R - Dave Fife's Hoerner wing tips

Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Hi everybody !

As most of you know, when Dave Fife made the first set of
his Hoerner wing tips for the Rebel, he and Curt Martin fitted them
to Curt's Rebel and did a thorough and scientific study of their
effects on performance. They flew a full series of tests, measuring
takeoff distance, speeds in 2 directions, checked with GPS, etc.
They then landed, changed to the new tips, added fuel to be the
same weight as the first tests, and flew them all over again.

They found a reduction in takeoff distance of more than 20%,
and a couple of mph increase in cruise, and a couple of mph reduction
in stall speed. The strongest comment was how much the tips improved
the low speed controllability and feel. Several Rebels near us
have reported similar results, as well as excellent quality and
good fit of the tips (combined with Dave's tail tips, a savings of
over 60 hours in build time was a nice bonus !)

--------------------------------------------

This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!

She got light on her wheels MUCH sooner than before,
and climbed like the proverbial homesick angel !!! A VERY noticeable
improvement. The approach and landing showed a marked improvement
in speed control - it was easier to peg the speed exactly where
I wanted it. I like them !

---------------------------------------------

Well, that's it, so far. Next I'm going to add the
Angus McKenzie STOL kit (full length wing cuff & fences), on my
way to the ultimate hot-rod Rebel !! Should have her painted
soon, too - so she'll be all ready for the big Ramble next year.
Hope you can join us for at least part of the trip !!

.......bobp

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Rick Harper · Post by **Rick Harper** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

G'day Bob !

How much $$$ are we talking for these wizz bang tips ?

and please elaborate on the "Angus McKenzie STOL Kit" thingies
(I am VERY happy with our Rebel ... but anything that improves things is always worth looking at ! :-)

I seem to remember that some have stated that the wing vortices generators have detracted from their Rebels' performance .... yes ?
Are Angus' ones different / better ?

Also ..... I have fitted a SCOTT 3400 tailwheel , which has improved ground handling immensely .... but I sometimes get HORRENDOUS tailwheel shimmy upon landing (mainly / always on tar) .... I suspect it has something to do with the angle of the wheel / pivot point in relation to the vertical (which it ISN'T ... as it is laying forward somewhat)
I suspect that the pivot shaft should be more vertical , even, perhaps laid rearwards to stop this effect ... any ideas guys !?!?!
What do you reckon Wayne ?

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R

PS Dave & Francine Ricker are happy campers ..... I took 'em for a quick blatt in our REBEL last Friday ....
there's talk of going home & getting stuck into their ELITE !

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson (bob.patterson@canrem.com)
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com (murphy-rebel@dcsol.com)
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: R - Dave Fife's Hoerner wing tips

Hi everybody !

As most of you know, when Dave Fife made the first set of
his Hoerner wing tips for the Rebel, he and Curt Martin fitted them
to Curt's Rebel and did a thorough and scientific study of their
effects on performance. They flew a full series of tests, measuring
takeoff distance, speeds in 2 directions, checked with GPS, etc.
They then landed, changed to the new tips, added fuel to be the
same weight as the first tests, and flew them all over again.

They found a reduction in takeoff distance of more than 20%,
and a couple of mph increase in cruise, and a couple of mph reduction
in stall speed. The strongest comment was how much the tips improved
the low speed controllability and feel. Several Rebels near us
have reported similar results, as well as excellent quality and
good fit of the tips (combined with Dave's tail tips, a savings of
over 60 hours in build time was a nice bonus !)

--------------------------------------------

This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!

She got light on her wheels MUCH sooner than before,
and climbed like the proverbial homesick angel !!! A VERY noticeable
improvement. The approach and landing showed a marked improvement
in speed control - it was easier to peg the speed exactly where
I wanted it. I like them !

---------------------------------------------

Well, that's it, so far. Next I'm going to add the
Angus McKenzie STOL kit (full length wing cuff & fences), on my
way to the ultimate hot-rod Rebel !! Should have her painted
soon, too - so she'll be all ready for the big Ramble next year.
Hope you can join us for at least part of the trip !!

.......bobp

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jgrant&amckenzie · Post by **jgrant&amckenzie** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Hi Rick
Email me at jgrant@lweb.net (jgrant@lweb.net) and I will get you some info about the STOL kit.There are pics of our Rebel(one showing the cuffs)on www.barnstormers.com under "piston engines" then search 0-290.
Best regards, Angus

Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Bobp:

Glad to hear that the Fife tips works well for you. I have mine stored and
ready for installation when the time comes (hopefully soon).

Do you have any wing tip installation photos you might wish to post?

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Sumner, Washington

This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!

