Montana Floats

[rebel]

Helloo,

I am trying to make the choice between Montana and Aerocet floats for my
SR2500. Wondering if any of you Rebel guys have experience with Montana
floats and the Montana Float Company.

Update - SR#025 is passing through 40 hours and it just gets better and
better. Was out flying this afternoon, landing in a 10 knot crosswind is
simple in this plane. Feels like it's on rails. The only minor issue I've
had is trying to lower CHT's on the new O-540 in the plane. At 24 square (60F
OAT)I see around 400F and on climbs we are getting up to 460F on cylinder #2
and #3. Baffling is tight and oil T seldom gets over 190F. Hmmmmmm....

Chris Gill
Anchorage, AK



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[Peter & Monica]

Hey Chris,

What are the other cylinders' temps? Do you have a egt?

Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 8:53 PM
Subject: Montana Floats

Helloo,

I am trying to make the choice between Montana and Aerocet floats for my
SR2500. Wondering if any of you Rebel guys have experience with Montana
floats and the Montana Float Company.

Update - SR#025 is passing through 40 hours and it just gets better and
better. Was out flying this afternoon, landing in a 10 knot crosswind is
simple in this plane. Feels like it's on rails. The only minor issue

I've

had is trying to lower CHT's on the new O-540 in the plane. At 24 square

(60F

OAT)I see around 400F and on climbs we are getting up to 460F on cylinder

#2

and #3. Baffling is tight and oil T seldom gets over 190F. Hmmmmmm....

Chris Gill
Anchorage, AK

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[Don Boardman]

I am trying to make the choice between Montana and Aerocet floats for my
SR2500. Wondering if any of you Rebel guys have experience with Montana
floats and the Montana Float Company.

Chris,

We have a set of Aerocets in the driveway. We did see the Montana amphibs at
Oshkosh last year. They did not look bad, I think Keith was trying to take
some weight off for the production float.

Our conclusion was given the current floats available Aerocets were the best
choice for us.

Regards,
Don Boardman
& Partner
Randy Bowers
Moose #130 "The Beast" M-14PF 400HP Aerocet 3500 amphibs Rome, NY







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[Al & Deb Paxhia]

Hi Chris,
I went with Montana Floats and Keith has been very good to work with. He
shipped me all the pumps and controls for the wheels when I was building the
fuselage and has always been available to answer questions. My other reason
was cost, at the time I put my money down there was 10k difference between
the Aerocets and Montana.
On cyl head temp I was running around 400 degrees on cyl #2. To get the temp
down I made a baffle from a 5" chunk of 3" aluminum tube. The tube was
split lengthwise and slid between the cylinder and the sloped baffle. The
air flow attaches to the curved surface of the tube and flows around and
down on the cylinder. Temp came down 35-40 degrees.
Al
Moose, N526AP
---- Original Message -----
From: <rebel@dcsol.com>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 5:53 PM
Subject: Montana Floats

Helloo,

I am trying to make the choice between Montana and Aerocet floats for my
SR2500. Wondering if any of you Rebel guys have experience with Montana
floats and the Montana Float Company.

Update - SR#025 is passing through 40 hours and it just gets better and
better. Was out flying this afternoon, landing in a 10 knot crosswind is
simple in this plane. Feels like it's on rails. The only minor issue

I've

had is trying to lower CHT's on the new O-540 in the plane. At 24 square

(60F

OAT)I see around 400F and on climbs we are getting up to 460F on cylinder

#2

and #3. Baffling is tight and oil T seldom gets over 190F. Hmmmmmm....

Chris Gill
Anchorage, AK

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[Rebflyer]

Hi Chris, In answer to the float question, I've flown on the Montana floats when they were on the factory Elite. One flight, and I wasn't even float rated then. Keith Kinden apears to be a honest man, and I always look forward to seeing him during OSH. He has become a friend, and he always has been a good person to go to for info and opinions. He is respected by MAM personel as well, and has spoken at previous banquets. He has developed some aftermarket parts for the Rebel as well, so he is well in tune with the Murphy aircraft.
Now for a thought on the CHT's. If you are using the sparkplug gasket type thermocouples for your readings, they read approx. 40deg higher than a probe in the cylinder head if under the bottom plugs. Under the top plugs you'll read approx. 40 deg lower than the cyl probes. Might seem to simple a fix, but worth a shot. That was found to be true on my 0-320, and the diff was confirmed by EZ pilots and ther updraft cooling systems. Good luck, Curt M97MR



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[rebel]

Thanks Curt,

I agree, Keith has come across a good guy to deal with. I plan to fly
(commercial) down to Arlington on the 13th of July and look at his SR on
amphibs.

