The fun of temps

[Rebflyer]

Hi all, just thought I'd finally drop a line to all on the fun and games I've been having.
I have had similar problems to Walter as far as oil temps are concerned, and as we are both running very similar setups, 0-320's with 150hp conical mnts. and Bobp's beloved speed cowl. I am still running the warp drive prop with a dampner. I've watched carefully along with trying stuff of my own, so here goes.
When on the wheels the oil temp was not a concern, cht's were. Opening the bottom of the cowl up and cleaning up the exit around the firewall flange, adding a 1" lip to the front/ bottom of the opening,and a learning curve on the readings you want from a thermocouple under the sparkplug cured that.(See the archives for those details.
Once I began the float flying, I began to have to pay close attention to the oil temps. It actually was kind of a slow increase, not a " you did this and this happened" sort of thing. I really noticed it last year on the way to and back from the big "OSH" last year, and it was evident on the long climb for altitude over the big water. It was a very hot time last year, and I figured that had an impact. Now this year. Most of my flying is vey short hops, lake to lake for sunset, stopping to harrass friends and the like. Lake ops were fine. I began to notice if I cruised at 2450rpm for more than 1/2 hr the temps would begin to rise. Were talking in the 215f range, and even with slowing rpm's and running the mix fat it would not cool. A couple of times i streched my stops to allow for some cooling before I departed. Doing multiple tkof's and landings didn't seem to cause the temp to rise as much but it would rise.
So I went and tried somthing different. My longeze buddies have found a bilge blower that they were using to try and move heat up to ther toes. Nice 3" dia and explosion proof. I took me about 45 min to adapt it to my setup. The result was I had no problems with short hops and on the lake it was never above the 190f it had been on the wheels. So I took it for a nice long ride of about 1.5hr with a long climb. The result? The long climb temps were worse! Now do give me a little credit, I had some suspisions that the fan blades and motor could block the tube, but what the heck it is and experimental.
Now during the installation I had fired up the fan on the ground and I noticed that I really got alot of air bleeding by the shroud to cooler space and I had siliconed the gaps shut then, stopping the blow by. I really didn't think it was that much but it was to much none the less.
So with those results the creative juices began to go(read I was forgetting to keep it simple). Maybe a shroud to get the airflow closer to the cowl outlet. Maybe with a cowl flap! Maybe I need to open the cowl more. and so on. Enough of the long winded speach.
I removed the blower. I found a little better routing for the scat tube. And I took some advice and pulled the vernotherm for checking. Seems the eze's have been having the same oil temp problems on long climbs and found that to be a culprit. Well I did find some carbon junk around the vernotherm and some signs of it not seating properly, so I cleaned it very well and reinstalled it, figuring I'd get the right poop on dimensions if the problem persisted. I am not running an oil filter YET, but I will be soon although I now feel one should remove the vernotherm and clean it with the oil change too.
Results? well, the air temps have been cooler here,75f or so, but my first flight had the temps at 175f! Barley a budge on a 1/2 hr climb! Almost to cool! I think I'm looking forward to a much warmer day to give it a try! That will probably be on the way to OSH again!
Theory? Keep the scat tube arch as clean and smooth as possible. Close all holes and gaps around the shroud to cooler. Make sure your vernotherm is operating correctly and completly. KEEP IT SIMPLE!
Well that's my disortation for now. Next time it will be on the STOL kit. Hope this was fun reading, KEEP AT It,it is worth it! Curt N97MR



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[klehman]

Just a nervous nanny caution for anyone not familiar with these
aftermarket oil filter relocation kits. You may wish to check that the
threaded nipple that the filter screws onto is long enough. Some do not
engage the filter and/or the aluminum casting with enough threads to be
safe. Some filter threads are recessed a fair bit from the gasket so lay
a straight edge across the filter mount base and also across the filter
gasket to see what you will see...
Ken


snip

I have an oil filter installed in line with the oil cooler. Just go to
your local VW specialty shop and get an oil filter bracket for a bug. The
filter holds almost a litre of oil so the increased capacity will help too.
Drew Dalgleish

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[Walter Klatt]

Well, I certainly put mine to the test this last week,
as I was flying in a lot of hot weather (90 F plus) and
long hot climbs. When flying with the Ramblers, I
noticed that even BobP on his wheel Rebel had to step
climb a few times because of over heating, where I
could keep going up. I think that lexan upper lip on my
left inlet helped that, as I noticed that my hottest
CHT goes up to about 445 or so, and no higher, even
when it is really hot out. Before, I used to always
have to step climb which was a real nuisance. My cruise
at lower altitudes in hot weather is still a little
high, though, around 400 and sometimes as high as about
420 on higher power settings.

I have never had a problem with oil temps. My cooler is
mounted on the baffle and I have it shrouded on the
back to slow air flow. I have tabs which I bend on the
top and bottom, which I can adjust on the ground
through my oil filler door, depending on how hot it is
outside. I have it adjusted now so that my hottest long
climb doesn't go over 225, and cruise is 190 - 200. At
very high altitudes (9000 plus), it was down to 180,
though. In winter, I also tape half the opening shut on
the front side.

I don't have a vernotherm or oil filter on mine.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Drew Dalgleish
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 9:17 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: The fun of temps


At 11:11 PM 7/20/2003 -0400, you wrote:

Hi all, just thought I'd finally drop a

line to all on the fun and games
I've been having.

