Hi Drew,
Were your floats pre builds from MAM with the clear hydraulic lines? I'm
assuming you had problems with the lines MAM supplied and you replaced them with
DOT approved plastic hydraulic lines. They would not hold pressure? I would
like to hear more.
I have a set of pre builds from MAM I will install this winter and have
considered replacing the clear plastic lines with aircraft quality hydraulic line.
I have clear plastic on the brake lines and have not had any problems with
it. I like the fact I can see through them.
I did replace one of the forward cylinder lines, as it was kinked because of
a poor installation.
Bruce 357R
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Float hydraulic lines
-
Drew Dalgleish
Float hydraulic lines
Hi Bruce
My floats are murphy 1800's from a kit. I had clear plastic lines
supplied from murphy probably the same ones as you have. I've found that
these lines kink very easily even after I installed them and they were in
use kinks would show up out of the blue. I couldn't get the nylon fittings
to hold pressure and they would loosen after sitting for a while. one day
with the nosewheel facing forwards so the weight of the plane was trying to
retract the gear one of the fittings blew apart. I decided I couldn't trust
this system any longer so I replaced all the nylon fittings with brass and
brass inserts that go inside the end of the hose where the compression
fitting clamps. This didn't work at all because the hose is too soft for
the brass fittings and they cut into the hose when clamped tight. I never
even got to test fly this system because it kept springing leaks while
testing in the hangar. I talked to some hydraulic equipment salespeople and
decided to try the DOT aproved plastic lines. They're designed for truck
air brake systems so they'll take the working pressure and should stand up
to oil as truck air usually contains some oil. My instalation seems to be
leak free but I need to replace the check valves in the pump before I'll be
sure that my problems are over. I'll report my success or failure in the
next week or so. If I don't get it right this time I may just go the same
route as Angus and rip it all out to install aluminum tube and flared
fittings.
I find it rather embarassing to have all these leaks because I've worked
as a plumber and gas pipe fitter so I feel I have the skills to make a
proper instalation but the quality of the materials from Murphy just won't
allow it.
Drew
At 10:41 AM 8/22/2003 EDT, you wrote:
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My floats are murphy 1800's from a kit. I had clear plastic lines
supplied from murphy probably the same ones as you have. I've found that
these lines kink very easily even after I installed them and they were in
use kinks would show up out of the blue. I couldn't get the nylon fittings
to hold pressure and they would loosen after sitting for a while. one day
with the nosewheel facing forwards so the weight of the plane was trying to
retract the gear one of the fittings blew apart. I decided I couldn't trust
this system any longer so I replaced all the nylon fittings with brass and
brass inserts that go inside the end of the hose where the compression
fitting clamps. This didn't work at all because the hose is too soft for
the brass fittings and they cut into the hose when clamped tight. I never
even got to test fly this system because it kept springing leaks while
testing in the hangar. I talked to some hydraulic equipment salespeople and
decided to try the DOT aproved plastic lines. They're designed for truck
air brake systems so they'll take the working pressure and should stand up
to oil as truck air usually contains some oil. My instalation seems to be
leak free but I need to replace the check valves in the pump before I'll be
sure that my problems are over. I'll report my success or failure in the
next week or so. If I don't get it right this time I may just go the same
route as Angus and rip it all out to install aluminum tube and flared
fittings.
I find it rather embarassing to have all these leaks because I've worked
as a plumber and gas pipe fitter so I feel I have the skills to make a
proper instalation but the quality of the materials from Murphy just won't
allow it.
Drew
At 10:41 AM 8/22/2003 EDT, you wrote:
them withHi Drew,
Were your floats pre builds from MAM with the clear hydraulic lines? I'm
assuming you had problems with the lines MAM supplied and you replaced
hydraulic line.DOT approved plastic hydraulic lines. They would not hold pressure? I would
like to hear more.
I have a set of pre builds from MAM I will install this winter and have
considered replacing the clear plastic lines with aircraft quality
Drew DalgleishI have clear plastic on the brake lines and have not had any problems with
it. I like the fact I can see through them.
I did replace one of the forward cylinder lines, as it was kinked because of
a poor installation.