Regarding my CHT's, I have cylinder probes on all 6 cylinders. Keith was
having the same high temps on his O-540 equipped SR. He sugggested opening up
the bottom cowl more, adding a lip at the lower cowl exit, and adding a ramp
inside the upper cowl air inlets to smooth the flow of air into the cowl.

csg

On 6/28/02 9:09 AM, REBFLYER@AOL.COM wrote to MURPHY-REBEL:

-> Hi Chris, In answer to the float question, I've flown on the Montana floats
when they were on the factory Elite. One flight, and I wasn't even float rated
then. Keith Kinden apears to be a honest man, and I always look forward to
seeing him during OSH. He has become a friend, and he always has been a good
person to go to for info and opinions. He is respected by MAM personel as
well, and has spoken at previous banquets. He has developed some aftermarket
parts for the Rebel as well, so he is well in tune with the Murphy aircraft.
-> Now for a thought on the CHT's. If you are using the sparkplug gasket
type thermocouples for your readings, they read approx. 40deg higher than a
probe in the cylinder head if under the bottom plugs. Under the top plugs
you'll read approx. 40 deg lower than the cyl probes. Might seem to simple a
fix, but worth a shot. That was found to be true on my 0-320, and the diff was
confirmed by EZ pilots and ther updraft cooling systems. Good luck, Curt
M97MR





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[Murray and Carol Cherkas]

Yes Al

They look great

Murray Cherkas
REBEL 505


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[rebel]

hi,

before i forget, did the glareshield fabric still billow up in flight?

check out the second paragraaph of this one. after the prop pitch change,
maybe we should try our guage with the two senders on the right rear
cylinder, first with the plug sender on the bottom and then on the top. we
could switch the leads from one the probe sender to the ring sender in flite.
what u think?

ab -------- Forwarded Message ---------
Original: DATE..... 6/26/02 9:38 AM
Original: FROM..... REBFLYER@AOL.COM
Original: TO....... MURPHY-REBEL
Original: SUBJECT.. Re: Montana Floats
Original: FORUM.... murphy-rebel
Forwarded By....... REBEL on 3/15/03 1:15 PM

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with SMTP id 814297343; Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:24:01 -0800
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 13:38:06 -0400
From: Rebflyer@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com|, murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Montana Floats
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Hi Chris, In answer to the float question, I've flown on the Montana floats
when they were on the factory Elite. One flight, and I wasn't even float
rated then. Keith Kinden apears to be a honest man, and I always look forward
to seeing him during OSH. He has become a friend, and he always has been a
good person to go to for info and opinions. He is respected by MAM personel
as well, and has spoken at previous banquets. He has developed some
aftermarket parts for the Rebel as well, so he is well in tune with the
Murphy aircraft.
Now for a thought on the CHT's. If you are using the sparkplug gasket type
thermocouples for your readings, they read approx. 40deg higher than a probe
in the cylinder head if under the bottom plugs. Under the top plugs you'll
read approx. 40 deg lower than the cyl probes. Might seem to simple a fix,
but worth a shot. That was found to be true on my 0-320, and the diff was
confirmed by EZ pilots and ther updraft cooling systems. Good luck, Curt
M97MR

----- End of Forwarded Message -----



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[Walter Klatt]

We visited Montana Floats and Keith last summer when we were
passing through on our Ramble. It's definitely a first class
operation and Keith really knows Murphy airplanes. No cheap stuff
or quick and dirty solutions with his products.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com
[mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com]On Behalf Of
Scott & Leere' Aldrich
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 3:55 PM
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: RE: Montana floats


Just want to add that Montana Floats (Keith) has been
very helpful even when
installing some "other brands" of floats to a Murphy
SR or Moose. They make
a beautiful set of fore and aft float fittings, along
with ventral fins and
predrilled inspection hole doublers and covers.


Scott Aldrich
Moose #174




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[MFC]

