Invitation

[Rebel541]

I normally stay on the sidelines for things like this, but I find this whole situation simply wrong. Now the truth comes out. Mike et al have worked tirelessly to host this site, and have generated years of content. I find it very helpful to be able to search the archives and photos to locate information on whatever issue I am facing. There is nothing wrong with the Murphy Builders Site. If you recall, the founders of the recently generated Murphy Owners site had a dispute with Mike when he upgraded this site several years ago. Since then, they dropped off the list. Now, they have used the opportunity of the transfer of the Murphy Builders Server from Mike to Bob as an opportunity to build their own, and now they are moving to transfer the content effectively rendering this site ineffective. This is simply wrong.

I urge the owners of this site to use whatever legal means available to protect the copyright of this material from being transferred. I know one individual decided not to participate in the new site because of copyright/legal concerns. That was the "committees" intent all along.

Again, this whole situation is simply wrong and is the result of a lingering dispute between the organizer of the new site and Mike Davis. Members of this site should not support such behavior.

My two cents and I will continue to support Mike Davis and Bob Patterson.

Jerry Folkerts

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G’day Jerry ( and to Geoff in New Zealand – with kit 778 ) !

Rick “Biggus” Harper in Oz here …
Just read your post – and sadly, I feel compelled to write a reply, as some of your comments are a tad off the mark – and, I feel - misleading which is disappointing for myself and others who are similarly linked …

First off – I only “found out” about the sale of M.A.M. a few weeks ago – when it was made “public knowledge” ….. ( and I must admit to having more than a few concerns – as I am approaching the completion of our second Rebel build … and the thought of the possible loss of access to future needed components, DOES worry me somewhat )
Then – within a very short time span – I find out that Mike has announced - that he’s selling his Moose project – and moving away / getting out of hosting the Builders site !!! …. And I’m thinking - HO-LEE-CRAP … now we ARE screwed !

Mike has helped my sorry butt out on many occasions – as I freely admit to be a class one dumb ass when it comes to computer stuff ! … and I for one would have been at an utter loss were it not for Mike’s help ( computer stuff MIGHT seem simple to some – but NOT to me ! )

THEN I get a phone call from a fellow Rebel builder – Tim in Iowa – asking IF I would consider helping out on a newly formed site – that was going to help and support all Murphy builders and owners – and ( with all the aforementioned stuff still whirling around in my head ) - of course, ….. I said - Yes !
( I’ve been a “serial volunteer” with a passion for all things aviation all my life – and this is a subject very close to my heart )

I only took myself ( with the help of Mike – again ) OFF the Builders list …. when I was leaving on my big trip around the States last year – as I couldn’t leave THAT much mail building up on my computer while I was away ….
I didn’t get BACK ON the list – until a couple of months ago ( with – you guessed it – Mike’s help – again … ( Ta Mike ! ) .. as we have been FLAT OUT working on our property – and I just did NOT have the time to sit at the computer & do hours of emailing every night ….. ( and I am bloody AMAZED that Mike OR Wayne ( O’Shea ) EVER find the time to get ANYTHING else done – due to amount of time they do – for all us builders & owners !!! )

Hence - your comments about : “the founders of the recently generated Murphy Owners site had a dispute with Mike when he upgraded this site several years ago. Since then, they dropped off the list.” - Is therefore without basis – for my part at least – and I know at least, that Tim is in that same boat

Likewise your assertions that : “Now, they have used the opportunity of the transfer of the Murphy Builders Server from Mike to Bob as an opportunity to build their own, and now they are moving to transfer the content effectively rendering this site ineffective. This is simply wrong.” IS - “simply wrong” and utterly misleading – in it’s entirety !

We have been talking WITH Bob for some time – trying to HELP out wherever we can – and he knows that !

I’ve known Bob for almost 20 years – we’ve met twice now, at Oshkosh – and he has always been a generous and informative bloke …….. AND - he has been “my rock” for ALL of that time, and I honestly don’t know where I would have ended up were it not for Bob’s ( and Wayne’s ) help and advice over the years … and I would REALLY like to think that I can STILL call Bob a good friend – to this day !

I respect both him and Wayne, ( and Mike – obviously ) and appreciate their sound advice and support over the YEARS that we have known each other
Bob wrote to me personally recently –asking what I thought / was my “take” on the MAOA …

I informed Bob that I thought it was “ a bunch of like minded Murphy builders – who wanted to ensure that no matter what happened to M.A.M. OR the Builders list – that they would always “be there” to help out ALL builders and owners – no matter what happened - THAT’S IT - plain and simple

( Ron DID tell me – that he & Mike “had issues” re the running of the Builders site – and that is why THEY parted ….. so it didn’t seem to be “that big an issue” - to me …………….. and I thought it was "water under the bridge stuff" - perhaps, this is not the case … and if so - I’m sorry that this is still an issue between them )

But I didn’t cause it, I wasn’t aware of it ( previously ) – and I would REALLY prefer that it wasn’t “an issue” ….. I’m here – because I want to HELP all / every like minded builder and / or owner – NO politics involved !