Bruce 357R
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-
Walter Klatt
Float hydraulic lines
Yeah, I read about Drew's problems, and it made me
wonder if there is more than one type of plastic line
that MAM supplies. I did not have any kinking problems
with mine, and they are actually very tough. Of course,
you can't make any sharp bends. I didn't have the
leaking problems he described either. I did have some
trouble with some of the brass fitting joints leaking
initially, as they were very sensitive to how much you
tightened them (can't over tighten or under tighten)
and how straight the joint was. But then I discovered
another type of brass fitting at a local automotive
parts shop (when I had to get some replacements) that
worked much better. No problems at all with the plastic
fittings in the cockpit. Overall though, these problems
were minor, and have had no leaking problems in the two
years flying with them.
The one advantage I do like with the plastic lines is
that you can see the air, and it allows you to
completely remove all air from the system without any
messy bleeding. This is done by lowering and raising
the front of the floats to move the air up to where it
rises far enough to get flushed out.
The only problem I do have is that one side leaks down
a little over time when in the wheels up position. So,
if I forget to pump them up before a water take-off, my
run can be extended a bit, as the rear wheel will drag
in the water a bit. Not sure why, though, as there are
no leaks. Could be the main selector valve leaking, or
maybe one of the cylinders have blow-by. It's been that
way from day one, although, am starting to perceive
that it may be getting worse.
Walter
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wonder if there is more than one type of plastic line
that MAM supplies. I did not have any kinking problems
with mine, and they are actually very tough. Of course,
you can't make any sharp bends. I didn't have the
leaking problems he described either. I did have some
trouble with some of the brass fitting joints leaking
initially, as they were very sensitive to how much you
tightened them (can't over tighten or under tighten)
and how straight the joint was. But then I discovered
another type of brass fitting at a local automotive
parts shop (when I had to get some replacements) that
worked much better. No problems at all with the plastic
fittings in the cockpit. Overall though, these problems
were minor, and have had no leaking problems in the two
years flying with them.
The one advantage I do like with the plastic lines is
that you can see the air, and it allows you to
completely remove all air from the system without any
messy bleeding. This is done by lowering and raising
the front of the floats to move the air up to where it
rises far enough to get flushed out.
The only problem I do have is that one side leaks down
a little over time when in the wheels up position. So,
if I forget to pump them up before a water take-off, my
run can be extended a bit, as the rear wheel will drag
in the water a bit. Not sure why, though, as there are
no leaks. Could be the main selector valve leaking, or
maybe one of the cylinders have blow-by. It's been that
way from day one, although, am starting to perceive
that it may be getting worse.
Walter
cribe.wcx-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:41 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
Drew,
Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear
plastic ones. After I got the
prebuilts home I began to examine them and
found a kinked line on the forward (nose
wheel) cylinder. The brass compression
fitting was facing forward and the line,
coming from the rear, had to make a 220*
turn with a 6" radius to engage the
fitting. The other side was installed the
same way only it had not kinked yet!
I turned the fitting on the forward nose
wheel cylinders to the rear so the
line only had to turn 30* to make the brass fitting!
The brass fittings used on these clear
plastic hydraulic lines have brass
compression fittings like the brakes use.
The only nylon compression fittings are
the tee fittings inside the cabin that split
the lines for the hand pump (not
installed yet). I never thought the lines
and fittings would be a problem
because the pressures necessary to operate
he gear is so low. It sounds like you
are having a different experience. Let me
know how it turns out. If I have to,
I would prefer to replace them now while I'm
in the shop!
I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and
he had replaced all HIS lines with
Aluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and
aircraft hydraulics lines. It looked
impressive, although I wasn't sure if it was
really necessary, but if you see
Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built this
way. Very nice!
How about you Walter? What has been your
experience with the MAM supplied
line and fittings?
Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?
Bruce 357R
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-
Walter Klatt
Float hydraulic lines
I have a question about where you leave the selector
valve after pumping the gear up or down. With mine, I
have been leaving mine in the centre (lock position?).
But from some of the descriptions here, it made me
wonder if some people leave the valve in the up or down
position instead.
Walter
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valve after pumping the gear up or down. With mine, I
have been leaving mine in the centre (lock position?).
But from some of the descriptions here, it made me
wonder if some people leave the valve in the up or down
position instead.
Walter
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:59 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
Since it's now about 4 months from when I
paid for my two sets of prebuilts
and I have yet to recieve any of the back
orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian
Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I
haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt
lines where run.