I have had similar problems to Walter

as far as oil temps are
concerned, and as we are both running very
similar setups, 0-320's with
150hp conical mnts. and Bobp's beloved speed
cowl. I am still running the
warp drive prop with a dampner. I've watched
carefully along with trying
stuff of my own, so here goes.

When on the wheels the oil temp was

not a concern, cht's were.
Opening the bottom of the cowl up and
cleaning up the exit around the
firewall flange, adding a 1" lip to the
front/ bottom of the opening,and a
learning curve on the readings you want from
a thermocouple under the
sparkplug cured that.(See the archives for
those details.

Once I began the float flying, I began

to have to pay close attention
to the oil temps. It actually was kind of a
slow increase, not a " you did
this and this happened" sort of thing. I
really noticed it last year on the
way to and back from the big "OSH" last
year, and it was evident on the
long climb for altitude over the big water.
It was a very hot time last
year, and I figured that had an impact. Now
this year. Most of my flying is
vey short hops, lake to lake for sunset,
stopping to harrass friends and
the like. Lake ops were fine. I began to
notice if I cruised at 2450rpm for
more than 1/2 hr the temps would begin to
rise. Were talking in the 215f
range, and even with slowing rpm's and
running the mix fat it would not
cool. A couple of times i streched my stops
to allow for some cooling
before I departed. Doing multiple tkof's and
landings didn't seem to cause
the temp to rise as much but it would rise.

So I went and tried somthing different.

My longeze buddies have found a
bilge blower that they were using to try and
move heat up to ther toes.
Nice 3" dia and explosion proof. I took me
about 45 min to adapt it to my
setup. The result was I had no problems with
short hops and on the lake it
was never above the 190f it had been on the
wheels. So I took it for a nice
long ride of about 1.5hr with a long climb.
The result? The long climb
temps were worse! Now do give me a little
credit, I had some suspisions
that the fan blades and motor could block
the tube, but what the heck it is
and experimental.

Now during the installation I had fired

up the fan on the ground and I
noticed that I really got alot of air
bleeding by the shroud to cooler
space and I had siliconed the gaps shut
then, stopping the blow by. I
really didn't think it was that much but it
was to much none the less.

So with those results the creative

juices began to go(read I was
forgetting to keep it simple). Maybe a
shroud to get the airflow closer to
the cowl outlet. Maybe with a cowl flap!
Maybe I need to open the cowl
more. and so on. Enough of the long winded speach.

I removed the blower. I found a little

better routing for the scat
tube. And I took some advice and pulled the
vernotherm for checking. Seems
the eze's have been having the same oil temp
problems on long climbs and
found that to be a culprit. Well I did find
some carbon junk around the
vernotherm and some signs of it not seating
properly, so I cleaned it very
well and reinstalled it, figuring I'd get
the right poop on dimensions if
the problem persisted. I am not running an
oil filter YET, but I will be
soon although I now feel one should remove
the vernotherm and clean it
with the oil change too.

Results? well, the air temps have been

cooler here,75f or so, but my
first flight had the temps at 175f! Barley a
budge on a 1/2 hr climb!
Almost to cool! I think I'm looking forward
to a much warmer day to give it
a try! That will probably be on the way to
OSH again!

Theory? Keep the scat tube arch as clean

and smooth as possible. Close
all holes and gaps around the shroud to
cooler. Make sure your vernotherm
is operating correctly and completly. KEEP
IT SIMPLE!

Well that's my disortation for now. Next

time it will be on the STOL
kit. Hope this was fun reading, KEEP AT
It,it is worth it! Curt N97MR


Hi Curt
I had similar problems with my oil temps
until one of the local mechanics
told me about the experiments they'd done on
a pitts special. The only oil
cooler location that worked for them was to
mount directly to the rear
baffle. I mounted my undersized antique
brass cooler from a ? in the same
place and ended up with acceptable temps
while on wheels. I also wrapped my
exhaust with ceramic header tape which also
lowered my oil temp. When I
mounted my plane on floats I changed the oil
cooler to a proper sized one
and now even on the hottest days of the year
the highest I've seen is 185
degrees.
I have an oil filter installed in line
with the oil cooler. Just go to
your local VW specialty shop and get an oil
filter bracket for a bug. The
filter holds almost a litre of oil so the
increased capacity will help too.
Drew Dalgleish




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[Rebflyer]

Hi Walt,
I'm pretty close on the numbers you stated, it's just I'm dealing with
oil temp's. Cht's are great. They run in the 390 range. I did install my oil
cooler on the co-pilot side firewall, and after flying in yesterdays 88f and
humid, the temps did climb to about 220f. I'm pretty well convinced that I need to
open the cowl up a little more below it. I also talked to a guy yesterday
that's flying a Laser (momoplane areobatic) and he was having oil temp problems
also. He dropped 15 degree by changing the oil lines from -8 to -10 lines. I'm
still looking at the stuff in stuff out side of it the most.
On another note, I'm envious of the flying time you're getting! My long
trip will be to OSH, and that's only about 3.5 to get there. Still though , I
dropped into a lake last night and talked to a guy in a beautiful old wood boat
then landed at home as the sun was setting. It was about .7 of flying and
just great. I'm sitting here this am watching the plane bob in the water, and
thinking about getting out of here before the hydroplane races begin. Go fast,
turn left. Sorry, more than once around and I just don't get it. :)
Looking forward to seeing those who can make it at OSH. I'm still debating
where to park. Amphib or seaplane base. These decesions are such great fun!
A side note, the SPA cornroast is thursday eve too! Curt N97MR.



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