Pictures worth a thousand words

[rebel]

All,
Everybody, thanks for all of those pictures.
On the picture with the additional bolts on the rebel stab attach bracket, also
notice that the nico sleeves have only 2 of the required three crimps. That
picture really gives meaning to that experimental warning label that you are
required to place on the a/c for all to read.
Good luck you'll need it,
Rick D.
Rebel S/N 404R
(gave up predicting when it will fly)





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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Good eyes Rick!

Don't worry that will all be fixed, as well as the rest of the >LONG< list,
before it's resold! There is enough slack in the elevator cables that I
think I can cut the cable off and wrap it around the bolt again with a new
Nico!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:12 AM
Subject: Pictures worth a thousand words

All,
Everybody, thanks for all of those pictures.
On the picture with the additional bolts on the rebel stab attach bracket,

also

notice that the nico sleeves have only 2 of the required three crimps.

That

picture really gives meaning to that experimental warning label that you

are

required to place on the a/c for all to read.
Good luck you'll need it,
Rick D.
Rebel S/N 404R
(gave up predicting when it will fly)

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[rebel]

Wayne,

I was looking at your Rebel Float Install photos and had a question pop into
my head.

In your humble opinion, do you install springs in line with the water rudder
steering cables to minimize any impact forces being transferred from the
water rudder cables to the attach point of the rudder control horn on the
aircrafts rudder?

I've heard both sides of the story. Some say the springs reduce the water
rudder effectivness, and others like the springs for shock dissipation.

Right now I have springs in line on my Montanna 3500's and I am trying to
determine if I am getting full throw on my water rudders, or if the in line
springs are decreasing the water rudder effectivness.

Thanks for your thoughts (or anyone else's with an opinion).

Chris Gill
SR#025 N4965
Anchorage, AK


On 6/5/2003 10:04 PM, OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:03:06 -0800 remote from
dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:03:06 -0800
-> Received: from frodo.csolve.net ([207.164.81.3]) EHLO=frodo.csolve.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 171050562; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:03:05 -0800
-> Received: from 209.226.38.237.nas7.csolve.net ([209.226.38.237]
helo=celeron266a)
-> by frodo.csolve.net with smtp (Exim 4.10)
-> id 19NBR9-0000cN-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:02:48 -0400
-> Message-ID: <002101c329d0$51deacf0$e401910a@celeron266a>
-> From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> References: <1054642376@dcsol.com>
-> Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words
-> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:01:58 -0400
-> Organization: O'Shea's Irish Field Aviation
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
-> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
->
-> Good eyes Rick!
->
-> Don't worry that will all be fixed, as well as the rest of the >LONG< list,
-> before it's resold! There is enough slack in the elevator cables that I
-> think I can cut the cable off and wrap it around the bolt again with a new
-> Nico!!
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:12 AM
-> Subject: Pictures worth a thousand words
->
->
-> > All,
-> > Everybody, thanks for all of those pictures.
-> > On the picture with the additional bolts on the rebel stab attach
bracket,
-> also
-> > notice that the nico sleeves have only 2 of the required three crimps.
-> That
-> > picture really gives meaning to that experimental warning label that you
-> are
-> > required to place on the a/c for all to read.
-> > Good luck you'll need it,
-> > Rick D.
-> > Rebel S/N 404R
-> > (gave up predicting when it will fly)
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
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-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >
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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->




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[Walter Klatt]

I think Wayne covered the main reasons for the springs.
I do know that you want them fairly tight or you will
lose some rudder effectiveness in certain situations. I
found this out last year when turning up to a dock
against a fairly strong tide. They will flatten out
somewhat in a strong current.

On a side note, I just got back from a tour of the
Comox Air Force base out here. They flew us over on a
Buffalo from Vancouver, and got to see their latest
toys. They had some F18's there but wouldn't let us
near them today. Apparently they are armed and still in
a fairly high state of alert. Got a ride in an Aurora,
though, and they took us for a 200 foot altitude run
through Desolation Sound at 300 mph and doing up to 60
degree banks back and forth as they flew between the
mountains. I was in the cockpit for a good portion of
this time, and they sure impressed the hell out of me.
Again, this was at 200 feet off the water. However, I
found out afterwards they had it on altitude hold while
they were down there, but my respect was still up
there. The only disconcerting item for me is that this
is a popular float plane playground as well, and I sure
wouldn't want to meet up with them when they are
playing like that. They did say they also monitor 123.2
when they do that, but still...

