Hi All
Just a short note to answer some questions I've been asked about the STOL
kits. The cuffs were the result of my own desire for shorter field
capability and different low speed stability then my Rebel was capable of.
Initially just intended to be a personal statement on my own plane. And I
thought, an affordable performance enhancement without the cash outlay
required to stick more horse-power on the front end. C-FTUJ has an 0-290-D,
125hp, from a Super Cub to make it go.
Anyway, after a ride in a STOL equipped Beaver I decided that was the
perfomance solution for me. And since the Rebel and Beaver both use the
same NACA 4415 airfoil, and, de Havilland engineer Dick Hiscocks
co-designed the Rebel and was the engineer to sign-off the Cuff design used
on the Beaver I had flown in, I thought, we can do this.
The two 12 foot long cuffs are identical to those used on the Beaver scaled
down on a CAD to about 60% and rolled on the same CNC rollers that do the
Beaver cuff. Foam stiffener blocks are bonded with Sicaflex on to the Rebel
leading edge at measured stations. Two rows of rivets need to be
drilled-out and replaced with the supplied counter-sunk rivets so the top
of the cuff sits flush on the top of the wing. This is at each rib from
inboard to outboard. Two air-dams are provided to close-in each end of the
cuff, and a wing fence is tab-mounted from fore to aft on top of the wing.
This aligns with the split in the flaperons.
The only other mods that could be required for installation might be
cut-outs for a leading edge mounted pitot tube ( as in my own case ) or the
leading edge landing light. For the landing light I have been supplying a
piece of cuff to be used as a frame to mount the lens for the light and you
can use it as a form to shape the lexan or polycarbonate lens before you
cut the hole in it.
We have been shipping the kits in 12'+ x 10" Sono-tube.
All of the parts are predrilled and zinc-chromated. Also included are all
the AN hardware and rivets, Sica-flex, foam stiffener blocks, masking tape
AND instructions with pictures. You can get all this for $2500.00 Canadian
Dollars (plus GST in Canada) plus shipping to your destination FOB London,
Ontario.
Jack Wiebe recently installed a kit on his amphib/Rebel and said about
1quart of paint did everything
and that 8 hours was not far off for the job.
Well, it looks like the "short note" got away on me, but I hope this is
of some help to the folks who had questions. Besides e-mail I can be
reached at:
Angus McKenzie
McKenzie-Grant Flying Service
7301 Westminster Drive,
London, Ontario, Canada N6P-1N4
Phone/fax 1-519-652-2734
----------
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1 Message:0001
1
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From: "Brian Cross" <
rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Hi There Folks
The thought that Bob expressed about moving the firewall back is a very
valid one when dealing with the heavy 0320 engines. A 3" movement does
not
sound like very much, but, if one were to do the stress analysis on it,
it
means a great deal. I would have to double check my text books, but I'm
sure that the induced bending stresses in an overhung load such as this
goes
up the square of the distance away from the structure, i.e. double the
distance and you have 4 times the bending stress. In other words, a 3"
movement on a moment arm of about 27" will equate to a significant
reduction
in stress of the nose area. Will it be enough to prevent problems? So
far
so good in my case, but time will tell or should I say one of my bad
landings will tell!
That was a strong enough argument for me to move the firewall back. With
careful placement of the stick i.e. mounted centrally over the 2" cross
tubes as per the original design but with bent sticks to prevent it from
touching the dash, there is no difficulty at all with stick interference
or
forward visibility especially with the speed cowl which really improves
the
view over the nose. With this setup I am very happy with results. After
flying Cessnas, I feel I can see the whole world out front and the only
difficulty I have with the aircraft is to make it stop climbing!
(Seriously, until you get used to all the view over the nose).
Best Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:
bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:24 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Ken, to confuse things further ...
The Rebel that Wayne is talking about, that he just finished
rebuilding, without moving the firewall, was originally powered by a
modified Formula Power Subaru Legacy. As far as I know, it flew very
nicely
in that configuration, on wheels and straight floats ....
(until the floats - NOT Murphy floats - soaked up a little too much water
!)
:-(
.....bobp
<I> would worry about the forward fuse side walls, and the firewall,
and the top panel on the instrument panel, if that heavy engine were not
moved back, though ....
