Rebel Flaperon Control System

[rognal]

I posted this question on 9/7 but didn't get any bites. Would like to post it
again, hoping someone(Wayne?)could give me some instruction. Any photo's would
be a bonus.

1. According to my manual (#687R), after fitting/rivetting the hanger bracket
to the channel, and the channel to bulkheads F&G, I'm to install a strap to
tie the two channels together BEHIND the hanger bracket. Also I'm to install
gussets at each end of the channels to tie the channel to bulkheads F&G.It
seems to me there is very little real estate left on bulkhead F to do this.
Would anyone have a photo of how this was done?

Thanks,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!



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[Murray and Carol Cherkas]

Roger:

You have two channels running between bulkheads F 7 G.The hanger bracket
fits between these two channels.Cut a piece of .020 or .025 1 3/8" wide.
This will tie the two channels together in front of and behind the hanger
bracket. Drill holes in the strap at 1 1/2" spacing spaced so that they will
be in the middle of the flanges on the channels. Hold the strap up to the
channels and drill through the holes previously drilled in the strap into
the channel flanges.Re-drill to # 30,debur, clean, chromate and rivet in
place.Do this in front of and behind the hanger bracket.Keep the strap
slightly short of the bulkheads to accommodate gussets to tie the channels
to the bulkheads. The gussets are the same as the ones you made to tie the
bulkheads to the channel over the door on the inside of the cabin.When I
made the strap I incorporated the gusset into the end of the strap(widened
the end of the strap). This I think makes it look a little neater. Don't
have a camera to take a picture. Hope this helps.

Good luck
Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rognal@dcsol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 7:06 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Rebel Flaperon Control System


I posted this question on 9/7 but didn't get any bites. Would like to post
it
again, hoping someone(Wayne?)could give me some instruction. Any photo's
would
be a bonus.

1. According to my manual (#687R), after fitting/rivetting the hanger
bracket
to the channel, and the channel to bulkheads F&G, I'm to install a strap to
tie the two channels together BEHIND the hanger bracket. Also I'm to install
gussets at each end of the channels to tie the channel to bulkheads F&G.It
seems to me there is very little real estate left on bulkhead F to do this.
Would anyone have a photo of how this was done?

Thanks,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!



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[rognal]

Thanks Murray. It does.

Roger


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[rognal]

Wayne,

I didn't really want to bother you but I figured if anybody had photos it
would be you. Thanks for taking the time.

I am referring to the torque tube hanger bracket channels. My manual requires
two, back to back with the hanger bracket sandwiched between them. Each end of
each channel is attached to the bulkhead with an 'L' bracket, similiar to the
floor channels.

Once the hanger bracket and channels are in place and the torque tubes have
been fitted without binding, the manual states:

"From scrap .020 material fabricate a strap to go between the two channels
behind the hanger to tie them together. Layout a nominal rivet pattern and
rivet with 1/8

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Sorry Roger! Trying to devote some time to other things around here like our
25,000 sq ft expansion at the plant, as well as getting the hanger prepared
for the float planes to come "home" from the lakes.

I think Murray summed it up pretty good and you both have me confused anyhow
talking about TWO "channels" as all the manuals I have only have one and a
hanger bracket. Has MAM changed things with the torque tube hanger
attachment (that I have previously advised to double up or it will get
buckled the first time the wind grabs ahold of your flaperons from behind)
or are you talking about the double Square BULKHEADS that the rear wing
attach fittings go into and the strip of aluminum to turn these into a box
beam?

Which ever of these you are referring to I probably have some pictures!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rognal@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 10:06 PM
Subject: Rebel Flaperon Control System

I posted this question on 9/7 but didn't get any bites. Would like to post

it

again, hoping someone(Wayne?)could give me some instruction. Any photo's

would

be a bonus.

1. According to my manual (#687R), after fitting/rivetting the hanger

bracket

to the channel, and the channel to bulkheads F&G, I'm to install a strap

to

tie the two channels together BEHIND the hanger bracket. Also I'm to

install

gussets at each end of the channels to tie the channel to bulkheads F&G.It
seems to me there is very little real estate left on bulkhead F to do

this.

Would anyone have a photo of how this was done?

Thanks,

Roger Hoffman #687R
Eugene, OR USA!

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[Legeorgen]

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a double
channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but decided it
was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim tap horn
in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the single
horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had failed. I
would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R



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[klehman]

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a double
channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but decided it
was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim tap horn
in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the single
horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had failed. I
would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Ken !

