Strengthening for 0320

Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Alister,

We sure enjoy hearing from you and your "field testing" experiences.
I also will be installing the spring gear with an O320 engine and would
very much like to incorporate some of the enhancements that seem reasonable
while I am in the construction stage.

Do you have the standard or Elite style curved instrument panel? How thick
was the upper panel that cracked?

If you would be so kind as to summarize the "mods" you have determined to
be necessary I would be most appreciative.

Thanks again for your posts.

Dave Klimas
Ramona, CA
Rebel #472

Brian,

The flying is going just great, I have clocked up over 160hrs
now. What a neat little aircraft!

Even with a cruise prop I can pull very big loads out of very small areas,

a

very useful aircraft.

The strengthening mods I did around the gear area are working really good,
no problems in that area now.

I found another problem though.

Cracks started to appear on the instrument panel, on checking, they were
coming from a mis-directed load path. When taxiing ( when heavy) on rough
ground the panel in front and on top of the instrument panel used to pant
(flex) on either side just in front of where the instrument panel bends. It
finally cracked in this area. ( this was hidden by upholstery)

I had to remove the windscreen and reinforce the area including the top
engine mounts.

I have no doubt that the problems I have experienced come from hanging off
heavier and heavier motors without increasing the skin thickness and design
up front to compensate. ( Didn't the Rebel start with a 582?)

I also operate off sometimes very rough strips. ( a lot off these were put
in in the old deer meat recovery days, they are cut out of riverbeds and

are

ROUGH!) Murphy says ' sorry, but it appears you are doing the forward field
testing for these types of operations', They are probably right, they say
that over there that the majority of Rebels that operate in the outback
would be on floats. Floats can be very hard on a fuse as well but the load
paths are very different.

However, I really do feel that I am getting to the point where I am on top
of this ( I hope those aren't famous last words!).

If you are running an 0320 and spring gear and intend to operate out of
unimproved strips it would pay to have a think about it.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cross <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: c of g

Hi Alister

Sorry if I confused/misled you about my empty C of G. With 2 pilots & 3/4
fuel my the C of G is
about 16". My empty C of G is 11.6".

How is the flying going? Spring gear OK?

Best Regards

Brian #328R

:08 PM 19/08/99 +1200, you wrote:
Hi Brian,
Could you confirn that your C of G is 16" empty.

That seems a long way back before you even begin to load it.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cross <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Thursday, August 19, 1999 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: c of g

have

movement

factory
of
firewall rear
.....
weight,
weight. big, motorcycle

up

it
would

have

softer

and

ANYTHING

the

will
flights,
tied

of

UP

lots.

-

be
g
wheel

an

0320 position

should

I
be

all,

is
any case

have

16.8"
and Even
adjust
the
the

on

the
experience
of
meeting
in

how

engine back

build

a
back.

g

tail. *----------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 1999 20:23:25 +1200
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Hi Dave,

These mods are not so much mods for mods sake, but were done because they
were essential. If we had not done them things would have come to bits by
now!

1/ Front lower rolled corners replaced with 32 thou.
Where rolled corner meets front side panel C channel placed fore and aft to
stiffen area and stop panting (flexing), two rows of rivets there.

2/ Solid aluminum blocks milled and inserted in ends of all carrythroughs
(about 2 1/4" long & tapered a little
on the ends to stop stress points forming). the three AN 3 bolts in this
area were replaced by 3 long AN 4 bolts passing right through the whole
lot. We replaced the outer gear attach bolts with 3/8" and the main inner
bolt with 7/16" ( I would consider that last bit optional).

3/ Replace Fus 26 with 32 thou.
We replaced Fus 35 with one with wider flanges to accept two rows of rivets.
( optional)

4/ double pitch door post all the way up, the door post is wide enough to
'stagger' the rivets fore and aft a little.

5/ Complete Murphy's Float fix mod.
C channel between engine mount should be heavier rather than lighter.

6/ Top engine mount doubler removed and replaced with a C channel ( top hat
would be more effective) on the inside right back to the witches hat . We
also placed a larger flat 32 thou doubler on the outside as well.

