Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Ron, I have copied to the list for others that were following this tail
spring mounting bolt problem that we have found, with the older style of
multi-strapping the Fus-49 bulkhead for the attach bolt.

Sounds like we caught yours just in time and mine is close to follow suit!
MAM has no retrofit instructions that I know of and you're right, going to
be a nightmare working through the lightening holes in Fus-31. I haven't had
any time to get onto mine (or when I do it's been -25C) and/or to figure out
a plan of attack, but better get my butt in gear if I want to enjoy some
winter flying before mine proceeds to your stage of destruction. Removing
the pie shaped FUS-31 for access means likely removing the rudder and
dismantling all the control assembly in the back, after loosening the
elevator cables, but may be the only real option. I have a hand riveter with
a swivel head that allows straight on riveting but I'm not sure if I could
squeeze it hard enough to break the 3/16 rivet mandrels working though that
4" diameter hole (maybe could be done from the inside the tailcone with both
hands through the rear Fus bulkhead). Maybe you have an idea with the small
hole in the bottom of Fus-30, but placement would be crucial to the shape of
your rivet gun/squeezer and like you say when you are done you need to
restore all the original strength to the area. I would try to attack from
all other avenues first.

Sorry, no straight answers for this one at this stage! I changed George
Christie's to the newer style attach, but I built a whole new FUS-30
assembly when I did it so wasn't really a retro fit.

Will post some pics of your skis later.

Regards,
Wayne


----- Original Message -----
From: "R. A. Hamson" <ronfran@ca.inter.net>
To: "Wayne G. O'Shea" <oifa@irishfield.on.ca>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 2:48 PM
Subject: Tailcone Tracking

As you suggested, I checked the bulkhead - bottom tab broken right off.
Not only that but the internal Tailskid doubler straps were all broken
either side of the bolt hole.As a result it looks like the best option
is to do the FUS-84/FUS-88 installation plus the skin doubler. I don't
know if Murphy has a retrofit installation procedure as to work through
the FUS-31 holes, is going to be very difficult. Might be able to get
the part drilled but riveting will be difficult. What do you think about
cutting out a small rectangle, wide enough to work through, in the
center of the bottom tailcone skin? Once the installation is complete,
the hole would be flush filled and then one or two .032 tailcone skin
doublers installed.

Cold working in the hanger because of a strong SW wind. Temperature was
about -3C. Was able to finish my tailcone skin doubler template plus
de-rivet the straps, etc.

Go ahead and post the pictures of the skis, etc. I tried to reply
through the Rebel Forum but dcsol.com didn't like my address.
Ron

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[Legeorgen]

Ron, Wayne,

When I purchased my Rebel the tail cone was already assembled. I was able to reach through the 4" lighting hole (with some difficulty) and rivet the newer engine mount bracket to the bulkhead, over the older saddle type assemble without having to take anything apart. It's a little tricky but it can be done and you should be able to do it. Good luck.

Bruce 357R

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Thanks Bruce!

I think it's more the thought of tearing the tailfeathers off mine in -15 to -20C weather that is the big pain. Might have to build a tent around it and put the 6KW electric heater to work to allow a FEW hours of bare handed work. Mind you I spent 3 hours barehanded today removing the starter, alternator and battery from my backhoe , out on the concession road where it died yesterday, so maybe it's just priorities!!!! One way or another the fuselage repair has to get done. I was thinking of letting it go to spring, but since Ron's has broke the straps and cracked the Fus-30 sideways, I know mine will follow suit in the exact same fashion so better lick it now.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Legeorgen@aol.com (Legeorgen@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Ron, Wayne,

When I purchased my Rebel the tail cone was already assembled. I was able to reach through the 4" lighting hole (with some difficulty) and rivet the newer engine mount bracket to the bulkhead, over the older saddle type assemble without having to take anything apart. It's a little tricky but it can be done and you should be able to do it. Good luck.

Bruce 357R

[jgrant&amckenzie]

Hi Wayne
Had to reply to say my bulldozer kicked a track off the other day during a snow storm.So not wanting to shut it down out in the cold,I was out being a cribbing,jacking,frozen John Deere owner just like you.But,I have already fixed my Rebel tail.When it broke the first time I bought the tail from a wrecked Rebel and doubled the bulkhead at the layered straps on my old #049R and added the engine mount type fitting (from Couglins wrecked tail) to the bulk head then wrapped the exterior with an .040 doubler from the end of the fuselage to ahead of the front tail spring attach point.Did all of the work without any major disassembly,through bulkhead holes,very confined but doable.So far no further problems.
I now have another fuel leak and am hoping to overcome it without removing the wing and cutting a hole.
Take care, Angus

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea (oifa@irishfield.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Thanks Bruce!

