Hinge bushings

[Wes & Bobbi Jo Erb]

Hi Steve---

At Steve Rhodes suggestion, I put in 3/8" OD bushings on all the elev /
horizontal stab hinges. Seems another Moose flying had the holes wallow out
a bit. I used flanged bushings on the elev brackets, and straight bushings
on the horizontal stab that would just fit in between the elev brackets. I
had to remove the elev brackets to drill out, but you could probably do it
with a 90 degree drill if you wanted to open up the leading edge skin again.
I put some LocTite around the bushings to keep them from turning with the
bolt (4-11s) but don't know if that will hold it or not. As far as the
manual goes, I'm using it for philosophical guidance and a doorstop.....

Scott, this reinforcing the outboard elevator rib is news to me... Is
there a SB I missed?

Wes Erb
Moose #208
Chugiak, AK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott & Leere' Aldrich" <flynski@mwutah.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 3:18 PM
Subject: Hinge bushings

Steve, FWIW we put brass bushings in all the elevator/stab and rudder/fin
hinges. The outboard elevator hinged wear rather quickly without them.

Did you get the information on reinforcing the outboard elevator rib to

the

rear elevator spar were the outboard hinge attaches? Did they supply a

full

length rear elevator spar channel or L's to make the channel, or still the
short ones?

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Steve Halvorsen
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: REBEL - Elevator and Rudder Spar tube construction


Hay Wayne:

Just finished assembling our elevator and stab and was trying to assemble
the two together as per instructions in our manual and it does NOT say
anything about any bushings to be fitted into the hinge between the two.
The holes in both parts are 1/4" dia. for a AN4-10 bolt to go thru.
Should there be a bushing in there for the parts to pivot on? ? ? Our kit
didn't even have any AN4-10's and when I contacted Brian about not having
any in the kit he said that the 10's were to short and that to use -11's.
This kit was only delivered a month ago.

Should there be bushings in ALL the control pivot points so that the Alum
brackets don't wear out? ? ? ?

Just really started to assemble our Moose and am beginning to wonder if I
should use the manual just for "REFERENCE ONLY" and construct as I believe
it should be put together. Manual leaves a lot to be desired. I know I'm
kicking a dead horse on that one.

Steve H
Moose 213

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[Scott & Leere' Aldrich]

Steve, FWIW we put brass bushings in all the elevator/stab and rudder/fin
hinges. The outboard elevator hinged wear rather quickly without them.

Did you get the information on reinforcing the outboard elevator rib to the
rear elevator spar were the outboard hinge attaches? Did they supply a full
length rear elevator spar channel or L's to make the channel, or still the
short ones?

Scott
Moose 174

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Steve Halvorsen
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: REBEL - Elevator and Rudder Spar tube construction


Hay Wayne:

Just finished assembling our elevator and stab and was trying to assemble
the two together as per instructions in our manual and it does NOT say
anything about any bushings to be fitted into the hinge between the two.
The holes in both parts are 1/4" dia. for a AN4-10 bolt to go thru.
Should there be a bushing in there for the parts to pivot on? ? ? Our kit
didn't even have any AN4-10's and when I contacted Brian about not having
any in the kit he said that the 10's were to short and that to use -11's.
This kit was only delivered a month ago.

Should there be bushings in ALL the control pivot points so that the Alum
brackets don't wear out? ? ? ?

Just really started to assemble our Moose and am beginning to wonder if I
should use the manual just for "REFERENCE ONLY" and construct as I believe
it should be put together. Manual leaves a lot to be desired. I know I'm
kicking a dead horse on that one.

Steve H
Moose 213









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[Wes & Bobbi Jo Erb]

Steve--
The brass (Oilite?) bushings I used were 5/8" long, 3/8"Outside diameter,
1/4" Inside. ($.85 each at your local aviation/hardware store). When I cut
the straight bearings in half, they just fit in between the elev brackets
with some filing. And thanks for the beef up tip, Scott, your picture in
the archives cleared up the rib reinforce info. Will look for more pictures
about the tail cracking later, Steve R's assembly he welded up is quite
impresive....

Wes Erb
Moose 208

----- Original Message -----
From: <steve.h@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: Hinge bushings

Did not get any info on the beef up of this area. We got the quicb build

kit.

What is the length of the bearings??? Maybe I can get some ordered today

to

have for the weekend and get them installed.

Thanks for the info.