7/ Front upper panel ( Fus

is very light. the weak spot appears to be
just in front of where the instrument panel bends backwards to meet the door
post. A triangular 32 thou. doubler installed on either side in this
position will do the trick. A stiffener across the middle of this top panel
should also be considered, it is very light.

8/ A doubler should be placed under the tail wheel attach bulkhead back to
the tail post as described recently in this forum. This falls to bits quite
quickly.

That just about covers it!! All these mods are not just my ideas but have
been looked at by very experienced aircraft engineers over here and were
necessary to carry on with safe operations. Other builders over here are
incorporating these mods as they go.

I do stress this is a Rebel with an 0320 ( heavier motor, which is a lot of
the problem) and spring gear (different load paths to
bungee) and is being operated on unimproved strips.

Other Rebels operated in a different manner may not show the same symptoms.

Hope this is of interest.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Alister,

We sure enjoy hearing from you and your "field testing" experiences.
I also will be installing the spring gear with an O320 engine and would
very much like to incorporate some of the enhancements that seem reasonable
while I am in the construction stage.

Do you have the standard or Elite style curved instrument panel? How thick
was the upper panel that cracked?

If you would be so kind as to summarize the "mods" you have determined to
be necessary I would be most appreciative.

Thanks again for your posts.

Dave Klimas
Ramona, CA
Rebel #472

Brian,

The flying is going just great, I have clocked up over 160hrs
now. What a neat little aircraft!

Even with a cruise prop I can pull very big loads out of very small areas,

a

very useful aircraft.

The strengthening mods I did around the gear area are working really good,
no problems in that area now.

I found another problem though.

Cracks started to appear on the instrument panel, on checking, they were
coming from a mis-directed load path. When taxiing ( when heavy) on rough
ground the panel in front and on top of the instrument panel used to pant
(flex) on either side just in front of where the instrument panel bends.

It

finally cracked in this area. ( this was hidden by upholstery)

I had to remove the windscreen and reinforce the area including the top
engine mounts.

I have no doubt that the problems I have experienced come from hanging off
heavier and heavier motors without increasing the skin thickness and

design

up front to compensate. ( Didn't the Rebel start with a 582?)

I also operate off sometimes very rough strips. ( a lot off these were put
in in the old deer meat recovery days, they are cut out of riverbeds and

are

ROUGH!) Murphy says ' sorry, but it appears you are doing the forward

field

testing for these types of operations', They are probably right, they say
that over there that the majority of Rebels that operate in the outback
would be on floats. Floats can be very hard on a fuse as well but the load
paths are very different.

However, I really do feel that I am getting to the point where I am on top
of this ( I hope those aren't famous last words!).

If you are running an 0320 and spring gear and intend to operate out of
unimproved strips it would pay to have a think about it.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cross <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: c of g

Hi Alister

Sorry if I confused/misled you about my empty C of G. With 2 pilots &

3/4

fuel my the C of G is
about 16". My empty C of G is 11.6".

How is the flying going? Spring gear OK?

Best Regards

Brian #328R

:08 PM 19/08/99 +1200, you wrote:

have

movement

wheels

factory

heard

of

the

.....
weight,

up

keeping

it

have

softer

and

the

will
flights,

of

lots.

--

would

be

of

g

an

should

I

all,

is

course,

forward

have

16.8"

all.

adjust
the

on

experience
meeting

how

the

build

a

g

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

*----------------------------------------------------*
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between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
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*----------------------------------------------------*

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

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Thanks for the detailed posting Alister. I hate it when you send them after
I've
completed the applicable section but food for thought is always good!

And congratulations on achieving liftoff Glenn. Appreciate the info. Please
let
us know how flight testing progresses if you can.

Ken

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel Builders List)
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Hi Alister,

Thank you so much for taking the time to post your list of "mods" for us.

The Elite curved instrument panel I ordered for my Rebel came with a new 32
thou FUS-8; the original is 25 thou.