(and everybody wonders WHY I really like that 158 lb Rotax 912-S !! ;-)
)
====== (Great Big Grin
!)
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:13 AM 12/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
Bob
Just to add more confusion.... At the 1998 OSK builder's dinner, Daryl
Murphy
said that he thought all Rebels, regardless of engine, should have the
firewall
moved back. I am not delighted with the moved back seat position, but I
did
it
anyway, partly as I expect the 1800 amphib floats to slightly pull the C
of
G
forward. I think my Subaru weight and c of g is going to be very close
to
an
0-320.
The mod also pulls the instrument panel back to maintain instrument
space
behind
it.
Ken
Bob Johnson wrote:
One more question and that
is in regarding firewall placement with the "O320". I will gladly
build
it the
suggested (3" back) as the instructions indicate, but I know there
are
Rebels
out there at the original position supporting this power plant-What
are
your
thoughts-(I'm probably about 4/6 weeks from starting the
fuselage)-Thanks
again-Bob
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Message:0002
2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
kit
#460 with a 2.2 Soob engine, Ross PSRU and Warp Drive prop I moved the
fire
wall back the recommended 3" mounted my battery as far back as possible
in
the fuselage. My plane with full panel, complete two tone paint job, full
floor and spring gear weighs in at 994LB . And the CG empty is located at
14.7", full fuel solo is 14.6". At gross weight with the OLE lady full
fuel
and 82LB of luggage at 43" my CG is at 16.2". Same as above with only 5
gal.
of fuel the CG is at 15.9. I only have 23 deg. up elevator. I don't think
it
needs us much up elevator because the nose isn't as heavy.
Phil&Lisa
Smith #460
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3 Message:0003
3
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was
very quick to start the self destruct mode!(so keep a close eye on yours)
Easier now than "later". And yes that slanted down nose on the speed cowl
takes a lot of getting use to for level flight!(especially after 100's of
hours in a rebel with the old style cowl) I constantly find myself
climbing
through 4000AGL soon after departure on a local "low level" flight,
because
I'm so use to keeping the nose level with the horizon!
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cross <
rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Hi There Folks
The thought that Bob expressed about moving the firewall back is a very
valid one when dealing with the heavy 0320 engines. A 3" movement does
not
sound like very much, but, if one were to do the stress analysis on it,
it
means a great deal. I would have to double check my text books, but I'm
sure that the induced bending stresses in an overhung load such as this
goes
up the square of the distance away from the structure, i.e. double the
distance and you have 4 times the bending stress. In other words, a 3"
movement on a moment arm of about 27" will equate to a significant
reduction
in stress of the nose area. Will it be enough to prevent problems? So
far
so good in my case, but time will tell or should I say one of my bad
landings will tell!
That was a strong enough argument for me to move the firewall back.
With
careful placement of the stick i.e. mounted centrally over the 2" cross
tubes as per the original design but with bent sticks to prevent it from
touching the dash, there is no difficulty at all with stick interference
or
forward visibility especially with the speed cowl which really improves
the
view over the nose. With this setup I am very happy with results.
After
flying Cessnas, I feel I can see the whole world out front and the only
difficulty I have with the aircraft is to make it stop climbing!
(Seriously, until you get used to all the view over the nose).
Best Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:
bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:24 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Ken, to confuse things further ...
The Rebel that Wayne is talking about, that he just finished
rebuilding, without moving the firewall, was originally powered by a
modified Formula Power Subaru Legacy. As far as I know, it flew very
nicely
in that configuration, on wheels and straight floats ....
(until the floats - NOT Murphy floats - soaked up a little too much
water
!)
:-(
.....bobp
<I> would worry about the forward fuse side walls, and the firewall,
and the top panel on the instrument panel, if that heavy engine were not
moved back, though ....
(and everybody wonders WHY I really like that 158 lb Rotax 912-S !! ;-)
)
!)
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:13 AM 12/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
Bob
Just to add more confusion.... At the 1998 OSK builder's dinner, Daryl
Murphy
said that he thought all Rebels, regardless of engine, should have the
firewall
moved back. I am not delighted with the moved back seat position, but I
did
it
anyway, partly as I expect the 1800 amphib floats to slightly pull the
C
of
G
forward. I think my Subaru weight and c of g is going to be very close
to
an
0-320.
