You can get a beautiful helical gear planetary re-drive,
with the small gear INSIDE, for best lubrication, from
Guy Marcotte, in Quebec, for about $3,500 CDN (that's
about $1.42 US ;-) ) He makes drive for V-8's up to
about 800 hp. ! Phone (418) 362-2569
.....bobp
--------------------------------orig.----------------------------
At 06:57 AM 5/4/03 +1000, you wrote:
It's hard to tell from the picture but the PSRU you directed me to looks
like it has a major disadvantage with regard to installation on a Super
Rebel. There doesn't look like there is much distance between the crank
axis and the output axis where the prop bolts on. This will put the top of
your engine somewhere in the middle of your windshield (exaggeration but a
problem nonetheless). I'm looking for PSRUs with at least 7 inches of
separation. I don't think anything less will work. John Worden's
installation with the Geshwender PSRU has 7 inches if I'm not mistaken, and
he still has a bump on the top of the cowl to accommodate the top of the
engine. You are focusing on the engine mount problem with good reason. But
I think the most important decision to make with regard to a V8 installation
is the PSRU. I like helical gear drives because they are robust, have a
long history of use in turboprops, and have a provision for driving a prop
governer. But they are VERY expensive. Right around $10,000! I have heard
belts are nice because they have a desireable dampening affect and are
relatively inexpensive, but do not provide for a prop governer. I think
belts are the noisiest of the lot. I don't know much about the HI-VO chain
that John uses in the Geshwender. It's price falls between belts and gear
drives, and I think it does have a provision for driving a prop governer.
Can you fill us in on the characterisitcs of the chain drive John?
Mike Kimball
SR#044
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rickhm at home" <Rickhm@mindspring.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, May 04, 2003 2:43 AM
Subject: RE: Another V8 Super Rebel?
howYou have some great support people up there. I have spent some time in
Alaske climbing Denali and down in the St. Elias range. I was always
impressed with the people I met, and there knowledge base. Please keep me
updated on your progress. I do understand the model you are using for
engine design and service. I must admit that I am not overwhelmed withhardMAM has done some things with respect to their serviceability. Riveting
inspection plates struck me as a all out dumb idea. It is true that an
auto fuel injection system does add a little complexity. I did have to do
some reading to gain an understanding. I also have a buddy that races
cars, mostly Honda civics'. I don't recall the class, but he has won the
national title several times. His average life before tear down is about
20 hours. He and I discussed at length buy Vs build. There are clear
advantages to both. I too was very interested in NW Aero's offering of a
full up engine. But that is now old news. I did find a place that sells
the full engine test run
(http://www.advanceadapters.com/acrobat/enginfo.pdf ). There cost is
$6400. THE GM "Kit Engine" is $5700 and does not come with the
accessories, so $6400 isn't a bad price given the include the accessories
and test run the engine. Regarding Engine mount. I have not done theislook and I need to regarding the mount points on a standard V8 small block
and the LS1. I am very interested in your progress here. After all, the
engine mount is a very key part of the system! Another site you should
check out regarding PSRU is
http://www.ec-securehost.com/Stumpjumpe ... gines.html It
is designed for an airboat. These guys put lots more load on a prop that
we will. Imagine doing a 360 on a dime! The cost is $2500. I know there
are others that are using this in aircraft. The down side is its weightthem,69 lbs. I don't know what other PSRU's weigh. I have not talked tobutsomething else on the list.
Thanks for the update!
Rick Muller
SR70
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kimball [SMTP:mkimball@gci.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 12:47 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Another V8 Super Rebel?
There is a local EAA chapter member in town that also has an engineering
business. It's just he and his wife who has a Ph.D. in engineering.
Between the two of them they will do the analysis and he will create a jig
and weld up my engine mount. The good news is that I will then have a jig
for creating more engine mounts. They have done this before for their
WAGAERO 2+2. Cost should be between $1000 and $1500. I don't know if the
jig will help you with the LS1 since it's a completely new block designveryif it can be used maybe we can use it to build a mount for you. I wasreturn.interested in the LS1 when Northwest Aero was selling a complete aircraft
conversion including their own PSRU. Then a couple of things changed my
mind. Northwest stopped selling engines and I didn't put in a fuelonI also became more and more convinced that I wanted the simplest system I
could design, with repair in the field at least a possibility. Once I'manythingfloats I could be just about anywhere up here in Alaska where there won't
be
a convenient parts department. Also, I want to be able to work onstarton my airplane and I'm not knowledgeable about electronic fuel injection
systems. I mentioned this philosophy to Robin Dyck, MAM's pilot, and he
said, "Heck, why have a fuel pump at all. Just go with gravity feed and
you
have nothing to fail with fuel delivery to a carburetor."
I'm meeting with a friend who's an expert engine builder on Monday topassplacing orders to build my engine. Once I know what I'm getting, I'llcostit on along with the rationale for each component. I will tell you that
the
engine I'm building will produce an honest 400-425 horsepower and willIa mere $12,000 or so including all accessories.