However, I did build Howard's floats and he
is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have
tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one
brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure
for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only
reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the
outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and
replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.
Just recently, I was seeing the pressure
drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I
pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This
showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was
holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the
piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding
pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
plastic ones. After I got theDrew,
Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clearfound a kinked line on theprebuilts home I began to examine them and
forward (nosefitting was facing forward and thewheel) cylinder. The brass compression
line,turn with a 6" radius to engagecoming from the rear, had to make a 220*
thesame way only it had not kinkedfitting. The other side was installed the
yet!wheel cylinders to the rear soI turned the fitting on the forward nose
thebrass fitting!line only had to turn 30* to make theplastic hydraulic lines have brassThe brass fittings used on these clearThe only nylon compressioncompression fittings like the brakes use.
fittings aresplit the lines for the hand pumpthe tee fittings inside the cabin that
(notand fittings would be a probleminstalled yet). I never thought the lineshe gear is so low. It soundsbecause the pressures necessary to operate
like youknow how it turns out. If I haveare having a different experience. Let me
to,I'm in the shop!I would prefer to replace them now whilehe had replaced all HIS linesI saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and
withaircraft hydraulics lines. ItAluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and
lookedwas really necessary, but if youimpressive, although I wasn't sure if it
seethis way. Very nice!Steve's Rebel the whole plane is builtexperience with the MAM suppliedHow about you Walter? What has been your*--------------------------------------------line and fittings?
Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?
Bruce 357R
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Walter Klatt
Float hydraulic lines
Hmmm, and I've been flying this way for 2 years... OK,
will have to try that.
Walter
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will have to try that.
Walter
cribe.wcx-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 9:28 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
UP or DOWN Walter. Otherwise you lose the
pressure in the lines, when you
select the center position, and this may
explain why you're dragging a
wheel!!
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Float hydraulic lines
the selectorI have a question about where you leaveWith mine, Ivalve after pumping the gear up or down.position?).have been leaving mine in the centre (lockthe up or downBut from some of the descriptions here, it made me
wonder if some people leave the valve inhttp://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subsposition instead.
Walter
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:59 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
Since it's now about 4 months from when I
paid for my two sets of prebuilts
and I have yet to recieve any of the back
orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian
Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I
haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt
lines where run.
However, I did build Howard's floats and he
is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have
tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one
brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure
for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only
reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the
outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and
replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.
Just recently, I was seeing the pressure
drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I
pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This
showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was
holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the
piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding
pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
plastic ones. After I got the found a kinked line on the
forward (nose fitting was facing forward and the
line, turn with a 6" radius to engage
the same way only it had not kinked
yet! wheel cylinders to the rear so
the brass fitting! plastic hydraulic lines have brass The only nylon compression
fittings are split the lines for the hand pump
(not and fittings would be a problem he gear is so low. It sounds
like you know how it turns out. If I have
to, I'm in the shop! he had replaced all HIS lines
with aircraft hydraulics lines. It
looked was really necessary, but if you
see this way. Very nice! experience with the MAM supplied *--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*
cribe.wcx*--------------------------------------------http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htmArchives located atmike.davis@dcsol.comTo contact the list admin, e-mail
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Legeorgen
Float hydraulic lines
Drew,
Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear plastic ones. After I got the
prebuilts home I began to examine them and found a kinked line on the forward (nose
wheel) cylinder. The brass compression fitting was facing forward and the line,
coming from the rear, had to make a 220* turn with a 6" radius to engage the
fitting. The other side was installed the same way only it had not kinked yet!
I turned the fitting on the forward nose wheel cylinders to the rear so the
line only had to turn 30* to make the brass fitting!
The brass fittings used on these clear plastic hydraulic lines have brass
compression fittings like the brakes use. The only nylon compression fittings are
the tee fittings inside the cabin that split the lines for the hand pump (not
installed yet). I never thought the lines and fittings would be a problem
because the pressures necessary to operate he gear is so low. It sounds like you
are having a different experience. Let me know how it turns out. If I have to,
I would prefer to replace them now while I'm in the shop!
I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and he had replaced all HIS lines with
Aluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and aircraft hydraulics lines. It looked
impressive, although I wasn't sure if it was really necessary, but if you see
Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built this way. Very nice!
How about you Walter? What has been your experience with the MAM supplied
line and fittings?
Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?