Also, got a full tour and briefing of the Search And
Rescue operations, and have to say, it is very
comforting to know who will be looking for you if you
ever need help. Again, I was very impressed with these
guys and their equipment. However, they don't like it
when your ELT goes off on a hard landing or when you
are working in your hangar. Apparently 90% of ELT
alarms are false. There was one this morning while we
were there. An ELT went off in a hangar in Kamloops,
which is about 300 miles inland, and they launched a
full search operation before they pinpointed it.

Anyway, it was definitely a day to remember.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Wayne G. O'Shea
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 4:43 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words


Chris,

There are members on here with lots more
float experience than me that's for
sure. The spring is there for hitting stuff
I'm sure, but it is also for
making up for any periods of movement in the
system that may be a longer or
shorter route for the cables. If you didn't
have the springs I am sure that
when the water rudders pivot that in the
movement arc somewhere the distance
is increasing and decreasing a bit (although
a very small amount). You
wouldn't be able to rig the cables tight
without a spring to make sure this
wasn't an issue with over stressing things
when the distance changes.

If you move your air rudder full and still
have available water rudder
travel left, why not bolt a rudder bar to
the existing tail wheel steering
horn (on the bottom of the rudder) like you
see on most Pipers on floats, to
increase the cable movement in each
direction to the water rudders to make
use of everything you have available on the
back of those Pretty floats from
Keith!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words

Wayne,

I was looking at your Rebel Float Install

photos and had a question pop
into

my head.

In your humble opinion, do you install

springs in line with the water
rudder

steering cables to minimize any impact

forces being transferred from the

water rudder cables to the attach point of

the rudder control horn on the

aircrafts rudder?

I've heard both sides of the story. Some

say the springs reduce the water

rudder effectivness, and others like the

springs for shock dissipation.

Right now I have springs in line on my

Montanna 3500's and I am trying to

determine if I am getting full throw on my

water rudders, or if the in
line

springs are decreasing the water rudder

effectivness.

Thanks for your thoughts (or anyone else's

with an opinion).

Chris Gill
SR#025 N4965
Anchorage, AK


On 6/5/2003 10:04 PM,

OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> Tue, 03

Jun 2003 05:03:06 -0800 remote
from

dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP

Router v5.6.450.61)

-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com;

Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:03:06 -0800

-> Received: from frodo.csolve.net

([207.164.81.3]) EHLO=frodo.csolve.net

-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP

v5.6.450.61) with SMTP

-> id 171050562; Tue, 03 Jun

2003 05:03:05 -0800

-> Received: from

209.226.38.237.nas7.csolve.net ([209.226.38.237]

helo=celeron266a)
-> by frodo.csolve.net with smtp (Exim 4.10)
-> id 19NBR9-0000cN-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Tue, 03

Jun 2003 09:02:48 -0400

-> Message-ID:

<002101c329d0$51deacf0$e401910a@celeron266a>

-> From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> References: <1054642376@dcsol.com>
-> Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words
-> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:01:58 -0400
-> Organization: O'Shea's Irish Field Aviation
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="iso-8859-1"

-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-> X-Priority: 3
-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express

5.50.4522.1200

-> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft

MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200

->
-> Good eyes Rick!
->
-> Don't worry that will all be fixed, as

well as the rest of the >LONG<
list,

-> before it's resold! There is enough

slack in the elevator cables that I

-> think I can cut the cable off and wrap

it around the bolt again with a
new

-> Nico!!
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:12 AM
-> Subject: Pictures worth a thousand words
->
->
-> > All,
-> > Everybody, thanks for all of

those pictures.

-> > On the picture with the additional

bolts on the rebel stab attach

bracket,
-> also
-> > notice that the nico sleeves have

only 2 of the required three
crimps.