To all builders and Moose owners,
I don't generally get involved in comments and discussions about our
products on builders sites unless I see bad info. It seems a company
called Aerotek aviation out of QC. Canada Has done just that. They made
some claims on this web that I would like to address:
1 That our floats are hand made and theirs are all automated.
well I guess I'm not sure what that means, maybe they have all robotic
riveters and sealant spreaders. if they are talking about CNC( that's
computer numerically controlled) equipment,all our hull parts,bulkheads
top decks,side skins,spreader pickups, hatches, ect. are all cut and
drilled on a 5 ft. by 12 ft. CNC cutting machine. All our landing gear
parts, rigging, hydraulic cylinders,even the box for our electronics,
comes off our in house CNC machine. We have a machine shop with both
Manual milling machines and lathes and CNC milling milling machine.
All our parts are first drawn with a computer, programmed, and then
machined. After all of that we still rivet and seal pretty much the old
fashioned way, just like every body else in this business.
2. They claim a weight of 525 lbs. and ours at 660 lbs. Now ours do
weigh 660lbs, that weight includes all rigging,steps on rigging,
electric pumps, hand pump, lines, fittings,water rudders,mounts fittings
in the aircraft,
Electronics box,water rudder cables, ect. installed on a Moose.They
say rigging materials avalible, so that must mean the don't have that
figured in to their weight. if that's the case our floats weigh about
560 lbs. in same condition.2 floats with spreader bars.
3. price, they say why pay $43,000 for ours when you can buy theirs for
$31,900? Well when you get ours you get the full package, there is
nothing else to buy, it comes complete with all attachments, rigging,
electric pump, hand pump, all hydraulic lines and fittings, Dual water
rudders, all water rudder rigging,wiring, circuit breakers, landing gear
position lights for each wheel up and down, a audio warning system that
is airspeed controlled, and adjustable, It gives a gear position audio
warning when you slow down to preset speed, a voice will announce
Landing gear up or down. also if your gear has a problem, it will
announce gear unsafe. these messages will repeat until canceled by the
mute switch. this can be hooked in to your audio panel, intercom, or
cabin speaker. Also on top of your glare shield there is a small box, in
it are 2 lights, a blue and an amber.
If all wheels are up and locked, the blue light will remain on steady,
if down and locked, the amber light will remain steady. during gear
cycle, the light (blue if wheels are going up)will blink until gear
cycle is complete. if in flight the light starts to blink, something's
wrong with the gear.
I looked for Aeroteks web site and found nothing (I'm not to good with
the internet, maybe some one could enlighten me) A check of Rasakti's
web site said nothing about floats at all. They appear to be a parts
manufacture for turbine engine gear boxes, although I don't read French
either. It would seem that a company that has all kinds of float
sizes,in both anphibs and straits + wheel skis, would at least mention
them on there web.
We now have had 5 SR3500 airplanes on our floats, 4 anphibs and one
strait. We have delivered 1set of anphibs that haven't been installed
yet( he will be flying this spring). Of the 5 that have or are flying, 4
were lycoming powered and one M14 powered. All have preformed well. We
have another set here at the factory that will be going to paint in Jan.
this set is scheduled to be mounted on a M14 moose this spring.
Currently their are 3 more being built now, with hopes that some will
also fly this summer if the builders get there airplanes flying. All in
all we hope to have about 7 or 8 mooses flying this summer. I would like
to take this opportunity to thank those that have bought our floats and
wish them well.
Bottom line is no matter what float you buy check to see if you are
getting every thing you need to mount your aircraft on them. building up
a rigging or having some one do it for you can get expensive. look at
the quality and workmanship. and most importantly, have they flown on a
Moose before. It also helps to have a reasonable customer support.
Thank you, and seasons greetings to all
Keith Kinden
Montana Float




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[Scott & Leere' Aldrich]

Just want to add that Montana Floats (Keith) has been very helpful even when
installing some "other brands" of floats to a Murphy SR or Moose. They make
a beautiful set of fore and aft float fittings, along with ventral fins and
predrilled inspection hole doublers and covers.


Scott Aldrich
Moose #174




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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Good to hear from you Keith!! Doesn't slanderous advertising just make wanna
puke!!??

I hear you and it does really have to make you suspect when a company offers
many sizes and can't offer up a single picture of a finished float or ski.
"Send us your money and we'll get a set out the door in 90days"! No thanks,
seen to many people feed that "black hole" in Quebec... for way too many
years.

I've been getting similar "bashing" for a few years with "that guy charges
way too much/hour, bring your airplane to us" schpeels by other shops and
then hear these guys whining later that they got taken for a ride with a
labour bill for over twice the hours that I would have billed them for
...and them stating that they "should have come to me in the first place".
I've learned to just chuckle and carry on with the task at hand. Generally a
year + of work lined up for the shop and right now it looks like about two!

Quality speaks and advertises for itself Keith, and I don't think you have
any problems for future orders keeping your production line spitting them
floats out! Al's you best advertiser out there, as well as (drawing a blank)
our SR friend up in Alaska.