I'd appreciate it if you could find that bulletin - and
a web address for it, if you have it.

I'll be talking about this, and a couple of other areas,
at the Builders Meeting on Sunday - these are NOT "nice-to-do" things,
they are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY !!! (still shaking !! :-( )

Bruce only heard about the partially-broken (by a stone
on takeoff) trim tab horn - the 'field-repaired' one tore completely off
over New Brunswick, and I payed an unscheduled visit to Mr. McCain's
private runway !! Sure glad it was close !

Thanks ! See you all on Sunday !

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 10:56 PM 9/12/03 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a

double

channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but

decided it

was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim tap

horn

in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the single
horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had failed. I
would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R

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[Lonnie Benson]

Bob, Service Bulletin 110520REB dated May 16, 2000, titled Rebel Trim Tab
Horn Attachment is what you are looking for. I could not find it on the
Murphy web site. I have a copy. It states that a second trim horn should
be added to the elevator trim and that one could be ordered from the
shipping dept.

Lonnie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel Flaperon Control System

Hi Ken !

I'd appreciate it if you could find that bulletin - and
a web address for it, if you have it.

I'll be talking about this, and a couple of other areas,
at the Builders Meeting on Sunday - these are NOT "nice-to-do" things,
they are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY !!! (still shaking !! :-( )

Bruce only heard about the partially-broken (by a stone
on takeoff) trim tab horn - the 'field-repaired' one tore completely off
over New Brunswick, and I payed an unscheduled visit to Mr. McCain's
private runway !! Sure glad it was close !

Thanks ! See you all on Sunday !

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 10:56 PM 9/12/03 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a

double

channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but

decided it

was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim

tap

horn

in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the

single

horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had

failed. I

would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R

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[Bob Patterson]

Thanks Lonnie ! Everyone - be SURE to DO THIS !!!!

.....bobp

---------------------------------orig.---------------------------
At 12:06 PM 9/13/03 -0400, you wrote:

Bob, Service Bulletin 110520REB dated May 16, 2000, titled Rebel Trim Tab
Horn Attachment is what you are looking for. I could not find it on the
Murphy web site. I have a copy. It states that a second trim horn should
be added to the elevator trim and that one could be ordered from the
shipping dept.

Lonnie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: Rebel Flaperon Control System

Hi Ken !

I'd appreciate it if you could find that bulletin - and
a web address for it, if you have it.

I'll be talking about this, and a couple of other areas,
at the Builders Meeting on Sunday - these are NOT "nice-to-do" things,
they are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY !!! (still shaking !! :-( )

Bruce only heard about the partially-broken (by a stone
on takeoff) trim tab horn - the 'field-repaired' one tore completely off
over New Brunswick, and I payed an unscheduled visit to Mr. McCain's
private runway !! Sure glad it was close !

Thanks ! See you all on Sunday !

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 10:56 PM 9/12/03 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

double

decided it

tap

horn

single

failed. I

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[Brian Cross]

Hi Ken

I was not able to find that Service Bulletin on the MAM site. Can this
doubler be added on a flying Rebel?

Thanks

Brian #328R


At 10:56 PM 9/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a

double

channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but

decided it

was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim

tap horn

in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the

single

horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had failed. I
would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R

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[Lonnie Benson]

Yes, I did. Made my own part

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Cross" <bcross2160@rogers.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Flaperon Control System

Hi Ken

I was not able to find that Service Bulletin on the MAM site. Can this
doubler be added on a flying Rebel?

Thanks

Brian #328R


At 10:56 PM 9/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a

double

channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but

decided it

was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim

tap horn

in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the

single

horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had

failed. I

would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R

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[klehman]

Hi Brian

Sure although I added a larger flat doubler on the trim tab underneath
mine. Don't know if you'd need to do that. I also tried to make the
horns almost the full width of the trim tab.

As I recall MAM wants a mirror image of the existing horn riveted to the
existing horn. If the existing horn looks like an upside down capital L
then the doubled horn would look like an upside down capital T. Two L's
riveted back to back so to speak.

MAM doesn't put out a lot of bulletins or frivolous ones so I tend to
treat what they do put out as mandatory AD's.

Ken

Brian Cross wrote:

Hi Ken

I was not able to find that Service Bulletin on the MAM site. Can this
doubler be added on a flying Rebel?

