swing up doors

[Mike Davis]

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: swing up doors
Message-Id: <E10AEZ4-0006z3-00@mail2.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 09:55:03 -0500


On the swing-up doors -

If you get some extra square door frame tubing, it can be fitted
inside the original frame (don't cut the top of the door), and this will
give you swing-up windows. A few builders figured that was too much work -
believe me, you'll want those windows !!

It's then just a case of move the hinges to the top of the window,
and the top of the door, and add an air shock strut from a car rear
window.....

You may have to change the shape of the bottom front of the
door slightly, to clear the strut - this usually only means bringing
it back an inch or so, and sharpening the curve a bit ....

Curt can give you more details ...

.....bobp

----------------------------orig.---------------------------------
At 09:45 PM 2/8/99 EST, you wrote:

I'd have to concur with Bob P's comments on Met-All. We used to polish
DC-3's, 6's and Convairs in the Marines with the stuff. Lasted the longest

of

any of the stuff we tried. That's why everything on our Rebel will be
painted.

Lonnie: The "gear fix" is where I'm at right now...along with doing

something

along the line of Curt & Bill's mod for the swing-up doors. Are most of

the

folks putting the larger engines, i.e., 0-320's & Subaru's doing the .032
corner wraps? Any other mods on the front?

Brian: We got a 'profile' to work on the paint scheme from Murphy. I can

send

it.

Those folks on floats...are the Murphy recommended positions of the fuel

sumps

adequate? Not being a float pilot yet is there a better position on the
fuselage for the Transponder antenna then under the cabin belly...outside

of a

top mounted antenna?

Paul & Peg
S/N 374

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[Mike Davis]

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From: "Alister Yeoman" <yeoman@voyager.co.nz>
To: "Murphy Rebel" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: Re: Swing up doors
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 17:39:45 +1200
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Hi Curt,

Thanks for the instant feedback on that, I'll pass that on to my man and if
he has any queries I'll get back to you.

Sounds like a good system.

Alister




----------

From: Rebflyer@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Swing up doors
Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 2:10 PM

Hi Alister,
We decided to put swing ups on our aircraft and have been very happy

with

that decision. The improvements they seem to give, seeing how I never

had the

standard style, are these. They don't swing forward and ding up the door

or

the strut. Access is improved. I can pull the seat foward and load the

back

and still get in easily. When the door is open it stays open. I tried

to

open one in flight one time. It opened easily, but to push it up to the

bottom

of the wing required me to lean out and at eighty mph I knew I would

loose my

glasses. I still am going to try with just taking off with them in the

up and

latched position. We installed them to the top hinge with rivenuts in

from the

bottom and screws from the top so we could remove them totally in a

minute or

so. Our main goal was to have seaplane style doors for the floats. I

wanted

to know the doors would stay open for me. I also had this mental picture

of me

doing preflight on floats, and as I got near the long standard type door,

I

would begin to fall. Being the basic clumsy type I know this is going to
happen. Well, I could also picture me grabbing for something, getting

the

back of the door, and then me and the door ending up getting wet.
Our configuration is something like this. We added a 2 1/2 inch

high by

11 1/2 inch long wedge to the forward door frame. That's all that's

needed to

clear the strut. We then used the frame stock sent by MAM and filling it

with

sand, rolling the outer area with a small piece of rolled steel, formed

it to

the door opening. The latch system is a three pin bellcrank in the

center/

front of the door that drives one pin to the front, one to the back, and

one

to the bottom. The bottom one also goes into a latch attached to the

bottom of

the wing, just forward of the main spar and gas tank area. We thought

about a

gas strut, but opted not for now. We also increased the size of the

window

somewhat. I have started to make a print acouple of times, but I guess I

get

more involved in flying it or working on the floats. I really am going to

try

to do that this year. If I can answer any other questions, drop me a

line and

I'll do my best. Curt, Rebel N97MR

[Mike Davis]

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To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com> (Murphy Rebel)
From: Bob Patterson <bob.patterson@canrem.com>
Subject: Re: Swing up doors
Message-Id: <E10Qwuz-0004dY-00@mail4.toronto.istar.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1999 12:30:46 -0500


Hi Alister !

Have seen at least 4 different variations on swing-up doors. Most have
gas struts, which means you can't latch them to the bottom of the wing.
Don't know of anyone who has flown with them open without being latched.

One consideration is making the windows hinge upward, as well, as
this makes them easier to manage - if the window is open, & latched to
the wing, you can then just swing the door up, as well....

Most folks have had to carve out about a 4" chunk at the bottom front
of the door, to clear the strut, although others have just raised the
whole door sill.

Swing-up doors do make it a little easier for seaplane use, but NONE
of the guys here on floats or amphibs have swing up doors ! I haven't
really had any problem with mine, either way, and it IS a LOT of work
to change the doors, as well as adding weight.