The mod also pulls the instrument panel back to maintain instrument
space
behind
it.
Ken
One more question and that
build
are
are
your
fuselage)-Thanks
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 Message:0004
4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
of
his own designe? I Will be starting the wings on my Elete soon, and it
would be nice to have the kit ready when I build them.
Doug Martin
greyghost@powernet.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
5 Message:0005
5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Brian Cross" <
rebelair@idirect.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Hi Wayne
Thanks for the advice. It is time for me to pull the cowl off again and
have a look. Everything is running so well, I almost hate to look - but,
I
will. With the lousy weather we've had lately, I don't have any excuses
to
take 20 minutes and check to see if anything is bending on the firewall,
oil
fittings are snug & that the throttle & mixture is tight.
I must say, that I did the FUS-28 firewall fix/float fix exactly per MAM
but
was not entirely happy with the concept because as you well know, there
is
nothing right at the engine mount. If I have a problem at all there, I
will
be giving you a call to order your fix.
Thanks again for you input, it is very helpful indeed.
Best Regards Again to All & Keep Building the Rebels, I want to see a
whole
lot more out there. I am tired of my Glastar friend telling how many
there
are in Canada & that he is going to fly at 170 mph and carry 950 lb.
loads.
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea [mailto:
oifa@irishfield.on.ca]
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 3:18 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Brian, Don't forget about Allisters firewall, that is moved back 3"! It
was
very quick to start the self destruct mode!(so keep a close eye on yours)
Easier now than "later". And yes that slanted down nose on the speed cowl
takes a lot of getting use to for level flight!(especially after 100's of
hours in a rebel with the old style cowl) I constantly find myself
climbing
through 4000AGL soon after departure on a local "low level" flight,
because
I'm so use to keeping the nose level with the horizon!
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cross <
rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Hi There Folks
The thought that Bob expressed about moving the firewall back is a very
valid one when dealing with the heavy 0320 engines. A 3" movement does
not
sound like very much, but, if one were to do the stress analysis on it,
it
means a great deal. I would have to double check my text books, but I'm
sure that the induced bending stresses in an overhung load such as this
goes
up the square of the distance away from the structure, i.e. double the
distance and you have 4 times the bending stress. In other words, a 3"
movement on a moment arm of about 27" will equate to a significant
reduction
in stress of the nose area. Will it be enough to prevent problems? So
far
so good in my case, but time will tell or should I say one of my bad
landings will tell!
That was a strong enough argument for me to move the firewall back.
With
careful placement of the stick i.e. mounted centrally over the 2" cross
tubes as per the original design but with bent sticks to prevent it from
touching the dash, there is no difficulty at all with stick interference
or
forward visibility especially with the speed cowl which really improves
the
view over the nose. With this setup I am very happy with results.
After
flying Cessnas, I feel I can see the whole world out front and the only
difficulty I have with the aircraft is to make it stop climbing!
(Seriously, until you get used to all the view over the nose).
Best Regards
Brian #328R
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Patterson [mailto:
bob.patterson@canrem.com]
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:24 PM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Rebel "652" Wing tanks
Ken, to confuse things further ...
The Rebel that Wayne is talking about, that he just finished
rebuilding, without moving the firewall, was originally powered by a
modified Formula Power Subaru Legacy. As far as I know, it flew very
nicely
in that configuration, on wheels and straight floats ....
(until the floats - NOT Murphy floats - soaked up a little too much
water
!)
:-(
.....bobp
<I> would worry about the forward fuse side walls, and the firewall,
and the top panel on the instrument panel, if that heavy engine were not
moved back, though ....
(and everybody wonders WHY I really like that 158 lb Rotax 912-S !! ;-)
)
!)
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 09:13 AM 12/2/99 -0500, you wrote:
Bob
Just to add more confusion.... At the 1998 OSK builder's dinner, Daryl
Murphy
said that he thought all Rebels, regardless of engine, should have the
firewall
moved back. I am not delighted with the moved back seat position, but I
did
it
anyway, partly as I expect the 1800 amphib floats to slightly pull the
C
of
G
forward. I think my Subaru weight and c of g is going to be very close
to
an
0-320.
The mod also pulls the instrument panel back to maintain instrument
space
behind
it.
Ken
One more question and that
build
are
are
your
fuselage)-Thanks
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*
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