Invitation

[Garry]

Invitation to all Murphy Aircraft Airplane and Kit Owners

Most members of the Murphy Aircraft community are aware that Mike Davis recently declared his intention to step down from his long time commitment to manage the website which has tied the community together for many years. A group of interested owners have jointly proposed a new site with enhanced functionality to serve the community. This group, the steering committee, has agreed that any new site should be owned by the community and be dedicated to serving and uniting that community in the common interest of all involved. The original owner of the new service has already vested ownership of the new site in the steering committee. An organization to be called the Murphy Aircraft Owners Association (MAOA), will succeed the steering committee in a democratic fashion and ownership of the website will again be transferred to that new organization at that time.

The enhanced functionality of the new website (Owners) includes a traditional mailing list that is connected to and synchronized with a forum. Email sent to the mailing list will also appear on the forum. Topics started on the forum will also appear on the mailing list. People using either the mailing list or forum may reply to posts coming from either source. Those who prefer a mailing list format can use that method, while users who prefer to use a forum can use that, while participating in the same discussion. Users are not limited to using one or the other. They can use the mailing list or forum interfaces whenever they like – and all of this operates in near real time.The operation and advantages of this are further explained on the new site. So far, everyone who has experienced this bi-directionally synchronized mailing list and forum system has been very enthusiastic about it. We hope you will be too. Although the development focus to date has been on improved communications, many other new features are also available.

Our Offer to the Community – The link below will take you to the website where you will have an opportunity to see and try out these features for yourself and make your own judgement about how this will affect the community. We believe what is offered is very positive, and you'll have an opportunity to agree or disagree in a short survey on that same website, and add comments about what you like or don't like.

In addition to many technical reasons behind the decision to offer this service to the community, there are others. If the current site (Builders) could do traditional mailing list integration, if it was open to read access by all, and if the only other goal was to maintain the proprietary status quo, our project wouldn't need to exist. However, we believe a new service built on a new, solid foundation will also better facilitate more new and innovative services to come. We also believe that having access to both Owners and Builders will enhance the strength of our community, engendering growth and stimulating new ideas. Our proposal will achieve and ensure several things that are fundamental to our community's common interests:

1) It achieves the simplified communication advantages of traditional mailing list integration.
2) A community owned system can ensure the public has open access to read as much information as possible, including current list/forum discussions, without registration, which is necessary to encourage everyone, especially newcomers, to experience the friendly and responsive owner/builder support that's available and, with registration, participate themselves.
3) Ownership by a community organization can provide an umbrella structure for management and support of these and other community services, including inevitable future transitions from one webmaster to another, without disruption.
4) More than ever before, it's time for owners and builders to have an independent community organization dedicated to serving their interests.

Do these new features and our proposal provide what the community wants and expects from community owned services? We humbly request a few minutes of your time to check it out and let us know what you think.


Rick Harper
Tim Hickey
Ron Shannon
Garry Wright

http://murphyowners.org

[bobp]

Hi all !
Just a quick note to clarify the status of THIS site (MurphyBuilders.net).

As already announced, Mike is stepping back, not away, and is passing the admin to me.
I have a LOT occupying my time right now, with generating sales for Murphy kits, and
assisting with the sale of the company, as well as my other businesses.
All this is slowing my learning curve of taking on the site, but I WILL be
keeping it running, with lots of help from Mike, and have plans for updates to add features
that are desirable for you .... It just might take a few months - oh, yes,
and there's a Builders Meeting to host on March 9th, and Sun 'n Fun is coming ...
Once things settle a bit, I'll have more time to work on it.

In any case - THIS SITE IS NOT GOING AWAY !! It will continue to provide a
forum for you, in the same spirit it has always has, for as long as you find it useful !

[Walter Klatt]

Haven't had time for a good look at the MAOA site yet, but I know the folks behind it, and am sure it will be a good complement, at the least. And nice to see an alternative if something goes wrong with this site. My biggest beef here has been the delayed email postings, which is not good for a builder or anyone looking for a quick answer to something. I understand the new site has near real time bi-directional email capabilities so should be much better in that respect.

[Ray Mason]

The Murphybuilder.net has a huge amount of info that unless can be transferred it is not worth fragmenting this wealth of info. Hopefully Bob can get some of the posting problems worked out.

[Elite773]

This site needs significant upgrades and someone who is willing to do that.

Bob.

[Francesco Simioni]

I support the effort of Bob P. In keeping the mailing list that has been a source of help in clearing doubts on building matters that very often are generated by the fact that the Manual some time is not so clear , especially to someone whom english is not his mother language ... Pictures are much more clear than a full page of description , and plenty of them are available on this forum . So dear Bob , again my thanks for your wise decision .

Francesco
Rebel 562R ( nearing forward cabin completion)

[bobp]

[quote="Elite773"]This site needs significant upgrades and someone who is willing to do that.

Bob.[/quote]

... Mike has always worked to make the site more useful, and I will certainly try
to do the same. I've added a forum up top for you to post any specific things
we can change to make the site more useful. Please bear in mind this is a
volunteer, non-profit operation - it might take some time ... :-)

We will look into every suggestion -
Some things are relatively easy and can be done quickly ...
Flying silver ponies might take a bit longer ;-)

There are always constant issues being dealt with behind the
scenes that you don't see - Mike has put in MANY hours, just to
get the board to its present state and keep it running !
He is still doing that.