I don't want to take anything away from some of the excellent work
that has gone into some of the door mechanisms, or other improvements
that have been done, but they DO involve a LOT of extra planning & effort.
My suggestion is to go with the standard doors, get it flying (!!) -
then change it later, IF it needs it !!

Too many builders get caught up in "improving" the Rebel for imagined
reasons, then complain that it's taking too long to build and weighs too
much !! Things like electric flaps are neat, and I have seen several very
nice installations - I have also seen some that were downright dangerous !!
If you LIKE to tinker, and don't care how long it takes to build your
Rebel, by all means, indulge yourself - that's the advantage of a
home-built, but please, be careful !!
The standard flaps work fine IF you change the handle to a more-ergonomic
"L" shape, and add an extra hole for negative, if you have a large enough
engine ! (If it ain't broke, don't fix it !)

Hopefully, as builders get more feedback from flying Rebels, especially
folks like you who are really USING the airplane, they will realize that
most of their fears were unnecessary - it really IS ok, the basic
engineering IS sound, and the Rebel flies great !!

There ARE things that we have learned (recently) that DO help maintenance
and durability, and these are relatively easy to do while building - just
ask the other builders - folks like yourself !! Some other things I see
people doing to correct imagined problems are actually going to CAUSE
real problems later !
Every 'little' "improvement" usually results in several more changes
being needed down the road - more weight, more complications, more time,
and possibly much more difficult to repair later, as standard parts will
no longer fit . These things can also effect resale value, insurance
costs, and cause difficulties in checking other people out to fly your
Rebel....

Sorry - better get off my soap box !! It's just that the Rebel is
SUCH a good flying airplane, right out-of-the-box !!!! (Of course,
ANYTHING can be made BETTER ....) :-)

.....bobp

--------------------------------orig.----------------------------------
At 10:21 AM 3/27/99 +1200, you wrote:

Hi there,

I have been asked by another Rebel builder to enquire about the swing up
doors that appear to be around.

Are they any good? are they easier to operate? can they be opened in
flight? any feedback on this would be appreciated.

thanks

Alister

email: yeoman@voyager.co.nz

[Mike Davis]

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From: "Tim Carter" <tlcarter@email.msn.com>
To: "'Murphy Rebel'" <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Subject: RE: Swing up doors
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:09:31 -0700
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Curt:

Do you have a picture?

Tim
#438

-----Original Message-----
From: Alister Yeoman [mailto:yeoman@voyager.co.nz]
Sent: Friday, March 26, 1999 9:40 PM
To: Murphy Rebel
Subject: Re: Swing up doors


Hi Curt,

Thanks for the instant feedback on that, I'll pass that on to my man and if
he has any queries I'll get back to you.

Sounds like a good system.

Alister




----------

From: Rebflyer@aol.com
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: Swing up doors
Date: Saturday, March 27, 1999 2:10 PM

Hi Alister,
We decided to put swing ups on our aircraft and have been very happy

with

that decision. The improvements they seem to give, seeing how I never

had the

standard style, are these. They don't swing forward and ding up the door

or

the strut. Access is improved. I can pull the seat foward and load the

back

and still get in easily. When the door is open it stays open. I tried

to

open one in flight one time. It opened easily, but to push it up to the

bottom

of the wing required me to lean out and at eighty mph I knew I would

loose my

glasses. I still am going to try with just taking off with them in the

up and

latched position. We installed them to the top hinge with rivenuts in

from the

bottom and screws from the top so we could remove them totally in a

minute or

so. Our main goal was to have seaplane style doors for the floats. I

wanted

to know the doors would stay open for me. I also had this mental picture

of me

doing preflight on floats, and as I got near the long standard type door,

I

would begin to fall. Being the basic clumsy type I know this is going to
happen. Well, I could also picture me grabbing for something, getting

the

back of the door, and then me and the door ending up getting wet.
Our configuration is something like this. We added a 2 1/2 inch

high by

11 1/2 inch long wedge to the forward door frame. That's all that's

needed to

clear the strut. We then used the frame stock sent by MAM and filling it

with

sand, rolling the outer area with a small piece of rolled steel, formed

it to

the door opening. The latch system is a three pin bellcrank in the

center/

front of the door that drives one pin to the front, one to the back, and

one

to the bottom. The bottom one also goes into a latch attached to the

bottom of

the wing, just forward of the main spar and gas tank area. We thought

about a

gas strut, but opted not for now. We also increased the size of the

window

somewhat. I have started to make a print acouple of times, but I guess I

get

more involved in flying it or working on the floats. I really am going to

try

to do that this year. If I can answer any other questions, drop me a

line and

I'll do my best. Curt, Rebel N97MR

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