Bruce 357R
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Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear plastic ones. After I got the
prebuilts home I began to examine them and found a kinked line on the forward (nose
wheel) cylinder. The brass compression fitting was facing forward and the line,
coming from the rear, had to make a 220* turn with a 6" radius to engage the
fitting. The other side was installed the same way only it had not kinked yet!
I turned the fitting on the forward nose wheel cylinders to the rear so the
line only had to turn 30* to make the brass fitting!
The brass fittings used on these clear plastic hydraulic lines have brass
compression fittings like the brakes use. The only nylon compression fittings are
the tee fittings inside the cabin that split the lines for the hand pump (not
installed yet). I never thought the lines and fittings would be a problem
because the pressures necessary to operate he gear is so low. It sounds like you
are having a different experience. Let me know how it turns out. If I have to,
I would prefer to replace them now while I'm in the shop!
I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and he had replaced all HIS lines with
Aluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and aircraft hydraulics lines. It looked
impressive, although I wasn't sure if it was really necessary, but if you see
Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built this way. Very nice!
How about you Walter? What has been your experience with the MAM supplied
line and fittings?
Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?
Bruce 357R
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Float hydraulic lines
Since it's now about 4 months from when I paid for my two sets of prebuilts
and I have yet to recieve any of the back orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt lines where run.
However, I did build Howard's floats and he is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.
Just recently, I was seeing the pressure drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
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and I have yet to recieve any of the back orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt lines where run.
However, I did build Howard's floats and he is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.
Just recently, I was seeing the pressure drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
forward (noseDrew,
Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clear plastic ones. After I got the
prebuilts home I began to examine them and found a kinked line on the
line,wheel) cylinder. The brass compression fitting was facing forward and the
thecoming from the rear, had to make a 220* turn with a 6" radius to engage
yet!fitting. The other side was installed the same way only it had not kinked
theI turned the fitting on the forward nose wheel cylinders to the rear so
fittings areline only had to turn 30* to make the brass fitting!
The brass fittings used on these clear plastic hydraulic lines have brass
compression fittings like the brakes use. The only nylon compression
(notthe tee fittings inside the cabin that split the lines for the hand pump
like youinstalled yet). I never thought the lines and fittings would be a problem
because the pressures necessary to operate he gear is so low. It sounds
to,are having a different experience. Let me know how it turns out. If I have
withI would prefer to replace them now while I'm in the shop!
I saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and he had replaced all HIS lines
lookedAluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and aircraft hydraulics lines. It
seeimpressive, although I wasn't sure if it was really necessary, but if you
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*Steve's Rebel the whole plane is built this way. Very nice!
How about you Walter? What has been your experience with the MAM supplied
line and fittings?
Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?
Bruce 357R
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Wayne G. O'Shea
Float hydraulic lines
UP or DOWN Walter. Otherwise you lose the pressure in the lines, when you
select the center position, and this may explain why you're dragging a
wheel!!
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Float hydraulic lines
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select the center position, and this may explain why you're dragging a
wheel!!
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Klatt" <walter.klatt@shaw.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 12:29 PM
Subject: RE: Float hydraulic lines
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*I have a question about where you leave the selector
valve after pumping the gear up or down. With mine, I
have been leaving mine in the centre (lock position?).
But from some of the descriptions here, it made me
wonder if some people leave the valve in the up or down
position instead.
Walter
http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 8:59 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
Since it's now about 4 months from when I
paid for my two sets of prebuilts
and I have yet to recieve any of the back
orders that would finish an
installation or confirmation from Brian
Godden that tubing and other misc
supply quanities are wrong......... I
haven't bothered to finish uncrating
them to have a good look at how the prebuilt
lines where run.
However, I did build Howard's floats and he
is on his 6th summer on the
original MAM supplied plastic lines. I have
tightened a couple of the
plastic tees slightly over the years and one
brass cylinder fitting, but
other than that his system holds pressure
for WEEKS. On FOKM, that Bob
refers to as "his would bleed down" the only
reason for this I found was
that the pump base was cracked between the
outlet port threads and the
mounting bolt hole. After I found this and
replaced the pump with a new one
the pressure stayed up for days.
