Jean and others,
I've got a long way to go before making engine choices too, but the latest
thing to hit my interest is the Jabiru 5100 now on the market. 170hp @
2750rpm, 257lbs dry wt. ! I know the small 2200 Jab engine has been a
disappointment on some Kitfox type planes because of the high rpm. (Should
have been expected tho, really.) Aside from that, the other Jabiru engines
have been great as far as I know, and the bigger 8 cyl turns slower and has
enf power to derate if you want. I will eagerly watch as the first of these go
into use.
-Ben Ransom
On 4/29/2003 9:42 AM, REBEL wrote to ALL REBEL BUILDER/OWNER:
-> I will start building my Rebel in august (order have been send last week to
-> mam) and read all the e:mail with interest. Many builder I think have use
0-
-> 235 and 0-320 with success and it is probably a very good choice. does
-> someone know about Franklin O-240, 125 hp, 4 cylinders? They use same
engine
-> mount as the O-200 Continental. Do you know if mam (or someone else)
-> manufacture engine mount/cowling for those or for O-200? The price is good
-> and 125 hp sounds good. Reliability? I know that their 6 cylinder run very
-> quiet without vibration... Excuse my english, I do my best....
-> Jean Poirier oxyport@globetrotter.net
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Franklin engine, or Jabiru?
-
bransom
Franklin engine, or Jabiru?
The Jab 5100 spec of 257 lbs is ramp weight (includes Exhaust, Carburetor,
Starter Motor, Alternator & Ignition System). I'm not being too lucky with
the search engine right now, but I recall the comparable 0-320 is about 50lbs
more. Although it is a concern that a flat-8 will be longer and therefore
worsen the CG, the 6 cyl Jab I've seen is surprisingly compact. But back on
the negative you mention Bruce, yes, drawings show the carbs sticking out the
back 8" or 9", and that alone pushes the engine further forward. It would
seem a silly shame if carb location nixed this engine choice.
If the 8 cylinder power pulses can allow for a Warp prop, then there would be
that savings too.
Still, it seems there is no end of happy 0320 Rebel owners out there.
-Ben
On 4/29/2003 8:52 PM, LEGEORGEN@AOL.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> You fellows considering a Jab 5100 should do some C&G calculations before
any
-> purchase. I looks to me, from the pictures I've seen of this engine, that
it
-> will extend forward off the firewall farther than a Lycoming or Subaru.
-> Because of its length. And if it's empty weight is the same as a Lycoming
-> 0320 (257 lb.) this will only exasperate the already forward C&G problem
-> associated with the Rebel/Elite. I would hate to see you put 50 lb. in the
-> tail cone just to make her flyable. It wouldn't be the first time that
-> happened.
->
-> Bruce 357R
->
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Starter Motor, Alternator & Ignition System). I'm not being too lucky with
the search engine right now, but I recall the comparable 0-320 is about 50lbs
more. Although it is a concern that a flat-8 will be longer and therefore
worsen the CG, the 6 cyl Jab I've seen is surprisingly compact. But back on
the negative you mention Bruce, yes, drawings show the carbs sticking out the
back 8" or 9", and that alone pushes the engine further forward. It would
seem a silly shame if carb location nixed this engine choice.
If the 8 cylinder power pulses can allow for a Warp prop, then there would be
that savings too.
Still, it seems there is no end of happy 0320 Rebel owners out there.
-Ben
On 4/29/2003 8:52 PM, LEGEORGEN@AOL.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:
-> You fellows considering a Jab 5100 should do some C&G calculations before
any
-> purchase. I looks to me, from the pictures I've seen of this engine, that
it
-> will extend forward off the firewall farther than a Lycoming or Subaru.
-> Because of its length. And if it's empty weight is the same as a Lycoming
-> 0320 (257 lb.) this will only exasperate the already forward C&G problem
-> associated with the Rebel/Elite. I would hate to see you put 50 lb. in the
-> tail cone just to make her flyable. It wouldn't be the first time that
-> happened.
->
-> Bruce 357R
->
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-
Legeorgen
Franklin engine, or Jabiru?
You fellows considering a Jab 5100 should do some C&G calculations before any
purchase. I looks to me, from the pictures I've seen of this engine, that it
will extend forward off the firewall farther than a Lycoming or Subaru.
Because of its length. And if it's empty weight is the same as a Lycoming
0320 (257 lb.) this will only exasperate the already forward C&G problem
associated with the Rebel/Elite. I would hate to see you put 50 lb. in the
tail cone just to make her flyable. It wouldn't be the first time that
happened.
Bruce 357R
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purchase. I looks to me, from the pictures I've seen of this engine, that it
will extend forward off the firewall farther than a Lycoming or Subaru.