Steve H
Moose213

On 11/20/2003 6:32 AM, FLYNSKI@MWUTAH.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:18:47 -0900
-> Received: from ([208.186.183.206]) EHLO=mail.mwutah.com
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450. with SMTP
-> id 163475062; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:18:46 -0900
-> Received: from ONE (unknown [10.0.253.86])
-> by mail.mwutah.com (WNOC.COM) with SMTP id 4AC3B2481DC
-> for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:16:20 -0700 (MST)
-> From: "Scott & Leere' Aldrich" <flynski@mwutah.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Subject: Hinge bushings
-> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:18:30 -0700
-> Message-ID: <APEKJAFLEKAKBHOCOILIIEMPCJAA.flynski@mwutah.com>
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
-> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
-> In-Reply-To: <MBBBILCCGNEPJAMLAAMAAELKCMAA.shalvorsen@dataflo.net>
-> Importance: Normal
->
-> Steve, FWIW we put brass bushings in all the elevator/stab and

rudder/fin

-> hinges. The outboard elevator hinged wear rather quickly without them.
->
-> Did you get the information on reinforcing the outboard elevator rib to

the

-> rear elevator spar were the outboard hinge attaches? Did they supply a

full

-> length rear elevator spar channel or L's to make the channel, or still

the

-> short ones?
->
-> Scott
-> Moose 174
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
-> Steve Halvorsen
-> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:55 PM
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Subject: RE: REBEL - Elevator and Rudder Spar tube construction
->
->
-> Hay Wayne:
->
-> Just finished assembling our elevator and stab and was trying to

assemble

-> the two together as per instructions in our manual and it does NOT say
-> anything about any bushings to be fitted into the hinge between the

two.

-> The holes in both parts are 1/4" dia. for a AN4-10 bolt to go thru.
-> Should there be a bushing in there for the parts to pivot on? ? ? Our

kit

-> didn't even have any AN4-10's and when I contacted Brian about not

having

-> any in the kit he said that the 10's were to short and that to

use -11's.

-> This kit was only delivered a month ago.
->
-> Should there be bushings in ALL the control pivot points so that the

Alum

-> brackets don't wear out? ? ? ?
->
-> Just really started to assemble our Moose and am beginning to wonder if

I

-> should use the manual just for "REFERENCE ONLY" and construct as I

believe

-> it should be put together. Manual leaves a lot to be desired. I know

I'm

-> kicking a dead horse on that one.
->
-> Steve H
-> Moose 213
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->

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->

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->
->
->

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[steve.h]

Did not get any info on the beef up of this area. We got the quicb build kit.

What is the length of the bearings??? Maybe I can get some ordered today to
have for the weekend and get them installed.

Thanks for the info.

Steve H
Moose213

On 11/20/2003 6:32 AM, FLYNSKI@MWUTAH.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:18:47 -0900
-> Received: from ([208.186.183.206]) EHLO=mail.mwutah.com
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450. with SMTP
-> id 163475062; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 15:18:46 -0900
-> Received: from ONE (unknown [10.0.253.86])
-> by mail.mwutah.com (WNOC.COM) with SMTP id 4AC3B2481DC
-> for <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>; Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:16:20 -0700 (MST)
-> From: "Scott & Leere' Aldrich" <flynski@mwutah.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Subject: Hinge bushings
-> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:18:30 -0700
-> Message-ID: <APEKJAFLEKAKBHOCOILIIEMPCJAA.flynski@mwutah.com>
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0)
-> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165
-> In-Reply-To: <MBBBILCCGNEPJAMLAAMAAELKCMAA.shalvorsen@dataflo.net>
-> Importance: Normal
->
-> Steve, FWIW we put brass bushings in all the elevator/stab and rudder/fin
-> hinges. The outboard elevator hinged wear rather quickly without them.
->
-> Did you get the information on reinforcing the outboard elevator rib to the
-> rear elevator spar were the outboard hinge attaches? Did they supply a full
-> length rear elevator spar channel or L's to make the channel, or still the
-> short ones?
->
-> Scott
-> Moose 174
->
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
-> Steve Halvorsen
-> Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 4:55 PM
-> To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
-> Subject: RE: REBEL - Elevator and Rudder Spar tube construction
->
->
-> Hay Wayne:
->
-> Just finished assembling our elevator and stab and was trying to assemble
-> the two together as per instructions in our manual and it does NOT say
-> anything about any bushings to be fitted into the hinge between the two.
-> The holes in both parts are 1/4" dia. for a AN4-10 bolt to go thru.
-> Should there be a bushing in there for the parts to pivot on? ? ? Our kit
-> didn't even have any AN4-10's and when I contacted Brian about not having
-> any in the kit he said that the 10's were to short and that to use -11's.
-> This kit was only delivered a month ago.
->
-> Should there be bushings in ALL the control pivot points so that the Alum
-> brackets don't wear out? ? ? ?
->
-> Just really started to assemble our Moose and am beginning to wonder if I
-> should use the manual just for "REFERENCE ONLY" and construct as I believe
-> it should be put together. Manual leaves a lot to be desired. I know I'm
-> kicking a dead horse on that one.
->
-> Steve H
-> Moose 213
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
->
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->