Just recently, I was seeing the pressure
drop off fairly quickly in FOKM and
couldn't find any leaks. I then found if I
pulled the pump handle fully up
the pressure would stay for days again. This
showed that the outlet check
valve was leaking (and the inlet valve was
holding) and the pressure was
bleeding back into the pump and lifting the
piston. Must have been a piece
of dirt or something as it is now holding
pressure again no matter where the
handle is left.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <Legeorgen@aol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
plastic ones. After I got theDrew,
Yes, my hydraulic lines are MAM's clearfound a kinked line on theprebuilts home I began to examine them and
forward (nosefitting was facing forward and thewheel) cylinder. The brass compression
line,turn with a 6" radius to engagecoming from the rear, had to make a 220*
thesame way only it had not kinkedfitting. The other side was installed the
yet!wheel cylinders to the rear soI turned the fitting on the forward nose
thebrass fitting!line only had to turn 30* to make theplastic hydraulic lines have brassThe brass fittings used on these clearThe only nylon compressioncompression fittings like the brakes use.
fittings aresplit the lines for the hand pumpthe tee fittings inside the cabin that
(notand fittings would be a probleminstalled yet). I never thought the lineshe gear is so low. It soundsbecause the pressures necessary to operate
like youknow how it turns out. If I haveare having a different experience. Let me
to,I'm in the shop!I would prefer to replace them now whilehe had replaced all HIS linesI saw Steve Sloan's Rebel at Arlington and
withaircraft hydraulics lines. ItAluminum flared, bulkhead fittings and
lookedwas really necessary, but if youimpressive, although I wasn't sure if it
seethis way. Very nice!Steve's Rebel the whole plane is builtexperience with the MAM suppliedHow about you Walter? What has been your*--------------------------------------------line and fittings?
Wayne? Bobp? Care to weigh in hear?
Bruce 357R
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Al & Deb Paxhia
Float hydraulic lines
Drew,
I had a internal leak in one of the hyd wheel cylinders. It was bypassing
the within the cylinder. The ram was bent and the o-ring would not seal in
the wheel down position. The problem would not show with the airplane on
jacks, only when the wheels were on the ground.
To find the problem I put a pressure gage on the system and started
isolating each component of the system. Slow process, first capped off the
pump at the output, then went to the floats one cylinder at a time. All day
job, it turned out to be the last thing tested.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
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I had a internal leak in one of the hyd wheel cylinders. It was bypassing
the within the cylinder. The ram was bent and the o-ring would not seal in
the wheel down position. The problem would not show with the airplane on
jacks, only when the wheels were on the ground.
To find the problem I put a pressure gage on the system and started
isolating each component of the system. Slow process, first capped off the
pump at the output, then went to the floats one cylinder at a time. All day
job, it turned out to be the last thing tested.
Al
----- Original Message -----
From: "Drew Dalgleish" <drewjan@cabletv.on.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 7:08 PM
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
locallyWell I've changed all my hydraulic lines and the check valves on the pump.
In the up position my system holds pressure for about 1/2hr. In the down
position the pressure bleeds off in a couple minutes. I can't find any
leaks so I'm wondering now if I have an internal leak in the selector
valve. I think I can test it by removing the line and putting a cap on the
selector and seeing if it holds pressure or not.
The lines that I removed are 3 different types one is clearer and harder
while the other is a little softer and cloudier. I bought some more
*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*because not enough was included with the kit. I also had to buy hose for
brake lines. neither has any markings on it. Both types have gone quite
stiff. Robin offered to send new check valves but I told him not to bother
as I didn't want to wait.
Drew Dalgleish
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Drew Dalgleish
Float hydraulic lines
Well I've changed all my hydraulic lines and the check valves on the pump.
In the up position my system holds pressure for about 1/2hr. In the down
position the pressure bleeds off in a couple minutes. I can't find any
leaks so I'm wondering now if I have an internal leak in the selector
valve. I think I can test it by removing the line and putting a cap on the
selector and seeing if it holds pressure or not.
The lines that I removed are 3 different types one is clearer and harder
while the other is a little softer and cloudier. I bought some more locally
because not enough was included with the kit. I also had to buy hose for
brake lines. neither has any markings on it. Both types have gone quite
stiff. Robin offered to send new check valves but I told him not to bother
as I didn't want to wait.
Drew Dalgleish
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In the up position my system holds pressure for about 1/2hr. In the down
position the pressure bleeds off in a couple minutes. I can't find any
leaks so I'm wondering now if I have an internal leak in the selector
valve. I think I can test it by removing the line and putting a cap on the
selector and seeing if it holds pressure or not.
