Far Distance Radar Sensors

[klehman]

Interesting read Warren. Wow 77 ghz! It would seem there are several
technologies for measuring height which would be a much better trigger
than say throttle position.

I still think the key to this is a frequency that has a significantly
different reflectivity/absorbtion for water compared to land. Once we
know the height, we need to discern whether it's water or land.

Ken

Warren Montgomery wrote:

Subject Was: Re: TSBC Sea plane Safety Studies


The 77Ghz system may have potential, especially if fitted with a counter
or tone.
<http://www.roke.co.uk/download/datashee ... _radar.pdf>
<http://www.radarnet.org/publications/zip/its_paper.pdf>
Anyone know the current industry state?
snip

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[George Coy]

Microwave Sensors Inc. in Ann Arbor Michigan makes a small inexpensive radar
alarm that is used to to determine if a truck is at a loading dock. It could
be used along with the gear switch to trigger a voice chip that says "gear
is down for land landing " or "gear is up for water landing" . I think all
the parts could be bought for under $150.00.
George Coy

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Warren Montgomery
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 6:18 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Far Distance Radar Sensors


Subject Was: Re: TSBC Sea plane Safety Studies


The 77Ghz system may have potential, especially if fitted with a counter
or tone.
<http://www.roke.co.uk/download/datashee ... _radar.pdf>
<http://www.radarnet.org/publications/zip/its_paper.pdf>
Anyone know the current industry state?

Development of a new powerful but low cost radar network for automotive
applications
Since early 1999, first 77 GHz far distance radar sensors based on
conventional RFcomponents
are commercially available. Suitable only for a limited range of
applications,
e.g. adaptive cruise control (ACC), performance of these sensors is too
low and
production costs are too high for more demanding automotive mass
applications. Near
distance sensors are presently under development with 24 GHz technology.
Due to
bandwidth limitations at 24 GHz and the single sensor design, they have
only a poor
range resolution and no angular resolution. Within RadarNet, both, near
and far distance
sensors, will be realised using one integrated 77 GHz MMIC technology.
With this new
integrated high performance design powerful transmit/receive-modules
(T/R) will be
developed, that will serve as a basis for different types of smart new
77 GHz sensors. As
a consequence, sensor dimensions and costs will be reduced
significantly. All
components of the radar network will thus be produced with only one
manufacturing
technology.

Warren
Moose 029
Dubai, UAE





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[David Ricker]

Guys

I know that the idea here is to come up with a detector that will warn if the
gear is down over water but really, if the radar (or whatever) can detect the
approach to touchdown it would be much simpler to use the detector as a last
minute status check warning/memory tool to tell you to look at the gear
indicator to make sure you haven't forgotten to lower or raise as is
appropriate.

Use the detector to call your attention to the gear indicator (or actually
glance at the gear) rather than rely on the ability of the radar to discern
water from land 100% accurately. Maybe you could substitute an infra-red
sensor for the radar (less costly)?

Just a thought..................

Dave


klehman@albedo.net wrote:

Interesting read Warren. Wow 77 ghz! It would seem there are several
technologies for measuring height which would be a much better trigger
than say throttle position.

I still think the key to this is a frequency that has a significantly
different reflectivity/absorbtion for water compared to land. Once we
know the height, we need to discern whether it's water or land.

Ken

Warren Montgomery wrote:

Subject Was: Re: TSBC Sea plane Safety Studies


The 77Ghz system may have potential, especially if fitted with a counter
or tone.
<http://www.roke.co.uk/download/datashee ... _radar.pdf>
<http://www.radarnet.org/publications/zip/its_paper.pdf>
Anyone know the current industry state?
snip

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--
David A. Ricker P.Eng.
Fall River, Nova Scotia
Canada





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[klehman]

Yes infra red, ultrasonic, a flashlight, dragging a cat (er rock) on a
string, whatever works. Somebody is going to have a thought that makes
this doable!

It's just all too easy to tune out nuisance warnings or to repeat the
previous error when you are busy.

I really think a smart device that has an impact on amphib insurance
rates and pilot health is achievable. A warning that has a high chance
of being real and triggers a "Possible brain fart sequence occurring
here", lets overshoot and sort it out in a leisurely and accurate
manner. Yup a 'PBFS' detector ;)

Ken


David Ricker wrote:

Guys

I know that the idea here is to come up with a detector that will warn if the
gear is down over water but really, if the radar (or whatever) can detect the
approach to touchdown it would be much simpler to use the detector as a last
minute status check warning/memory tool to tell you to look at the gear
indicator to make sure you haven't forgotten to lower or raise as is
appropriate.

Use the detector to call your attention to the gear indicator (or actually
glance at the gear) rather than rely on the ability of the radar to discern
water from land 100% accurately. Maybe you could substitute an infra-red
sensor for the radar (less costly)?

Just a thought..................

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[Warren Montgomery]

Subject Was: Re: TSBC Sea plane Safety Studies


The 77Ghz system may have potential, especially if fitted with a counter
or tone.
<http://www.roke.co.uk/download/datashee ... _radar.pdf>
<http://www.radarnet.org/publications/zip/its_paper.pdf>
Anyone know the current industry state?

Development of a new powerful but low cost radar network for automotive
applications
Since early 1999, first 77 GHz far distance radar sensors based on
conventional RFcomponents
are commercially available. Suitable only for a limited range of
applications,
e.g. adaptive cruise control (ACC), performance of these sensors is too
low and
production costs are too high for more demanding automotive mass
applications. Near
distance sensors are presently under development with 24 GHz technology.
Due to
bandwidth limitations at 24 GHz and the single sensor design, they have
only a poor
range resolution and no angular resolution. Within RadarNet, both, near
and far distance
sensors, will be realised using one integrated 77 GHz MMIC technology.
With this new
integrated high performance design powerful transmit/receive-modules
(T/R) will be
developed, that will serve as a basis for different types of smart new
77 GHz sensors. As
a consequence, sensor dimensions and costs will be reduced
significantly. All
components of the radar network will thus be produced with only one
manufacturing
technology.

Warren
Moose 029
Dubai, UAE





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[Warren Montgomery]

I was actually thinking more for glassy water landings as opposed to
water or land.
All my landing are based on RA autocalls as my wheel height is 27' and
flare +30-20' with no discernible depth perception.

Warren





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