Those of you out there who know me – know that I am MORE than willing to help out “wherever I can” - and THAT is why I’m a part of the MAOA – to help !

Jerry – your comments re “copyright and legal concerns” are so far left of field it’s bewildering – for my part at least - to understand what your intent really is …. ?!?
I know of NOTHING about copyright an legal concerns – it doesn’t interest me and I don’t think it would “interest” anybody else for that matter ….

Are we not “here to help each other” … so WHO gives a toss about “copyright and legal concerns” …. ?!?!?
I certainly DON’T …. And ANYBODY can use any advice I give freely and without fear of retribution !

I freely agree with you on one think though …

For MY two cents worth – I’m HERE to help and support Mike Davis and Bob Patterson as well !

But … and that is a friendly “but” ….. IF anything were to go south on the Builders site – if it were to falter / not work properly / cease to exist - for whatever reason – be it Mike’s departure, Bob being snowed under with other interests / concerns / technical problems / crashed websites ( hell – I don’t know about internet stuff ) – I’m also here to help make sure that you, me and a bunch of other people STILL HAVE a support system to HELP each other out ….. with NO politics involved …..

Rick “Biggus” Harper
in Oz
Rebel kits 541 & 432

[Borg]

Here is a quote that is fitting in this situation,

"Politics inhibits productivity!"

Are we going to gab by the water cooler like a bunch of women or are we going to build our airplanes?

Lastly, Thank you Mike for all the years of service!

[tjhickey]

March 4, 2014
There has been a lot written about the construction of a Murphy Aircraft Owner’s Association web forum in the last several days, some a little harsh, and some less so. I am a member of the steering committee and I want to take a moment to respond to some of the postings directly. I have been involved in most all discussions from day one, except for that week I spent in California defrosting my toes, and I want to tell people what, how, and why I chose to be involved.
To me it seemed that there was a perfect storm of events that came together all at one time. The announcement that Murphy Aircraft is for sale, the announcement from Mike Davis that he was no longer going to be a Murphy builder and would be transferring the current builders forum to Bob Patterson, and noting that there have been some concern that it might be quite difficult to keep the current system running successfully all seemed to come together at once.
I value the web forum. It has been a great help to me as I work my way through the difficulty of building my Rebel. I think losing the opportunity to exchange questions and ideas with others would hurt many, many builders.
As it seems to be, the announcement that Murphy Aircraft is for sale came as no surprise to some members. I gather that the company has been seeking a buyer several times in the past; it is just that I didn’t know about it. Now it is public knowledge. I sense that it is quite likely that if it sells, it will be to an off-shore firm. Should that happen, it is a whole new ball game, and we builders will really need to support one another.
The current builder’s forum is mostly a one man show. I say that not to minimize what has been done to date, just to point out that we are dependent on one, or now with Bob P involved, maybe two people. To me that is a risky situation. Life is often full of events that lead us away from where we would like to be. I much rather see the web operation under the guidance of a group of individuals, such as a board of directors of a MAOA.
As discussions went forward as to how to introduce the MAOA and forum, several subjects rose to the surface quite quickly. One was a universal desire to do our best to not upset anyone. We have not been 100% successful with that. Another concern was that we not divide the community. There are few enough of us as it is. Time will tell how that works out. A third element was that the web forum be owned and governed by the community of builders.
The alternative to forming up a MAOA was to do nothing and to hope that everything works out on its own. I found that to be the least desirable alternative.
I want everyone to know that all that has happened, and all that I have seen and been involved with, has been done with nothing but a sincere desire to make things better and more certain for the long term. If you would take a few minutes and go read the FAQ’s on the Owners forum, you will see that the stated goal is to form a MAOA, and to turn over all operations of a forum to the governing group therein.
The hard question is how do we get there? Not having a crystal ball, all I can say is that we just have to work at it. It has been suggested that there might have been a different, better approach to get where we want to be. That may be true. But that was then, and we are now here.
I want to address some comments directly. I think it is widely known that at some point in the past Ron and Mike had significant disagreements about what is the best way to operate a forum for builders. I have heard Ron’s view, and I have read what Mike has posted. What really happened? I don’t know. I wasn’t there.
I do know that I have never heard Ron say even one derogatory word about Mike, or his efforts in the past. As I read it, there is a serious philosophical difference about how a builder’s forum is operated. Ron’s position that a MAOA forum be community owned makes good sense to me.
Mike B suggests that we take the best of both worlds and combine them into one. I agree with him. That may be difficult to do, but with luck and effort, we may end up there.
I was asked by a friend on the list if it was true that any information posted on the Owner’s list would be copyrighted, and thus unavailable for anyone to use. This is absolutely not true. The information on the Owner’s site is open to anyone.
I had a conversation with another builder today, and I told him that I didn’t sleep very well last night because of some of the things that have been said about the Owner’s forum. I was, and am, very disappointed that some have chosen to view a new MAOA as some form of “contest” where the goal is to “win” members and outpoint the Builders site. I am truly sorry that some see it in that light.
So to wrap it up, I want all the builders to know that I have no axe to grind with anyone, and have only been involved with the steering committee because I know that the intentions and goals of those involved are constructive, honorable, and sincere. The fact that some may not be 100% on board with a community owned forum concept disappoints and concerns me.
One more point: Some of the questions I have been asked seem to be based on rumor and misunderstanding. If you have questions about anything, please ask someone for clarification. We need all the help we can get to make the MAOA work. Don’t let rumors fester.
Respectfully,