Once again, thank you.

Dave Klimas
Ramona, CA
Rebel #472

Hi Dave,

These mods are not so much mods for mods sake, but were done because they
were essential. If we had not done them things would have come to bits by
now!

1/ Front lower rolled corners replaced with 32 thou.
Where rolled corner meets front side panel C channel placed fore and aft to
stiffen area and stop panting (flexing), two rows of rivets there.

2/ Solid aluminum blocks milled and inserted in ends of all carrythroughs
(about 2 1/4" long & tapered a little
on the ends to stop stress points forming). the three AN 3 bolts in this
area were replaced by 3 long AN 4 bolts passing right through the whole
lot. We replaced the outer gear attach bolts with 3/8" and the main inner
bolt with 7/16" ( I would consider that last bit optional).

3/ Replace Fus 26 with 32 thou.
We replaced Fus 35 with one with wider flanges to accept two rows of

rivets.

( optional)

4/ double pitch door post all the way up, the door post is wide enough to
'stagger' the rivets fore and aft a little.

5/ Complete Murphy's Float fix mod.
C channel between engine mount should be heavier rather than lighter.

6/ Top engine mount doubler removed and replaced with a C channel ( top hat
would be more effective) on the inside right back to the witches hat . We
also placed a larger flat 32 thou doubler on the outside as well.

7/ Front upper panel ( Fus is very light. the weak spot appears to be
just in front of where the instrument panel bends backwards to meet the

door

post. A triangular 32 thou. doubler installed on either side in this
position will do the trick. A stiffener across the middle of this top panel
should also be considered, it is very light.

8/ A doubler should be placed under the tail wheel attach bulkhead back to
the tail post as described recently in this forum. This falls to bits quite
quickly.

That just about covers it!! All these mods are not just my ideas but have
been looked at by very experienced aircraft engineers over here and were
necessary to carry on with safe operations. Other builders over here are
incorporating these mods as they go.

I do stress this is a Rebel with an 0320 ( heavier motor, which is a lot of
the problem) and spring gear (different load paths to
bungee) and is being operated on unimproved strips.

Other Rebels operated in a different manner may not show the same symptoms.

Hope this is of interest.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Alister,

We sure enjoy hearing from you and your "field testing" experiences.
I also will be installing the spring gear with an O320 engine and would
very much like to incorporate some of the enhancements that seem

reasonable

while I am in the construction stage.

Do you have the standard or Elite style curved instrument panel? How thick
was the upper panel that cracked?

If you would be so kind as to summarize the "mods" you have determined to
be necessary I would be most appreciative.

Thanks again for your posts.

Dave Klimas
Ramona, CA
Rebel #472

snip<<<

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 19:45:34 +1200
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Hi Dave,

The new heavier Fus 8 fitted on a curved panel for the Elite will tighten
things up nicely.

That must be an admission by Murphy that things needed looking at in that
area. They don't let on much do they!! Why don't they bulletin these things?
It would save a lot a trouble for unsuspecting builders further down the
track.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Monday, August 23, 1999 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Hi Alister,

Thank you so much for taking the time to post your list of "mods" for us.

The Elite curved instrument panel I ordered for my Rebel came with a new 32
thou FUS-8; the original is 25 thou.

Once again, thank you.

Dave Klimas
Ramona, CA
Rebel #472

Hi Dave,

These mods are not so much mods for mods sake, but were done because they
were essential. If we had not done them things would have come to bits by
now!

1/ Front lower rolled corners replaced with 32 thou.
Where rolled corner meets front side panel C channel placed fore and aft

to

stiffen area and stop panting (flexing), two rows of rivets there.

2/ Solid aluminum blocks milled and inserted in ends of all carrythroughs
(about 2 1/4" long & tapered a little
on the ends to stop stress points forming). the three AN 3 bolts in this
area were replaced by 3 long AN 4 bolts passing right through the whole
lot. We replaced the outer gear attach bolts with 3/8" and the main inner
bolt with 7/16" ( I would consider that last bit optional).