Mike Kimball
SR #044
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Rickhm at home
Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:26 AM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Another V8 Super Rebel?
I am planning on using an LS1. It will likely be more expensive than
purchasing an aluminum block and building an engine up, but my knowledge
base is not overwhelming when it comes to engine internals and assembly.aluminummust also admit the years of building have got me in a mode where I would
like to fly before my 90th birthday. The LS1 also represents a 3rd
generation of engine development by GM. At the moment the one obstacle I
have not found a solution to is engine mount. I guess everyone that uses
an auto engine faces this. Any suggestions? I would be interested in
hearing about your approach!
Rick Muller
SR70
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Kimball [SMTP:mkimball@gci.net]
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 11:05 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Another V8 Super Rebel?
Hey Rick, I lost track of the fact that you are going with a V8. I am
starting to put together an order for parts starting with a Rodeckwords.350 block. Where are you at engine wise?
Mike Kimball
SR #044
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rickhm@mindspring.com
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 6:25 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: Tail Wheel Attach Point on SR
Scott,
Thanks for the reply. It is a little hard to describe what I did inifA picture is really worth a thousand words. I would be happy to providerivetinterested. Although taking a picture of this might be a real challenge!
Imagine you are looking at the tail from the right side. There are 2"enhancinglines that hold the two flanges for the sub-assembly the tail spring
attaches two. Of course there are 2 other rivet lines on the left side as
well. As you look at these rivet lines there is a rivet line running for
and aft that holds the wrap around the bottom of the tail. If you have
X-ray vision you would see an angle running "away from you" along the
bottom
of the sub-assembly forward of the side the tail spring attaches to. This
is the "standard" design.
In my addition I added a 4-6" piece of 2" angle (flange on the angle is 2"
long) that runs forward of the sub-assembly. It attaches to the
sub-assembly by 2 bolts. These bolts would appear to run up and down as
viewed from the right (or left side) and connect one flange of my addition
to the flange of the angle that runs along the bottom (away from you)
described above. The angle attaches to the skin. So with your xray
vision
you would see one flange attached to the skin and running forward and the
other flange facing away from you. The skin now has an additional 2 rows
of
rivets in it above the rivet line where the corner wrap attaches.
Clear as mud? I know what you mean about taking stuff apart and*-------------------------------------------------------------------------*the design." Some of the time I do this as well. I am sure you have had
the experience of seeing something that your more comfortable enhancing.
One area where I did this is along the side of the fus up front. Recall
the
door posts skins and the skin that goes forward from the door post to the
firewall. I put an additional .040 2024-T3 layer over these to strenghten
the entire front end. Since I'm using a V8 engine I felt the extra 10 lbs
was worth the peace of mind. I don't understand why they didn't make this
one piece in the first place?
Thanks for the feedback.
Rick Muller
SR70
-------Original Message-------
From: Scott & Leere' Aldrich <flynski@mwutah.com>
Sent: 05/01/03 05:29 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Tail Wheel Attach Point on SR
notCorrection - The one piece tail stinger/stab bracket was welded aluminum
4130.
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Scott & Leere' Aldrich
Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 2:00 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Tail Wheel Attach Point on SR
Rick, all the ones I have seen have been the second hole up.
I can't imagine the piece warping under just the load of the empty
fuselage?? However, we did add doublers with an L that picks up the
flanges
on both sides, both front and back. MAMs was cracking on the flanges. Did
they tell anybody?? No.
What does your 4 inch angle tie into? The flanges on the fuselage sides?
I have seen one that has made the entire assembly out of welded 4130. He
needed a wider bracket for the tail stinger as he is upping that also.
May
be the way to go. I am getting good at taking stuff apart that I have
already completed so may do that later...
Scott
Moose #174
-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
rickhm@mindspring.com
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 3:53 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Tail Wheel Attach Point on SR
This weekend I was stringing cable for the rudder. I noticed that where
th
e tail wheel spring (the long pipe) attaches something was not right.
Upon
closer inspection I noticed that horizontal piece (Left side of Fus to
Rig
ht side) had bowed/warped under the minimal weight of the empty fus. This
was largly my mistake which I quickly corrected. But it got me looking
clo
sely and thinking. Under shock load, like that of the tail bouncing, the
f
orce is transfred into this horzontal member consisting of a buildup of
sev
eral pieces. My tail is attached to the second hole from the BOTTOM of
the
bracket. I must admit there has been lots of email on where this goes to
get the top of the tail "level" and mine is still not level (no engine
yet)
. I was not comfortable that the shock load wouldn't eventually crack the
flanges where the horizontal piece attaches to the side skin. I installed
4" of angle to transfer the load from the horizontal piece to the skin.
Th
e 4" angle runs parallel lengthwise toward the front of the fus.
Has anyone else looked at this and been concerned? Within general
reasonab
le tolerance, all the SR's should be about the same with respect to the
tai
l spring (pipe) and the levelness of the top of the tail wheel. Where is
e
veryone else seeing their tail attach, i.e. which hole?
Rick
Muller
SR70
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