Because of its length. And if it's empty weight is the same as a Lycoming
0320 (257 lb.) this will only exasperate the already forward C&G problem
associated with the Rebel/Elite. I would hate to see you put 50 lb. in the
tail cone just to make her flyable. It wouldn't be the first time that
happened.
Bruce 357R
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-
klehman
Franklin engine, or Jabiru?
FWIW when I looked at weights, I also never found a believable installed
0-320 weight that wasn't a little over 300 lbs when you included all the
bits.
The Warp props don't seem to have any problem on 4 cylinder geared
engines even without a torsional damper. (Anybody hear different??) That
is perhaps similar to an 8 cylinder direct drive. OTOH many/most of the
claims for making 160 hp and up from a 4 cyl. Subaru are highly suspect
so it might be worth talking to Warp Drive about the maximum power. I'd
also ask MAM about any impact on directional stability from a long nose
like the 6 cyl. LOM or 8 cyl. Jabiru.
Ken
Gregory Gordon wrote:
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0-320 weight that wasn't a little over 300 lbs when you included all the
bits.
The Warp props don't seem to have any problem on 4 cylinder geared
engines even without a torsional damper. (Anybody hear different??) That
is perhaps similar to an 8 cylinder direct drive. OTOH many/most of the
claims for making 160 hp and up from a 4 cyl. Subaru are highly suspect
so it might be worth talking to Warp Drive about the maximum power. I'd
also ask MAM about any impact on directional stability from a long nose
like the 6 cyl. LOM or 8 cyl. Jabiru.
Ken
Gregory Gordon wrote:
Dear Bruce,
Thanks for pointing out a very critical area. I have started checking some
calculations re c of g.
The total installed weight of the Jab 5100 is 105kg(231lbs); this includes
starter, alternator, oil cooler, carburetor, mount frame and s/s exhaust
system. Thus maybe a lot less than a comparable complete O-320. I am still
trying to get the total weight together of an 0-320.
The width of the Jab 5100 is about the same at 658mm (25.90") but the
lenght is much greater at 914mm( 36") from the rear to the front of the
propellor flange; say 10" greater.
There are no recommended metal props for use with the Jab 5100 as yet, so a
composite Warp Drive will come in at less than then a metal prop hanging of
an 0-320.
I will find time to do the calculations.
Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.
Regards,
Greg Gordon.
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-
Gregory Gordon
Franklin engine, or Jabiru?
Dear Ben,
I visited the Jabiru factory in Bundaberg in late October last year to
inspect the Jab 5100 engine. At that stage it had not been released for sale
as the company was still testing it; of interest the test aircraft used was
a 3/4 scale Spitfire. Originally the engine was rated at 200hp, but after
testing and some persistent problems, has been derated to 170hp at 2750rpm.
The engine is on my short list because of the "completeness" of the package,
the all up weight and the price.
The downside at this stage is that there was reported some problem with
cylinder head cooling when used in the Spitfire (the engine uses Ramair
cooling ducts with an oil cooler). The Spitfire had a speed of 220 knots
plus.
So it is very early days yet to see what other problems may occurr in use;
but the company's existing products seem to have a good name and good
quality control over seen by our Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
The quoted price of Aus$24,000 for the complete engine includes the starter
motor, alternator, Ramair cooling ducts, engine mount cushions and a
stainless steel exhaust system. They were going to develop a number of
firewall forward packages for a number of kit aircrafts, including the
Elite/Rebel. I have been quoted a price of approximately Aus$5000. The
package includes the nose bowl, top and bottom cowling, spinner flange, hot
air mixer box kit, engine mount frame, oil cooler kit and associated
miscellaneous cables and fittings.
Given time this engine package maybe a good "bet".
Kind regards,
Greg. Gordon. Elite 724(still building the tail section sub kit)
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I visited the Jabiru factory in Bundaberg in late October last year to
inspect the Jab 5100 engine. At that stage it had not been released for sale
as the company was still testing it; of interest the test aircraft used was
a 3/4 scale Spitfire. Originally the engine was rated at 200hp, but after
testing and some persistent problems, has been derated to 170hp at 2750rpm.
The engine is on my short list because of the "completeness" of the package,
the all up weight and the price.
The downside at this stage is that there was reported some problem with
cylinder head cooling when used in the Spitfire (the engine uses Ramair
cooling ducts with an oil cooler). The Spitfire had a speed of 220 knots
plus.
So it is very early days yet to see what other problems may occurr in use;
but the company's existing products seem to have a good name and good
quality control over seen by our Civil Aviation Safety Authority.
The quoted price of Aus$24,000 for the complete engine includes the starter
motor, alternator, Ramair cooling ducts, engine mount cushions and a
stainless steel exhaust system. They were going to develop a number of
firewall forward packages for a number of kit aircrafts, including the
Elite/Rebel. I have been quoted a price of approximately Aus$5000. The
package includes the nose bowl, top and bottom cowling, spinner flange, hot
air mixer box kit, engine mount frame, oil cooler kit and associated
miscellaneous cables and fittings.
