tanks and have had all

kinds

of trouble getting them fitted. I think it's added a couple years to

their

build time. The capacity is a lot less than the wet wing I can't

remember

the number but it was getting close to half the size. A lot of weight

was

added with extra peices needed to carry the load the ribs would have

taken.

Plus if you don't have the metal tank well supported it can crack and

leak

too. I'm sure Brian Lawson can add more He spent quite a bit of time
working on the project.
Drew




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[Warren Montgomery]

Jean,

I'm building the SR and had build the wings to 2 x 40 gal with no
problems. With the GW upgrade I stripped the tank skins and completely
redid to 2 x 60 gal.
So that's 200 gal or about four rebels. It's not that bad, kinda like
going to the dentist (my apologies if any out there) not fun but once
done not so painful.
Go with the proseal and check the archives for tips. Scales, I quickly
learned to eyeball 10-1 and had no problems mixing small amounts. Cooler
temps are better as it gives you more time to work then heat up the shop
so it sets quickly.
Warren
SR 029
Duibai, UAE

Drew Dalgleish wrote:

But.... many people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it is a
wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the
ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to replace...
but two in each wing...

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[Jean Poirier]

Thank's to every one who answer about "wet wings". I am in the welding
business (Gas and welding products dist.) but the question is not a welding
one (at least for me!) but a structural one. With all the comments
received, I will go to the wet wings with the proseal.... So If I have
well understand, I should use standard proseal everywhere as in the manual,
and then brush the thinner one on all joint as "insurance cover".
Jean
Rebel 747R
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Lawson" <lawsonb@mnsi.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: wet wings......

Hey Jean and Drew,

Please be aware that I moved from Windsor last year, and so I have not
been involved with the Rebel building for nearly 10 months at this
time.

In my opinion, Drew is quite correct. The decision by the initial
Windsor EAA Chapter Rebel builders, quite a number of years back, was
to use tanks rather than wet-wings. The reasoning may have been very
well intentioned, and made at a time not tooooooo long after the
faults/failures of the polypropylene bladder tanks in the original
Rebel design as I understand it. But I truly doubt that the same
decision would be made again today if they were to build a second
plane.

The tanks have turned out to be a true pain-in-the-ass in my opinion.
And expensive. They have to be made out of the less available 5051
or is it 5052 weldable aluminum, and they ended up being made twice at
about $300 Canadian each tank I believe. No matter what they cost, it
was more than the cost of any amount and type of Pro-Seal I'd bet!!
And resulting in a smaller fuel load, and additional weight offsetting
any "gain". Mind you, as built it is still expected that the fuel
will hold out longer than most pilots bladders <VBG>.

First off, there has to be some careful planning of how to construct
the wing so that there is no loss of structural design. As the tank
dimensions required the "cut-out" or sectioning/removal of the longest
part of the second and third ribs, that ended up requiring two 1-1/4"
square tubes at both the bottom of the wing and the chord line of the
top to replace and re-join the cut-off ribs. Apparently the decision
was made early on (years before I appeared on the scene) to make the
tank insert from the bottom of the wing. That allowed the two upper
chord-formed 1-1/4" pieces to be riveted in permanently. The two for
the bottom are straight, but have to be bolted in after the tank is in
place, and they have a cut-out to allow the bottom J-channel to carry
through unbroken. Because the wing is not an actual "rectangular
box", due to the chord line, the tanks are not then "regular" either.
The rear spar is "flat" OK, and does not interfere, but the front
spar is not changed in any way, so that it presents as the "cup" of a
C-channel which means that there is an "under-cut" to contend with
along the forward edge of the tank for it to fit while inserting.
Sounds simple, but that gave the most trouble to me, as it caused the
tank to have to be "thinner' and tipped "just so" to allow the fuel
filler to clear the hole in the upper wing skin on insertion. Wayyyyy
too tight!! And then you have to figure some way to hold the tanks in
place once inserted. I actually dis-agreed with the current project
decision while I was there to try to "hold" the tanks UP against the
chord line. Lotsa friggin trouble with that, for no good reason, but
that is the way it's going at the last I saw. I felt they should just
be held down against a rubber pad onto the bottom pieces.

Anyway, then there are about 80 screws to hold each bottom skin on to
all this. Not really nice. And there is no "saving" anywhere with
the fuel connections and sight gauges either. No real plumbing
improvement at all that I can see. By the way, we did do a nice job
of adding a header tank behind the pilots seat that should work and
serve well. This was done at my insistence in case of fuel port
uncovering in a low-fuel descent situation.

All the above is advice given by some-one who never had to Pro-Seal
anything in his life though, so take it for what it is worth!! I
still don't understand why the "inspection port" that someone else
mentions on this thread isn't just flush mounted in the highest point
of the chord line on top the wing. It almost has end up to be higher
than the lowest point of the fuel filler, and won't ever see any real
"wetting" anyway, will it?

Good luck with which-ever way you go. From what I have seen, the
Rebel is an awesome machine, and should never be looked at like a fat
Cessna, which is what I believe happened in Windsor.

Take care. See ya Drew.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:54:48 -0500, you wrote:

At 10:15 AM 2/26/2004 -0500, you wrote:

I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a

pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator.
Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But....

many

people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it

is a

wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the
ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to

replace...

but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this
subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R

Hi Jean
I was down in Windsor last summer looking at the rebel the EAA chapter
down there is building. They are using welded tanks and have had all

kinds

of trouble getting them fitted. I think it's added a couple years to

their

build time. The capacity is a lot less than the wet wing I can't

remember

the number but it was getting close to half the size. A lot of weight

was

added with extra peices needed to carry the load the ribs would have

taken.