Thanks

Brian #328R


At 10:56 PM 9/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a

double

channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but

decided it

was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim

tap horn

in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the

single

horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had failed. I
would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R

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[Bob Patterson]

Hi Brian !

I would STRONGLY recommend it !! Catch me at the Builders
Meeting tomorrow, or at the Corn/Pig Roast tonight (6 pm), for
more details . I'd be interested in having a look at your elevator
and trim - I'll show you what happened to mine in only about 200 Hr. !
There are other factors, besides the need for a stronger trim tab
horn ....

This mod is very important for faster Rebels - the chances of
flutter increase dramatically with speed - something to think about
on those long high-speed descents from 9,500 feet that I did a lot
of this summer ! (Leave power about 2,300+ rpm to avoid shock cooling,
and set up for 400 - 500 fpm descent by increasing cruise speed -
gives fuel economy and faster times point-to-point)

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 02:37 PM 9/13/03 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Ken

I was not able to find that Service Bulletin on the MAM site. Can this
doubler be added on a flying Rebel?

Thanks

Brian #328R


At 10:56 PM 9/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

Wayne,

The newer manuals (CD) DO show this channel between bulkheads now as a

double

channel. I looked at this last year and pondered doubling mine but

decided it

was not worth it.

I do remember Bobp at Arlington mentioning he lost his electric trim

tap horn

in flight and had a flutter experience. On landing it was noticed the

single

horn on the trim tap (now a double trim tap on newer models) had failed. I
would double this area if anyone hasn't yet.

Bruce 357R

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

As Bob states this is a better now than later item! When mine starting
letting go it had cracked the front spar in the trim tab as well. Required
opening up and inserting a spar doubler. I believe I have some pics of my
repair job if anyone is interested for me to post them to the archives (if I
already didn't put them there, will have a look!)

The one thing to watch even after doubling up the horn is to make sure that
you have some skin to spar rivets on each side of the servo rod horns. The
original rivet pitch left a fair space between the rivets and the horn and
this allows the area to work even more.

I'm harder on this area than most people as I use full stick forward and
lots of power all winter long lifting the tail up and out of the snow before
I move anywhere on skis and anyone that has witnessed my summer takeoffs as
well knows that I love to lift the tail before I have moved forward for a
shorter take off run (and also promotes less stress to the airframe on rough
fields with the tailwheel up from the get-go!)

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 4:25 PM
Subject: Re: Rebel Flaperon Control System

Hi Brian !

I would STRONGLY recommend it !! Catch me at the Builders
Meeting tomorrow, or at the Corn/Pig Roast tonight (6 pm), for
more details . I'd be interested in having a look at your elevator
and trim - I'll show you what happened to mine in only about 200 Hr. !
There are other factors, besides the need for a stronger trim tab
horn ....

This mod is very important for faster Rebels - the chances of
flutter increase dramatically with speed - something to think about
on those long high-speed descents from 9,500 feet that I did a lot
of this summer ! (Leave power about 2,300+ rpm to avoid shock cooling,
and set up for 400 - 500 fpm descent by increasing cruise speed -
gives fuel economy and faster times point-to-point)

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.------------------------------
At 02:37 PM 9/13/03 -0400, you wrote:

Hi Ken

I was not able to find that Service Bulletin on the MAM site. Can this
doubler be added on a flying Rebel?

Thanks

Brian #328R


At 10:56 PM 9/12/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Bruce
There is indeed a MAM bulletin to double the trim horn on all 0-320 trim
tabs and also recommending it on all Rebels regardless of engine. I can
look it up but I've had it for a few years I believe.

Roger
FWIW I used angle brackets at the rear of those channels to tie into the
bulkhead. Same as on the ends of all the floor channels. I think that is
what they mean by gussets. You are correct though that it is a busy
area. There is a doubler there on the bulkhead over the cutout in the
top of the bulkhead. I replaced that doubler over the cutout on the
bulkhead with a much larger doubler. Then I arranged for some of the
same rivets to fasten both the doubler and the angle brackets. If I
remember correctly, you should also offset the rivets in the doubled
bulkhead so that they don't interfere with each other in the gap between
the doubled bulkheads. ie. when installing those doublers don't drill
straight through both bulkheads as the rivet from the rear would then
interfere with the rivet from the front.
Ken

Legeorgen@aol.com wrote:

a

double decided it tap horn single

failed. I

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