3/ Replace Fus 26 with 32 thou.
We replaced Fus 35 with one with wider flanges to accept two rows of

rivets.

( optional)

4/ double pitch door post all the way up, the door post is wide enough to
'stagger' the rivets fore and aft a little.

5/ Complete Murphy's Float fix mod.
C channel between engine mount should be heavier rather than lighter.

6/ Top engine mount doubler removed and replaced with a C channel ( top

hat

would be more effective) on the inside right back to the witches hat . We
also placed a larger flat 32 thou doubler on the outside as well.

7/ Front upper panel ( Fus is very light. the weak spot appears to be
just in front of where the instrument panel bends backwards to meet the

door

post. A triangular 32 thou. doubler installed on either side in this
position will do the trick. A stiffener across the middle of this top

panel

should also be considered, it is very light.

8/ A doubler should be placed under the tail wheel attach bulkhead back to
the tail post as described recently in this forum. This falls to bits

quite

quickly.

That just about covers it!! All these mods are not just my ideas but have
been looked at by very experienced aircraft engineers over here and were
necessary to carry on with safe operations. Other builders over here are
incorporating these mods as they go.

I do stress this is a Rebel with an 0320 ( heavier motor, which is a lot

of

the problem) and spring gear (different load paths to
bungee) and is being operated on unimproved strips.

Other Rebels operated in a different manner may not show the same

symptoms.

Hope this is of interest.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Alister,

We sure enjoy hearing from you and your "field testing" experiences.
I also will be installing the spring gear with an O320 engine and would
very much like to incorporate some of the enhancements that seem

reasonable

while I am in the construction stage.

Do you have the standard or Elite style curved instrument panel? How

thick

was the upper panel that cracked?

If you would be so kind as to summarize the "mods" you have determined to
be necessary I would be most appreciative.

Thanks again for your posts.

Dave Klimas
Ramona, CA
Rebel #472

*----------------------------------------------------*
The Murphy Rebel Builders List is for the discussion
between builders and owners of Murphy Rebel aircraft.
Archives located at:
http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists/default.htm
*----------------------------------------------------*

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

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Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:43:59 -0700
Reply-To: <tlcarter@msn.com>
From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel Builders List'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Strengthening for 0320
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 10:46:19 -0700
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Alister:

Can you elaborate a bit more on number 2 below?

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 1:23 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Hi Dave,

These mods are not so much mods for mods sake, but were done because they
were essential. If we had not done them things would have come to bits by
now!

1/ Front lower rolled corners replaced with 32 thou.
Where rolled corner meets front side panel C channel placed fore and aft to
stiffen area and stop panting (flexing), two rows of rivets there.

2/ Solid aluminum blocks milled and inserted in ends of all carrythroughs
(about 2 1/4" long & tapered a little
on the ends to stop stress points forming). the three AN 3 bolts in this
area were replaced by 3 long AN 4 bolts passing right through the whole
lot. We replaced the outer gear attach bolts with 3/8" and the main inner
bolt with 7/16" ( I would consider that last bit optional).

3/ Replace Fus 26 with 32 thou.
We replaced Fus 35 with one with wider flanges to accept two rows of rivets.
( optional)

4/ double pitch door post all the way up, the door post is wide enough to
'stagger' the rivets fore and aft a little.

5/ Complete Murphy's Float fix mod.
C channel between engine mount should be heavier rather than lighter.

6/ Top engine mount doubler removed and replaced with a C channel ( top hat
would be more effective) on the inside right back to the witches hat . We
also placed a larger flat 32 thou doubler on the outside as well.

7/ Front upper panel ( Fus

is very light. the weak spot appears to be
just in front of where the instrument panel bends backwards to meet the door
post. A triangular 32 thou. doubler installed on either side in this
position will do the trick. A stiffener across the middle of this top panel
should also be considered, it is very light.

8/ A doubler should be placed under the tail wheel attach bulkhead back to
the tail post as described recently in this forum. This falls to bits quite
quickly.