[Linlei]

With All Due Respect,

My big concern is the fragmentation of the knowledge base that has accumulated over the years and continues to grow.

Although some may argue that we live in a free part of the world, there is no impediment to starting
any number of "Murphy Sites". What if down the road I am not happy with either this builders site
or MAOA, and decide to start my own "Mike's Murphy Association"? This would cause a further dilution
of information.

I can appreciate what the folks behind MAOA are doing and I congratulate them on a professional job.
I also know there are issues with website.

This being said, the tendency will be for each of us to choose sides,
not because of partisanship, but because it is less convenient to go to two sites to get the information we require.
Additionally, it's a PITA to to post the same message or have the same conversation on two (or more) sites at the same time. As a result
we will only get part of the conversation.

I have been following this site for a few years and have a great admiration for all of those who take the time to contribute
their opinion, knowledge and genius. My hat is off to Mike Davis as well.

My suggestion is this. Rather than jump back and forth between parallel universes we take the best of both worlds and combine them in to one.

Mike B.

[Elite773]

I no way did I mean to criticize Mike Davis on the site. I do appreciate the work he has done and have even donated a small amount. There are healthy and operating sites like Superclub.org that charge an annual fee. The point is that it should not all fall on one or two volunteers and then maybe someone could have spent more time building a Moose.

Bob
773E

[Rebel541]

I no way did I mean to criticize Mike Davis on the site. I do appreciate the work he has done and have even donated a small amount. There are healthy and operating sites like Superclub.org that charge an annual fee. The point is that it should not all fall on one or two volunteers and then maybe someone could have spent more time building a Moose.

Bob
773E

G'day Bob !

I agree - Mike has done a FABULOUS and sterling service to ALL us Murphy people over MANY years - and I REALLY appreciate all the damn hard work he's done for myself - and for all the others too !

I also used to wonder "how the hell he was finding time to BUILD his Moose project" - as he never seemed to be away from the site ?!?!?
( having done "more than my fair share" of volunteer work over the years - I KNOW how that feels BTW )

My favourite saying ( and one I told to Paul Poberezny when he was IN Oz & doing a trip around Sydney Harbour while I was a Captain / Engineer with Sydney Ferries ) is
"Working hard as a volunteer for this mob ( I was on the National Council of the SAAA - Australia's version of the EAA ..... hence WHY Paul was doing trips with me whilst he was there ) - is like pissing yourself in a dark suit ................. It gives YOU a warm feeling - but nobody else seems to notice"

Mike - AND Bob ( P ) AND Wayne have been helpful beyond description during our efforts to build Rebel 541 from day one - and I will always be grateful for all their advice and help !

My fears came about once I heard that M.A.M. was up for sale - and that Mike was calling it quits ....... ( I have another Rebel ( #432 ) under construction at this point in time too BTW ) .... and I was approached by a few other builders who had like minded fears - and they asked me to help out / to assist wherever I could - with the setting up of - what I saw - as a sort of "failsafe" / backup site - the MAOA .... and I figured - why not ..... there is no such thing as "too much help" - especially in an environment where you are building a PLANE !!! :thumbup:

I'd LOVE to see the two sites "working together" ..... and will happily be a part of making that happen .......
But - I am NO kompewta wizz - so my help is largely restricted to emails and phone calls - wherever I can help

I have no interest - other than to help as many people realise their dream - as I can !

So - lets all just HELP each other - and leave politics to people who get off on such stuff - that's NOT what I want to be any part of !!!

Biggus in Orstraylay
kits 541 & 432

[Garry]

The MAOA Steering Committee has put a brief statement regarding common concerns about community archives on the MAOA web site, which you may read at http://murphyowners.org/node/172

[Jerry Folkerts]

I normally stay on the sidelines for things like this, but I find this whole situation simply wrong. Now the truth comes out. Mike et al have worked tirelessly to host this site, and have generated years of content. I find it very helpful to be able to search the archives and photos to locate information on whatever issue I am facing. There is nothing wrong with the Murphy Builders Site. If you recall, the founders of the recently generated Murphy Owners site had a dispute with Mike when he upgraded this site several years ago. Since then, they dropped off the list. Now, they have used the opportunity of the transfer of the Murphy Builders Server from Mike to Bob as an opportunity to build their own, and now they are moving to transfer the content effectively rendering this site ineffective. This is simply wrong.

I urge the owners of this site to use whatever legal means available to protect the copyright of this material from being transferred. I know one individual decided not to participate in the new site because of copyright/legal concerns. That was the "committees" intent all along.

Again, this whole situation is simply wrong and is the result of a lingering dispute between the organizer of the new site and Mike Davis. Members of this site should not support such behavior.

My two cents and I will continue to support Mike Davis and Bob Patterson.