The lines that I removed are 3 different types one is clearer and harder
while the other is a little softer and cloudier. I bought some more locally
because not enough was included with the kit. I also had to buy hose for
brake lines. neither has any markings on it. Both types have gone quite
stiff. Robin offered to send new check valves but I told him not to bother
as I didn't want to wait.
Drew Dalgleish
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Legeorgen
Float hydraulic lines
Drew,
Bummer! :O( That has to be frustrating. Keep us informed. The Good news is,
you now have narrowed down the problem... and have better Hydraulic lines too!
Bruce 357R
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Bummer! :O( That has to be frustrating. Keep us informed. The Good news is,
you now have narrowed down the problem... and have better Hydraulic lines too!
Bruce 357R
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Drew Dalgleish
Float hydraulic lines
At 09:38 PM 8/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:
problem wouldn't be in the cylinder itself. Now I've got something else to
check :(
Drew Dalgleish
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Thanks For that hint Al. I was assuming that if it only leaks one way theDrew,
I had a internal leak in one of the hyd wheel cylinders. It was bypassing
the within the cylinder. The ram was bent and the o-ring would not seal in
the wheel down position. The problem would not show with the airplane on
jacks, only when the wheels were on the ground.
To find the problem I put a pressure gage on the system and started
isolating each component of the system. Slow process, first capped off the
pump at the output, then went to the floats one cylinder at a time. All day
job, it turned out to be the last thing tested.
Al
problem wouldn't be in the cylinder itself. Now I've got something else to
check :(
Drew Dalgleish
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Walter Klatt
Float hydraulic lines
Drew, this probably won't make you feel any better, but
I did some testing these last couple of days with my
floats regarding holding pressure, and found that mine
don't hold pressure more than a few seconds gear up or
down, and it doesn't matter whether the selector lever
is in the lock (middle) or up and down position. So I
guess I have this problem, too.
It doesn't seem to have any effect when gear down, as
the mains automatically lock, with the over centre
position on the ground. With the front wheels I install
little plastic locks when on the ground for pulling it
into the hangar. Otherwise they will try to retract
when being pulled backwards. This is not a problem and
I can live with that.
With gear up, I do have to remember to pump up just
before take-off on water, or my right main wheel drags
slightly and my take-off run will be extended. I do
consider this an annoyance.
Anyway, I have been flying this way for 2 years, so
it's not the end of the world if your hydraulics don't
hold pressure. One of these winters, I will take the
floats off, and do a full inspection and try to fix it.
For now, it's not enough of a problem to warrant any
downtime for me.
Let us know what you find, though, and maybe it will
help us get ours fixed more quickly.
Walter
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I did some testing these last couple of days with my
floats regarding holding pressure, and found that mine
don't hold pressure more than a few seconds gear up or
down, and it doesn't matter whether the selector lever
is in the lock (middle) or up and down position. So I
guess I have this problem, too.
It doesn't seem to have any effect when gear down, as
the mains automatically lock, with the over centre
position on the ground. With the front wheels I install
little plastic locks when on the ground for pulling it
into the hangar. Otherwise they will try to retract
when being pulled backwards. This is not a problem and
I can live with that.
With gear up, I do have to remember to pump up just
before take-off on water, or my right main wheel drags
slightly and my take-off run will be extended. I do
consider this an annoyance.
Anyway, I have been flying this way for 2 years, so
it's not the end of the world if your hydraulics don't
hold pressure. One of these winters, I will take the
floats off, and do a full inspection and try to fix it.
For now, it's not enough of a problem to warrant any
downtime for me.
Let us know what you find, though, and maybe it will
help us get ours fixed more quickly.
Walter
cribe.wcx-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 12:57 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Float hydraulic lines
At 09:38 PM 8/24/2003 -0700, you wrote:wheel cylinders. It was bypassingDrew,
I had a internal leak in one of the hydand the o-ring would not seal inthe within the cylinder. The ram was bentnot show with the airplane onthe wheel down position. The problem wouldon the system and startedjacks, only when the wheels were on the ground.
To find the problem I put a pressure gageSlow process, first capped off theisolating each component of the system.one cylinder at a time. All daypump at the output, then went to the floatsThanks For that hint Al. I was assuming thatjob, it turned out to be the last thing tested.
