How Long a Moose Stick?

[Rhodes]

Don
We cut about an inch off both ends of Ron's with the teak grips. It depends
on how your stick grip attaches - does it slide over it or have a bushing
that goes inside? We both got the new improved bellcrank overhead from MAM
also. Ron's still almost hits the panel and the doorpost.
Try this. Hold the stick as tight as you can and have your partner go out
and move the ailerons. About 2-3" of control slop measured at the trailing
edge? At cruise in Ron's the ailerons do not get full travel. I think
control slop is inherent in the Moose even with all attachments bushed
and/or tight.
We cut off the stick with a tubing cutter which should not nick your wires.
FWIW I raised the pivot points in the control column torque tube for more
aileron travel with less stick travel. Control stick forces will be heavier.
Steve Rhodes
Moose 173


----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 05:58
Subject: How Long a Moose Stick?

Hi Guys,

Heavy into the panel and fuselage wiring. It's time to plumb in our

Infinity

Stick Grips with their multi function control switches. The cable from the
grip running through the stick contains 18 conductors. About 3/8 inch dia.

My question is how long/high are the Moose flyers/builders making there
sticks? (OK now, let's keep our minds out of the gutter)

When we flew the prototype I believe it had the standard length stick that
came with the kit. Didn't have to move it much and the forces seems pretty
light. Randy and I would like the grips to be low enough so that our arm

can

"rest" on our leg/lap while holding the stick grip.

With the electrical cable running inside the stick it will be tricky

cutting

the stick down later. Even with a connector in the cable at the bottom of
the stick, making the stick removable, the connector would be too big to
pull through the stick tube in order to remove the grip.

Those of you who are flying or have flown the Super/Moose, are the stick
forces light enough to shorten the standard moose stick?


Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY

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[Al Paxhia]

Hi Don,
I cut both ends of the stick and also bent the stick back slightly. No
problem with stick force. The ailerons are so large that not much movement
is required. The next time I go to the hangar I can take a measurement. I
also had to change the overhead bellcrank to increase its throw. My FAA
inspector wanted more clearance between the grip and the panel.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 6:58 AM
Subject: How Long a Moose Stick?

Hi Guys,

Heavy into the panel and fuselage wiring. It's time to plumb in our

Infinity

Stick Grips with their multi function control switches. The cable from the
grip running through the stick contains 18 conductors. About 3/8 inch dia.

My question is how long/high are the Moose flyers/builders making there
sticks? (OK now, let's keep our minds out of the gutter)

When we flew the prototype I believe it had the standard length stick that
came with the kit. Didn't have to move it much and the forces seems pretty
light. Randy and I would like the grips to be low enough so that our arm

can

"rest" on our leg/lap while holding the stick grip.

With the electrical cable running inside the stick it will be tricky

cutting

the stick down later. Even with a connector in the cable at the bottom of
the stick, making the stick removable, the connector would be too big to
pull through the stick tube in order to remove the grip.

Those of you who are flying or have flown the Super/Moose, are the stick
forces light enough to shorten the standard moose stick?


Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY

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[Don Boardman]

Hi Guys,

Heavy into the panel and fuselage wiring. It's time to plumb in our Infinity
Stick Grips with their multi function control switches. The cable from the
grip running through the stick contains 18 conductors. About 3/8 inch dia.

My question is how long/high are the Moose flyers/builders making there
sticks? (OK now, let's keep our minds out of the gutter)

When we flew the prototype I believe it had the standard length stick that
came with the kit. Didn't have to move it much and the forces seems pretty
light. Randy and I would like the grips to be low enough so that our arm can
"rest" on our leg/lap while holding the stick grip.

With the electrical cable running inside the stick it will be tricky cutting
the stick down later. Even with a connector in the cable at the bottom of
the stick, making the stick removable, the connector would be too big to
pull through the stick tube in order to remove the grip.

Those of you who are flying or have flown the Super/Moose, are the stick
forces light enough to shorten the standard moose stick?


Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY




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[Al Paxhia]

Don,
When the stick is in the neutral position, my flying position the top of the
grip is 23 1/4" off the floor. For me very comfortable to fly, hand or
couple of fingers on grip, with my wrist on top of leg. Full aileron stop
to stop is 11" on the center of the stick, full elevator is 14". The grip is
teak type, can't recall exactly but the stick goes into the grip about 2
1/2". The way I did the fit was trial and error. The way I would do it next
time is not wire the grip until after the first flight. I pulled my wires
out at least three times.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

The next time I go to the hangar I can take a measurement. I
also had to change the overhead bellcrank to increase its throw.