Given time this engine package maybe a good "bet".
Kind regards,
Greg. Gordon. Elite 724(still building the tail section sub kit)
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-
Gregory Gordon
Franklin engine, or Jabiru?
Dear Bruce,
Thanks for pointing out a very critical area. I have started checking some
calculations re c of g.
The total installed weight of the Jab 5100 is 105kg(231lbs); this includes
starter, alternator, oil cooler, carburetor, mount frame and s/s exhaust
system. Thus maybe a lot less than a comparable complete O-320. I am still
trying to get the total weight together of an 0-320.
The width of the Jab 5100 is about the same at 658mm (25.90") but the
lenght is much greater at 914mm( 36") from the rear to the front of the
propellor flange; say 10" greater.
There are no recommended metal props for use with the Jab 5100 as yet, so a
composite Warp Drive will come in at less than then a metal prop hanging of
an 0-320.
I will find time to do the calculations.
Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.
Regards,
Greg Gordon.
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Thanks for pointing out a very critical area. I have started checking some
calculations re c of g.
The total installed weight of the Jab 5100 is 105kg(231lbs); this includes
starter, alternator, oil cooler, carburetor, mount frame and s/s exhaust
system. Thus maybe a lot less than a comparable complete O-320. I am still
trying to get the total weight together of an 0-320.
The width of the Jab 5100 is about the same at 658mm (25.90") but the
lenght is much greater at 914mm( 36") from the rear to the front of the
propellor flange; say 10" greater.
There are no recommended metal props for use with the Jab 5100 as yet, so a
composite Warp Drive will come in at less than then a metal prop hanging of
an 0-320.
I will find time to do the calculations.
Thanks for the advice, very much appreciated.
Regards,
Greg Gordon.
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Gregory Gordon
Franklin engine, or Jabiru?
Dear Ben,
I e-mailed you the attached reply yesterday but it was returned by the
server, hence my re-attempt.
"Dear Ben,
After reading your e-mail this morning and seeing how confusion could arise,
I contacted the Jab factory at Bundaberg this morning for some answers. So I
hope the following information that Jamie Cook(Product Support Supervisor)
and his staff gave me will help.
1 170 hp at 2700rpm, 180 hp at 3000rpm, Torque 330 ft/lb at 2700rpm.
2 Engine weight: 117kg(257lbs) including starter motor, starter relay,
carburettors, alternator, propeller flange & guides & exhaust system comlete
with muffler. The weight does NOT include the oil cooler(1lb), the Ram air
cooling ducts(2.5lbs), the engine mount cushions & engine mounts.
3 A three blade Warp Drive propellor was used on the test Spitfire. There
has been no problem with this system. Average fuel flow at 2600rpm was
approximately 30 litres per hour.
4 The engine is currently been installed in an RV6 for trials. The
installation should be completed in two weeks. I was advised that after the
installation of the Jab engine on the RV6 that the increased length over the
O-320 was approximately 8 inches. I will pass on the trial results when I
receive them.
I hope these figures assist you. As I said previously that it is very early
days yet for this engine, but hopefully in another year there maybe a better
and lighter alternative to either an 0-320 or a Subaru.
Kind regards,
Greg. Gordon."
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I e-mailed you the attached reply yesterday but it was returned by the
server, hence my re-attempt.
"Dear Ben,
After reading your e-mail this morning and seeing how confusion could arise,
I contacted the Jab factory at Bundaberg this morning for some answers. So I
hope the following information that Jamie Cook(Product Support Supervisor)
and his staff gave me will help.
1 170 hp at 2700rpm, 180 hp at 3000rpm, Torque 330 ft/lb at 2700rpm.
2 Engine weight: 117kg(257lbs) including starter motor, starter relay,
carburettors, alternator, propeller flange & guides & exhaust system comlete
with muffler. The weight does NOT include the oil cooler(1lb), the Ram air
cooling ducts(2.5lbs), the engine mount cushions & engine mounts.
3 A three blade Warp Drive propellor was used on the test Spitfire. There
has been no problem with this system. Average fuel flow at 2600rpm was
approximately 30 litres per hour.
4 The engine is currently been installed in an RV6 for trials. The
installation should be completed in two weeks. I was advised that after the
installation of the Jab engine on the RV6 that the increased length over the
O-320 was approximately 8 inches. I will pass on the trial results when I
receive them.
I hope these figures assist you. As I said previously that it is very early
days yet for this engine, but hopefully in another year there maybe a better
and lighter alternative to either an 0-320 or a Subaru.
Kind regards,
Greg. Gordon."
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