Al
if it only leaks one way the
problem wouldn't be in the cylinder itself.
Now I've got something else to
check :(
Drew Dalgleish
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Rebflyer
Float hydraulic lines
Hi all,
I'd like to offer my .02 on the float line pressures also. I have the MAM plastic lines and they do not leak--- now. My plumbing skills suck, I think it's just bad karma. I look to see where it leaks not if. As far as the pressures, I'll get a 60lb spike as I am pumping, and when I reach the end of the cycle I bump it to about 100 lbs. In the down position it will leak down in about 10 min. In the up position it will hold for about 1hr.
I do agree with Walter on the pressure concerns in that if you have 2lbs of pressure to keep the mains over center, that's all you need. And if you don't bounce it on landing on the ground,like I seem to do every other time or so, you may not even need that! All the forces are in the direction to keep things deployed.
I also find the dropping of pressures annoying when you are pulling the aircraft back into the hanger, and I too have locks I drop in to stop the nose from bowing to me. I do plan on trying to stop the pressure drop, but I'm enjoying the flying to much to do that now.
I guess I feel that if you're system is not loosing fluid, and the pressures necessary to move the gear are minimal, go fly and get in the habit of bumping the handle on short final to be sure. IMHO Curt
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I'd like to offer my .02 on the float line pressures also. I have the MAM plastic lines and they do not leak--- now. My plumbing skills suck, I think it's just bad karma. I look to see where it leaks not if. As far as the pressures, I'll get a 60lb spike as I am pumping, and when I reach the end of the cycle I bump it to about 100 lbs. In the down position it will leak down in about 10 min. In the up position it will hold for about 1hr.
I do agree with Walter on the pressure concerns in that if you have 2lbs of pressure to keep the mains over center, that's all you need. And if you don't bounce it on landing on the ground,like I seem to do every other time or so, you may not even need that! All the forces are in the direction to keep things deployed.
I also find the dropping of pressures annoying when you are pulling the aircraft back into the hanger, and I too have locks I drop in to stop the nose from bowing to me. I do plan on trying to stop the pressure drop, but I'm enjoying the flying to much to do that now.
I guess I feel that if you're system is not loosing fluid, and the pressures necessary to move the gear are minimal, go fly and get in the habit of bumping the handle on short final to be sure. IMHO Curt
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Drew Dalgleish
Float hydraulic lines
At 06:41 PM 8/31/2003 -0700, you wrote:
I'm at the point now where I'm just going to fly the plane and worry about
my hydraulic problems after I have my plane on wheels for the winter. I can
get my plane into the hangar without the nosewheels folding up if I pump up
the system just before I get out of the plane then open the door and push
it in without delay. I have to then pull it ahead a bit so the nosewheels
spin back into trailing position and will remain locked in place.
Drew Dalgleish
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Thanks for the info Walter.Drew, this probably won't make you feel any better, but
I did some testing these last couple of days with my
floats regarding holding pressure, and found that mine
don't hold pressure more than a few seconds gear up or
down, and it doesn't matter whether the selector lever
is in the lock (middle) or up and down position. So I
guess I have this problem, too.
It doesn't seem to have any effect when gear down, as
the mains automatically lock, with the over centre
position on the ground. With the front wheels I install
little plastic locks when on the ground for pulling it
into the hangar. Otherwise they will try to retract
when being pulled backwards. This is not a problem and
I can live with that.
With gear up, I do have to remember to pump up just
before take-off on water, or my right main wheel drags
slightly and my take-off run will be extended. I do
consider this an annoyance.
Anyway, I have been flying this way for 2 years, so
it's not the end of the world if your hydraulics don't
hold pressure. One of these winters, I will take the
floats off, and do a full inspection and try to fix it.
For now, it's not enough of a problem to warrant any
downtime for me.
Let us know what you find, though, and maybe it will
help us get ours fixed more quickly.
Walter
I'm at the point now where I'm just going to fly the plane and worry about
my hydraulic problems after I have my plane on wheels for the winter. I can
get my plane into the hangar without the nosewheels folding up if I pump up
the system just before I get out of the plane then open the door and push
it in without delay. I have to then pull it ahead a bit so the nosewheels
spin back into trailing position and will remain locked in place.
Drew Dalgleish
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