-> That
-> > picture really gives meaning to that

experimental warning label that
you

-> are
-> > required to place on the a/c for all to read.
-> > Good luck you'll need it,
-> > Rick D.
-> > Rebel S/N 404R
-> > (gave up predicting when it will fly)
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

*--------------------------------------------
-----------------------------*

-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> >

http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subs

cribe.wcx

-> > Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail

mike.davis@dcsol.com

-> >
->

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-------------------*

-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Chris,

There are members on here with lots more float experience than me that's for
sure. The spring is there for hitting stuff I'm sure, but it is also for
making up for any periods of movement in the system that may be a longer or
shorter route for the cables. If you didn't have the springs I am sure that
when the water rudders pivot that in the movement arc somewhere the distance
is increasing and decreasing a bit (although a very small amount). You
wouldn't be able to rig the cables tight without a spring to make sure this
wasn't an issue with over stressing things when the distance changes.

If you move your air rudder full and still have available water rudder
travel left, why not bolt a rudder bar to the existing tail wheel steering
horn (on the bottom of the rudder) like you see on most Pipers on floats, to
increase the cable movement in each direction to the water rudders to make
use of everything you have available on the back of those Pretty floats from
Keith!!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 2:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words

Wayne,

I was looking at your Rebel Float Install photos and had a question pop

into

my head.

In your humble opinion, do you install springs in line with the water

rudder

steering cables to minimize any impact forces being transferred from the
water rudder cables to the attach point of the rudder control horn on the
aircrafts rudder?

I've heard both sides of the story. Some say the springs reduce the water
rudder effectivness, and others like the springs for shock dissipation.

Right now I have springs in line on my Montanna 3500's and I am trying to
determine if I am getting full throw on my water rudders, or if the in

line

springs are decreasing the water rudder effectivness.

Thanks for your thoughts (or anyone else's with an opinion).

Chris Gill
SR#025 N4965
Anchorage, AK


On 6/5/2003 10:04 PM, OIFA@IRISHFIELD.ON.CA wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> From <oifa@irishfield.on.ca> Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:03:06 -0800 remote

from

dcsol.com
-> Received: by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP Router v5.6.450.61)
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:03:06 -0800
-> Received: from frodo.csolve.net ([207.164.81.3]) EHLO=frodo.csolve.net
-> by dcsol.com (Wildcat! SMTP v5.6.450.61) with SMTP
-> id 171050562; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 05:03:05 -0800
-> Received: from 209.226.38.237.nas7.csolve.net ([209.226.38.237]
helo=celeron266a)
-> by frodo.csolve.net with smtp (Exim 4.10)
-> id 19NBR9-0000cN-00
-> for murphy-rebel@dcsol.com; Tue, 03 Jun 2003 09:02:48 -0400
-> Message-ID: <002101c329d0$51deacf0$e401910a@celeron266a>
-> From: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> References: <1054642376@dcsol.com>
-> Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words
-> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2003 09:01:58 -0400
-> Organization: O'Shea's Irish Field Aviation
-> X-Orig-MIME-Version: 1.0
-> X-Orig-Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
-> X-Orig-Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
-> X-Priority: 3
-> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
-> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
-> X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
->
-> Good eyes Rick!
->
-> Don't worry that will all be fixed, as well as the rest of the >LONG<

list,

-> before it's resold! There is enough slack in the elevator cables that I
-> think I can cut the cable off and wrap it around the bolt again with a

new

-> Nico!!
->
-> Wayne
->
-> ----- Original Message -----
-> From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
-> To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
-> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 8:12 AM
-> Subject: Pictures worth a thousand words
->
->
-> > All,
-> > Everybody, thanks for all of those pictures.
-> > On the picture with the additional bolts on the rebel stab attach
bracket,
-> also
-> > notice that the nico sleeves have only 2 of the required three

crimps.