Have a great Christmas and a Happy and PROSPEROUS New Year!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "MFC" <mfc@libby.org>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2003 6:00 PM
Subject: Montana floats

To all builders and Moose owners,
I don't generally get involved in comments and discussions about our
products on builders sites unless I see bad info. It seems a company
called Aerotek aviation out of QC. Canada Has done just that. They made
some claims on this web that I would like to address:
1 That our floats are hand made and theirs are all automated.
well I guess I'm not sure what that means, maybe they have all robotic
riveters and sealant spreaders. if they are talking about CNC( that's
computer numerically controlled) equipment,all our hull parts,bulkheads
top decks,side skins,spreader pickups, hatches, ect. are all cut and
drilled on a 5 ft. by 12 ft. CNC cutting machine. All our landing gear
parts, rigging, hydraulic cylinders,even the box for our electronics,
comes off our in house CNC machine. We have a machine shop with both
Manual milling machines and lathes and CNC milling milling machine.
All our parts are first drawn with a computer, programmed, and then
machined. After all of that we still rivet and seal pretty much the old
fashioned way, just like every body else in this business.
2. They claim a weight of 525 lbs. and ours at 660 lbs. Now ours do
weigh 660lbs, that weight includes all rigging,steps on rigging,
electric pumps, hand pump, lines, fittings,water rudders,mounts fittings
in the aircraft,
Electronics box,water rudder cables, ect. installed on a Moose.They
say rigging materials avalible, so that must mean the don't have that
figured in to their weight. if that's the case our floats weigh about
560 lbs. in same condition.2 floats with spreader bars.
3. price, they say why pay $43,000 for ours when you can buy theirs for
$31,900? Well when you get ours you get the full package, there is
nothing else to buy, it comes complete with all attachments, rigging,
electric pump, hand pump, all hydraulic lines and fittings, Dual water
rudders, all water rudder rigging,wiring, circuit breakers, landing gear
position lights for each wheel up and down, a audio warning system that
is airspeed controlled, and adjustable, It gives a gear position audio
warning when you slow down to preset speed, a voice will announce
Landing gear up or down. also if your gear has a problem, it will
announce gear unsafe. these messages will repeat until canceled by the
mute switch. this can be hooked in to your audio panel, intercom, or
cabin speaker. Also on top of your glare shield there is a small box, in
it are 2 lights, a blue and an amber.
If all wheels are up and locked, the blue light will remain on steady,
if down and locked, the amber light will remain steady. during gear
cycle, the light (blue if wheels are going up)will blink until gear
cycle is complete. if in flight the light starts to blink, something's
wrong with the gear.
I looked for Aeroteks web site and found nothing (I'm not to good with
the internet, maybe some one could enlighten me) A check of Rasakti's
web site said nothing about floats at all. They appear to be a parts
manufacture for turbine engine gear boxes, although I don't read French
either. It would seem that a company that has all kinds of float
sizes,in both anphibs and straits + wheel skis, would at least mention
them on there web.
We now have had 5 SR3500 airplanes on our floats, 4 anphibs and one
strait. We have delivered 1set of anphibs that haven't been installed
yet( he will be flying this spring). Of the 5 that have or are flying, 4
were lycoming powered and one M14 powered. All have preformed well. We
have another set here at the factory that will be going to paint in Jan.
this set is scheduled to be mounted on a M14 moose this spring.
Currently their are 3 more being built now, with hopes that some will
also fly this summer if the builders get there airplanes flying. All in
all we hope to have about 7 or 8 mooses flying this summer. I would like
to take this opportunity to thank those that have bought our floats and
wish them well.
Bottom line is no matter what float you buy check to see if you are
getting every thing you need to mount your aircraft on them. building up
a rigging or having some one do it for you can get expensive. look at
the quality and workmanship. and most importantly, have they flown on a
Moose before. It also helps to have a reasonable customer support.
Thank you, and seasons greetings to all
Keith Kinden
Montana Float

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[Michael Bleau]

its montanafloat.com but its not comilng up right now, his web site must be
down but you could phone, ask directory for montana float company in libby
montana.

From: Bruce Uvanni <buvanni@us.ibm.com>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Montana Floats
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 09:43:09 -0400

Does the Montana Float Co. have a web site. I've tried montanafloats.com
but it
comes up empty.......



BRUCE UVANNI
BUVANNI@US.IBM.COM
LOGISTICS PROJECT MANAGER
PHONE: (802) 769-4042 Tie line (446)



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[Bruce Uvanni]

Does the Montana Float Co. have a web site. I've tried montanafloats.com
but it
comes up empty.......



BRUCE UVANNI
BUVANNI@US.IBM.COM
LOGISTICS PROJECT MANAGER
PHONE: (802) 769-4042 Tie line (446)



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[RJBWoodman]

Hey Bruce, Yes they do but its coming up empty on my end as well. Try calling
Keith Kinden ( owner and great guy ) 406-293-9026 Libby ,MT
Randy Bowers



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