Al,

I would be interested in the stick height you ended up with.

Thanks,
Don B.

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[Don Boardman]

The next time I go to the hangar I can take a measurement. I
also had to change the overhead bellcrank to increase its throw.

Al,

I would be interested in the stick height you ended up with.

Thanks,
Don B.




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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Don !

I think you're on the right track - having your arm rest on your leg
when holding the stick makes for very comfortable longer flights. Actually,
I often wasn't holding the stick at all for long periods, she's so stable. :-)

That said - be careful not to shorten too much. Most of us flew the
Super & Moose with a cushion (about 2" thick), on top of the 8" or so of
foam in the factory seats. It helps to see forward, and feels more
comfortable. You may want to include extra in your seats, if not using the
factory setup ... this puts you higher, and would change the length of the
stick. It is certainly better to have it a bit too high, rather than too
low, and a tube cutter will help with small trimming, even with a cable
inside.

When choosing your button layout, make sure it's difficult to push
the trim by accident - more than a few exciting moments on short final
when the trim was pushed instead of press-to-talk !! Also, it would be
a good idea to have a separate pull-type breaker in an easy-to-reach
spot on the left side panel, for the trim motor - if it ever runs away in
the Moose, there's NO way you could hold it with the stick !!!
(only had ONE good scare - but that's one too many !)

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.-------------------
On Monday 26 January 2004 09:58 am, you wrote:

Hi Guys,

Heavy into the panel and fuselage wiring. It's time to plumb in our Infinity
Stick Grips with their multi function control switches. The cable from the
grip running through the stick contains 18 conductors. About 3/8 inch dia.

My question is how long/high are the Moose flyers/builders making there
sticks? (OK now, let's keep our minds out of the gutter)

When we flew the prototype I believe it had the standard length stick that
came with the kit. Didn't have to move it much and the forces seems pretty
light. Randy and I would like the grips to be low enough so that our arm can
"rest" on our leg/lap while holding the stick grip.

With the electrical cable running inside the stick it will be tricky cutting
the stick down later. Even with a connector in the cable at the bottom of
the stick, making the stick removable, the connector would be too big to
pull through the stick tube in order to remove the grip.

Those of you who are flying or have flown the Super/Moose, are the stick
forces light enough to shorten the standard moose stick?


Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner, Randy Bowers
Moose #130 M-14PF 400HP, MT-prop/beta, Aerocet 3500 amphibs, Rome, NY




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[Don Boardman]

Thanks Al, Steve and Bob,

With the feedback that stick forces are really not a problem Randy and I
will cut the stick to custom fit our statures. I just know from flying
sailplanes that resting your forearm on one's thigh makes for a relaxing
flight.

Yes, Bob we will get that seat as high as practical and still allow adequate
head clearance. The run away trim servo ... I will have to ponder that some.

Al, thanks for the numbers. They will help.

Steve, we too have the new bellcrank, at least it was an update from Brian
about two years ago. We have not been able to put both wings on at the same
time yet. Hoping to get into a heated hanger in March to do final rigging.
2-3" of control slop measured at the trailing edge seems unreasonable. I
hope this is not inherent.

Thanks again guys,
Don B.




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[rickhm]

Al, Don, all,

There seem to be some interesting parameters that play in here. The list I see is height of the stick, elevator travel, aileron travel, height of the stick and new and improved Belcrank. As always everything impacts everything. Al, given the information you provided I have a few.

1) With the 11" of aileron travel, on the ground to you get full travel of the ailerons?
2) With the 14" of elevator travel, on the ground do you get full travel of the elevator?
3) What is the height of your seat cusion above the floor? Seems this would play into the picture. Along
the same line of thinking how tall are you? 5'8" versus 6'8" might change the thinking. I'm 6'.
4) Did you fly with the old belcrank or replace before flight. Is this something you would recomend for the
SR2500?
5) In neutral position, how far back is the top of the stick from the panel? In other words how much did you bend it?

Thanks

Rick Muller
SR70

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Paxhia <paxhia2@comcast.net>
Sent: Jan 26, 2004 5:35 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

Don,
When the stick is in the neutral position, my flying position the top of the
grip is 23 1/4" off the floor. For me very comfortable to fly, hand or
couple of fingers on grip, with my wrist on top of leg. Full aileron stop
to stop is 11" on the center of the stick, full elevator is 14". The grip is
teak type, can't recall exactly but the stick goes into the grip about 2
1/2". The way I did the fit was trial and error. The way I would do it next
time is not wire the grip until after the first flight. I pulled my wires
out at least three times.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

The next time I go to the hangar I can take a measurement. I
also had to change the overhead bellcrank to increase its throw.

