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Rebel landing gear

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Bob Patterson

Rebel landing gear

Post by Bob Patterson » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm

Hi Ken !

Yup ! I'm a convert ! I still really like the bungee
gear, and would choose it over the spring gear absolutely,
anytime !!! And I would add Gord Mohr's bushing kit ANYWAY,
whether using bungees or die springs, as it will make the gear
stronger, and much more durable .

My big concern with die springs was, like you, I thought
that they would compress completely at low g's, and then transmit
damage to the airframe. While I still worry a bit about this,
because of the lack of a final damper, I listened to Wayne's
calculations of compression rates and load factors, and was convinced
he'd 'done the homework'.... and experience has shown that there
IS some damping provided by the friction within the tubes, and,
<so far>, I haven't managed to compress them fully ! ;-)

The bungees are NOT supposed to move except to prevent
damage to the airframe, so the tires are the primary shock absorbers.
The die spring gear moves ALL THE TIME, so you really need the
bushings. I find that the factory spring gear gives a "waddling"
ride, with a certain amount of bounce-back over bumps, and
the bungee gear gives a pretty "stiff" ride if the tires are hard.
The die spring gear absolutely gives THE best ride for a Rebel,
with each wheel moving independently to cushion the bumps. Of course,
I also use the fat 800 x 6 DICO/Carlyle tires - a bit more drag,
but a great ride on rough ground !

One big concern is the safety cables - while some scoff
at these as unnecessary, I've personally had a gear tube failure -
on the prtotype, with only a SINGLE layer of leg tube at the bolt !
The safety cable held, although we were fully loaded, returning
from Oshkosh with ALL our gear ! I guess it is possible to install
these cables through the die springs, and replace them every couple
of years for peace of mind ..... but I'm leaning more to the
"Alaska" style safety cable - on the outside, where it's easy to
inspect & replace. These could be streamlined by wrapping
a Lexan fairing around the whole gear tube, which would still
leave them visible for inspection.

The other REALLY IMPORTANT consideration is: since ALL
of the gear parts are MOVING ALL THE TIME - I like to lubricate
everything every 3 or 4 flights. This is just a matter of having
an oil can and grease gun in the hangar, as part of the pre-flight.
This is good for the Scott tailwheel, too, as it needs grease
every few flights - something many pilots neglect. Spray grease
for the aileron pushrods and elevator hinges helps, too ! I flew
Rebel Number 1 for 10 years before significant play developed....

Anyway - if Wayne has another set of die spring tubes
available, grab them !! And install Gord's bushings before giving
Wayne the final measurements ... I think you'll like the
ride, and the extra 6 lbs. or so isn't tooooo big a deal -
it's almost right on the CofG ! ;-) There are lots of worse
ways to add weight (like the extra 28 lb. for the spring gear !!) ;-^)

......bobp

---------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 02:31 PM 2/28/03 -0500, you wrote:
Hi Bob
Any comments on the bungee gear vs. Waynes's die sring gear??
Last I recall you kind of liked the die springs.
thanks
Ken


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Wayne G. O'Shea

Rebel landing gear

Post by Wayne G. O'Shea » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:49 pm

I think Ken was asking you behind the scene, but since it was positive
THANKS for the support Bob!!

Pretty sure I have posted pictures of how to do safety cables for my struts,
but will check again to make sure they are clear enough for guys to
duplicate on their own. OR maybe I should be making them up, as well, for a
"bolt on" option to try and make some more money. I would try not to charge
what Atlee Dodge does for the supercub cables though!!

Also with safety cables I have always thought it was kind of stupid to hook
them to the same bolt that is retaining the strut to the aircraft at the
axle end (Like Atlee's SC cables do). I know the original intent on a cub or
Rebel is to catch in the event of bungee failure, but if a strut attach bolt
fails or the attach gusset shears out you're toast!! I attach the cable to
one of the axle retainer bolts at the bottom and at the top to the OPPOSITE
sides wishbone strut attach bolt. This way if you ever break a strut bolt,
or rip it out of the aluminum gussets, the cable is not attached to anything
that has failed and will still hold the aircraft up.