That just about covers it!! All these mods are not just my ideas but have
been looked at by very experienced aircraft engineers over here and were
necessary to carry on with safe operations. Other builders over here are
incorporating these mods as they go.

I do stress this is a Rebel with an 0320 ( heavier motor, which is a lot of
the problem) and spring gear (different load paths to
bungee) and is being operated on unimproved strips.

Other Rebels operated in a different manner may not show the same symptoms.

Hope this is of interest.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Klimas <drk@cts.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

Alister,

We sure enjoy hearing from you and your "field testing" experiences.
I also will be installing the spring gear with an O320 engine and would
very much like to incorporate some of the enhancements that seem reasonable
while I am in the construction stage.

Do you have the standard or Elite style curved instrument panel? How thick
was the upper panel that cracked?

If you would be so kind as to summarize the "mods" you have determined to
be necessary I would be most appreciative.

Thanks again for your posts.

Dave Klimas
Ramona, CA
Rebel #472

Brian,

The flying is going just great, I have clocked up over 160hrs
now. What a neat little aircraft!

Even with a cruise prop I can pull very big loads out of very small areas,

a

very useful aircraft.

The strengthening mods I did around the gear area are working really good,
no problems in that area now.

I found another problem though.

Cracks started to appear on the instrument panel, on checking, they were
coming from a mis-directed load path. When taxiing ( when heavy) on rough
ground the panel in front and on top of the instrument panel used to pant
(flex) on either side just in front of where the instrument panel bends.

It

finally cracked in this area. ( this was hidden by upholstery)

I had to remove the windscreen and reinforce the area including the top
engine mounts.

I have no doubt that the problems I have experienced come from hanging off
heavier and heavier motors without increasing the skin thickness and

design

up front to compensate. ( Didn't the Rebel start with a 582?)

I also operate off sometimes very rough strips. ( a lot off these were put
in in the old deer meat recovery days, they are cut out of riverbeds and

are

ROUGH!) Murphy says ' sorry, but it appears you are doing the forward

field

testing for these types of operations', They are probably right, they say
that over there that the majority of Rebels that operate in the outback
would be on floats. Floats can be very hard on a fuse as well but the load
paths are very different.

However, I really do feel that I am getting to the point where I am on top
of this ( I hope those aren't famous last words!).

If you are running an 0320 and spring gear and intend to operate out of
unimproved strips it would pay to have a think about it.

Cheers

Alister

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Cross <rebelair@idirect.com>
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Date: Friday, August 20, 1999 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: c of g

Hi Alister

Sorry if I confused/misled you about my empty C of G. With 2 pilots &

3/4

fuel my the C of G is
about 16". My empty C of G is 11.6".

How is the flying going? Spring gear OK?

Best Regards

Brian #328R

:08 PM 19/08/99 +1200, you wrote:

have

movement

wheels

factory

heard

of

the

.....
weight,

up

keeping

it

have

softer

and

the

will
flights,

of

lots.

--

would

be

of

g

an

should

I

all,

is

course,

forward

have

16.8"

all.

adjust
the

on

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build

a

g

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 5:26 pm

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From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: "Murphy Rebel Builders List" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
References: <000401beed8f$a33f6660$14640a0a@tim>
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 14:06:32 -0400
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I think the clarification you are looking for can be found in the following
archived message...

http://www.dcsol.com/murphy-rebel/lists ... 000120.htm

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Carter <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: 'Murphy Rebel Builders List' <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: Strengthening for 0320

Alister:

Can you elaborate a bit more on number 2 below?

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 1:23 AM
To: Murphy Rebel Builders List
Subject: Re: Strengthening for 0320

2/ Solid aluminum blocks milled and inserted in ends of all carrythroughs
(about 2 1/4" long & tapered a little
on the ends to stop stress points forming). the three AN 3 bolts in this
area were replaced by 3 long AN 4 bolts passing right through the whole
lot. We replaced the outer gear attach bolts with 3/8" and the main inner
bolt with 7/16" ( I would consider that last bit optional).

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