I think it's more the thought of tearing the tailfeathers off mine in -15 to -20C weather that is the big pain. Might have to build a tent around it and put the 6KW electric heater to work to allow a FEW hours of bare handed work. Mind you I spent 3 hours barehanded today removing the starter, alternator and battery from my backhoe , out on the concession road where it died yesterday, so maybe it's just priorities!!!! One way or another the fuselage repair has to get done. I was thinking of letting it go to spring, but since Ron's has broke the straps and cracked the Fus-30 sideways, I know mine will follow suit in the exact same fashion so better lick it now.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Legeorgen@aol.com (Legeorgen@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Ron, Wayne,

When I purchased my Rebel the tail cone was already assembled. I was able to reach through the 4" lighting hole (with some difficulty) and rivet the newer engine mount bracket to the bulkhead, over the older saddle type assemble without having to take anything apart. It's a little tricky but it can be done and you should be able to do it. Good luck.

Bruce 357R

[Legeorgen]

Well, -15 to-12 C that's got to be around 0 F. Pretty cold for working outside with no heat. I don't blame you for procrastinating! Better but up a tent and heat the thing so you don't rush the work and forget something. I won't feel bad anymore when I have to work on mine when it's in the 30's F, here in Washington.

Bruce 357R

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[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Per Ken's idea, Ron's got his bulkhead out, while -13C or so in Ottawa yesterday (and he's not lying because I was there last night and today to discharge my Mother from Ottawa General!!), and now Ron is waiting for the parts from MAM to put it all back together and in!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Legeorgen@aol.com (Legeorgen@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Well, -15 to-12 C that's got to be around 0 F. Pretty cold for working outside with no heat. I don't blame you for procrastinating! Better but up a tent and heat the thing so you don't rush the work and forget something. I won't feel bad anymore when I have to work on mine when it's in the 30's F, here in Washington.

Bruce 357R

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Well I took advantage of two days of +1*C weather and tackled my broken Fus-49 tail spring attach problem yesterday and today.

For those that still have this old style system in your tailcone I suggest that you tackle this now before it progresses to the stage Ron's got to, as it will be less work for you pre-crack/break than after it goes full course.

For those that were waiting for a how to, YES it can be done through that 4" hole, without pulling anything else apart!! Wasn't easy and I think it cost me about a pint of blood, but it's done.

After removing the right stabilizer (easier as wires on left one for trim!) unbolted tailspring from tailcone and slipped tailspring asembly back far enough to be clear of 3/8" hole in Fus-30
Took the time to service my Scott 3200 while I had the chains and weight off it and to give thought to how to tackle the repair.
Milled a Bath tub fitting from some 6061-T6 2" x 2" x 6" long bar stock, leaving about a 1/4" thickness back and bottom x 3/16 sides.
Predrilled for 13 holes at #11 and then placed it in against the Fus-49. I jammed it in place using a long screwdriver through the smaller lightening hole in Fus-31 with a block of wood between the handle and the bottom of the fin.
Drilled and cleco'd the fitting to Fus-49 using a 360* drill. A flex drill or small pencil drill would work as well.
Center punched for the 3/8" bolt location, through the existing hole in the bottom of Fus-30
Removed and drilled in drill press.
Reinstalled and re-cleco'd.
Riveted in place with RV1619 Rivets using a 360* swivel head hand riveter.
The only way I could squeeze was a hand in the hole pulling up on one handle and a 7/8" wrench pushing down on the other handle from outside. It wasn't easy and it took me about 3 hours to pull 10 rivets.
I said the heck (but not that politely) with the 3 extra holes that I had predrilled in the center of the new fitting.
3000+ pounds of shear strength should be plenty.

Uploaded 7 pics to Rebel Fuselage. Again sorry for the size, working on it!

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea (oifa@irishfield.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Per Ken's idea, Ron's got his bulkhead out, while -13C or so in Ottawa yesterday (and he's not lying because I was there last night and today to discharge my Mother from Ottawa General!!), and now Ron is waiting for the parts from MAM to put it all back together and in!

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Legeorgen@aol.com (Legeorgen@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 8:26 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Well, -15 to-12 C that's got to be around 0 F. Pretty cold for working outside with no heat. I don't blame you for procrastinating! Better but up a tent and heat the thing so you don't rush the work and forget something. I won't feel bad anymore when I have to work on mine when it's in the 30's F, here in Washington.

Bruce 357R

[Rick Harper]

G'day Guys ....