Al,

I would be interested in the stick height you ended up with.

Thanks,
Don B.

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[Al Paxhia]

Rick,
1 &2) yes on full travel.
3) The seat is 13" off the floor, I'm 5'10".
4)New from the get go, had to change bellcrank to pass inspection. The new
bellcrank that I made is tee shaped (90 degrees), 6" across the top of the
tee, and 3" vertical.
5)In neutral position the stick is about 10" from the panel. Very little
extra bend in the stick.
I did add forward seat stops on both seats so they don't go so far forward
that the stick would hit the seat.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

Al, Don, all,

There seem to be some interesting parameters that play in here. The list

I see is height of the stick, elevator travel, aileron travel, height of the
stick and new and improved Belcrank. As always everything impacts
everything. Al, given the information you provided I have a few.

1) With the 11" of aileron travel, on the ground to you get full travel of

the ailerons?

2) With the 14" of elevator travel, on the ground do you get full travel

of the elevator?

3) What is the height of your seat cusion above the floor? Seems this

would play into the picture. Along

the same line of thinking how tall are you? 5'8" versus 6'8" might

change the thinking. I'm 6'.

4) Did you fly with the old belcrank or replace before flight. Is this

something you would recomend for the

SR2500?
5) In neutral position, how far back is the top of the stick from the

panel? In other words how much did you bend it?

Thanks

Rick Muller
SR70

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Paxhia <paxhia2@comcast.net>
Sent: Jan 26, 2004 5:35 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

Don,
When the stick is in the neutral position, my flying position the top of

the

grip is 23 1/4" off the floor. For me very comfortable to fly, hand

or

couple of fingers on grip, with my wrist on top of leg. Full aileron stop
to stop is 11" on the center of the stick, full elevator is 14". The grip

is

teak type, can't recall exactly but the stick goes into the grip about 2
1/2". The way I did the fit was trial and error. The way I would do it

next

time is not wire the grip until after the first flight. I pulled my wires
out at least three times.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

The next time I go to the hangar I can take a measurement. I
also had to change the overhead bellcrank to increase its throw.

Al,

I would be interested in the stick height you ended up with.

Thanks,
Don B.

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[rickhm]

Thanks, The numbers will be a big help!

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Paxhia <paxhia2@comcast.net>
Sent: Jan 27, 2004 10:03 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

Rick,
1 &2) yes on full travel.
3) The seat is 13" off the floor, I'm 5'10".
4)New from the get go, had to change bellcrank to pass inspection. The new
bellcrank that I made is tee shaped (90 degrees), 6" across the top of the
tee, and 3" vertical.
5)In neutral position the stick is about 10" from the panel. Very little
extra bend in the stick.
I did add forward seat stops on both seats so they don't go so far forward
that the stick would hit the seat.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: <rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

Al, Don, all,

There seem to be some interesting parameters that play in here. The list

I see is height of the stick, elevator travel, aileron travel, height of the
stick and new and improved Belcrank. As always everything impacts
everything. Al, given the information you provided I have a few.

1) With the 11" of aileron travel, on the ground to you get full travel of

the ailerons?

2) With the 14" of elevator travel, on the ground do you get full travel

of the elevator?

3) What is the height of your seat cusion above the floor? Seems this

would play into the picture. Along

the same line of thinking how tall are you? 5'8" versus 6'8" might

change the thinking. I'm 6'.

4) Did you fly with the old belcrank or replace before flight. Is this

something you would recomend for the

SR2500?
5) In neutral position, how far back is the top of the stick from the

panel? In other words how much did you bend it?

Thanks

Rick Muller
SR70

-----Original Message-----
From: Al Paxhia <paxhia2@comcast.net>
Sent: Jan 26, 2004 5:35 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

Don,
When the stick is in the neutral position, my flying position the top of

the

grip is 23 1/4" off the floor. For me very comfortable to fly, hand

or

couple of fingers on grip, with my wrist on top of leg. Full aileron stop
to stop is 11" on the center of the stick, full elevator is 14". The grip

is

teak type, can't recall exactly but the stick goes into the grip about 2
1/2". The way I did the fit was trial and error. The way I would do it

next

time is not wire the grip until after the first flight. I pulled my wires
out at least three times.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Boardman" <dboardm3@twcny.rr.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: How Long a Moose Stick?

The next time I go to the hangar I can take a measurement. I
also had to change the overhead bellcrank to increase its throw.

Al,

I would be interested in the stick height you ended up with.

Thanks,
Don B.

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