Received: from [137.186.224.191] (helo=ms01-191.tor.istar.ca)
by mail4.toronto.istar.net with smtp (Exim 1.92 #2)
for
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
id 10RT2A-0003Sv-00; Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:48:19 -0500
X-Sender:
crs1188@inforamp.net
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: <
murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <
bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Rebel fun !
Message-Id: <
E10RT2A-0003Sv-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1999 22:48:19 -0500
Thanks for the fast (and useful !) answer !!
I have experienced the greatly increased rate of descent at low speeds
- that's why I warn all new Rebel pilots NOT to approach below about
65 mph until they are really comfortable with the aircraft.
I have had situations where I thought the ROD was not enough also -
on short final, at 1,000 ft, after running through a thermal. I did
a couple with full flapperon AND full rudder - had to grab onto the
handhold !! The Rebel came down almost vertically !! I increased the speed
to about 75 mph to increase ROD & rudder effectiveness -> like a
ton of bricks !!
I often use a little slip if I look a bit high - the rudder IS very
good ! This, in spite of the old admonition:
" Never slip a flapped ship ...
Because a flapped ship might flip !"
Have never had any problem with the Rebel, although amphib floats,
with the gear down, DO change the sideslip characteristics somewhat -
it isn't quite as solid with all that drag forward. Of course, with
the floats & rigging, there is SO much drag that you should NEVER
need to slip - I was just 'testing' !
I certainly have no reservations about using the flaps AND
slipping. That way, you have the benefit of reduced stall speeds and
increased drag. I would be a little worried about using 40 KT -
wind shear could spoil your day ! Also, unless you were ready to come
in quickly with a big shot of power, there might not be enough speed
for a good flare .... Still, another trick to put in the bag,
'just in case' - there might be a need someday. I really like this
feeling of comfort and safety with the Rebel - it seems like you always
have full control within easy reach. I suspect that the Helio Courier
might be the only other aircraft that might be like this !!
Once, in a 'shortest landing' contest, I approached over a tall
tree, with the speed back a little below 40 mph, then pulled full flap,
pushed the nose over, and almost came straight down the side of the
tree. By the time I reached the ground, there was enough speed to flare,
and land in the rough, well BEFORE the runway !! I won !
**** Definitely NOT recommended !!!! ********
(Don't try this at home - unless you're VERY familiar with your airplane,
and the strip, AND are feeling VERY LUCKY !! )
We often demonstrate slowing right down to 'full back stick' in
gliders, in sideslips - to relieve the fear some people have of spinning
on approach. It is <impossible> to spin out of a full rudder sideslip -
as the stall approaches, the rudder loses effectiveness, and the nose
drops slightly, speed increases, and the cycle continues safely to
the ground. Conversely, if you want a faster rate of descent, AND
a steeper bank angle, for more drag, just increase the speed. The extra
speed makes the rudder more effective, so you can increase the bank
without turning, presenting more fuselage for drag - PLUS - the drag
squares with the speed, so you really come down !
(I just <know> somebody will find an example aircraft that
WILL spin out of a full rudder slip :-) )
I have not tried slowing a Rebel right down to full stick back
in a full rudder slip, (will soon), but I believe it will be fully
controllable, very stable, and be sinking like a stone ! Of course,
if I REALLY wanted to come down, I'd use full flap, AND increase the speed !
I'm sure you do the same things I do - play around with these different
configurations at a good safe altitude (above 3,000 ft.) FIRST !
Have fun, but be careful (ALL of you!) !!
------------------
certainly appears to be robust enough, it looks as though it MIGHT aerobat
similar to a Cessna Aerobat.
Haven't had a chance to try an Aerobat, but have tried 150's
(while wearing brown paper bag with eye-holes, to remain incognito :-) )
(couldn't be seen flying something with a 'training wheel' in front !) ;-)
- I would hope that the Rebel MIGHT perform <better> than a Cessna !!!
The Rebel MIGHT have a very good roll rate, and better low speed
performance .... :-)
......bobp
--------------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 01:47 PM 3/29/99 +1200, you wrote:
I've still got a Pitts sitting right next to the Rebel, so when I get the
urge to go upside down that is what I use.
I have meant to ask what peoples attitude to this would be, the aircraft
certainly appears to be robust enough, it looks as though it MIGHT aerobat
similar to a Cessna Aerobat. I MIGHT have a play.
I have a query under the heading of Rebel fun, concerning side slipping.
I found a very tight strip the other day that I was struggling to get into
with minimal head wind, I found that side slipping with no power and using
an airspeed of about 40Kts didn't give enough rate of decent to get into
it. (( in the end, I went down the steep gully, hard right, under the high
tension wires, round to the right of the big tree, hard left, hard right
and there was the strip right where I wanted!!!!) That was the most
exciting flying I've done for a long time!!!)
The lack of R.O.D. concerned me a little so when I got home I had a play
around. I found that under 40KTs ( no flaperon) the R.O.D. virtually
doubles, it appears that it is almost impossible to stall the aircraft even
with a full rudder slip as low as 30KTs indicated. The aircraft must be
semi stalled but it still appears very controllable ( the elevator does
feel very light, broken airflow I guess), Give it a slight check forward
and release the rudder and the aircraft is flying again instantaneously. I
feel this could be useful in certain circumstances.
Any opinions out there whether this is a little to close to the margins,
perhaps say in gusty conditions, or this just par for the course.
Alister
----------
up here !! Not 16 hours ALL WINTER ! :-( :-(
Sun 'n Fun Fly-in, in Florida, is coming, though ....
Speaking of fun, you have plenty of aerobatic experience - have you
done much with the Rebel ?? (not sure about legality down there - up here
it's not allowed, so we can only talk about what it MIGHT be like ;-) )
Have you seen the early promo videos, showing loops, rolls, & spins
??
The Rebel DOES spin nicely, and recovery is almost instant (that, we
CAN do here !).
It MIGHT slow quickly near the top of a loop, so extra entry speed
or power MIGHT be required ....
It MIGHT be difficult to do a nice round loop, with a small engine
...
So increasing the rate of pulling MIGHT be necessary .... ??
And it MIGHT be necessary to pull the nose 'WAY up for a barrel
roll,
because it MIGHT lose height quickly .....
Any thoughts, suggestions ??? :-)
A good topic for "Flying Rebels" ??
.....bobp & Anna
-------------------------------orig.--------------------------------------
At 10:16 AM 3/29/99 +1200, you wrote:
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the info on that, you're right, the Rebel is just the neatest
as
it is! I should know I did 16 hrs just last week!! that was Fun!!!
Alister
----------