Wayne ... I can't find the photos you posted re the tailcone cracks !?!? and I'm rather concerned ...we've done nearly 200 hrs in a year & 1/2 so far ! :-) and having lots of fun,... don't want any cracks to spoil our fun.

I've been looking for them in Mikes Photo pages ... is there another area ?

Thanks

Rick & Wendy
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea (oifa@irishfield.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Thanks Bruce!

I think it's more the thought of tearing the tailfeathers off mine in -15 to -20C weather that is the big pain. Might have to build a tent around it and put the 6KW electric heater to work to allow a FEW hours of bare handed work. Mind you I spent 3 hours barehanded today removing the starter, alternator and battery from my backhoe , out on the concession road where it died yesterday, so maybe it's just priorities!!!! One way or another the fuselage repair has to get done. I was thinking of letting it go to spring, but since Ron's has broke the straps and cracked the Fus-30 sideways, I know mine will follow suit in the exact same fashion so better lick it now.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Legeorgen@aol.com (Legeorgen@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Ron, Wayne,

When I purchased my Rebel the tail cone was already assembled. I was able to reach through the 4" lighting hole (with some difficulty) and rivet the newer engine mount bracket to the bulkhead, over the older saddle type assemble without having to take anything apart. It's a little tricky but it can be done and you should be able to do it. Good luck.

Bruce 357R

[Wayne G. O'Shea]

Rick, they are in Rebel-Fuselage and they should still come up if you just hit new and set the time period to about 10days. I would think with #541 you would have the new style two piece FUS-84/88 back there all ready and you should be alright.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Harper (rjwh@ozemail.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


G'day Guys ....

Wayne ... I can't find the photos you posted re the tailcone cracks !?!? and I'm rather concerned ...we've done nearly 200 hrs in a year & 1/2 so far ! :-) and having lots of fun,... don't want any cracks to spoil our fun.

I've been looking for them in Mikes Photo pages ... is there another area ?

Thanks

Rick & Wendy
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea (oifa@irishfield.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Thanks Bruce!

I think it's more the thought of tearing the tailfeathers off mine in -15 to -20C weather that is the big pain. Might have to build a tent around it and put the 6KW electric heater to work to allow a FEW hours of bare handed work. Mind you I spent 3 hours barehanded today removing the starter, alternator and battery from my backhoe , out on the concession road where it died yesterday, so maybe it's just priorities!!!! One way or another the fuselage repair has to get done. I was thinking of letting it go to spring, but since Ron's has broke the straps and cracked the Fus-30 sideways, I know mine will follow suit in the exact same fashion so better lick it now.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Legeorgen@aol.com (Legeorgen@aol.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:44 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Ron, Wayne,

When I purchased my Rebel the tail cone was already assembled. I was able to reach through the 4" lighting hole (with some difficulty) and rivet the newer engine mount bracket to the bulkhead, over the older saddle type assemble without having to take anything apart. It's a little tricky but it can be done and you should be able to do it. Good luck.

Bruce 357R

[Rick Harper]

Thanks Wayne ! (I did mean to type Tailcone Cracking ..not tracking :-)

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea (oifa@irishfield.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Rick, they are in Rebel-Fuselage and they should still come up if you just hit new and set the time period to about 10days. I would think with #541 you would have the new style two piece FUS-84/88 back there all ready and you should be alright.

Cheers,
Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Harper (rjwh@ozemail.com.au)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 4:57 PM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


G'day Guys ....

Wayne ... I can't find the photos you posted re the tailcone cracks !?!? and I'm rather concerned ...we've done nearly 200 hrs in a year & 1/2 so far ! :-) and having lots of fun,... don't want any cracks to spoil our fun.

I've been looking for them in Mikes Photo pages ... is there another area ?

Thanks

Rick & Wendy
541R

----- Original Message -----
From: Wayne G. O'Shea (oifa@irishfield.on.ca)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: Tailcone Tracking - Rebel TS attach bolt


Thanks Bruce!

I think it's more the thought of tearing the tailfeathers off mine in -15 to -20C weather that is the big pain. Might have to build a tent around it and put the 6KW electric heater to work to allow a FEW hours of bare handed work. Mind you I spent 3 hours barehanded today removing the starter, alternator and battery from my backhoe , out on the concession road where it died yesterday, so maybe it's just priorities!!!! One way or another the fuselage repair has to get done. I was thinking of letting it go to spring, but since Ron's has broke the straps and cracked the Fus-30 sideways, I know mine will follow suit in the exact same fashion so better lick it now.

Cheers,
Wayne