The Murphy Builders Site

Yeah, the tail seems to be the worry point for most. Walter has had great
flying with his...no problems. Darrell said not to, I believe. I don't
know anyone else with an 0360 in a rebel, do you? The tail comment being
made, the elite has a VERY large emmpenage, almost comical! Especially
since the rest of the plane is physically identical in size to the rebel. I
wonder if tail strength is why. I have heard from an elite builder friend
that he was told by other elite owners that their controls were very
sensitive-almost irritatingly so. The result of that huge tail?

Bob P told me the 180 hp was overkill even with amphibs and he should know,
I guess. Although when I told him my amphib kit was missing the tires he
told me that MAM hadn't been shipping their float kits with tires for
several years and I know that's incorrect.

Just another chapter in the always interesting, never seeming to end build
journey! And by the way, you are WAY overdue for a site update. :) Take
care, Craig




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I have well over 100 hours now in my 360, and no problems with the tail or
anything else. One of the unexpected benefits with this new engine is
increased fuel economy. With side by side trip comparisons this summer, it
is better than 1 gph saving. However, I think most of that can be attributed
to my EI.

I know there are several other 360s in Rebels, and haven't heard of anyone
having issues. There is also a 210 hp 6 cyl conti 360 Rebel amphib flying in
Arlington.

And I can tell you that my 360 is not at all overkill for my kind of flying
here in BC, which would be very similar to your Alaska. On amphibs at 5000
feet, it is very, very ordinary.

Walter

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of craig
Sent: August 7, 2009 12:12 AM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: [rebel-builders] RE: 0360?

Yeah, the tail seems to be the worry point for most. Walter has had great
flying with his...no problems. Darrell said not to, I believe. I don't
know anyone else with an 0360 in a rebel, do you? The tail comment being
made, the elite has a VERY large emmpenage, almost comical! Especially
since the rest of the plane is physically identical in size to the rebel. I

wonder if tail strength is why. I have heard from an elite builder friend
that he was told by other elite owners that their controls were very
sensitive-almost irritatingly so. The result of that huge tail?

Bob P told me the 180 hp was overkill even with amphibs and he should know,
I guess. Although when I told him my amphib kit was missing the tires he
told me that MAM hadn't been shipping their float kits with tires for
several years and I know that's incorrect.

Just another chapter in the always interesting, never seeming to end build
journey! And by the way, you are WAY overdue for a site update. :) Take
care, Craig




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I suppose it is obvious that the better fuel economy is not due to the 0360
per se --- rather to ei as you suggest (and maybe a tiny bit the ECI valve
ports?). Walter, you mention knowing of several other 0360 Rebels. Are some
of them with the original (not moved back) firewall? I made all my corner
wraps .025 (none 032), whereas I recall you saying at ARlington your lower
front ones were 032.
-Ben


On 8/7/2009 5:54 AM, walter.klatt@shaw.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

I have well over 100 hours now in my 360, and no problems with the tail or
anything else. One of the unexpected benefits with this new engine is
increased fuel economy. With side by side trip comparisons this summer, it
is better than 1 gph saving. However, I think most of that can be attributed
to my EI.

I know there are several other 360s in Rebels, and haven't heard of anyone
having issues. There is also a 210 hp 6 cyl conti 360 Rebel amphib flying in
Arlington.

And I can tell you that my 360 is not at all overkill for my kind of flying
here in BC, which would be very similar to your Alaska. On amphibs at 5000
feet, it is very, very ordinary.

Walter

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Yes, my lower wraps are 032, and my top ones 025. I did everything I could when building to strengthen my front area when planning my original 320 engine. In hindsight I am glad I did. Don't know of the other 360s frist hand, so can't comment on what they did.

Yes, my engine has several things that probably help with the fuel economy. It has the Superior engine sump which is supposed to provide more even mixture distribution. That also helps with my EI to run LOP without running rough. And yes, perhaps those venturi intakes on the Exp ECI cylinders might help too. At the least they give more hp. And the bigger diameter prop might be more efficient.