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[Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake]

Steve - Wayne had a great post about the bushings in the archives that I
followed - Worked good on the H-stab/Elev and I am trying to figure how to
gracfully do my rudder (tougher since the leading edge is closed) - The fin
will also be easy since it is open -

Wayne's post has all the required dimensions - I have taken to checking the
archives before doing anything!

Britt - SR194




-----Original Message-----
From: steve.h@dcsol.com [mailto:steve.h@dcsol.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 8:36 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Hinge bushings


Did not get any info on the beef up of this area. We got the quicb build
kit.

What is the length of the bearings??? Maybe I can get some ordered today to

have for the weekend and get them installed.

Thanks for the info.

Steve H
Moose213



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[Scott & Leere' Aldrich]

Steve H. I was able to install bushing after it was all together. Had to
drill out the leading edge of the elevator and rudder and then used small
wood wedges to keep it open enough to get an angle drill in there to drill
out the hinge.

Also it is easier when the elevator is off to make the "access" hole area
around the hinges a little larger. At least I thought it was a real pain
trying to get bolts and nuts through the hinges with the standard cutout.

Scott
Moose 174




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[Rhodes]

There are 1/4 x 3/8 bushings and 1/4 x 5/16 bushings but the latter are not
flanged. As Wayne stated earlier you can probably just bush the inner
bracket. I see them in both Spruce and Wicks.

Steve
Moose 173


----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott & Leere' Aldrich" <flynski@mwutah.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 09:09
Subject: RE: Hinge bushings

Steve H. I was able to install bushing after it was all together. Had to
drill out the leading edge of the elevator and rudder and then used small
wood wedges to keep it open enough to get an angle drill in there to drill
out the hinge.

Also it is easier when the elevator is off to make the "access" hole area
around the hinges a little larger. At least I thought it was a real pain
trying to get bolts and nuts through the hinges with the standard cutout.

Scott
Moose 174

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Guess you can do it numerous ways Warren! On the rudder I just put a hat
bushing, flange on top of course(which gives a thrust surface), on each fin
bracket set (male portion of the hinge) with the intention of making sure to
tighten (or safety wire) the bolt so it doesn't turn in the rudders "female"
portion of the hinge. (or I may have the hinges backwards in my mind,
haven't looked at them in a long time!!) Sounds like others have put
bushings in both male and female areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

Just about to rip the stab and elevator apart for the 3500 upgrades

Wayne et el,
From the archives, is that.
Rudder/Fin
Qty 6 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4" ID 5/8" length)

Stab/Elev
Qty 4 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID 5/8" length) (for end hinges)
Qty 6 flat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID xx" length)

Warren



Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake wrote:

Wayne's post has all the required dimensions - I have taken to checking

the

archives before doing anything!

Britt - SR194

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[Steve Halvorsen]

Thanks for all the info on putting in bearings for the control systems.
Plan to follow the recommendations of the list.

Good to have some place to bounce things off of.

Someday I'll have some knowledge to pass on to other folks to pay back for
the info I'm getting.

Thanks again

Steve H
Moose 213




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[Warren Montgomery]

Just about to rip the stab and elevator apart for the 3500 upgrades

Wayne et el,
From the archives, is that.
Rudder/Fin
Qty 6 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4" ID 5/8" length)

Stab/Elev
Qty 4 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID 5/8" length) (for end hinges)
Qty 6 flat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID xx" length)

Warren



Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake wrote:

Wayne's post has all the required dimensions - I have taken to checking the
archives before doing anything!

Britt - SR194

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[Tim Saxton]

I was wondering... is there enough edge distance to drill the 1/4" holes in
the hinge brackets out to 3/8" for the bushings? The edge distance I measure
on the stab and fin male hinges is only about 3/8".

The elevator/rudder female hinges have lots more material so no issues (but
I wasn't going to use bushings here, I was going to safety wire the bolts as
Wayne suggests).