Plus if you don't have the metal tank well supported it can crack and

leak

too. I'm sure Brian Lawson can add more He spent quite a bit of time
working on the project.
Drew




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[klehman]

Hi Brian

The bottom of the tank never seems to leak because you have can add as
much proseal as you like before putting the top on. So an inspection
port on the bottom of the tank lets you see and get at the top of the
tank after the tank is closed. Most tank repair access holes that you
see on a Rebel are made in the bottom of the wing. Sealing an inspection
port is pretty easy no matter where you put it.

I agree with your conclusion that a welded tank has to be able to float
or move a bit so that wing flexing doesn't crack it. Another concern
with a welded tank is that sometimes fuel sloshing leads to repeated
weld cracking. (One of those vibration/harmonic related mysteries I
think) However if one had a structure that allowed easy tank removing
for repairs I'd still take the extra weight of the welded tank. I would
never consider a welded tank for a Rebel wing though. I've also learned
that making a welded fuel tank requires a LOT more design, forming, and
skill than welding up a small tank.

Ken

Brian Lawson wrote:

Hey Jean and Drew,

Please be aware that I moved from Windsor last year, and so I have not
been involved with the Rebel building for nearly 10 months at this
time.

In my opinion, Drew is quite correct. The decision by the initial
Windsor EAA Chapter Rebel builders, quite a number of years back, was
to use tanks rather than wet-wings. The reasoning may have been very
well intentioned, and made at a time not tooooooo long after the
faults/failures of the polypropylene bladder tanks in the original
Rebel design as I understand it. But I truly doubt that the same
decision would be made again today if they were to build a second
plane.

The tanks have turned out to be a true pain-in-the-ass in my opinion.
And expensive. They have to be made out of the less available 5051
or is it 5052 weldable aluminum, and they ended up being made twice at
about $300 Canadian each tank I believe. No matter what they cost, it
was more than the cost of any amount and type of Pro-Seal I'd bet!!
And resulting in a smaller fuel load, and additional weight offsetting
any "gain". Mind you, as built it is still expected that the fuel
will hold out longer than most pilots bladders <VBG>.

First off, there has to be some careful planning of how to construct
the wing so that there is no loss of structural design. As the tank
dimensions required the "cut-out" or sectioning/removal of the longest
part of the second and third ribs, that ended up requiring two 1-1/4"
square tubes at both the bottom of the wing and the chord line of the
top to replace and re-join the cut-off ribs. Apparently the decision
was made early on (years before I appeared on the scene) to make the
tank insert from the bottom of the wing. That allowed the two upper
chord-formed 1-1/4" pieces to be riveted in permanently. The two for
the bottom are straight, but have to be bolted in after the tank is in
place, and they have a cut-out to allow the bottom J-channel to carry
through unbroken. Because the wing is not an actual "rectangular
box", due to the chord line, the tanks are not then "regular" either.
The rear spar is "flat" OK, and does not interfere, but the front
spar is not changed in any way, so that it presents as the "cup" of a
C-channel which means that there is an "under-cut" to contend with
along the forward edge of the tank for it to fit while inserting.
Sounds simple, but that gave the most trouble to me, as it caused the
tank to have to be "thinner' and tipped "just so" to allow the fuel
filler to clear the hole in the upper wing skin on insertion. Wayyyyy
too tight!! And then you have to figure some way to hold the tanks in
place once inserted. I actually dis-agreed with the current project
decision while I was there to try to "hold" the tanks UP against the
chord line. Lotsa friggin trouble with that, for no good reason, but
that is the way it's going at the last I saw. I felt they should just
be held down against a rubber pad onto the bottom pieces.

Anyway, then there are about 80 screws to hold each bottom skin on to
all this. Not really nice. And there is no "saving" anywhere with
the fuel connections and sight gauges either. No real plumbing
improvement at all that I can see. By the way, we did do a nice job
of adding a header tank behind the pilots seat that should work and
serve well. This was done at my insistence in case of fuel port
uncovering in a low-fuel descent situation.

All the above is advice given by some-one who never had to Pro-Seal
anything in his life though, so take it for what it is worth!! I
still don't understand why the "inspection port" that someone else
mentions on this thread isn't just flush mounted in the highest point
of the chord line on top the wing. It almost has end up to be higher
than the lowest point of the fuel filler, and won't ever see any real
"wetting" anyway, will it?

Good luck with which-ever way you go. From what I have seen, the
Rebel is an awesome machine, and should never be looked at like a fat
Cessna, which is what I believe happened in Windsor.

Take care. See ya Drew.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
On Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:54:48 -0500, you wrote:

At 10:15 AM 2/26/2004 -0500, you wrote:

I am working on the left stab, I will do the fin this week-end, call a

pre-cover, than close evrything and make the trim on the elevator.
Yesterday night I have again look at the wings.....

I remember Bob have told me to not worry about wet wings. But....

many

people look to have trouble make them tight at the first time... or it

is a

wrong perception? I would prefer "standard" alum. welded tank but the
ribs/spar modification is a very important issue.... one rib to

replace...

but two in each wing... Probably that many of you are tired of this
subject but I would like to hear about it....

Thanks to every person s who will answer!

Jean Poirier
Rebel 747R

Hi Jean
I was down in Windsor last summer looking at the rebel the EAA chapter
down there is building. They are using welded tanks and have had all

kinds

of trouble getting them fitted. I think it's added a couple years to

their

build time. The capacity is a lot less than the wet wing I can't

remember

the number but it was getting close to half the size. A lot of weight

was

added with extra peices needed to carry the load the ribs would have

taken.

Plus if you don't have the metal tank well supported it can crack and

leak

too. I'm sure Brian Lawson can add more He spent quite a bit of time
working on the project.
Drew




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