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Falcon · Post by **Falcon** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Terry,
You will love how they fit. I used nut plates and screws to install them
and they were a perfect fit worth every dime of the extra cost just not to have
to screw around with the murphy junk tips.
Rick D.
Rebel 404R (painting complete. maybe springtime first flight)

Terry Dazey wrote:

Bobp:

Glad to hear that the Fife tips works well for you. I have mine stored and
ready for installation when the time comes (hopefully soon).

Do you have any wing tip installation photos you might wish to post?

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Sumner, Washington
This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!
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brian amendala · Post by **brian amendala** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

What's the price?

From: Terry Dazey <dazey@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: R - Dave Fife's Hoerner wing tips
Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2002 06:22:29 -0800

Bobp:

Glad to hear that the Fife tips works well for you. I have mine stored and
ready for installation when the time comes (hopefully soon).

Do you have any wing tip installation photos you might wish to post?

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Sumner, Washington
This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!

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Mike Davis · Post by **Mike Davis** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

I had Colleen delete the standard tips from my kit when I ordered it, and
the credit was about 1/2 of what Dave told me he expects the SR tips are
going to sell for... which is the same as the Rebel tips by the way.

Mike
195SR

----- Original Message -----
From: "Falcon" <rsdec1@isp01.net>
To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 3:41 PM
Subject: Re: R - Dave Fife's Hoerner wing tips

Terry,
You will love how they fit. I used nut plates and screws to install

them

and they were a perfect fit worth every dime of the extra cost just not to

have

to screw around with the murphy junk tips.
Rick D.
Rebel 404R (painting complete. maybe springtime first flight)

Terry Dazey wrote:

Bobp:

Glad to hear that the Fife tips works well for you. I have mine stored

and

ready for installation when the time comes (hopefully soon).

Do you have any wing tip installation photos you might wish to post?

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Sumner, Washington
This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Hi Rick !

I think they go for about $570 USD a pair - I know that hurts
you even more than it does us !! Our dollar ("the Canadian Peso")
is only worth about 54 cents US !!!!

Maybe Dave will chime in with the current price ....

The McKenzie STOL kit is a full length metal cuff for the
leading edge - sticks out and down about 3" or so, and includes
extra rib sections, and wing fences to straighten the airflow.
(Like the Robertson and Baron STOL kits for the Cessna and Beaver)
Several of the 'extreme' amphib pilots think it is a very worthwhile
addition. I can likely tell you a bit more in a couple of months,
after I get mine installed, and the Rebel painted, and a new
windshield installed, and .....

I guess the others have answered your tailwheel shimmy
question - I had it too, until I dumped the Maule TW and got a
Scott 3200. If you can get the shaft vertical or even trailing,
that should fix it. Depending on the type of tailspring, you
could also try shortening it a bit.

.....bobp

----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------------
At 07:28 PM 11/4/02 +1100, you wrote:

G'day Bob !

How much $$$ are we talking for these wizz bang tips ?

and please elaborate on the "Angus McKenzie STOL Kit" thingies
(I am VERY happy with our Rebel ... but anything that improves things is

always worth looking at ! :-)

I seem to remember that some have stated that the wing vortices generators

have detracted from their Rebels' performance .... yes ?

Are Angus' ones different / better ?

Also ..... I have fitted a SCOTT 3400 tailwheel , which has improved ground

handling immensely .... but I sometimes get HORRENDOUS tailwheel shimmy upon
landing (mainly / always on tar) .... I suspect it has something to do with
the angle of the wheel / pivot point in relation to the vertical (which it
ISN'T ... as it is laying forward somewhat)

I suspect that the pivot shaft should be more vertical , even, perhaps laid

rearwards to stop this effect ... any ideas guys !?!?!

What do you reckon Wayne ?

Rick & Wendy Harper
541R

PS Dave & Francine Ricker are happy campers ..... I took 'em for a quick

blatt in our REBEL last Friday ....

there's talk of going home & getting stuck into their ELITE !
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Patterson
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Sent: Sunday, November 03, 2002 11:26 AM
Subject: R - Dave Fife's Hoerner wing tips

Hi everybody !

As most of you know, when Dave Fife made the first set of
his Hoerner wing tips for the Rebel, he and Curt Martin fitted them
to Curt's Rebel and did a thorough and scientific study of their
effects on performance. They flew a full series of tests, measuring
takeoff distance, speeds in 2 directions, checked with GPS, etc.
They then landed, changed to the new tips, added fuel to be the
same weight as the first tests, and flew them all over again.

They found a reduction in takeoff distance of more than 20%,
and a couple of mph increase in cruise, and a couple of mph reduction
in stall speed. The strongest comment was how much the tips improved
the low speed controllability and feel. Several Rebels near us
have reported similar results, as well as excellent quality and
good fit of the tips (combined with Dave's tail tips, a savings of
over 60 hours in build time was a nice bonus !)

