Steam gauges versus EFIS

[RickMuller2004]

I started this saga by taking a look at the gauges I had that my Dad gave me. They came out of his Lancair when he decomissioned it. Most are in good shape. The Attitude indicator needs to be rebuilt ($350 at Century Instruments), I'll need a vacuum pump ($400), I'll need a vacuum regulator ($180), and I'll need to get the airspeed indicator recalibrated and labeled ($200). After 30 minutes of look at this stuff I noted the tab was growing quickly and I had just gotten started. I have the engine monitoring under control as I am using a Chevy LS-1 and a full engine monitor system is $530 and it monitors hundreds of variables including the usual suspects (RPM, Manifold Pressure, oil temp, etc.) through the OBDII interface. Hence I am focused on "flight" instruments. None the less, the tab is climbing as is the complexity.... how do you drive a vacuum pump... I could go to electric gyro's... ok the tab continues to climb.

I took a look at the Dynon family of products. The basic system (D60) starts at $1900. It is a 7" diagonal display and covers all the basic flight instruments (airspeed, attitude, DG, remote compass, rate of climb, altitude, etc.). For another $130 you can get a Li-ion battery that will keep the system running for 1-2 hours after your electrical system dies. The pink cadillac version is a bigger number depending on how fancy you want to get... but $4-10k. For the basic fly around guy the $1900 D-60 model looks pretty good, is simple to install, and appears to cost less than a set of new or refurbished steam gauges.

What experience has anyone had with Dynon or other EFIS products?

Rick Muller
SR70

[snowyriver]

I put the 10" and the 7" sceens in my rebel. The 7" is very small and the font isn't easily read-especially for an older (53) pilot. The larger one rocks. I have had great experiences with the Dynon staff and their products. I really like my skyview. CW

[fadarnell]

Hi Rick,

Fred here with SR066. I have a Dynon D-180 on the right side serving up EFIS and Engine monitoring, and a GRT Sport on the left for EFIS and Nav. I also have the battery backup you mention in the Dynon. You can't go wrong with either company, quality and support have been outstanding.

Fred Darnell
N2500V, SR2500 IO-540 Trike
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49676956@N ... 822638047/

[Elite773]

We are using two 10" Dynon, not because we have money to burn but because were are running dual electronic ignition. The whole package we have fits together with complete redundancy and with the added benefit of an overall weight saving (including the standby battery). We have our own standby battery not the Dynon battery backup which wouldn't work for us. Total redundancy is not a requirement except that when everything goes through one display then obviously it's failure would be a problem.

The Dynon Skyview design for a redundant EFIS and engine monitor uses a network system between components. The displays react smoothly and with a good refresh rate on airspeed and altimeter and other data. They have a good website and a forum to give you an idea of how others are doing with it. We have had them in now for over a year and in excess of 100 hours. We had to return one display and one temperature sensor which were quickly replaced. This happened quite early after the install but it has been solid ever since. Their technical staff has been excellent and so far it has been quite a positive experience.

If you were to buy instruments for all the things this system will do it is a cheaper way to go but if you just want the minimum requirement of instruments then maybe not. However, it is just way too cool to see the runway image come up on the ADI.

Bob 773E

[Jerry Folkerts]

Bob has some good advice. It depends on your wallet and your mission. I struggled with this for my Super Rebel (still under construction) and in the end, I elected to go with traditional gauges and a VM 1000C Engine Monitor, and plan on an Adventure Pilot 720 for VFR navigation. My goal was day/night VFR, although I will likely not fly much at night. I trolled Vans Air Force Forum for over a year, and picked up things used along the way. I stuck with people well known on the site, and Stein Brauch, who does a lot of the avionics overhauls in the RV community. He often resells items at a good discount and is very good about providing advice/assistance while you are installing. Here's my list of purchases for comparison:

$850.00 Tru-Trak ADI-3 (electric)
$749.00 I-Fly
$695.00 KT-76A
$500.00 VMS 1000C (complete with probes for six cylinder)
$910.00 Digitrak (single axis autopilot)
$200.00 Tru Trak Upgrades (larger servo and mounting brackets for Moose)
$275.00 PMA 1000
$88.63 Apollo Encoder
$80.00 ELT
TBD Antenna's
$450.00 Altimeter (certified)
$400.00 Airspeed (certified)
$118.43 VSI
$150.00 Precision Vertical Compass
TBD CO2 Monitor
$215.00 KI-203
$300.00 KN53 VOR

It would be difficult to do this any less expensive. You will also find that there is still good support for VM engine monitors by third party individuals. VM was bought by JPM and morphed into the current line.

Now, if I was going EFIS, I would take a serious look at the new MGL wireless daylight readable system, the i-EFIS. It appears to be good value for the money,

With all EFIS systems, you need to look at the history of evolution, and how frequently they discontinue support for older systems.

Just some thoughts.
Best,
Jerry Folkerts

[snowyriver]

Looks like about $6000 there. You can get a 10" screen from Dynon with moving map GPS, synthetic vision, auto pilot capability (you buy the servos) engine monitoring, and more for $4835. The display will give you more info than you'll want, probably. They have a good track record and "first" party support. And the 10" screen weighs about the same as ONE gyro instrument!

I looked at MGL too and I thought their screen was way too busy for my tastes. BTW, nothing against steam gauges; I would have been just as happy with them I'm sure but am very happy with the Dynon stuff and the company.

[Dale]

$4835 for dynon skyveiw.... that just gets you in the door. Did a cost for skyveiw with the basic options and came near $7500. I think I'll look a little closer to dynon's D180 system with basic options for under 4k.

[snowyriver]

Oops, Dale, you're right. You'd be right at $6000 to get the big screen with engine monitoring. I definitely wouldn't go with the 7" screen. Craig

[Jerry Folkerts]

6000 yes, but note it includes autopilot with servos, comm and nav radio etc. I like the Dynon as well, but remember to add in thermocouples, ahars etc. I had Dynon price it out for me and it became more pricey than I expected.

[RickMuller2004]

Interesting dialog and debate here. After my initial post I am leaning away from the Skyview or D-60 model for the reasons one sees with the posts... $6k-7k, 8k, ,9k,....etc. The D-100 does most of what I am needing and then some. An comments on the D100 vs Skyview beyond cost? A D-100 appears to be around $4k... round numbers.

Rick Muller
SR70

[Dale]

Rick,

I started out with pricing out the basic skyview system, but as you found out the cost quickly started rising (although there are some great features); But would we use them for our type of flying?

Now the choice would be between the D100 and D180 systems. Cost wise they are about a $1000 apart (roughly pending on options). Myself, I think I'm leaning more to the D180 system... unless there is a solid reason why I should take one step down to the D100.