As for my struts durability I have been proving the fact with my original
prototype set for 8 years now, come June. I lube them once a year whether
they need it, or I remember, or not and they are holding up just fine! I
welded mine with an ARC welder (try that with thin wall 4130!) and DO NOT
have Gord's gear pivots installed on my gear legs (ALTHOUGH I HIGHLY
RECOMMEND the upgrade). All struts manufactured since mine have been done
"properly" with a TIG welder so can only be better IMHO.

Wayne G. O'Shea
www.irishfield.on.ca

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Patterson" <apat@istar.ca>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 1:50 PM
Subject: Rebel landing gear

Hi Ken !

Yup ! I'm a convert ! I still really like the bungee
gear, and would choose it over the spring gear absolutely,
anytime !!! And I would add Gord Mohr's bushing kit ANYWAY,
whether using bungees or die springs, as it will make the gear
stronger, and much more durable .

My big concern with die springs was, like you, I thought
that they would compress completely at low g's, and then transmit
damage to the airframe. While I still worry a bit about this,
because of the lack of a final damper, I listened to Wayne's
calculations of compression rates and load factors, and was convinced
he'd 'done the homework'.... and experience has shown that there
IS some damping provided by the friction within the tubes, and,
<so far>, I haven't managed to compress them fully ! ;-)

The bungees are NOT supposed to move except to prevent
damage to the airframe, so the tires are the primary shock absorbers.
The die spring gear moves ALL THE TIME, so you really need the
bushings. I find that the factory spring gear gives a "waddling"
ride, with a certain amount of bounce-back over bumps, and
the bungee gear gives a pretty "stiff" ride if the tires are hard.
The die spring gear absolutely gives THE best ride for a Rebel,
with each wheel moving independently to cushion the bumps. Of course,
I also use the fat 800 x 6 DICO/Carlyle tires - a bit more drag,
but a great ride on rough ground !

One big concern is the safety cables - while some scoff
at these as unnecessary, I've personally had a gear tube failure -
on the prtotype, with only a SINGLE layer of leg tube at the bolt !
The safety cable held, although we were fully loaded, returning
from Oshkosh with ALL our gear ! I guess it is possible to install
these cables through the die springs, and replace them every couple
of years for peace of mind ..... but I'm leaning more to the
"Alaska" style safety cable - on the outside, where it's easy to
inspect & replace. These could be streamlined by wrapping
a Lexan fairing around the whole gear tube, which would still
leave them visible for inspection.

The other REALLY IMPORTANT consideration is: since ALL
of the gear parts are MOVING ALL THE TIME - I like to lubricate
everything every 3 or 4 flights. This is just a matter of having
an oil can and grease gun in the hangar, as part of the pre-flight.
This is good for the Scott tailwheel, too, as it needs grease
every few flights - something many pilots neglect. Spray grease
for the aileron pushrods and elevator hinges helps, too ! I flew
Rebel Number 1 for 10 years before significant play developed....

Anyway - if Wayne has another set of die spring tubes
available, grab them !! And install Gord's bushings before giving
Wayne the final measurements ... I think you'll like the
ride, and the extra 6 lbs. or so isn't tooooo big a deal -
it's almost right on the CofG ! ;-) There are lots of worse
ways to add weight (like the extra 28 lb. for the spring gear !!) ;-^)

......bobp

---------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 02:31 PM 2/28/03 -0500, you wrote:
Hi Bob
Any comments on the bungee gear vs. Waynes's die sring gear??
Last I recall you kind of liked the die springs.
thanks
Ken


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apoulsen

Rebel landing gear

Post by apoulsen » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:13 am

Hello all,

I'm looking ahead trying to avoid "gotchas". When I look at the install of the slide tube assembly (fig 15.1.2) it appears the instructions were written for the half tubes across the bottom of the cage. AN5-20 bolts would be long enough in that case. However, I used the full tubes. So what does one do?