--------------------------------------------

This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!

She got light on her wheels MUCH sooner than before,
and climbed like the proverbial homesick angel !!! A VERY noticeable
improvement. The approach and landing showed a marked improvement
in speed control - it was easier to peg the speed exactly where
I wanted it. I like them !

---------------------------------------------

Well, that's it, so far. Next I'm going to add the
Angus McKenzie STOL kit (full length wing cuff & fences), on my
way to the ultimate hot-rod Rebel !! Should have her painted
soon, too - so she'll be all ready for the big Ramble next year.
Hope you can join us for at least part of the trip !!

.......bobp

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Bob Patterson · Post by **Bob Patterson** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Hi Terry !

Sorry, no photos - but there's not much to shoot ! You just
take them out of the box and slide them onto the wing, drill holes,
and fasten !!! :-) (after a bit of touch-up sanding ...)

.....bobp

-----------------------------------orig.-----------------------------
At 06:22 AM 11/5/02 -0800, you wrote:

Bobp:

Glad to hear that the Fife tips works well for you. I have mine stored and
ready for installation when the time comes (hopefully soon).

Do you have any wing tip installation photos you might wish to post?

Your Pilot Pal,
Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

Sumner, Washington
This is a very delayed, totally UN-scientific flight test
report on my Rebel with the Fife Hoerner tips installed. I put them
on over 2 months ago, and flew them out of a grass strip for the
first flight. Here are my comments and observations:

Wheeeeee !!! Yaaaaahooooooo !!!

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Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

brian amendala wrote:

What's the price?
Brian:

Brian:

I took delivery of my tips in Jan. 2002. My thoughts were to get them in hand
before Dave got busy building his Cozy.

tips $560.00
elevator/rudder $210.00
aileron rod covers $25.00
Shipping $70.00

Total $865.00 U.S.

The workmanship is GREAT! I posted a photo of the (uninstalled) tips on the
Northwest Rebel Aircraft site if you want to take a peek.

http://communities.msn.com/NWRebelExperimentalAircraft

Best to double check with Dave on current pricing though.

Your Pilot Pal,

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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David Fife · Post by **David Fife** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

To all,
The following is correct except shipping. Those cost
are different depending on what your zip code is and
what country you are in. If you are out of the USA you
may be charged taxes. All countries are different.

Dave Fife
3D composite Aircraft Parts
aircrafttips@yahoo.com
248-627-4367

--- Terry Dazey <dazey@earthlink.net> wrote:

brian amendala wrote:

What's the price?
Brian:
Brian:

I took delivery of my tips in Jan. 2002. My
thoughts were to get them in hand
before Dave got busy building his Cozy.

tips $560.00
elevator/rudder $210.00
aileron rod covers $25.00
Shipping $70.00

Total $865.00 U.S.

The workmanship is GREAT! I posted a photo of the
(uninstalled) tips on the
Northwest Rebel Aircraft site if you want to take a
peek.

http://communities.msn.com/NWRebelExperimentalAircraft

Best to double check with Dave on current pricing
though.

Your Pilot Pal,

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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brian amendala · Post by **brian amendala** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

Hey Terry it's Brian,

I live down in Olympia and it's funny because I fly the rebel and my dad
flies a Long EZ. I guess great minds think a like huh!? About your tips,
have they been installed? Has the rebel made it's first flight? If it has
let me know how it performs with those tips.

Thanks,

Brian

From: Terry Dazey <dazey@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: <murphy-rebel@dcsol.com>
To: murphy-rebel@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: R - Dave Fife's Hoerner wing tips
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 07:29:26 -0800

brian amendala wrote:

What's the price?
Brian:
Brian:

I took delivery of my tips in Jan. 2002. My thoughts were to get them in
hand
before Dave got busy building his Cozy.

tips $560.00
elevator/rudder $210.00
aileron rod covers $25.00
Shipping $70.00

Total $865.00 U.S.

The workmanship is GREAT! I posted a photo of the (uninstalled) tips on
the
Northwest Rebel Aircraft site if you want to take a peek.

http://communities.msn.com/NWRebelExperimentalAircraft

Best to double check with Dave on current pricing though.

Your Pilot Pal,

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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Terry Dazey · Post by **Terry Dazey** » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:33 pm

on 11/9/02 5:04 PM, brian amendala at n667ba@hotmail.com wrote:

About your tips,

have they been installed?

No. They were purchased in Jan. 2002 and are going to be sanded, primed and
stored until they are ready to be installed.

I am working on the Fuselage Chapter now. I am up to the cabin area
heading towards the firewall.

Have fun, fly safe.

Terry Dazey
Rebel 662

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