Tim Hickey.

[Walter Klatt]

March 4, 2014

I was asked by a friend on the list if it was true that any information posted on the Owner’s list would be copyrighted, and thus unavailable for anyone to use. This is absolutely not true. The information on the Owner’s site is open to anyone.

Tim Hickey.

This copyright question has me wondering a bit. I was originally under the impression that the content on this site (Murphy Builders by Mike) was not copyrighted and the member posts, docs, pics, youtubes, etc, were public domain, and not owned by Mike Davis. I don't see any copyright footnotes when I access the site through the forum link or on the email notifications. But if I access it from the home page, there are are copyright footnotes.

So what does this mean? Is just the web site construction and code copyrighted, or are also the member posts and docs copyrighted? Perhaps Mike could clarify this for us.

I am not sure either where all this will end up. I was actually hoping that Ron, Garry, BobP and Mike (or at least until he is fully retired) would work together to come up with a single site that would best serve our community. Maybe that can still happen. There are aspects of both sites that I like, and would be nice if they could be preserved along with some improvements. And I personally don't care whether it is run by a single person or a committee. However, this copyright question might be a concern for me with the Builders site. Depending on what Mike says, I might think twice about posting here if my posts are indeed copyrighted by the owner.

In the end, I just hope this doesn't divide our community. I have learned a lot about my plane here, and try to give back when I can. And have made some good friends here, and enjoy sharing our common interests with building and flying the Murphy airplanes.

[irishfield]

Pictures are copyright the second you click the shutter on your camera and remain so, requiring your permission to be reused no matter where you chose to post them. Same with the written word.

Now if somewhere, in accepting your membership to a forum, in the fine print (that most never read) there is a waiver that you are surrendering copyright to the website / forum owner by posting there, than that's another story and something I have no interest in determining at my end. You guys can play with this till the cows come home, I have more important things to do right now.

[mikefairbanks]

I'll put this as simply as I can.

I do not claim any copyright to the content on this website that was posted there by anyone other than myself. The fact that I left the ability for all of you to delete or edit your own posts demonstrates that I leave that ownership to the original poster. And as for the content that I have added myself, I have no problem with anybody reusing that elsewhere. The only thing I would claim copyright to on this site would be to the purpose of protecting personal information. I will not be sharing passwords and email addresses. Hopefully that is acceptable.

The copyright on the website is there for the presentation and structure that went into building the site... not for the information that the members posted.

I put my foot down and stated that this was my site when I was told I could continue to run the site as directed by comittee, but I have always strived to make it the member's website in practice.

I approached Bob about taking over the site because I honesty feel he has more interest in its continuation and success than anyone else I can think of.

[Walter Klatt]

Thanks Mike. That does indeed clarify it for myself.

And thanks also, Mike, for all the work and effort you have put into this site for all our benefit. I may have at times had complaints about how the site worked, but it does not take away my appreciation for what it does give us, with the ability to get help and share our own experiences. And all the best in your future endeavours with building and flying,... even if it isn't a Murphy. Haven't been to Alaska (yet), but I know it is beautiful up there. :thumbup:

[mikefairbanks]

I just had a nice conversation with Gerry on the phone. Bottom line, the MAOA and I want the same thing in the end... a functional resource of good information sharing for our builders.

I don't know what path this website will take as time goes on... as you know, I am looking to step back, but will not just do so without ensuring everything on this site has a new home. That will either be because someone like Bob has taken this site over, converted it to a new format, or simply imported all the data into a new site. I can't say at this point if that will mean incorporation into the MAOA site, but I would not stand in the way should others decide to take it in that direction.

After talking to Garry, I do not feel that the steering committee is conducting a hostile takeover, despite hard feelings raised by or among certain individuals. And I hope the community as a whole does not allow this to cause any rifts among us.

When it's all over, no matter where the information on this site ends up, I would hope that hope folks don't ask to have their posts deleted from the body of information. The value of the discussions over the years relys on the continuity being maintained.

So... no need to take sides, we'll get it all worked out eventually.