I can drill over size holes in the front and rear faces of the cage tubes so that I can insert sockets and use the -20 bolts or get longer bolts and go all the way through. My instinct is that bolts that long would not be a good idea. Too much opportunity to wiggles and stretch.

Any thoughts??

Thanks,
Allen Poulsen
786R





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A Yeoman

Rebel landing gear

Post by A Yeoman » Sun Feb 19, 2012 12:15 pm

Mike, I have attempted to put three photos in the archives under "rebel
landing gear". They are all I have at this stage, if there is any more
interest I can get more detailed ones.

You will notice the gear is not standard Murphy, I always reckoned a Rebel
should stand a bit taller so this gear is 6" longer with gun drilled brake
lines. I wouldn't have attempted this if I had not already beefed up the
gear attach area. I also extended the luggage area back to the next bay and
installed a side cargo door, it all works very well.

In regards to the gear beef up I should also 'own up' to all that I have
done ;-) as well as the carrythrough inserts, larger gear attach bolts,
stress beam I have also increased the thickness of the skin under the door
sill to 32thou along with the rolled corners in front of the door post, the
bottom skin under the cabin has been made heavier ( although I believe with
little effect as this was done before the stress beam went in) and the right
angle material joining the bottom skin and door sill skin has been made
heavier and widened to make room for two rows of rivets.

Other things I have done would be running a top hat section from under the
top engine mount back to the witches hat just in front of the door post ( I
got cracking in the insrument panel area from movement there) and of course
all the float fix mods have been done including double pitching the rivets
on the door post. The tail section has had the two doublers added. It is
probably worth noting I also found smoking rivets on the forward end of the
tail wrap so have put a doubler there as well, although I advise any one
building over here just to extend the forward end of the tail wrap and put
in two rows of rivets, that seems to work.

Sounds an awfull lot doesn't it? But having said that I have not had a sign
of anything moving now for years, as I say it seems bullet proof, I would
take it anywhere you could land it safely and some of the strips are very
rough.

Some people say if you do hit any thing and rip the gear off the damage in
the area of the gear will be more severe because of the added strength, I
would be more concerned of the secondry damage and saftey issues of losing
your gear in the first place.

Hope this is of interest to some of you with concerns regards the Rebel
landing gear.

And Hi Curt...... calvings going like a rocket thanks .....;-)

Cheers

Alister

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Davis" <mike.davis@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 4:50 AM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rambler Returns/Rebel landing gear

Hi Alister, I don't think we have a photo of your stress beam installation
on the archive site anymore... that was posted before the server crash a
couple of years ago. Perhaps you could upload a couple again for those
who
are interested.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "A Yeoman" <yeom@xtra.co.nz>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Friday, August 03, 2007 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rambler Returns/Rebel landing gear

Regards Rebel landing gear, I have been flying my Rebel ( #513) for about
9
years now ( minus 3 years being rebuilt after a slight whoopsie) and have
my
spring gear to a point where I would say it is bullet proof. The aircraft
has been well tested in rough of field landings. A few things needed to
be
done, such as inserting solid aluminium blocks into the ends of the
carrythroughs, increasing the size of the attach bolts and building a
stress
carrying beam that bolts under the straddle brackets and back to a hard
point where the rear bungee gear attach point would normally be, I have
found this distributes the braking type loads and adds immense strength
to
the gear attach.

Cheers

Alister (New Zealand)


----- Original Message -----
From: <bransom@dcsol.com>
To: <rebel-builders@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] Rambler Returns/Rebel landing gear

Jesse
I'm with you on wanting the best landing gear possible. With no Rebel
experience, just reading here for a few years, and knowing what rough
terrain feels like, I'm pretty open to the idea that improvements are
possible. Although bigger soft tires may be the simplest and cheapest
"design" improvement, I still kick around the idea of doing something
different. For starters tho, as advised by so many, I will just aim to
get
it flying.
-Ben



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