Jerry Folkerts

[mikefairbanks]

Thanks for the vote of support Jerry, but I honestly feel that what is important in the end is that the users/builders end up with a website that is of use to them. I am aware of the concerns with this current site... I looked long and hard for the best solution I could find, and even setup a test site specifically at the recommendation and request of Ron Shannon and gave him full administrative access to it to help build the site he thought we should have. 6 months later he hadn't done a thing with it... so I did the best I could with the tools I had found. And it was Ron who first told me to look at Drupal. So if Ron had/has a problem with the site I ended up with... screw him. I was a United States Marine for 14 years, I'm not easily intimidated, and I don't buy into PC crap. I'm easy to get along with most of the time and I honestly try to help people whenever I can. I volunteer a tremendous amount of my time... and I'm not talking about this site. But I'm not going to sugar coat that. That may anger a few of you, but I can honestly write it and say it today without any anger myself.

I am done being mad over what happened in the past but the dispute sprang directly from being told that either I submit to the will of a steering committee such as that being formed now, or I would not gain their support. I chose to risk their wrath rather than be their whipping boy and continue to do all the work for free. Looking back at it, I was wrong to ask for a one time $5 fee to setup your accounts, but honestly, if my wife had any idea how much money running the list/site has cost me over the years, I'd be in the dog house for a while. Some of you have felt that my efforts over the years have been worth a donation, and I appreciate that... but it has never come close to covering the costs until I made the move to this new site. The VPS hosting service it was on for the first year cost $340, and I received $370 in donations... I then built a new dedicated server in preparation to transfer the site to someone else at a cost of $430, and during the second year I received $95 in donations. The only time I ever received more in donations than that $370 was back in 2000 when I had serious server hardware problems and received a little over $600. All told I've received less than $3000 in donations in 17 years. Before moving to the new format it was costing more than that a year to keep the old Wildcat! system going.

Now, I didn't share any of this to ask for donations... honestly, the costs of operation now on the new server is probably less than $10 a month! I simply bring this up to explain why I asked for the one time $5 application fee. I collected $75 in $5 fees, and offered to refund all of them... nobody asked for a refund, even Ron.

I suppose that asking for $5 could have been seen as restricting access to the archives. But other than those few short days I have never restricted access from any member... and all it takes to become a member is to ask. And why do you have to ask? 17 years without SPAM is why! If you open the site, there will be SPAM, period. Even the new association website is manually confirming account applications. I took it one step further, because I run a number of other websites that allow open application with manual review... and I literally get 100 bogus applications for every valid one. I don't think it's too much to ask you to send me an email to gain full access to the site. If you do, then I guess I'm guilty of not caring what you think.

One more item and I'll get off my soap box and wish you all including this new association the best in the future. Nobody, not one person has asked me for a copy of the message database on this site. It says right on their website in the announcement above that they have... but I just want it to be public knowledge that nobody has asked me. Although I have been made aware that they have used member accounts to scavange all of the messages through the web interface.

Over the years I bet there have been 1000 builders who have been members of the sites I have run... and I can still count on my fingers those members who have been a pain in my ass. I've made a lot of friends over the years here, and you are the only thing I will miss once I'm gone... which will not happen until Bob tells me he's ready for that.

If the new association website ends up offering a better platform than I have been able to, then I am glad they have made the effort. All that matters is that my friends have a tool that helps them build the best, and safest airplane possible.

[RickMuller2004]

Well, this will be a lively discussion I am sure. I will say that I have found this new site a bit puzzling... Why? I never saw a thing wrong with what we have today. I've rarely seen an email that was way "out of line." Occasionally someone will get a bit wound up, but it's not a regular event. I understood that Mike you would be moving on and let me take the chance to say thank you for your efforts. In the end I don't think we need a committee to decide anything. It's just common sense to be polite, if someone says something that doesn't make sense, you/we may be miss-understanding, but we're all adults and being asked to clarify isn't a sin! I don't know what all the issues are with transitioning this site to Bob, but its not uncommon for a supplier to sponsor/support a bb site. I kind of think Mike deserves at the least a "Thank You" from Darrell Murphy as this site has done a lot to further his cause and the cause of each of us. So I don't have issue with Bob taking over and I don't see a need for a 3rd party, especially run by a committee. I'm not suggesting "this" committee is bad, but I must say that their posting has left me with questions and at the very least opened the door for speculation. In the end we need one (1) site that serves the best interests of the builders. If there is a political game underway here, I may be joining Jerry!

[Geoff van Asch]

Living down the bottom end of the Pacific in NZ,
where there is only +/- 15 rebel kits in the country,
of those - 8 Rebels and 1 Elite flying - Mikes site is invaluable for me as a builder.
So to Mike, for what you have done THANK YOU,
and on behalf of all the other kiwis that have used the site. THANK YOU.
For all you out there that have contributed I also say THANK YOU.
Without you - this site or any other would not work.

To that end we all need ONE site ONLY
From where I sit this site isn’t broken, so why move?
If server platform technology can be better – back this site and sort it.
but as builders we need one site only and don’t need the IP this site has spread everywhere.
I like Jerry normally stay on the side-lines, but in this case needed to say something.
Finally Mike and Bob P THANK YOU AGAIN. Keep up the good work

Geoff van Asch
Rebel 798
(getting very close to flying........)