Tim
SR060


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

Guess you can do it numerous ways Warren! On the rudder I just put a hat
bushing, flange on top of course(which gives a thrust surface), on each

fin

bracket set (male portion of the hinge) with the intention of making sure

to

tighten (or safety wire) the bolt so it doesn't turn in the rudders

"female"

portion of the hinge. (or I may have the hinges backwards in my mind,
haven't looked at them in a long time!!) Sounds like others have put
bushings in both male and female areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

Just about to rip the stab and elevator apart for the 3500 upgrades

Wayne et el,
From the archives, is that.
Rudder/Fin
Qty 6 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4" ID 5/8" length)

Stab/Elev
Qty 4 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID 5/8" length) (for end hinges)
Qty 6 flat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID xx" length)

Warren



Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake wrote:

Wayne's post has all the required dimensions - I have taken to checking

the

archives before doing anything!

Britt - SR194

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[Tim Saxton]

For edge distance I was measuring from the center of the hole to the edge,
which I believe is the standard way to specify edge distance (?). So with
3/8" edge distance and 1/4" hole there is about 1/4" of material, and with
3/8" hole only about 3/16". Doesn't seem like a lot.

Tim


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

1/4"OD to 3/8"OD only moves you 1/16" closer to the bracket edge. I don't
see it being an issue. By your measurement still leaves 5/16" edge

distance

and this is plenty.
Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Saxton" <tim.saxton@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

I was wondering... is there enough edge distance to drill the 1/4" holes

in

the hinge brackets out to 3/8" for the bushings? The edge distance I

measure

on the stab and fin male hinges is only about 3/8".

The elevator/rudder female hinges have lots more material so no issues

(but

I wasn't going to use bushings here, I was going to safety wire the

bolts

as

Wayne suggests).

Tim
SR060


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

Guess you can do it numerous ways Warren! On the rudder I just put a

hat

bushing, flange on top of course(which gives a thrust surface), on

each

fin

bracket set (male portion of the hinge) with the intention of making

sure

to

tighten (or safety wire) the bolt so it doesn't turn in the rudders

"female"

portion of the hinge. (or I may have the hinges backwards in my mind,
haven't looked at them in a long time!!) Sounds like others have put
bushings in both male and female areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

checking

the

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

1/4"OD to 3/8"OD only moves you 1/16" closer to the bracket edge. I don't
see it being an issue. By your measurement still leaves 5/16" edge distance
and this is plenty.
Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Saxton" <tim.saxton@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 2:04 PM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

I was wondering... is there enough edge distance to drill the 1/4" holes

in

the hinge brackets out to 3/8" for the bushings? The edge distance I

measure

on the stab and fin male hinges is only about 3/8".

The elevator/rudder female hinges have lots more material so no issues

(but

I wasn't going to use bushings here, I was going to safety wire the bolts

as

Wayne suggests).

Tim
SR060


----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

Guess you can do it numerous ways Warren! On the rudder I just put a hat
bushing, flange on top of course(which gives a thrust surface), on each

fin

bracket set (male portion of the hinge) with the intention of making

sure

to

tighten (or safety wire) the bolt so it doesn't turn in the rudders

"female"

portion of the hinge. (or I may have the hinges backwards in my mind,
haven't looked at them in a long time!!) Sounds like others have put
bushings in both male and female areas.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Warren Montgomery" <monty@emirates.net.ae>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

Just about to rip the stab and elevator apart for the 3500 upgrades

Wayne et el,
From the archives, is that.
Rudder/Fin
Qty 6 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4" ID 5/8" length)

Stab/Elev
Qty 4 hat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID 5/8" length) (for end hinges)
Qty 6 flat bushings (3/8"OD 1/4"ID xx" length)

Warren



Reed, Britt/FSC Salt Lake wrote:

checking

the

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[Legeorgen]

Tim,

I believe the rule for edge distance is 1 1/2 times the diameter of the hole.

Bruce



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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Yes for riveting thin sheet together, but I really don't think it applies to
thick brackets for rudder/elevator hinges. Betting that the pull out
pressure, to strip the 3 bushings out of the hinge brackets, by something
mechanical pulling on the rudder would destoy the forward fin attach or the
bolts holding the hinge brackets to the rear spar before the 3/8" bushings
sheared out of the brackets themselves ...with that 3/16" of material left
surrounding the bushing!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: Hinge bushings

Tim,

I believe the rule for edge distance is 1 1/2 times the diameter of the

hole.

Bruce

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