So yes, with my extra hp and improved fuel economy, I can have my cake and eat it too. The cost and weight difference between a 320 and 360 is insignificant. In my case because of some changes with my cowl and accessories, my empty weight did not change when I installed the 360.

Walter

----- Original Message -----
From: bransom@dcsol.com
Date: Saturday, August 8, 2009 1:56 pm
Subject: RE: [rebel-builders] Re: 0360?
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com

I suppose it is obvious that the better fuel economy is not due
to the 0360
per se --- rather to ei as you suggest (and maybe a tiny bit the
ECI valve
ports?). Walter, you mention knowing of several other 0360
Rebels. Are some
of them with the original (not moved back) firewall? I
made all my corner
wraps .025 (none 032), whereas I recall you saying at ARlington
your lower
front ones were 032.
-Ben


On 8/7/2009 5:54 AM, walter.klatt@shaw.ca wrote to rebel-builders:

I have well over 100 hours now in my 360, and no problems with

the tail or

anything else. One of the unexpected benefits with this new

engine is

increased fuel economy. With side by side trip comparisons

this summer, it

is better than 1 gph saving. However, I think most of that can

be attributed

to my EI.

I know there are several other 360s in Rebels, and haven't

heard of anyone

having issues. There is also a 210 hp 6 cyl conti 360 Rebel

amphib flying in

Arlington.

And I can tell you that my 360 is not at all overkill for my

kind of flying

here in BC, which would be very similar to your Alaska. On

amphibs at 5000

feet, it is very, very ordinary.

Walter

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Walter
Did you install a V brace? I don't think I can see one in ur picture in the files.

Steve W.



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No, and have not seen a Rebel with one. Some have a window brace down tje middle but I don't have that either.
------Original Message------
From: srwhitenect@dcsol.com
Sender: mike.davis@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
ReplyTo: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Re: 0360?
Sent: Aug 8, 2009 7:41 PM

Walter
Did you install a V brace? I don't think I can see one in ur picture in the files.

Steve W.



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Ive seen a couple of Rebels with the brace on, Si Smith comes to mind. If you
haven't had any deformation with your set up, then I don't have anything to
worry about. Is your firewall cut back?

Steve



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Yes, my firewall is cut back. Lots if rough water landings, and no priblems.
------Original Message------
From: srwhitenect@dcsol.com
Sender: mike.davis@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
ReplyTo: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Re: 0360?
Sent: Aug 8, 2009 8:36 PM

Ive seen a couple of Rebels with the brace on, Si Smith comes to mind. If you
haven't had any deformation with your set up, then I don't have anything to
worry about. Is your firewall cut back?

Steve



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I left mine long but as Wayne says, the three inches can't make that much of
a difference? I hope not anyways. That engine sure likes to bounce around
on the rough water.

Steve



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Perhaps some are installing the V-brace assuming a similar structural issue
that occurs on some Cessnas and Pipers. My recollection is that the V-brace
is used on the Cessnas to keep the windshield from distorting and in an
extreme case, popping out.

I've seen no movement of the windshield on the Elite bouncing around on land
or water. You'd need to have an engineer analyze what problem exists
(probably none), how a V-brace would help and how to locate it so that it
does more good than harm.

Doesn't seem like a V-brace is needed on the Elite/Rebel regardless of
engine.

Eric

-----Original Message-----
From: mike.davis@dcsol.com [mailto:mike.davis@dcsol.com] On Behalf Of
srwhitenect@dcsol.com
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:36 PM
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Re: 0360?

Ive seen a couple of Rebels with the brace on, Si Smith comes to mind. If
you
haven't had any deformation with your set up, then I don't have anything to
worry about. Is your firewall cut back?

Steve



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Yes, with the dyna focal mounts it moves pretty good.
------Original Message------
From: srwhitenect@dcsol.com
Sender: mike.davis@dcsol.com
To: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
ReplyTo: rebel-builders@dcsol.com
Subject: Re: RE: [rebel-builders] Re: 0360?
Sent: Aug 8, 2009 9:29 PM

I left mine long but as Wayne says, the three inches can't make that much of
a difference? I hope not anyways. That engine sure likes to bounce around
on the rough water.

Steve



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