-> That
-> > picture really gives meaning to that experimental warning label that

you

-> are
-> > required to place on the a/c for all to read.
-> > Good luck you'll need it,
-> > Rick D.
-> > Rebel S/N 404R
-> > (gave up predicting when it will fly)
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->

*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*

-> > To unsubscribe from this list go to:
-> > http://www.dcsol.com:81/public/code/html-subscribe.wcx
-> > Archives located at

http://rebel:builder@www.dcsol.com:81/default.htm

-> > To contact the list admin, e-mail mike.davis@dcsol.com
-> >
->

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-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
-> >
->
->

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[Walter Klatt]

Yup, it was a real high for me yesterday alright.

Not yet sure about Arlington as it does conflict with
that Nimpo Lake fly-in on the weekend. And of course,
we've got Bob P. and the Ramblers coming around then.
So will play it by ear, and depending on weather, etc,
etc, will probably decide at the last minute.

Of course, you could always zip across the border now
that you know where we are here at Langley. It's just a
45 minute flight from Arlington.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, June 07, 2003 6:46 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words


Hi Walter,

It sounds like your having all the fun. Are
you still planning on Arlington
or the float fly in the Cascades, scheduled
at the same time this July? I plan
on having my Rebel (on wheels) at Arlington
this year. I'm looking forward to
seeing you and your plane again.

Bobp,

How does one follow the Ramble so as to hook
up with you guys at some point,
out west?

Bruce



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[Legeorgen]

Hi Walter,

It sounds like your having all the fun. Are you still planning on Arlington
or the float fly in the Cascades, scheduled at the same time this July? I plan
on having my Rebel (on wheels) at Arlington this year. I'm looking forward to
seeing you and your plane again.

Bobp,

How does one follow the Ramble so as to hook up with you guys at some point,
out west?

Bruce



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[Dale Kilbey]

Chris
There is another option. You can run the cables directly from the rudder
pedals to the water rudders. It requires 2 pulleys slightly penetrating
through the floor. The cables have to cross .
With this method, you get full travel witg a lot of power to the water
rudders and absolutely no stress on the rudder horn
Dale 220R



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[Legeorgen]

Walter,

I've never crossed the boarder. Do you have to call customs ahead to just
stay for a few hour visit?

Bruce



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[Walter Klatt]

Yes, when you choose your port of entry, you have to
call and let customs know the exact time you will be
arriving. When you go to the US, they like you to be
within 15 minutes of that time. In Canada, they are
less picky. You open a flight plan when you are ready
to go, and close it upon arrival, both ways. You will
want a transponder, although I'm not certain it is
mandatory. Going to the US, I had to purchase an annual
$25 sticker upon arrival at customs, which I assume you
guys won't have to because you are residents. There was
nothing like that in Canada, but not sure if the same
applies to Americans.

To fly to Langley or Chilliwack, best entry port is
Abbotsford. They were quick and friendly, not like when
you go by car or airlines. Then it's a 5 minute flight
to either Langley or Chilliwack. When I went to
Arlington, they had customs set up there, and again,
quick and friendly. Otherwise you can enter the US at
Bellingham. Also, you will want the local charts and
airport information so you have all the right
frequencies and know where to go. For Abbotsford and
Langley, I can give you the exact and specific
procedures for these airports.

There are some sites on the net to guide you through
the process. Probably EAA will have all the info you
need from your side.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
legeorgen@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2003 8:07 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Pictures worth a thousand words


Walter,

I've never crossed the boarder. Do you have
to call customs ahead to just
stay for a few hour visit?

Bruce



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[Al & Deb Paxhia]

Chris,
Another thought on water rudder performance. I had a problem with water
rudder authority. It turned out to be the linkage that slaves the right seat
brakes to the left seat. When I would push the rudder all the way to
firewall the brake linkage would go over center and lock. The springs then
took the load and the rudder would not turn back to the other direction.
This did not happen in the air because I never held the rudder hard left or
right stiff legged. The fix was to take out the right seat brakes. The
water rudders work fine now. If the wind is up around 15mph I need to plan
the turn a little better than when in lighter air.
By the way, I did have the MAM fix for this problem. If the linkage is set
to not go over center, the brakes go on when pushing the rudder.
Al

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